(Un)Official Arcanist/Summmoner Feedback Thread

Still looking for more constructive feedback. :)

Another skill that cones to mind is Eye to Eye. Although its effect is good, is anyone else concerned with the way it's triggered?

Because its a percent chance that mobs are debuffed, that means that, statistically speaking, there's a chance that it doesn't trigger at all, wasting your three minute cooldown.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

Some kind of burst damage. DoT is great for the big boss but when you have kill adds quickly, Sunken Temple, we need a little extra. Maybe ability that would increase dps output of either mage or pet for 20s or something.

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Raging Strikes
Rouse
Spur

I'm not reading the entire thread, so forgive me if it was posted, but some way of telling when your pet has "accepted" a command would be nice. Maybe a ! over their heads or something, so I know that my Obey/Sic/etc was acknowledged, since the icon's aren't grayed out when you can't actually give orders.

Bump for feedback.

The summoner class as a whole is a disappointment in relation to previous final fantasy games.

Summoner needs more burst dps and improvement on Ifrit-Egi

While I posted my own thread, as I wanted a canvas to paint on. I thought I would put my feed back here too.

Summoner is a great Job, love playing it. Has great utility and good dps, when I am not screwing up my rotation.
However there are things that should and dare I say need to be changed.

First off, it is far too difficult to keep track of the dots. That light green almost white count down does not help in the slightest. That color blends into all surroundings.
Either pick a different color, light a dark red, and or give us the ability to only see our own debuffs,dots on the mob. Preferably the latter.

Secondly, summoner dots need to not be counted as a debuff, except for the debuff effect of say malais. As it is summoner's dots get rolled off the mob once debuffs exceed 30 I belive. Our dots should never be rolled off, that is how we do damage. Given that Shadow Flare counts as a buff on us, you could relocate the dot effects to our buff bars. That would allow us to not only easily keep track of them but also prevent them from rolling off the mob.
Should that not be viable a "dot" bar for mobs would work as well so that they still count as attacks but cannot be rolled off. Bottom line though is keeping track of dots and them rolling off is crippling summoners.

Ruin and Ruin II. While I understand our class relies on our pets for some of our dps, that does not warrant ruin being only 80 potency. 80 potency for the mana cost is just terrible. Given that scathe for THM/BLM is 100 potency we should get at least that, but I would argue 150, since that would put it on par with Blizzard I.

Bio,Malais,Bio II. From what I can see from training dummies, Bio with potency 40 does less damage per tic than Bio II and Malais with potency 35. Is this intentional, or a bug? I would even argue bumping dot potency to 45 for the primary 3, but I do not have the numbers to back up if that would push summoners over the top or not.

Tri-Disaster. This skill is so bad I cannot understand its existence. 40 damage for 3 second cast on an encounter with a bind effect? Really? Blizzard II does more at level 18, than this skill ever does at lvl 50. Why is this skill's potency so low? I have only had use of it once, and that was today, when the party had a mess up. I would honestly be better off hitting a mob with my book than even having this on my hot bar.

Bane, great skill, but so easily wasted. It is not often that it hits all the mobs, and being at range it is hard to tell if they are within range. Example. On Garuda normal. Bane is incapable of hitting all of the feathers that she drops around herself, even though they all spawn in the same place.

Burst dps. I don't expect summoners to be the burst of the BLM. However, we lack very much in any capacity to do this. The demon wall and the feathers on Garuda are good examples of this. Those feathers and the bees need to die asap. However summoners are not the greatest party member for these tasks. All we have is maybe a Bane depending on the situation, Energy drain, Bio(not really) and Ruin II(80 potency 173 mana). But with the limited Aether stacks, make Energy Drain hard to rely on for burst and Fester needs prep to do its thing.

Cross Class skills. As a summoner we can only draw from THM and Archer. With this pool there are only 3 useful skills out of a total of 5 possible cross skills. Thunder, Raging Strikes, and Swift Cast. At 3 minute cool down raging strikes is not that useful to us, given that we are mostly dot based. Thunder is amazing as is Swift Cast for pet summon and Ressurect. But Sure Cast is pretty useless. The agro dump may be useful but I have yet to level archer to 32 to get it.
I would actually argue that they should pull from THM and CNJ like scholar. Aero is better than raging strikes any day.

