Dear SquareEnix/Natsuko Ishikawa - About Zenos in Endwalker *MAJOR MSQ SPOILERS*!

Zenos should absolutely not come back. His pathetic thing if we can even call it a character arc is over. In all honesty the guy should have stayed dead in Stormblood because in Shadowbringers he did nothing but stay on his throne, kill his father Varis, and eventually met Fandaniel to reenact the Final Days. Everything in Endwalker has been Fandaniel's idea and plan. Zenos did nothing but watch lazily on his throne in the Tower of Babil doing absolutely nothing but think of the battle with him and WoL. Zenos does not even have a character arc/motivation. He is actually the worst character in this very game and certainly one of the worst villains Final Fantasy has ever had. Can you tell me anything memorable he has done in Endwalker? He did nothing actually. Our WoL and his body got swapped and still we emerged victorious and also shoulder tackled him to the ground and even smacked his voidsent avatar. You know what Zenos did? Nothing! Anima was a pathetic plot point... should have saved it for a trial with REAL mechanics and FFX music at that. What a letdown. Zenos did nothing but say hahaha give me all your rage. He did not even have the guts to show how monstrous he was by hurting the Scions. And then guess what? He pisses off until the end of the story where he uses the Scions in hopes of getting to you and after a long and tired battle with the Endsinger AKA the actual main threat... we are treated to a battle with Zenos which in my opinion happened because they had no idea for Zenos's character arc so they had to put it somewhere where it makes sense.

While the ending is hype because Zenos is dead and we got to punch his face out, I'm still not happy with the way Zenos came back. I think it was dumb and unearned even if we can make a argument that he is the perfect ally at the end of days against the Harbinger of despair since he has nothing but.... however, the only memorable thing Zenos has done in the last few years is insult the Endsinger by telling you "how is it still alive"

I dont know why so many people enjoy Zenos... I genuinely do not but please do not bring him back. His pathetic excuse of an arc is over and we won and he died at the edge of the universe and his body probably burnt/dissolved. DO NOT BRING HIM BACK. He is pathetic and did nothing of note the whole story. Do not make him a Scion and redeem him. Make way for more exciting adventures please.

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Originally Posted by Elysidelphi

Thank you.

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I made a discord for discussing Zenos theories! we already have a few people, If you'd like to join let me know :) or if anyone here wants to.

Tired of the negativity from here

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Originally Posted by nighttimebunny

I made a discord for discussing Zenos theories! we already have a few people, If you'd like to join let me know :) or if anyone here wants to.

Tired of the negativity from here

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Sure why not.

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Originally Posted by nighttimebunny

I give up on trying to explain my perspective on Zenos to people. They just write him off and don't listen to any side other than their own, usually without any facts and just their own hate of the character. :/ It gets exhausting, and I'm pretty done with it at this point. I'll only respond if someone has something interesting to say.

Anyways, they will be the ones upset when he comes back, his voidsent having taken the blows for him :D

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Yes, I totally get what you mean. But, in opening this thread and talking about Zenos, I got to meet you and other people who like Zenos and want him back, so I'm happy about that. I also found out that the Japanese audiences absolutely love Zenos and even Yoshi-P loves Zenos, so that gives me hope.

God, I hope so much, SO MUCH, that you are right and that his voidsent/avatar took the blows for him! Thank you for giving me that hope.

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Originally Posted by Vuro

Really disappointed by how nasty some of the people in this thread are. We get it, you don't like a character because you're incapable of appreciating his turmoil and how it came to be - you don't have to drop all civility to make this clear. Hardcore Zenos dislikers are some of the most unpleasant people this fandom has to offer, lol.

Anyway, really enjoyed your thoughts OP, and they mirror my own. Especially when people like Gaius and Amon were afforded much more sympathy, I'm truly boggled that Zenos was not approached with more care. I'm not going to get my hopes up that he'll be revisited in any way, due to the nature of that final battle, but man...I sure would be thrilled to pieces if we saw him again in some form.

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Thank you. Excellent point you've made there.

Like I said before in many messages on here, there are many possible hints/clues that Zenos may be back, even in that final battle. His body did not dissipate into aether/something the way Emet-Selch's body did for example. And Yoshi-P loves good mysteries and dropping little hints and clues all along the way, he likes playing the long game so that also makes me hope. Plus the fact that Yoshi-P clearly loves Zenos as a character and the Japanese audiences also love Zenos, plus him being a Reaper, and an Ascian in everything but name, I just hope so much that he will be back. I wish you and more people who like Zenos would also hope alongside me, maybe our hopes will tap into the power of Dynamis and bring him back, haha!

It's not over until we give up hope!

Thank you also for liking Zenos and wanting him back. I'm sure our hope won't be in vain.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

While I am very keen on the idea of Zenos being a wayward ally, I'm fine with his story ending the way it did. He didn't find happiness in anything other than duels to the death that pushed him to the limits of his ability, and given his willingness to do whatever it took to set up those sorts of situations I can't agree leaving him alive would have been a wise course of action. Asking the PC to risk their life every encounter with him seems... more than a tad unreasonable.

(Plus he was pitifully easy to finally beat after the Endsinger. I didn't even come close to going down except when he used his scripted moves.)



