Death unto Dawn page up

Indeed! It's a no thanks from me as well.

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Originally Posted by Riastrad

I think it will be Cid with Nero and the Ironworks establishing a true Technocracy. "Freedom through Technology!" and all that.

I mean, some of you folks do want a Garlean restoration, don't you? Giving former war criminals any chance to be the leader of a civilization that has done nothing but upset any semblance of peace for the last 25+ years doesn't seem a smart play, no matter how earnestly they feel about setting wrongs right. Execution or exile are really the only options if the current Alliances are to survive a post apocalyptic scenario and rebuild a better world. We need those brave few that would fix the world to lead the survivors to rebuilding what is lost in the process. Not former tyrants and neophytes.

Besides, Cid and company already took charge of the survivors in the original timeline and due to their ability to create solutions to impossible problems are the only reason anyone can have a change of heart at such a convenient time. A good quote from a not so great show.

“You served him well. When serving was safe.”
— Eddard 'Ned' Stark, Game of Thrones Season 1: Lord Snow

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I don’t think the Alliances have any right to dictate what’s considered wrong considering each of them is corrupt in their own way.

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Originally Posted by Riastrad

I think it will be Cid with Nero and the Ironworks establishing a true Technocracy. "Freedom through Technology!" and all that.

I mean, some of you folks do want a Garlean restoration, don't you? Giving former war criminals any chance to be the leader of a civilization that has done nothing but upset any semblance of peace for the last 25+ years doesn't seem a smart play, no matter how earnestly they feel about setting wrongs right. Execution or exile are really the only options if the current Alliances are to survive a post apocalyptic scenario and rebuild a better world. We need those brave few that would fix the world to lead the survivors to rebuilding what is lost in the process. Not former tyrants and neophytes.

Besides, Cid and company already took charge of the survivors in the original timeline and due to their ability to create solutions to impossible problems are the only reason anyone can have a change of heart at such a convenient time. A good quote from a not so great show.

“You served him well. When serving was safe.”
— Eddard 'Ned' Stark, Game of Thrones Season 1: Lord Snow

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As much as I love Cid, running a country is very different from running a country and if you take Jessie's opinion to heart, he's not even that great at the first one. He's very smart in the field of technology, but we've not really seen him demonstrate a great grasp on political maneuvering, to say nothing of whether the Garlean people will accept him. Right now there's no perfect choice for who to take over running Garlemald once the conflict is over and the dust settles, but we do know that whoever is put in charge will be in charge of dismantling a large empire that has existed for about half a century (forcefully or no). I think the best fit for that would probably be Maxima, but we have no idea how popular he is within the country compared to someone like Gaius who is (or was) very popular, but was also a figure who helped expand the empire into Aldenard. Among other candidates I've seen mentioned: Nerva, I think should go without saying, is a bad choice since he's of the line that helped propagate Garlemald's imperialist expansion and would no doubt attempt to retake as much land as he could once they gather power and Noah is literally trying to make a new empire right now.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

I don’t think the Alliances have any right to dictate what’s considered wrong considering each of them is corrupt in their own way.

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I mean there's no country in existence that ever been ideologically pure and free of corruption, but that's not stopped them from making the terms of surrender before. I doubt that any of the lands subjugated by the empire would care that the Eorzean alliance are free of flaws once they're liberated by whatever terms are put in place after Endwalker.

Did Maxima die off-screen and I forgot about it or are people ignoring the one actual Garlean who's open to reconciliation, we personally know, and already has political clout in the Garleans' eye? After all, even if Dany says the Populares are no more he's obviously missing HIM, and after all that Zenos and Dany have done butchering the people, I'm sure the remnants of Garlemald would be very open to work with the one person who's on their side (after all, Maxima didn't so much defect as had an attempt on his life and is basically a refugee, I don't think he's actually decried the nation, just the fact that the previous Emperor was an Ascian) already has diplomatic ties among the Eorzean and Othardian Alliances.

