BLM vs Bard

Hahaha ranger was one of the first jobs in XI to get nerfed and it's looking like history might repeat itself here if people are already whining about it :P GG SE

What they need to do is buff melee DPS: Monk and dragoon, they're currently doing really worse DPS than ranged: BLM, BRD and SMN.

Parsers are not accurate atm so dont even bother using them as "Fact" or "Accurate". SMN, BRD, and BLM having many DoTs.

Between Brd's constant small dmg with TP being a factor and BLM's large spike dmg with unlimited MP, I consider the jobs on par for their roles.

The only advantage Brd has is DPSing on the move with no interrupt.

Between XI and XIV all BLMs do is complain they aren't top DPS. Then they become top DPS, they exploit/stack and SE drops them a notch. Then they complain more. Rinse and Repeat.

In Closing....

Blue Garter MUST BE DOING IT WRONG. 2BLMS ON TURN 4! OMMMGGGGG!!!!!!! What's this? A MNK on TURN 4 AAAAAAARRRRGGGGG! Only 1 BRD, NOOOOOOO!!!
http://cdn.guildwork.net/albums/imag...50cf0931c3.jpg

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Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

I can already see Bard being nerfed because people keep bitching about it. Anytime a large portion of people bitch, something gets nerfed.

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Or they could buff the other classes?

Sigh, another bad player posting misconceptions on classes they don't know how to play.

Current dps rankings under ideal conditions; SMN > MNK > LNC > BLM > BRD > BRD (singing)

Current dps rankinds under realistic conditions; MNK > BLM = SMN > LNC = BRD > BRD (singing)

This was tested over 6 minute and 30 second sessions on test dummies and over 100 Titan runs. Thus far results are holding true in Coil up to turn 5.

Basically, if you are getting out dps'd by bards, as any class, it's not the class...it's you.

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Originally Posted by LeviathanElite

Or they could buff the other classes?

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it's far easier to tune one thing that's above the rest down than tune everything else up

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Originally Posted by CursedCoffee

Sigh, another bad player posting misconceptions on classes they don't know how to play.

Current dps rankings under ideal conditions; SMN > MNK > LNC > BLM > BRD > BRD (singing)

Current dps rankinds under realistic conditions; MNK > BLM = SMN > LNC = BRD > BRD (singing)

This was tested over 6 minute and 30 second sessions on test dummies and over 100 Titan runs. Thus far results are holding true in Coil up to turn 5.

Basically, if you are getting out dps'd by bards, as any class, it's not the class...it's you.

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I do know how to play the class, and its funny that you are the only one saying monk does the most dps when literally everyone else here is saying how terrible they are.

Where did you get these numbers? 100 titan runs? Bahamut coil tests? Where is this data?

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Originally Posted by CursedCoffee

MNK > BLM

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Yeah, right.

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Originally Posted by CursedCoffee

Sigh, another bad player posting misconceptions on classes they don't know how to play.

Current dps rankings under ideal conditions; SMN > MNK > LNC > BLM > BRD > BRD (singing)

Current dps rankinds under realistic conditions; MNK > BLM = SMN > LNC = BRD > BRD (singing)

This was tested over 6 minute and 30 second sessions on test dummies and over 100 Titan runs. Thus far results are holding true in Coil up to turn 5.

Basically, if you are getting out dps'd by bards, as any class, it's not the class...it's you.

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This guy gets it. Bards have so much damage handicaps it's not even funny. If you are being out DPSed by a Bard, it's because they're a better player than you.

What i love about this game is you are given so many skills and all are useful. All i hear here is the OP crying for new abilities because he assumes Brds do more dps than BLM but has not produced anything to prove it except expecting everyone to take his word for it.
The same OP (Yes you LeviathanElite) who is crying because he/she things BLM have absolutely no way to do dps when on the move. "Oh my god I cannot do any dps when I am moving what shall I ever do? I know go to the fourms , whine and complain about how we need more procs and insta spells to cast on the move /WHILE COMPLETELY IGNORING MY LVL 15 SPELL CALLED SCATHE WHICH ALSO HAS A BUFF TO DO MORE DMG/"

And there you have it guys. Black mages who cannot figure out that every spell they have , has its use. and it saddens me to see them geared up better than me, crying up a storm because they cannot dps when they have to move when they /have/ a spell to do just that. Learn to play you moving, cast scathe.

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Originally Posted by Dorin

Yeah, right.

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^

He claims I dont know anything about my class, then proceeds to come up with a "100 titan. bahamut coil test" false citing, and then claims monk does most dps in game.

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Originally Posted by LeviathanElite

Where is this data?

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Where is yours OP? You started this poor thread based on zero Theory-crafting, zero data and pure assumption and opinion.

