Attention Overgeared DPS in AK

Printable View

Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

10-01-2013, 05:38 AM
Vod

If the dps insists on tanking trash, let them do it. Bust out sword oath to make the run faster, and see how long it takes when people die and have to run back.
10-01-2013, 05:41 AM
YeaniNah

all i can say with this OP ..he hate when we do AOE ..cos AOE = slow kill and we might get aggros and he might leave ???

your on Ragnarok ?? name wrote :) ty ..anyway i think ill party with my FC ..they can hold all aggro :D when we AOE
10-01-2013, 05:44 AM
Sup3rB4d

Quote:

Originally Posted by KogaDrake

dear tank (overgeared tanks too),

if my `over' geared DPS uses any buffs I'm tanking even the marked mob. I enter AK expecting to tank a good part of the trash, its trash and to hold back to not tank and take longer isnt worth the time. I'll hold back a bit on the bosses for you, but dont expect to tank trash, and get mad when you lose hate.

If the healer is bad, the dps will watch there threat, but if I as a DPS can tank one trash with little to no risk of death, THANK the DPS for speeding up the run rather than slowing it to let you tank.

Signed
-a bad player

fixed that for you
10-01-2013, 05:47 AM
Amyas

Quote:

Originally Posted by YeaniNah

all i can say with this OP ..he hate when we do AOE ..cos AOE = slow kill and we might get aggros and he might leave ???

your on Ragnarok ?? name wrote :) ty ..anyway i think ill party with my FC ..they can hold all aggro :D when we AOE

Nice nitpicking you did thar. Reading is hard for some people I guess :x

Quote:

Originally Posted by cfStatic

If I go all out on 1 and still take it from you, please do leave. That way I can drop and re-queue with a proper tank like I should've done the first time 'round. Sincerely, an over-geared DPS running AK.

/sigh, what is with people on here and not reading the full thread before posting?

Quote:

Originally Posted by YeaniNah

you dont like losing aggroes ... and you want us to aim mob you mark = 1 mob ..so we cant do AOE that touching those you didnt mark so we get aggro and you leave ....

uhh... what? All I ask is (focus target). Also, don't use your aoe on slept mobs. That's about it. :T
10-01-2013, 05:50 AM
cfStatic

If I go all out on 1 and still take it from you, please do leave. That way I can drop and re-queue with a proper tank like I should've done the first time 'round. Sincerely, an over-geared DPS running AK.
10-01-2013, 05:50 AM
YeaniNah

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amyas

Nice nitpicking you did thar. Reading is hard for some people I guess :x

you dont like losing aggroes ... and you want us to aim mob you mark = 1 mob ..so we cant do AOE that touching those you didnt mark so we get aggro and you leave ....

to make sure i read

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amyas

--->>>>If you want to go all out(means touch all or kill any.. could mean AOE too), fine, but do it on the marked mob(marked mob mean the one you touch mean 1 by 1 ..so no AOE), if not, you get to be the tank(i get aggro if i do AOE) and I'll leave. I'm not there to play a game of trash mob ping-pong with you, especially when you've apparently ran it enough to know better. :D

there i read between line
10-01-2013, 05:54 AM
Onimal

Are you the kind of tank that sucks and thinks that the game should be safer rather than better?

When a tank pulls, he's not there to do damage. He is there to control agro. Attack, pull, mark 1, flash, switch to #2, attack agro, switch to #3, attack agro, switch again. Tank is to control all mobs.

As a SMN using CD's I've been able to steal agro from a tank who is actively attacking a target. If I were to then use Bane and spread my dots around while doing more AE I can take a lot of agro. My FC tanks know this, and accommodate because they know trash dies faster this way. In AK we do 3-6 mobs at a time so they die faster, same with PR/CM. Tanks always hold these well.
10-01-2013, 06:00 AM
YeaniNah

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amyas

Nice nitpicking you did thar. Reading is hard for some people I guess :x

/sigh, what is with people on here and not reading the full thread before posting?

uhh... what? All I ask is (focus target). Also, don't use your aoe on slept mobs. That's about it. :T

wait sleeping mob at this state of playing ??? i understand at lower level ..but sleeping mob on a fast run ??? come on are you using Disciple of War armo if you cant survive many mobs hitting you or you ask other to sleep mob and waste time by killing one by one???
10-01-2013, 06:04 AM
Onimal

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amyas

Dangit, if you randomly steal hate, that's absolutely fine, I messed up, and it'll be easy peasy to fix with a provok+tomahawk and the arse end of butcher's block combo that I start on the original marked mob. Again, this thread is about (geared, knowledgable) people going off on their own and purposely tanking as a blm or w/e and ignoring my marks, because hey, its doable. Takes longer but its doable.