Enkindle. I would argue that the cool down on this is far too long at 5 minutes. I would think 3 would be reasonable.

Commanding the pets to switch target takes far to long. It takes on average 2 seconds for the pet to start to engage the new target, more so if it is ifrit or titan.

Like I said, love this Job, the utility it offers a party is amazing. Yet it suffers from system issues.

I just did a bit of testing.

ACN lvl 50 Ifrit Tome
INT-387
Determination-291
Crit 386
Ruin II-crit 210 normal 145-160
Energy drain- Cirt 406,Normal 270-290
Shadow Flare 65-77
Dots-Bio,Bio2,Miasma,Thunder,Aero
Dot tick range 314-380 middle range of 340-355
Dot tick range with raging strikes(180s) 380-405
Dot tick range with raging strikes(180s) + internal release(60s) 414-487
Emerald Caryb Auto attack 130-145 crit 213


SMN LVL 50 Ifrit Tome
Int 394
Determination 290
Crit 415
Ruin II-151-160 crit 230
Energy Drain-282-303 crit 440
Fester-580-600 crit 900-1000
Shadow Flare-65-77
Tri-Disaster(lul)-57-60 crit 81
Dots-Bio,BioII,Miasma,Thunder
Dot tick range-285-320 middle range 315 High of 347(crit probably)
Dot tick range with raging strikes(180s) -340-386
Garuda Auto Attack-148-162 crit 250

There is not a whole lot different. Granted fester is amazing. Best thing about summoner, but as a whole the damage remains about the same, even with less int on the acn. I still love the class of course, but a bit of a disappointment really.

Bunch of kids crying on SMN.
We have substain, we have burst, high movements encounters arent a problem for us... And so what ? Crying about the pet size? Crying about habilities which already exist ?

My personal feedback : maybe give SMN a better link between his pet and himself. For example a different additionnal effect on Ruin depends on what pet is on.

My 2'cents.

I commend you for you hard work and research. Finnaly someone who's taking things seriously.
I too feel there is something is currently missing andbthe fact that summoners feel misplaced.
I agree it was an error to not add summoners to beta testing and were not properly tested.
Although I'm a big fan of summoners and love to see some big changes for them, while not making their summons huge I'd love to see the summons getting a bigger role.
But I'd be happy with an slightly scaled Egi, not to mention the dmg your Egi's do is minor at best.
Isn't it optional to just scale down our skills a bit and tune up our summons so that the dps output won't change but the summon will be our main source of dps?
That would be a decent temporarily solution, but really eventually Square Enix will have to agree that the job will need quite allot of changes and fine tuning.

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Originally Posted by Lhin

Bunch of kids crying on SMN.
We have substain, we have burst, high movements encounters arent a problem for us... And so what ? Crying about the pet size? Crying about habilities which already exist ?

My personal feedback : maybe give SMN a better link between his pet and himself. For example a different additionnal effect on Ruin depends on what pet is on.

My 2'cents.

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Yes, offering suggestion on a class that never officially got tested, is "crying".

Grow up.

Before this ball gets rolling, let me remind any posters who follow of an excerpt from my original post.

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Please keep discussion civil, and be respectful to your fellow posters.
This thread is for feedback. There are no trolls, white knights, black knights, derps, etc. here. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. It's okay to disagree, but please no attacking or provocative language.

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Whether good or bad, we've had 10 pages of comments, ideas, and suggestions. Although I personally think it could have been worded better, I do give Lhin credit for giving feedback on how to improve the class/job.

Let's keep things civil please.

as far as i can tell, the pet will either knock a mob back out of a tank's aoe or taunt off of him.

if there's no way to disable an individual pet skill, this doesn't seem like great design tbh (there may be, i just haven't seen one).

otherwise, giving arcanist a cursory look (at low lvl) on my cnj, it looks fun.

ran wanderers on my acn with an smn guildie. We have very similar gear between the two classes, since I cannot use af on acn and what not. Overall dps seemed to be higher than normal runs with both of us on smn. Also since it is not possible to parse dot dps, our only "measure" of dps came from the agro meter. Most of the time his agro was behind mine both on aoe pulls and single target. He did eek out a couple of times when fester crit. So either the dps is near same either way or, acn is higher unless fester crits.