Emet-Selch gets a free pass because what he's doing is good from his perspective, while Zenos knows what he's doing wrong but doesn't care.

All the people and civilizations Emet-Selch is responsible for the annihilation of would beg to differ, no doubt, but they're not around to give us a sob story about it.

In regards to Zenos being screwed up, that's heavily implied to be a mess of natural psychopathy, parental neglect (Varis was too busy with his military career to raise Zenos, and his mother died when he was very young), being born into utmost privilege, and his natural talent leaving Zenos with little to nothing to aspire to. Thus he found happiness in the one arena he wasn't guaranteed to succeed in: mortal combat, and even that took finding a worthy opponent to match him before he found happiness in it.

Emet-Selch is responsible for creating the authoritative, militaristic Garlean culture that shaped Zenos to a degree, but he's not wholly responsible for how he turned out.

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Well, I am most definitely not fine with Zenos's ending, and I never will be fine with it, no matter how much time passes, no matter the arguments presented to me otherwise. I know that he deserved better. And Endwalker was all about hope and forgiveness and change, yet not for him? No. I will not accept that, no matter what anyone says.

He didn't find happiness in other things because he was not taught to find happiness in other things. That's something he can still learn.

Emet-Selch gets a free pass because people are hypocrites, no other reason. And I say this as someone who loves and adores Emet-Selch. But I know preferrential treatment when I see it.

As for natural psychopathy, in psychology there is a huge debate of "nature vs. nurture" with people on either side of the debate. It's still unresolved to this day. My own take on it as a psychologist is nurture is stronger than nature. In regards to natural psychopathy, even if the predisposition for natural psychopathy is there naturally, it can be kept in check/controlled/educated by nurture.

In other words, I blame everybody around Zenos as a child for how he turned out to be. We do not even know for sure if he had natural psychopathy to begin with, and even if he did, it could have been kept in check by proper child rearing. Furthermore, it's heavily implied that Zenos was experimented on by Emet-Selch, on top of the childhood neglect and everything else. So yes, Emet-Selch and Varis created a monster by choice, with pleasure, with delight. Varis was not even tempered. And in order to undo all of that, Zenos cannot do that on his own even if he really wants to. He would need help from the outside.

The whole expansion Endwalker was all about hope against deepest and darkest despair, against death itself. It was about forgiveness and friendship and second chances (see Meteion, Emet-Selch, Hythlodaeus, Hermes). Like someone else pointed out before, even the Omicrons, which are robots, are implied that they could change. That they shouldn't be judged (G'raha Tia says this himself), that they could be befriended. These are robots that killed entire stars/planets for the SOLE reason of becoming stronger (more or less like Zenos), and yet there is hope/understanding/compassion/forgiveness for them. But not for Zenos? Really? No way. There is no way I will accept this.

So, please, PLEASE, Square Enix. Please Natsuko Ishikawa. Please Koji Fox. Please Yoshi-P. Bring Zenos back and give him a redemption story and don't kill him again, let him travel with us, let him find other reasons to be happy beyond battles.

Please, please, BRING ZENOS BACK!

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Originally Posted by nighttimebunny

I made a discord for discussing Zenos theories! we already have a few people, If you'd like to join let me know :) or if anyone here wants to.

Tired of the negativity from here

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I would LOVE to join!

How do I join, haha? Or how do I find it?

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Originally Posted by Elysidelphi

His body did not dissipate into aether/something the way Emet-Selch's body did for example.

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Aether dusting is not normal when people die. Most dead people leave behind a corpse, even Zenos' corpse was a plot point in the MSQ and several other stories feature corpses.

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Originally Posted by Kisshu

Aether dusting is not normal when people die. Most dead people leave behind a corpse, even Zenos' corpse was a plot point in the MSQ and several other stories feature corpses.

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True. But he is not a normal human being. He is an Ascian in everything but name, as Krile puts it, so in order to be killed properly, he would need to be killed using white auracite like we did with Emet-Selch, which would then lead to his aether dissipating. Same happened to Elidibus, who, in order to be killed, needed to be trapped in the Crystal Tower using G'raha Tia's magic and control of the Tower. We used no such methods in our duel with Zenos. Plus, on top of being an Ascian, Zenos is also a Reaper which also has different implications. So I don't think we could kill him without using a special method and then having a clear visual of his body and soul going away. The fact that in that last scene he was shown to have stopped breathing is neither here nor there. Doesn't mean he died with 100% certainty. Even back in Stormblood, he killed himself by slitting his own throat and he stopped breathing, yet he came back. So there is no certainty either way in regards to his supposed death. In fact, there are more clues/hints pointing at him surviving than there are clues/facts pointing at him being dead beyond a shadow of a doubt.

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Originally Posted by nighttimebunny

I made a discord for discussing Zenos theories! we already have a few people, If you'd like to join let me know :) or if anyone here wants to.

Tired of the negativity from here

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Would be interested as well in this link (asking for a friend :3)

But besides personally I like Zenos even back in Stormblood.
For me personally not every Baddie needs to have a complicated backstory or complex motives.

For EW he was basically my palette cleanser, the offset to all the happy/power of friendship and bunneh stuff that was going on I guess XD.