Tank pulls 3-6 mobs.
Everyone usually starts on #1.
BLM/SMN start their AE rotations - that's why you pulled so many right? If i'm rolling SMN, I'll do my full Dot stack on 1, move it to the rest, case my AE's, then start adding single dots to every other non-marked target as these will do more damage than me just spamming Ruin. By the time mob 4-6 are targeted by the tank they're usually down 1/2-3/5 hp. That's a Win.

That being said, if I see a trash mob on a healer and the tank isn't picking it up, I'll purposefully agro that thing and unload on it.
10-01-2013, 06:07 AM
juliord

You don't even need to mark... Enemies get ordered alphabetically when pulling, the one you "shield lob" first gets the the first letter and just ask DD to go by that.

Also, if the DD are indeed over geared enemies should die fast enough that pulling aggro for a second shouldn't be a problem. AK is so DD geared that every fight is a DPS check. Tanking is a joke in that place!
10-01-2013, 06:08 AM
Sinth

Attention undergeared tanks in AK: Run CM/WP 10 or so times before you run AK.
10-01-2013, 06:09 AM
Amyas

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onimal

Tank pulls 3-6 mobs.
Everyone usually starts on #1.
BLM/SMN start their AE rotations - that's why you pulled so many right? If i'm rolling SMN, I'll do my full Dot stack on 1, move it to the rest, case my AE's, then start adding single dots to every other non-marked target as these will do more damage than me just spamming Ruin. By the time mob 4-6 are targeted by the tank they're usually down 1/2-3/5 hp. That's a Win.

That being said, if I see a trash mob on a healer and the tank isn't picking it up, I'll purposefully agro that thing and unload on it.

In this scenario I should have little to no trouble holding hate, been rolling with a smn buddy in AK quite a few times and never really had a problem on that. All I ask is that you start your dots on the marked one and wait to use bane til I have all mobs stacked on top of each other for maximum effect. I know how to tab through and put myself back on the top of the hate list for adds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sinth

Attention undergeared tanks in AK: Run CM/WP 10 or so times before you run AK.

I actually had the full TWP set before I finished the story. Now I've got all AK gear with five pieces of Darklight and a Malignant Mog Axe. I'm not undergeared for AK, not in the slightest. (tank ring finally dropped last night ftfw!) Ah, I also like to rock my Behe helm in lieu of the hoplite circlet, just because. Shouldn't make me 'undergeared' though :P

EDIT: Your 'advice' is good for everyone, not just tanks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by juliord

You don't even need to mark... Enemies get ordered alphabetically when pulling, the one you "shield lob" first gets the the first letter and just ask DD to go by that.

Also, if the DD are indeed over geared enemies should die fast enough that pulling aggro for a second shouldn't be a problem. AK is so DD geared that every fight is a DPS check. Tanking is a joke in that place!

I know, its usually pretty zen for me because tanking can be soo lazy if you have a group that knows how you play. In this case though, the ones that pulled aggro weren't able to kill em fast enough for it to be worth doing it time-wise.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cfStatic

I can manage my threat just fine, but I'll be honest when I say that if I've waited 8 seconds for you to do a shield lob / tomahawk followed by a rage of halone or butchers block combo, and still pull aggro afterwards, I don't want you to tank for me. I run with PLD's and WAR's alike who can keep threat when I'm going all out. I'm mindful of tanks less geared than I am, but if I can't even do my rotation, there is a problem and it's not with me.