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Originally Posted by Shadowzanon

What i love about this game is you are given so many skills and all are useful. All i hear here is the OP crying for new abilities because he assumes Brds do more dps than BLM but has not produced anything to prove it except expecting everyone to take his word for it.
The same OP (Yes you LeviathanElite) who is crying because he/she things BLM have absolutely no way to do dps when on the move.

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Its people like you that throw any civil discussion of the topic out of the window.

You have literally said nothing productive

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Originally Posted by Dorin

Yeah, right.

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Yes, this is correct. Thank you for agreeing with the above statement.

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Originally Posted by LeviathanElite

I do know how to play the class, and its funny that you are the only one saying monk does the most dps when literally everyone else here is saying how terrible they are.

Where did you get these numbers? 100 titan runs? Bahamut coil tests? Where is this data?

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I can release data eventually. Right now it's a complete mess. But all the top guilds run monks for a reason. The only reason...the ONLY reason they ever get sat is because half of this game's content really hates melee. But the class has one of the highest dps outputs right now.

You can either follow the actions of world class guilds, or believe the nonsense people cry over their own shortcoming in general discussion. Your call.

I insist, buff melee DPS. And I'm a BLM saying this, so I would have nothing to win out of it. But I've ran countless dungeons with MNK and DRG and I've seen it with my own eyes. I can sit behind critical hitting and proccing Firestarter and Thundercloud all the time while they have to be constantly stopping their DPS to dodge.

That plus positioning (MNK), makes it very unrealistic to say it does more damage than BLM.

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Originally Posted by LeviathanElite

I actually know the rotation really well.

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Well, actually looking at your rotation, this explains a lot. Look, I noticed we're on the same server. I have some blackmages that can give you some feed back on optimizing your rotation and show you how to start "double dipping buffs."

If you want to take me up on it. I'll be in game about an hour when the servers come back up.

Seriously ive met tons of your kind in various mmo's and i seriously fail to understand what drives you people in to askin for nerf nerf nerf and even more nerfs on classes
Learn to ask for class improvements thats more constructive.
Today is Bards you target tommorow its gonna be somethin else and dont even try to convince me eitherwise its how people like you tick.

Bards are making our lives easier by dishing out damage......Lets Nerf them....seriously what's with people hating on a class all the time that in turn helps them....Let's not forget bards don't have a damage lb, people will still needs blm's monks and dragoons so stfu.

melee does need a buff, their range attacks to continue to dps while on the move is very expensive, while we have firstarter, thundercloud and when those are not up we can scathe till we can stay put again.

I'm perfectly happy with my dps. KTHXBAI.

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Originally Posted by arctic

Well, actually looking at your rotation, this explains a lot. Look, I noticed we're on the same server. I have some blackmages that can give you some feed back on optimizing your rotation and show you how to start "double dipping buffs."

If you want to take me up on it. I'll be in game about an hour when the servers come back up.

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^ If you loved your job, you would take this offer regardless to hear them out. Put your ego aside, there is always room for improvement.

From all the stuff I've been doing id argue the dragoon does as much or more dmg than the bard/blm. I find that this gamr is more on players needing to learn rotations and watch procs. Gear yes but I've seen plenty of amazing dps come from drg and monks who KNOW how to play their class. Too many people even at 50 don't know what their own skills and rotations do. I seen a 50 bard who said that we don't have a tp song............
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DPS Averages
Gear: Relic +1, Full Darklight, AK appropriate secondary ring.

Ideal Conditions: SMN(350) MNK(295) LNC(280) *BLM(270) **BRD(180-220)

Realistic Conditions: MNK(235) SMN(210) *BLM(200) LNC(190) **BRD(180-220)

*BLM results can vary quite drastically based on Flare critical hits and Thundercloud procs. BLM has seen as low as 170 and as high as 230

**BRD dps varies based on how much they are required to sing. Sometimes they are a bit higher or a bit lower depending on conditions.

Sneak peak on compiled data :P

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Originally Posted by Blank0022

From all the stuff I've been doing id argue the dragoon does as much or more dmg than the bard/blm. I find that this gamr is more on players needing to learn rotations and watch procs. Gear yes but I've seen plenty of amazing dps come from drg and monks who KNOW how to play their class. Too many people even at 50 don't know what their own skills and rotations do. I seen a 50 bard who said that we don't have a tp song............
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Jobs don't learn skills by level up. It's perfectly possible that he stopped jobs quests on 30 or 35 and never knew (or even had a preview) that a TP song exists because he (*chuckles*) couldn't beat the earlier job quests.

