Amdapor Keep Changes Unfair

How is it unfair that they changed the amount of time a run takes when at most you can only get 300 tokens a week anyway ?

If you're talking about philosophy tokens, castrum meridianum was more efficient to begin with.

Fixing an exploit is unfair....

A statement I never believed I would hear.

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Originally Posted by Alphawins

The new trash changes have made tome grinding totally unfair to new 50's such as myself. People in my situation now have to spend 300-400% more time grinding tomes for our darklight gear. The only payoff is that we get slightly more trash items to sell. Endgame just became seriously un-fun, I don't expect to pay for service when the trial is over if this keeps up.

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don't tell me we actually have to play the game in order to play the game now! i never imagined that playing the game was a thing i was going to have to do in order to play the game. guess ill just quit playing the game because i want to play the game without having to play the game.

The dungeon is far too lengthy for too little reward, I wish they would make the enemies worth something, or cut down on the trash as there is way too much.

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Originally Posted by blaise

don't tell me we actually have to play the game in order to play the game now! i never imagined that playing the game was a thing i was going to have to do in order to play the game. guess ill just quit playing the game because i want to play the game without having to play the game.

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missed the whole point of the thread once again.

This thread made me laugh... Anyone who used the speed run mechanism in the first place CLEARLY knew it was not intended to work that way. If SE wanted you to be able to turn AK into a 20-ish minute dungeon, they wouldn't have added the trash in the first place. Now I'm not saying I was against AK speed runs -- we all loved them. But now that they're gone, can I really get upset about it? No. We had a few days of fun but now it's time to play the game as intended.

Anyway, it is not impossible or super hard to gear at endgame now that AK speed runs have been 'fixed'. AK and WP give decent starting gear as well as some tomestones. Castrum gives 100 philosophy tomestones, which is now a better 'rate' than AK if you are only going to philosophy. With a good group, it will take you around 30-40 minutes to finish a Castrum run. You can get a piece every day or two if you are a casual player who only has a few hours to play each day. In the meantime, you can supplement these Castrum runs with AK or Ifrit (hard) until you are ready to tackle Garuda. There are plenty of 'options' once you start endgame. Feel free to start your relic quest, too.

Sum up the whole thread =>

1.Trash mob are too useless since level-50 players don't need exp from them, and they not drop anything useful.
2.the requirement to enter end-game dungeon is full darklight set which would require 60 runs of Amdapor Keep "per class", and this is way too boring, and the game will not be fun to require players to repeat so much of the same loop, which is why players would quit the game players not enjoy.
3.old players who always play multiple classes until now are forced to choose only one class to play, because it is too lengthy to farm full set of gear for every class they play. The time to get gear probably longer than the time they level up from 1 to 50.

way to Fix :

-make more dungeon available. If you need to repeat 60 runs per class, then SE should provide at least 10 choices of dungeons. So that it will be around 6 runs per dungeon per class.. t won't be too boring. (they could make level-50 version of all the old dungeon so that they don't have to put much work)

-Make a chance that tome could randomly drop from trash mob too, so that they are no longer useless trash.

-At this point of game, everybody is asking for the way to farm their tome. and since SE also want everybody to farm their tome too! They need to make this enjoy-able journey! not a torture fest.

P.S. a good game is something you enjoy while progress, no matter how much grinding it is required, it has to always be fun.

In FFXI era, people would've been banned/suspended for an exploit. Sure you could say it's SE fault for faulty design, but nope, ban cos you decided to utilise it, going against the TOS. Nowadays though, developers cannot adopt such harsh punishments in fear of people rage quitting like always. There is no way SE will do anything to "punish" the people at an advantage, or "reward" those that are at a disadvantage.

And onto the point of grinding 1hr or so for 40 TOM/90TOP, maybe the devs could increase the tokens given slightly or clearing trash gives additional tokens, and at the same time, reduce the weekly cap, so that the time it takes to gear that AF2 set remains the same. The problem with late-game dungeons is that they take way too long to find out that your party is not gonna make it to finish. Early dungeons take maybe 25-40min. If you fail you could easily try another attempt with another group.

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Originally Posted by Alphawins

missed the whole point of the thread once again.

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Or you missed his point, it goes two ways.
I totally agree they had too stop the speedrun exploit.
Also its a bit unfair for new players now but they had to do this.
I do think because i ran castrum alot time and a few lenghty ak runs it feels much more rewarding to get dl gear.

That being said i would really love more endgame raids/dungeons ofc.