*comes to thread about bad dd players, proceeds to complain about bad tanks while defending badness on the dd's part*

-you

Stay classy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayCommon

But quitting a dungeon because one person is derping isn't exactly the right way to handle it either. And please don't call all DD's derps. We aren't. You will find them using DF but some of us steer clear of DF because of derp tank/healers as well.

><
Thank you for your response. I just felt that it would get worse as we progressed, hopefully they got a tank that was able to cope.
10-01-2013, 06:16 AM
Drakzen1

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiraelina

Anyone wonders why there's always a tank shortage? There you go!

The only ignorance flying around here is DPS that think their role doesn't include threat management. Threat management isn't waiting a few seconds and then ignoring it. If DPS ever pulls and the tank isn't dead, the fault is entirely that DPS.

lmao this is sooo true!!
10-01-2013, 06:18 AM
cfStatic

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiraelina

Anyone wonders why there's always a tank shortage? There you go!

The only ignorance flying around here is DPS that think their role doesn't include threat management. Threat management isn't waiting a few seconds and then ignoring it. If DPS ever pulls and the tank isn't dead, the fault is entirely that DPS.

I can manage my threat just fine, but I'll be honest when I say that if I've waited 8 seconds for you to do a shield lob / tomahawk followed by a rage of halone or butchers block combo, and still pull aggro afterwards, I don't want you to tank for me. I run with PLD's and WAR's alike who can keep threat when I'm going all out. I'm mindful of tanks less geared than I am, but if I can't even do my rotation, there is a problem and it's not with me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amyas

No, you need to read the thread so you don't come off as ignorant. See my above reply to Onimal. Are you a dd that goes ahead and pulls mobs on your own? Do you ignore marks? Do you even know there's a hate meter? (you'd be surprised at how many non-tanks don't even realize its there) If so, then good luck on waiting for a new tank and requeueing! I know I will after my 15 mins are up and maybe I'll get some proper dds that know how to play in a party properly.

Did you read the part where I said if I attack 1? Where I said I'd wait for you to do your combo? If I do these things and still end up having to stand around because I'm generating more threat than you, by all means. Do eat the 15 mins so I can take 5 and re-queue with a tank I know is going to be able to do his job.
10-01-2013, 06:21 AM
Lexxuk

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sinth

Attention undergeared tanks in AK: Run CM/WP 10 or so times before you run AK.

Yes, then you'll only be 395 tomes short for one piece of armour! Excellent advice......
10-01-2013, 06:25 AM
JayCommon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amyas

Its just hard to keep on when you're on a totally different wave length with a group of strangers with totally different play styles.

I'm really not trying to troll you, but I have read through 8 entire pages of responses and it seems like you are honestly the only one who is on a different wave length, even though I do agree with you.

For one, this marking targets for DD's shit is ridiculous for 2-3 mobs. As a DD, if you can't tell which mob is being damaged than you aren't paying enough attention. It is a simple glance at the HP bars of the enemies. Don't QQ there and wait for a tank to mark trash targets when they shouldn't need to unless the fight calls for it (read: large groups or enemy healers) As a DD, I will always attack a marked target. Period. The way I see it, it's much easier for me to follow an instruction than it is for a tank to cycle through hate. It doesn't mean you shouldn't be doing it anyway, but I will atk marked targets as to help out the frustration.

The problem here is, you are doing AK. After AK is done once by 90% of the community, they will want to speed run it every time thereafter due to the amount of times we must run it. Your OP doesn't sound like something that happens that often. I can understand your frustration with a BLM casting on a mob before you even pull, especially if they aren't powerful enough to kill it fast. This sounds more like the exception rather than the norm, however.

But quitting a dungeon because one person is derping isn't exactly the right way to handle it either. And please don't call all DD's derps. We aren't. You will find them using DF but some of us steer clear of DF because of derp tank/healers as well.
10-01-2013, 06:27 AM
dontcare

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiraelina

If DPS ever pulls and the tank isn't dead, the fault is entirely that DPS.

Good to know! Next time I tank I'll simply autoattack and blame the DPS when they pull.
10-01-2013, 06:29 AM
Tiraelina

Quote:

Originally Posted by dontcare

Good to know! Next time I tank I'll simply autoattack and blame the DPS when they pull.