The op can start by figuring out he does have an insta cast spell for on the move moments, a blm who is not constantly doing dmg is doing it wrong. every fight ive been that requires me to move constantly even when getting out of that big orange circle of doom im using scathe to keep my dmg going. I dont run and do jack squat then come to the fourms and complain about another class that can do damage on the move. The fact that every class has some sort of range ability they can use while on the move (learn to strafe) means there are always ways to maximize your dps regardless of the situation.

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Originally Posted by CursedCoffee

DPS Averages
Gear: Relic +1, Full Darklight, AK appropriate secondary ring.

Ideal Conditions: SMN(350) MNK(295) LNC(280) *BLM(270) **BRD(180-220)

Realistic Conditions: MNK(235) SMN(210) *BLM(200) LNC(190) **BRD(180-220)

*BLM results can vary quite drastically based on Flare critical hits and Thundercloud procs. BLM has seen as low as 170 and as high as 230

**BRD dps varies based on how much they are required to sing. Sometimes they are a bit higher or a bit lower depending on conditions.

Sneak peak on compiled data :P

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A friend of mine clocked me at 180 DPS on the final boss in ak....I havn't received my relic yet...I think it really comes down to the player not the class.

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Originally Posted by TaitoTots

A friend of mine clocked me at 180 DPS on the final boss in ak....I havn't received my relic yet...I think it really comes down to the player not the class.

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They stated their data was based off Titan HM and Binding Coil. Not AK.

220 is being generous for Bard. Even with a relic, your normal dps would be maybe 200.

Bard does lose some dps against Titan. You won't always be able to apply dots right as they fall off because you're too busy staying alive.

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Originally Posted by CursedCoffee

DPS Averages
Gear: Relic +1, Full Darklight, AK appropriate secondary ring.

Ideal Conditions: SMN(350) MNK(295) LNC(280) *BLM(270) **BRD(180-220)

Realistic Conditions: MNK(235) SMN(210) *BLM(200) LNC(190) **BRD(180-220)


Sneak peak on compiled data :P

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This is very inaccurate if it doesn't include using buffs and potions/food.

If a BRD uses Raging Strikes, Blood for Blood, Hawk's Eye, Internal Release, Barrage and an HQ Mega-Potion of Dexterity, they easily blow other DPS away,....in that 10 seconds. Also BRD's Foe Req allows their Venom Bite, Flaming Arrow and Wind Bite to do more dmg due to Elemental Resist being reduced by 10% w/o the BRD's dmg themselves being reduced 20%. Add "Battle Voice" and it's even more.

I use this setup and i blow other DPS out of the water easily. Also their DPS VARIES ALOT depending on how many times Blood Vow resets.

why bows have lower dmg than other weapons ? :(

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Originally Posted by EtherRose

This is very inaccurate if it doesn't include using buffs and potions/food.

If a BRD uses Raging Strikes, Blood for Blood, Hawk's Eye, Internal Release, Barrage and an HQ Mega-Potion of Dexterity, they easily blow other DPS away,....in that 10 seconds. Also BRD's Foe Req allows their Venom Bite, Flaming Arrow and Wind Bite to do more dmg due to Elemental Resist being reduced by 10% w/o the BRD's dmg themselves being reduced 20%. Add "Battle Voice" and it's even more.

I use this setup and i blow other DPS out of the water easily. Also their DPS VARIES ALOT depending on how many times Blood Vow resets.

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Foe's requiem doesn't appear to increase dot damage. Whenever I tested it, I noticed no increase. Even with battle voice.

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Originally Posted by CursedCoffee

DPS Averages
Gear: Relic +1, Full Darklight, AK appropriate secondary ring.

Ideal Conditions: SMN(350) MNK(295) LNC(280) *BLM(270) **BRD(180-220)

Realistic Conditions: MNK(235) SMN(210) *BLM(200) LNC(190) **BRD(180-220)

*BLM results can vary quite drastically based on Flare critical hits and Thundercloud procs. BLM has seen as low as 170 and as high as 230

**BRD dps varies based on how much they are required to sing. Sometimes they are a bit higher or a bit lower depending on conditions.

Sneak peak on compiled data :P

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Sounds legitimate. If anything, they need to atleast make the relic (ignoring the rest for now...) weapons have damage on par with all 8 other job with their stats (which are all equal btw, Bard's is the only one that is lower). Why are we still lower than healers in base damage?

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Originally Posted by EtherRose

This is very inaccurate if it doesn't include using buffs and potions/food.

If a BRD uses Raging Strikes, Blood for Blood, Hawk's Eye, Internal Release, Barrage and an HQ Mega-Potion of Dexterity, they easily blow other DPS away,....in that 10 seconds. Also BRD's Foe Req allows their Venom Bite, Flaming Arrow and Wind Bite to do more dmg due to Elemental Resist being reduced by 10% w/o the BRD's dmg themselves being reduced 20%. Add "Battle Voice" and it's even more.