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Originally Posted by WhiteArchmage

Did Maxima die off-screen and I forgot about it or are people ignoring the one actual Garlean who's open to reconciliation, we personally know, and already has political clout in the Garleans' eye?

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Maxima could have died off-screen, yes. If not, I expect him to return in 5.5 alongside Thancred. But honestly, considering how hard the writers have been pushing forward in getting us to 6.0, I wouldn't count on anyone opposed to Zenos making it out of the country alive unless they're a main character. And I fear the same is true for Nerva, unfortunately.

Let's hope that both survived, yeah?

Maxima is likely still around, since last we heard and saw of him he was hiding out in Eorzea. I do think he's likely to play a part in the story moving forward. He has a unique model, I believe...and despite being a fairly minor character at the time he was drawn in one of the previous patch art pieces. He strikes me as more of an advisor and diplomat rather than a leader figure, though.

It also remains to be seen how much damage Zenos and Fandaniel inflict upon Garlemald, exactly. It's possible that ever since Varis' demise, quite a few Garleans have been sneaking out of the capital due to the risk and unrest that came with a fresh war of succession. It's also very likely that there will be some manner of aetheryte and settlement in the zone itself, complete with NPC's to interact with.

To say nothing of the Garleans that are scattered and stationed elsewhere. I have my doubts that every single remaining Legion is going to side with Zenos, too. Gabranth already took his men in a different direction and even Valens looked down on Zenos as little more than a rabid beast.

We interacted with two honourable Legatus in the form of Regula and Gaius. We haven't met Gabranth directly, yet, though he also has his own code of honour. Still, that makes three.

Could we end up rallying behind and helping a Legatus that takes charge over evacuation efforts and seeks to aid in confronting Zenos? Possibly.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Thankfully it doesn't appear as though the writing is going in such a direction as the writers themselves have made no secret of the various in-game conflicts being a matter of perspective rather than black and white morality. Garlemald is very much based off of the Roman Empire, which is pretty complex in itself - but there's no reason for the Eorzean Alliance to swoop in and start executing people just because they previously supported expansionist policies. (Something which every nation, real world or in-game has done at some point).

Though if you insist on such a route, I look forward to you shoving the likes of Aymeric, Artoriel and Edmont into a guillotine for supporting the former regime that led Ishgard. Ignorance isn't an excuse, right?

Jests aside, Cid's good at engineering but has shown very little nuance in regards to political or cultural matters. He's a defector who turned on his own people instead of working to reform things from within. That he falsely blamed Varis and Solus for shooting him rather than his father due to trauma also leads one to question his mental stability.

I think it's pretty likely that Garlemald will go in a similar direction to Ishgard. It'll undergo reform, but the Eorzean Alliance isn't going to obsessively seek to punish the Garleans. Especially since the only reason Garlemald became an Empire in the first place is due to the Garleans themselves being unable to use aether in most cases and being driven to near extinction by their neighbours.

If anything, it'll be a story about breaking the cycle and establishing Garlemald as having a seat at the table as Eorzea's equal.

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False equivalency, The Lords Aymeric, Artoriel, and Edmont discovered the truth behind a thousand year war of survival and immediately worked to let the truth be known. Though I would gladly swing the axe for the people if they so choose. I'm not exactly married to the idea of keeping titles of Nobility and the holier than thou mentality as I personally dislike it in real life.

Gaius on the other hand is a war criminal and known tyrant and slaver. The men of Ala Mhigo were put to hard labor and the women were made to do "far worse". Policies I'm sure that would have carried into the rest of Eorzea had he not been stopped at Silvertear. That's your preferred ruler? Gaius "adopt them to bop them" Van Baelsar? Who knowingly worked with an Ascian as a tool to his detriment. Fine, I will throw out another alternative, imprisonment and a trial. Nuremburg style. Again, I would volunteer to swing the axe. I only say this due to your comment about Rome being the framework of Garlemald. So corruption, heavy handed policies, and weak leaders. Yeah, that matches up. Why reward them?