That falls under the unwritten rules of not being a window licker.
10-01-2013, 06:37 AM
KienanVates

Amusing thread is amusing... No, I have nothing to add other than that. Thank you for amusing me.
10-01-2013, 06:38 AM
cfStatic

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amyas

*comes to thread about bad dd players, proceeds to complain about bad tanks while defending badness on the dd's part*

-you

Stay classy.

I'm not defending anyone but myself, being a DL geared MNK with relic +1. You directed this thread at "over geared" DPS. I think it's pretty safe to say that I probably over gear AK. If I wait a, imo, outrageous amount of time for you to do your butchers block combo, attack the one you marked, and I'm still having to stand around like an idiot because you can't get your shit together(on trash no less!) then the only "bad" around here is you.
10-01-2013, 06:46 AM
SoullessSvipdagr

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amyas

LOL! If you can hold hate with just flash and your gimpy aoe damage attack then your dds just plain don't know how to play, simple. (bit hard to 'just switch to mob they're on when they pull them away and run around out of 'voke range, but good on you, you must play with your friends and FC only I hope)

I swear, people just don't know how to read, you're embarrassing yourself.

I'm not the one that looks bad in that situation there buddy. You must be one of the ones that ignores marks and does what you want, good for you. Hope you run with your FC or LS, if not, have fun waiting.

If we ever play together, I'll decide.
10-01-2013, 06:49 AM
Vmage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiraelina

Anyone wonders why there's always a tank shortage? There you go!

The only ignorance flying around here is DPS that think their role doesn't include threat management. Threat management isn't waiting a few seconds and then ignoring it. If DPS ever pulls and the tank isn't dead, the fault is entirely that DPS.

this line of thinking if why there are so many entitled tanks out there, making threads like this.

if any dps pulls off the tank for any reason, that was the tank's failing

there's exactly one job in the game that can pull (when played poorly) off of a properly played tank, and here's a clue: it's not a dps

any tank claiming to have a hard time holding mobs off of dps simply hasn't learned how to do their job correctly yet
10-01-2013, 06:50 AM
Roaran

Overgeared DPS are used to better tanks. You are not a better tank. I think the rest is self-explanatory.
10-01-2013, 06:52 AM
Ceelo_Mage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amyas

See, this isn't want this thread is about. These players are doing the exact opposite of what you say, pulling off an mob I didn't mark (I use, and only should have to use, the 1 mark) [I]and running it away from me, trying to kite it while trying to kill it at the same time.

so if im AOEing and i grab aggro then you need to learn how to AOE threat

ie learn how to tank more then one mob silly
10-01-2013, 06:52 AM
SoullessSvipdagr

Quote:

Originally Posted by dontcare

Good to know! Next time I tank I'll simply autoattack and blame the DPS when they pull.

Dontcare +1... Tiraelina -1
10-01-2013, 06:58 AM
Sephirah

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vmage

this line of thinking if why there are so many entitled tanks out there, making threads like this.

if any dps pulls off the tank for any reason, that was the tank's failing

there's exactly one job in the game that can pull (when played poorly) off of a properly played tank, and here's a clue: it's not a dps

any tank claiming to have a hard time holding mobs off of dps simply hasn't learned how to do their job correctly yet

This is not WoW, while I agree it is the tanks job to hold threat, and I personally feel like I am failing when I lose it. Threat management is most definitely a group effort in this game. DPS need to know what to attack and when, just like your whms need to know when to use their shroud of saints on Titan.
10-01-2013, 07:02 AM
MStowastiqVahlshdeh

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soulburn32

What everyone should know.

As a tank I don't care if you steal aggro from me. I consider it a fail on my part other than if you attack before I do, then that on you.

If you want me to get the add off of you, you need to run to me not run away from me or in circles lol.

I have this fancy move called cover, you know to stop you from taking damage?

Anyway its a team effort. If your group wants to AoE spam, SAY IT IN CHAT! Atleast then everyone is on the same page.