I use this setup and i blow other DPS out of the water easily. Also their DPS VARIES ALOT depending on how many times Blood Vow resets.

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Foes's requiem actually is bugged. I submitted this during the first week and it's still sitting in the first section. It's doesn't do anything for Bards attacks that state "elemental damage" (e.g. windbite) and probably doesn't do anything at all. Of course this was overlooked when they removed elemental damage, but still the move literally does nothing but drain your MP. It's silly that bards were cheated out of a fifth job move, and the developers have refused to acknowledge this for a month since it's been said and they had time to fix menial things like text error in sidequests...

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Originally Posted by Shadowzanon

The op can start by figuring out he does have an insta cast spell for on the move moments

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while I haven't really done much with my blm yet...

are you sure hitting scathe and triggering your gcd so that you're waiting to cast after you've moved out of a circle is actually a dps increase?

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Originally Posted by EtherRose

If a BRD uses Raging Strikes, Blood for Blood, Hawk's Eye, Internal Release, Barrage and an HQ Mega-Potion of Dexterity, they easily blow other DPS away,....in that 10 seconds. Also BRD's Foe Req allows their Venom Bite, Flaming Arrow and Wind Bite to do more dmg due to Elemental Resist being reduced by 10% w/o the BRD's dmg themselves being reduced 20%. Add "Battle Voice" and it's even more.

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This is based off 6 minute and 30 second trials on test dummies for "ideal conditions" and full encounters for "realistic conditions". No one cares how much dps you do only during dps cooldowns. If you cared about only that, BLM would blow everyone out of the water as they are the most front loaded class in the game. That is BLM's niche. No one, absolutely no one will do more damage than a BLM with raging strike during a complete fire phase.

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Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

Foe's requiem doesn't appear to increase dot damage. Whenever I tested it, I noticed no increase. Even with battle voice.

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It does increase dot damage, but they need to be newly applied. This game uses snapshots to determine damage over time spells.

There is no "poison" element guys.

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Originally Posted by UBERHAXED

Sounds legitimate. If anything, they need to atleast make the relic (ignoring the rest for now...) weapons have damage on par with all 8 other job with their stats (which are all equal btw, Bard's is the only one that is lower). Why are we still lower than healers in base damage?



Foes's requiem actually is bugged. I submitted this during the first week and it's still sitting in the first section. It's doesn't do anything for Bards attacks that state "elemental damage" (e.g. windbite) and probably doesn't do anything at all. Of course this was overlooked when they removed elemental damage, but still the move literally does nothing but drain your MP. It's silly that bards were cheated out of a fifth job move, and the developers have refused to acknowledge this for a month since it's been said and they had time to fix menial things like text error in sidequests...

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I didn't think that song would do anything other then drain mp. =/

Bard is just an easy class to put bad players on and then still be successful at whatever you're doing.

Bad players can still DPS while dodging, bad players can stand further back, and the gear -> DPS requirements on Bard are pretty low, so as long as you learn a really fucking simple concept (Apply DoTs, use buffs) then Bard is the easiest job in the game.

If you have terrible players then it's the best DD class for them to jump on.

Do note that a Monk or Dragoon will easily out DPS them though.

Think of it like, Bard is for FFXI/FFXIV veterans, and Monk/Dragoon are for WoW veterans.

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Originally Posted by Vmage

snip

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While on the move. If you need to avoid something using scathe makes up for the lost time than just positioning yourself to then cast a spell when you are out of danger. any mechanic that has you moving for a while your better of using a spell you can fire than casting nothing at all. good examples will be if your tank misses an erruption on ifrit where you are forced to continue moving to avoid it you can still pop a shot while on the move, or when running up to ifrit druing the third plume. the fact that every class has some range ability even (ya monks have one skill with a 10 yalm range but also have shoulder tackle to recover lost ground) its knowing how to use them. The op claims to be unable to dps while moving while bards can when we have scathe for movement purposes. its just knowing how and when to use it, each fight has movement mechanics so figuring out when its best is determined by said mechanics. every spell has its use.

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Originally Posted by Churchill

Bard is just an easy class to put bad players on and then still be successful at whatever you're doing.

Bad players can still DPS while dodging, bad players can stand further back, and the gear -> DPS requirements on Bard are pretty low, so as long as you learn a really fucking simple concept (Apply DoTs, use buffs) then Bard is the easiest job in the game.

If you have terrible players then it's the best DD class for them to jump on.

Do note that a Monk or Dragoon will easily out DPS them though.

Think of it like, Bard is for FFXI/FFXIV veterans, and Monk/Dragoon are for WoW veterans.

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Because WoW required more skill then FFXI? Please stop with the ignorant comments before you ignite something much more then a debate about Black Mage and Bard.