Nerva? lol

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

I don’t think the Alliances have any right to dictate what’s considered wrong considering each of them is corrupt in their own way.

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Neither do the losers of a war they started.



I'll grant you that the Garleans were bullied early on. But until evidence is given otherwise? I'm going with the Ascians creating a slave race with a chip on it's shoulder to instigate a war and cause mayhem the world over to make the beast tribes summon primals to justify expansion to create more conflict to create havoc... etc. etc.

If we're talking "Where did the Garleans come from?", ever since the introduction of the Ancients/Amaurotine people, I've always been partial to the idea that they are the descendants of that race, and that their inability to manipulate aether was inflicted on them. By who, I don't know. Hydaelyn, perhaps. Or the Ascians, as a long running setup for what would eventually become the Garlean Empire.

I base this on absolutely nothing, of course, save for the fact that it's really hard to imagine Emet-Selch without a Garlean third eye.

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Originally Posted by Rosenstrauch

If we're talking "Where did the Garleans come from?", ever since the introduction of the Ancients/Amaurotine people, I've always been partial to the idea that they are the descendants of that race, and that their inability to manipulate aether was inflicted on them. By who, I don't know. Hydaelyn, perhaps. Or the Ascians, as a long running setup for what would eventually become the Garlean Empire.

I base this on absolutely nothing, of course, save for the fact that it's really hard to imagine Emet-Selch without a Garlean third eye.

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The Garleans are likely an Allagan Redux. A puppet empire that's easier to manipulate, because they had their ability to manipulate aether engineered out of them. The Allagans on the other hand seemed to be comprised of most normal races or a race that could manipulate aether, as evidenced by Xande, SMN questline, and all of the stuff that says they could.

With what we know about them knowing the exact mechanics of tempering, and that they could have cured it... it's likely that the Ascians decided to go with a race that couldn't, even if they somehow came up with the formulae.

As for the third eye... perhaps that was a flair Emet-selch gave Garleans, because Ancients did have them. I mean, we haven't been shown any that don't wear masks hehe.

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Originally Posted by Riastrad

False equivalency, The Lords Aymeric, Artoriel, and Edmont discovered the truth behind a thousand year war of survival and immediately worked to let the truth be known. Though I would gladly swing the axe for the people if they so choose. I'm not exactly married to the idea of keeping titles of Nobility and the holier than thou mentality as I personally dislike it in real life.

Gaius on the other hand is a war criminal and known tyrant and slaver. The men of Ala Mhigo were put to hard labor and the women were made to do "far worse". Policies I'm sure that would have carried into the rest of Eorzea had he not been stopped at Silvertear. That's your preferred ruler? Gaius "adopt them to bop them" Van Baelsar? Who knowingly worked with an Ascian as a tool to his detriment. Fine, I will throw out another alternative, imprisonment and a trial. Nuremburg style. Again, I would volunteer to swing the axe. I only say this due to your comment about Rome being the framework of Garlemald. So corruption, heavy handed policies, and weak leaders. Yeah, that matches up. Why reward them?


Nerva? lol




Neither do the losers of a war they started.



I'll grant you that the Garleans were bullied early on. But until evidence is given otherwise? I'm going with the Ascians creating a slave race with a chip on it's shoulder to instigate a war and cause mayhem the world over to make the beast tribes summon primals to justify expansion to create more conflict to create havoc... etc. etc.

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People can change. As has Gaius. We know little of Nerva in detail. All they require for a new ruler is some level of popularity with the fanbase and for an outlook amenable to cooperation, irrespective of what quaint revenge fantasies some might harbour.

By the by, they confirmed that in Livia's case the fixation originated entirely from her and that she was obsessed with him, while he tried to keep her at arm's length - they did so in Werlyt. As ever, that particular narrative was the product of the fanbase's own interpretation of things...