LOL thank you for that info, that's just what I did, run in circles AWAY from the tank. "The more you know[ding]"

I have yet to participate in a speed run though where any kind of independent mob killing is expected from the dps or AOE without me asking first. I appreciate that this thread is about a different kind of instance than I have done... but still, your advice is useful to me.
10-01-2013, 07:08 AM
Chiruru53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amyas

><
Thank you for your response. I just felt that it would get worse as we progressed, hopefully they got a tank that was able to cope.

Screwing up a run for an innocent healer or dps, or both cause one makes mistakes? Hahaha, nice one. Way to make them sit in queue for another 30 minutes when they did nothing wrong, that'll teach 'em for.... being there. Also, It's pretty hard to screw up an AK run, the only real way you could is by repeatedly failing demon wall, not because of aggro issues on trash mobs.
Same goes for any dungeon. Only way a run can be screwed up is if a tank fails to hold aggro on a boss, which in almost every case ONE mob. So all the blame for a screwed up run would be on you, as a tank, in that regard. If the healer is bad, that's another story.
10-01-2013, 07:23 AM
Dreamer

Dear DPS,

If you insist on trying to tank, have fun running back from the starting point as I'm here to run the instance properly, not save you from your own stupidity.
10-01-2013, 07:25 AM
Risae

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dreamer

Dear DPS,

If you insist on trying to tank, have fun running back from the starting point as I'm here to run the instance properly, not save you from your own stupidity.

Dear Tank,

If you insist on wasting time, have fun getting blacklisted on every occasion as I'm here to run the instance fast, making everybody happy.
10-01-2013, 07:29 AM
ashikenshin

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risae

Dear Tank,

If you insist on wasting time, have fun getting blacklisted on every occasion as I'm here to run the instance fast, making everybody happy.

you were replying to a healer. and good luck blacklisting people from other servers.
10-01-2013, 07:35 AM
Animation

Dear under geared tank, please remove Regen before you charge in, that's the reason I'm pulling trash..

Signed, concerned White Mage.

P.S: Please kill the lights first.
10-01-2013, 07:39 AM
Rufio

I really get annoyed by Relic Bards pulling hate even on marked mobs, but then I think... "This is still faster than being with undergeared DPS" and I just let them tank a little.
10-01-2013, 07:45 AM
SoullessSvipdagr

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashikenshin

you were replying to a healer. and good luck blacklisting people from other servers.

There are plenty of healers. Massive amount in fact... It's the tanks that are in high demand - which is why the op has any credibility at this point.
10-01-2013, 07:45 AM
Tiraelina

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vmage

...

It's being entitled thinking that every tank should be the best geared and highly skilled. When you largely have everything short of AF2, you're really no longer in a position to tell other tanks its easy. You should be well aware of how gear skews perspectives.

It's the equivalent of telling the dungeon geared tank to L2P because he's having trouble with the heroic raid geared DPS that are ignoring threat.

Anyone that doesn't like the idea that tank gear and skill varies shouldn't be randoming. They should be making friends with those tanks they like and keep running with them and save everyone else the headache.

Nothing is stopping them from just rolling a tank if its so easy and non-stressful either.
10-01-2013, 07:49 AM
SoullessSvipdagr

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiraelina

Nothing is stopping them from just rolling a tank if its so easy and non-stressful either.

So true! This is when I just tell them I am better than they are... And if they want tips, they only need ask.
10-01-2013, 07:50 AM
Insidious

Dear under geared and probably bad tanks,

Get better or get gone.
10-01-2013, 09:33 AM
Arkista

One problem I see with tanks in AK they aren't marking trash mobs and then they wonder why the two DPS are fighting different mobs. Don't be lazy mark your mobs and if I don't know what mob your on I'll tank my own.
10-01-2013, 09:35 AM
Neasa

Quote:

Originally Posted by Insidious

Dear under geared and probably bad tanks,

Get better or get gone.

How do you propose they get better gear without running the dungeon?
10-01-2013, 09:40 AM
Raxion

The only thing that gets on my nerves atm, are trigger-happy Bards that decide it's a good idea to start firing the moment I arrive at a pack of mobs. Sometimes the spiteful side of me wants to just let the mob eat them, while I quietly move on to attacking my "2" mark.

I usually don't do that though. Even if they're being obliviously brain-dead, I just can't force myself to purposely be an asshole.

Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page