What is going on with Square Enix and the 14 team?

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

The Light was never the villain. It was just a mess in the natural order of the elements and a concept taken straight out from og FFIII. Just like how the Ascians majorly screwed up the 13th shard, with tipping the balance to favor shadow which is what caused the entirety of the shard to be destroyed. Even Urianger explained this when we meet up with him in Ill Mheg in ShB. The story was never developing the idea that the Light was actually "evil".

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I've noticed ALOT of people got that idea and I could see why if certain plot points were being ignored or missed. If Hyd wanted the world flooded as an evil act why have/allow Minifillia to stop it? It was already know the WoLs in the 1st were being manipulated to eradicate all darkness but it wasn't by Hyd

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

Though being fair Zodiark would eventually need everyone to be sacrificed and thus it'd be pointless anyways. I may not like what Hyd did but I can for sure say she at least gave us a chance for life to continue and florish. I never felt the game painted her as perfect oe egotistical. She herself says she knows she caused alot of pain and suffering and she doesn't take joy in that fact. She also doesn't offer pushback if you question her on the boat. Idk...I think they did well with her (and I REALLY did not like her at 1st)

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There’s nothing in the game that supports everyone would eventually need to be sacrificed. He shielded the planet for 12k+ years without additional sacrifices. The problem is she didn’t give her own people a chance, even when she had the knowledge of would eventually happen to them.. She gave up on them and ruined their lives and then kept all that knowledge a secret. She herself says what she did wasn’t good, but the problem is the overall story doesn’t paint her as such. We get a minion praising her as a hero, the scions are all head over heels for her, and the latest codex entry is unbelievably biased towards her it’s like a bad joke.She goes on and on about making the impossible possible, never losing hope, yet she lost hope in her own people.

The latest LL even confirmed she knew that Emet and the other unsundered escaped, she knew what they would do in the future and she let it happen.

Yeah, I... never understood where we got this idea that additional sacrifices to Zodiark was needed when the writers themselves went out of their way to not reflect him as some sort of Blood God. Yet I hear that brought up over and over. Did I miss something?

Though again, this is about gameplay and we're devolving into lore--

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Originally Posted by BrokentoothMarch

Yeah, I... never understood where we got this idea that additional sacrifices to Zodiark was needed when the writers themselves went out of their way to not reflect him as some sort of Blood God. Yet I hear that brought up over and over. Did I miss something?

Though again, this is about gameplay and we're devolving into lore--

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True that. I would like at least *one* of my threads not to devolve into lore arguing xD i try very hard to abstain from that.

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Originally Posted by BrokentoothMarch

Yeah, I... never understood where we got this idea that additional sacrifices to Zodiark was needed when the writers themselves went out of their way to not reflect him as some sort of Blood God. Yet I hear that brought up over and over. Did I miss something?

Though again, this is about gameplay and we're devolving into lore--

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I've heard on several occasions that they were to be doing the third sacrifice.

One sacrifice to bring forth Zodiark
Second sacrifice is to restore 'life' to the land
The third sacrifice is to bring back those who sacrificed themselves to bring forth Zodiark.

Doesn't really matter ultimately if Zodiark himself is a bloodgod or not if the ancients fail to let go of the possibility of a paradise. I'm also pretty sure this third sacrifice was depicted in Endwalker during a flashback quest.

My guess is Hydaelyn, much like the FFXIV community with the developers saw it as a telling of things to come or a possibility of an established trend to come. (E.g. are you just going to keep sacrificing people to Zodiark in order to perpetually bring people back from the sacrifice - Bit of a catch-22 that).

I can say there are a lot of things wrong with this Lottery. First I noticed that only 9 people and less were getting Large Houses, then the second thing I noticed was when the FC was founded. A lot of them that are getting these houses are from FC's from 2010 to 2017. The last thing I noticed was there is 1 FC that only has 2 people in the LARGE HOUSE and how did they get into the Lottery with just 2 people??

This is why you never touch time travel. It fucks everything up because so few people can write it well. And when you add a team making side quests and all that having to work together on it you get this mess.

Was Elpis fun? Absolutely. And had everyone forgotten my visit it would have been fine.

But THE GLORIOUS AND MOST MAGNIFICENT HYDAELYN, LONG MAY SHE REIGN! had to be shown tp be all righteous and awesome and cool. And she had this sword, that did like a bajillion damage, and it could sunder the star! even though she didn't have nearly as much sacrificed to her as Zodiark she was just so awesome and cool she could still beat him!