I would agree that I wish there was some sort of variation. Grinding AK every week for mythology tomestones has already gotten pretty boring, even with the existence of speed runs. As others have said, it is going to take months of grinding that same dungeon to get enough mythology tomestones (assuming you hit the cap each week) to get a full AFv2 set for one job. Perhaps they could buff the difficulty of other high-end dungeons, or make 'hard' version of all the lower-end dungeons for alternative ways to earn mythology tomestones... Just to give us a little variety. Maybe they could even include some sort of 'reward' for finishing all level 50 dungeons in a week... some sort of bonus (100 myth tomestones for finishing AK, WP, and AV -- available once a week). That's just a suggestion. If there were more options to reach your weekly cap of mythology, people probably wouldn't be so sick of it.

All it really boils down to is trash not being worth the time. People were only doing speed runs in the first place because there's no incentive to kill trash. It feels more like a chore than a fun experience.

I would sooner farm Ifrit, Garuda and Titan Hard Modes 50 times than I would run something like a Dungeon simply because bosses are actually fun to fight and yield a reward upon completion.

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Originally Posted by Alise

Sum up the whole thread =>

1.Trash mob are too useless since level-50 players don't need exp from them, and they not drop anything useful.
2.the requirement to enter end-game dungeon is full darklight set which would require 60 runs of Amdapor Keep "per class", and this is way too boring, and the game will not be fun to require players to repeat so much of the same loop, which is why players would quit the game players not enjoy.
3.old players who always play multiple classes until now are forced to choose only one class to play, because it is too lengthy to farm full set of gear for every class they play. The time to get gear probably longer than the time they level up from 1 to 50.

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Here's a more direct, accurate sum up.

"I want everything, for very little effort, as quickly as possible."

The crafted ilvl70 gear is crap compared to darklight set. even if they have materia slots. It is still not comparable to the darklight.

The only way for it to be on par with the darklight stat is you have to craft high quality ilvl70 items. The the item required for high quality is 9pcs of the item that cost 125 philo stones.

So yeah, you cant really get ilvl70 gears without spamming ak or castrum. And sadly those have no gears cant run both because people are now requiring players to be geared in order to run with them.

Duty Finder is not an option out of 10duty finder group i had for ak only 3 managed to finish and took 1hour 15mins

so the players who just got to 50 are basically stuck. Cant run AK because they need gears and to have gears you need ak

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Originally Posted by Xiroth

Here's a more direct, accurate sum up.

"I want everything, for very little effort, as quickly as possible."

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What part of not wanting to repeat the same, unchanging formula for 60 hours for a single set of armour to allow them to play real endgame content coincides with that statement in the slightest?

Or are you actually attracted for banging your head against a wall for 60 hours?

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Originally Posted by Astralis

The crafted ilvl70 gear is crap compared to darklight set. even if they have materia slots. It is still not comparable to the darklight.

The only way for it to be on par with the darklight stat is you have to craft high quality ilvl70 items. The the item required for high quality is 9pcs of the item that cost 125 philo stones.

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Pretty much this. NQ crafted ilvl70 gear is inferior to Darklight. With melds it barely surpasses it, if not matching it. It needs to be HQ in order to be superior to Darklight. Alsoooo to those people who are like...ya, go craft your set...guess what? You either need to be rich to do so or grind Castrum, where your gear will degrade much faster then normal even on a perfect clear. There isn't anyway around this. They simply need to spread mythology to the other level 50 dungeons. 100/40 or 50 for Castrum/Prae sounds good to me. Stacking it in 1 dungeon is a very bad move.

I suppose I could have grinded FATEs last week and moved on to speed runs in AK asap before they fixed it. Instead I ran Stone Vigil, darkhold and other dungeons while leveling crafts.

I did this for several reasons:
1) Bahumut's Coil is not the name of the game, it's FFXIV ARR
2) Getting AF2 gear or even darklight is not my only goal. Checking out all the content and leveling different classes is. Oh and socializing in an MMORPG (gasp)
3) There are 5 endgame dungeons (not counting Bahumut) and 3 primals. Speedrunning AK is not the only option (even darkhold and Stone Vigil give some tokens): Aurum, AK, CM, Praetorium, WP.
4) I also need to max out my GC rank (since I didn't zerg Fates, ie. mindnumbing grind requiring no skill)
5) I really wasn't interested in tanking for a bunch of people obsessed with speed runs, skipping cutscenes, and bailing on new 50's. I'd rather tank for the people that are enjoying the game.
6) I have no interest in "finishing" any MMORPG in less than 30 days because I know developers can't possibly spit content out that fast. I don't eat the whole box of ding dongs the day I buy them either.

Sure there are other dungeons that give tokens but it isnt efficient to others who are playing woth limited time because of work and wanted to get gears asap.

Not everyone have the luxury of time to grind all those dungeons who gives minimal tokens.

Its okay if everyone is on the same boat. But no, some already maximize the benefits of speedrum and its unfair to those who havent had the chance

madness. If endgame gear is the only thing you play for then frustration and disappointment will find you in any and every MMO.

if it's challenge, then trying content without full dark light will suffice.

if it's variety, there are tons of other classes and 50 levels of content.

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Originally Posted by Astralis

Sure there are other dungeons that give tokens but it isnt efficient to others who are playing woth limited time because of work and wanted to get gears asap.

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I think what's more important concerning efficiency is the matter of playing the same repetitive dungeons 60+ times isn't so much a time issue, as it is one of tediousness. I'd be willing to put in 60 hours to get my gear and not complain about it if those 60 hours were really fun, varied, and engaging, and tested and developed my skills and understanding of the game. Instead, we get maybe one hour of fun gameplay, and 59 hours of monotony that's a flashy interface and a paycheque away from a full time job.

So it takes about 20-30min more do to a AK run now. I thought I would hate the change but was surprised that it wasn't all that boring to clear it all.

Meet some cool people and even get to teach some that was new to the place.

Average AK runs are 40-50min now with premade groups wearing ilvl 60 gear and up. If you want speed spend some time making good groups on your own server and ditch DF, a good friendlist is worth the time and effort and will save you hours of frustration from the DF randomness.

To max out Myth tokens you need like 8 runs per week which is like 1 AK run per day or 8-9 hours of game time. That is roughly a grind in my book and gives you loads of time to do other stuff even as a casual. People talking bout grinds do not understand how to play an mmo, you are not supposed to just spam dungeons all day there are myriad of other stuff to do.

I agree that a small buff in trash loot is needed so it at least gives u a sense of not just being a barrier till the next boss, i am certain S/E will balance things up as they are already doing, just give it some time.

The idea to speedrun through these dungeons was stupid and you should have known that SE will 100% stop this. AF2 gear is something you are supposed to "work" for which will take time and which will give them time to create new content. This stuff is endgame after all.

People are exploiting Castrum Meridiumum now, too. Just got into a group that did it even though not everyone wanted to do it. It's honestly ruining the game. And guess what, SE will now increase mob sizes to the dungeon, just like what they did with Amdapor. After these exploiters get their gear, they punish the ones who didn't exploit. Great. These speed runs are getting out of control and I hope SE drops the ban hammer soon.

Or they could make the content interesting and not like a second real world job.

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Originally Posted by Desolas

Or they could make the content interesting and not like a second real world job.

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It is an MMO it is supposed to take long. How else could SE then keep up with new content? It is no 10 or 3 day investment. Why do you think stuff like Guild wars 2 became less and less populated? Because you could get 100% in like 3 days if you really wanted to.

If you are thinking endgame takes too long then maybe an MMO is not the right game for you.

Endgame contents required high-level gears.

High-level gears required tomestones from Endgame contents.

WHAT?

It's like a large gate that keep slamming new lv50 players out of the game.

Personally, I don't care what everyone else Ian doing, or how they cheated for an advantage. I am here with friends to play and have fun. Be an elitist and live in moms basement all you want. I don't mind having to farm " or actually play right " to achieve things.

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Originally Posted by Darji

It is an MMO it is supposed to take long. How else could SE then keep up with new content? It is no 10 or 3 day investment.

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What is the problem with people constantly failing to understand that something taking time does not mean it has to be mind-numbingly boring?

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Why do you think stuff like Guild wars 2 became less and less populated? Because you could get 100% in like 3 days if you really wanted to.

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Or maybe it just had something to do with the weak core mechanics that the game was built upon. There's plenty of grinding based content that could last you months upon months in that game, but it's not worth doing because it's so damn boring.

People didn't leave because there was no end game content. They left because the end game content was a mindless grind. Sounds fairly familiar, doesn't it?

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If you are thinking endgame takes too long then maybe an MMO is not the right game for you.

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Says the guy who already got Darklight gear.

All the people who are happy that a boring dungeon takes longer need to ... go away or learn to read.

First of all, how does doing something fast effect you in any way? If you want to go super slow to everything, nobody is stopping you, take your time buddy, see ya when you get here! Second, to those saying “what do you do when you run out of content and have to wait months for SE to patch?” I'm not sure you saw how many classes and jobs are in the game. Even for those who beat all the content in the game now on one class, have a lot of other content to do on many other classes. So content running out isn't the issue. Don't forget chocobos take 5000 years to level. Third, nobody here is saying the run shouldn't be long. They're saying it shouldn't be boring, or that trash should be more than just a repair bill. They're saying give us more than 1 place to run things.