Sorry. I just really really hate how Hydaelyn was written.

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Originally Posted by BrokentoothMarch

I actually started liking her and that began to decay quickly...

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That is a good point. One of the reasons why Shadowbringers is my favourites expansion was how it played with a lot of the tropes that had been in the game/FF in interesting ways. From the more overt examples, such as Light being portrayed as the negative element and the revelations about Hydaelyn/Zodiak, to things like the Scions (Y'shtola taking up black magic over white, Thancred going from being a sneak rogue to upfront protector) and the notion of Hope being used as a weapon against us. EW did fall back on more traditional tropes for sure, though I did feel it still played around with somethings and gave us some nice twists. Then again, I openly admit I am far to optimistic about storytelling aspects then a lot of people!

I do agree about how the WoL is portrayed. They have gotten better at giving us the chance to craft their personality a bit more outside of stoic nodding, but ultimately we can do little but follow the lines we are given. Its a shame as I always hoped they would eventually let us make more meaningful choices in the story.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

I also was never much of a character hater, I dont get too attached to a particular character and try not to see the "black" and "white" in the things they do...

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Yeah, SB hads its flaws for sure but there is so many good things that go overlooked I feel. The characters in particular are wonderfully explored. I simp for Aymeric, but Hien really steals the show. Fordola and Yotsuyu where really interestingly written villians too. I agree about Lyse too. Travelling around the Far East with her and Alisea was a great joy and I liked seeing her step up to the challenges.

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

Though being fair Zodiark would eventually need everyone to be sacrificed and thus it'd be pointless anyways. I may not like what Hyd did but I can for sure say she at least gave us a chance for life to continue and florish. I never felt the game painted her as perfect oe egotistical. She herself says she knows she caused alot of pain and suffering and she doesn't take joy in that fact. She also doesn't offer pushback if you question her on the boat. Idk...I think they did well with her (and I REALLY did not like her at 1st)

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I more or less completely agree. I went into Endwalker sure she would be the ‘big bad’ and did flick her the finger on the boat, but the expansion completely changed how I view her. Hydalyn herself understands how bad what she did was, but in their eyes there really was no other choice. I felt the cut scene with her after we leave Elpis really showed that well, and I adore her ‘… And amongst deepest despair, light everlasting’ quote. That was when she became my favorite.

I can see why people disliked her actions, and I kinda wish more NPCs took issue with it too.

Anyway, sorry for derailing the thread with lore!

Wow another thread consumed by the same tired arguments. Surely this time will be different.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

I've heard on several occasions that they were to be doing the third sacrifice.

One sacrifice to bring forth Zodiark
Second sacrifice is to restore 'life' to the land
The third sacrifice is to bring back those who sacrificed themselves to bring forth Zodiark.

Doesn't really matter ultimately if Zodiark himself is a bloodgod or not if the ancients fail to let go of the possibility of a paradise. I'm also pretty sure this third sacrifice was depicted in Endwalker during a flashback quest.

My guess is Hydaelyn, much like the FFXIV community with the developers saw it as a telling of things to come or a possibility of an established trend to come. (E.g. are you just going to keep sacrificing people to Zodiark in order to perpetually bring people back from the sacrifice - Bit of a catch-22 that).

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There was to be a 3rd sacrifice yes, but that was it. Hythlodaeus himself tells us after they would return to their duties as stewards of the star. The cutscene in Endwalker is actually Venat’s pov which is very inconsistent with all the lore we have been told. It also doesn’t seem to mention her followers of whom yoshi confirmed she completely consumed the souls of and basically destroyed them. Her whole overall idea isn’t even so much that she has a problem with the sacrifices, so much so that she doesn’t believe her people have the power to combat meteion. This is shown in the anamnesis cutscene where she even says she doesn’t see Zodiark as a long lasting solution.

I think overall, my problem with her, is that she had the knowledge to potentially avert the calamity but she instead tries to paint the ancients as wrong for simply…being human. She then lies,manipulates, and keeps all that knowledge hidden and is praised as a hero? It just doesn’t sit well with me. Even worse is Elidibus and Zodiark, two of the people who saved both us and the entire world and even made venat’s plan succeed in the first place, are given hardly any praise whatsoever.

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Originally Posted by EaraGrace

Wow another thread consumed by the same tired arguments. Surely this time will be different.

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I dont think its at least that big of a derailment in this thread, since one of the things i brought up is peoples opinions on the story. No reason to be snarky though.