NOBODY is asking for free items. They're asking to have a fun enjoyable endgame grind. I don't care if in *insert game here* the grind was way longer or way harder or way more boring. This isn't that game. It shouldn't have to be as equally crappy. The pace should be picked up, not slowed down. We don't just have 1 class to grind we have many. Remember that when you talk about how the game shouldn't just hand out items. Because nobody is asking for handouts, they’re asking to have a good time. And if you’re the person who thinks that you should only have 1 thing to do and you have to it over and over and over and over for 60 hours. You should never ever be in charge of game content.

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Originally Posted by Kiteless

Says the guy who already got Darklight gear.

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I never did speedruns. I did farm runs but never speed run. Also this is AF1 Darklight stuff not 2. I am waiting right now for my group to have time to farm the keep.

Also how do you make enjoyable grind endgame content? If you do it over and over again it is always boring and to be honest. I think running to some place than die just to fight one boss is really boring to me. I like it to do stuff with people. So what if it takes 1 hour? You can only do 8 runs a week anyway.

Crafted ilvl 70 gear with materia slots is better than darklight

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Originally Posted by Onolock

Crafted ilvl 70 gear with materia slots is better than darklight

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I don't think this is applicable to tanks.

the instances and speed of obtaining tokens is right now, was broken before. It is unfair that some got ahead but the amount of effort needed to correct that would not be worth it. personally did my first AK clear today because i was adamantly opposed to the speed run "bug" and found the speed to clear to be acceptable. If your sole concern is about farming for darklight all the lvl 41+ instances give tokens and are easier to clear faster netting more tokens per hour. Sac pulling was nothing but a bug and it gave the game a tremendously "cheap" feel.

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Originally Posted by Onolock

Crafted ilvl 70 gear with materia slots is better than darklight

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While this may be true, you forget to factor in the crafting materials for these crafted parts cost more tomestones than actual darklight it self. And then on top of that you still need to get all that materia to slot.

I wish I had done more AK before the change, but I decided i'd rather play bard then warrior and leveled a 2nd class and miss out on alot of speed runs, and now it takes longer, but to be totally honest, what is the point? VERY few are really going to skip a full tier (or more) of endgame content and be in coil before 2.1, so I have plenty of time to get full darklight before tower is out. Further, tower will not need full darklight (although it be preffered) and will drop ilv80 gear to get you ready for coil.

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Originally Posted by Onolock

Crafted ilvl 70 gear with materia slots is better than darklight

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As previously stated several times HQ crafted is better then Darklight, NQ is = or BARELY better then Darklight; yet NQ requires almost 2x the investment of Tomestones to acquire and HQ isn't a certainty. so... that kinda makes Crafted inferior for most people as spending double the time for a CHANCE at slightly better gear seems silly when Darklight is more then enough(and HQ just gets you a few more secondary stats)

guys, the mobs are dropping 1gil! stop crying and enjoy the 1gil!!

Theres no challenge to AK its just long and boring. Challenge indicates that I put forth an effort to complete a task. After you've run this dungeon for about 40 times tell me if you find that its "challenging" "exciting" or even moderately interesting ...

It's possible to run the instance in 20-25 minutes (compared to the 9-11 minute runs). Certain mobs are required to unlock the gates/locks for each door. Some mobs that should probably be linked aren't, allowing for split pulls and in turn for certain bypasses. You need to abuse mob sighting restrictions. It still requires tank sac'ing.

You can't do a 3 death run, but you can get pretty close to it.

The above numbers are with people in a mix of Coil/relic+1/AF2 gear, so YMMV. Just double your previous times and that should be an accurate number to run with when you figure out the peculiarities and learn the placements of everything SE added to the instance.

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Originally Posted by Mishaela

What's the rush, gotta clear coil before your free playtime runs out? lol

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Lol ^^^^^This ^^^^^^

What's the hurry?

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Originally Posted by vRoad

It's possible to run the instance in 20-25 minutes (compared to the 9-11 minute runs). Certain mobs are required to unlock the gates/locks for each door. Some mobs that should probably be linked aren't, allowing for split pulls and in turn for certain bypasses. You need to abuse mob sighting restrictions. It still requires tank sac'ing.

You can't do a 3 death run, but you can get pretty close to it.

The above numbers are with people in a mix of Coil/relic+1/AF2 gear, so YMMV. Just double your previous times and that should be an accurate number to run with when you figure out the peculiarities and learn the placements of everything SE added to the instance.

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...nice /humblebrag.

Why would you be farming AK in that gear?