Sadly the extent of measuring the out put to provide proper feedback on this subject is minimal.
Most I can say is what I see on the mobs when I am solo, which I posted further up in this thread.

For a dps specialization, SMN seems to fall about the very close to its base class. This is a sad turn of events.

Not that this will stop me from playing SMN, but Square needs to take a closer look at the class. Ideally though just let SMN pull from CNJ like SCH, and that can help a lot. Other things would be to increase potency of our pets, and get rid of Tri-disaster for an actually usefull skill.

Just got Summoner unlock and it feels a bit underwhelming. Ifrit-egi doesn't seem much better than Carbuncle.
Also, it would be nice if pets didn't pull aggro or were set on passive automatically when the character is mounted.

I have created a thread for this also http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...vatar-Egi-size
I want to see them big it looks nice that way ....

This was just posted on Youtube. Check it out!

Awesome info!

SMN overview

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

This was just posted on Youtube. Check it out!

Awesome info!

SMN overview

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Not really.

He doesn't use Thunder or Shadow Flare single target.

Starting shadow flare in an AoE is bad, etc.

Advocates having pet on sic.

I didn't even want to listen to the second half of the video. I don't know if he mentioned the use of Raging Strikes+Contagion(+Bane), or how Miasma II can fit in the single target rotation.

Mr. Happy actually isn't that good of a player, but he posts a lot of general information. What he says is a good start, but never take it to heart.

Another bump for constructive feedback. :)

I agree, pets need to be different. I feel like a size increase and some more detail to the models. They look sooo....just bland. Garuda for example is just green...there is like no texture or depth to the model. Titan looks like a floating chicken nugget, and Ifrit looks like he was in a serious accident and should be hooked up to an IV.

Skills need to be revamped I think as well. More pet focused, and faster pet response times. My opinion.

Gotta love all the elitist players in this thread who Thinks they are pro-gamers and know Everything about anything =) its hilarious

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Originally Posted by abesut

Gotta love all the elitist players in this thread who Thinks they are pro-gamers and know Everything about anything =) its hilarious

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elitist is an overused program word used by the government.

Just going to plug this friendly reminder here again.

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Please keep discussion civil, and be respectful to your fellow posters.
This thread is for feedback. There are no trolls, white knights, black knights, derps, etc. here. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. It's okay to disagree, but please no attacking or provocative language.

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With that said, I had another thought about something to give the Egi more utility, thereby giving players incentive to use just more than Garuda-Egi for its contagion.

Now this would be something exclusive to Titan-Egi to help distinguish itself from Topaz Carbuncle, but does anyone else think it would be interesting to see it have a skill of some sort that inflicts slow or heavy on enemies?

Branching out a bit, I think each Egi having a certain "something" (e.g. Garuda and contagion) would give Summoner a reason to do more than set their summon to auto-attack depending on the situation.

Edit:

Pandabearcat, I think you may have posted in the wrong thread. :p

Why would you use miasma II single target?

Its dot is 10 potency for 15 seconds, making it both our shortest and by far our weakest DoT.

The total potency for Miasma II is 70, less even than Ruin. Not to mention its prohibitive mana cost, makes it worse than even Ruin II when casting on the move.

So no, miasma II on single target puts you in harm's way (melee) with actually a dps loss.

Might as well take it off your bar, (which I have, ughhhhh its bad), and tridisaster if you actually want adds to die faster. Tri-disaster, btw, is a dps loss over ruin unless there are more than 3 targets. Ruin is 80 pot/2.5 sec, which is 32 pps, while tri-disaster on 3 targets is 90/3 = 30 pps. Furthermore I don't think I have to explain the benefits of focusing down one target first.

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Originally Posted by pandabearcat

Furthermore I don't think I have to explain the benefits of focusing down one target first.

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You use Miasma II in conjunction with Contagion. Have you not been reading?

It's not in harms way. There is not a single boss in this game where you can't be in melee range, and the only one you want to go in to cast, and then out, is ADS.

If you take it off your bar, you're bad, because it's also good for AoE.

There are no benefits if you don't need that single target down.

Wait really? So if the tank is taking less damage, thats a bad thing?

If you really want to nitpick about that, then why don't we add in healer damage if they don't have to heal the tank as much? I think that's more than the 3 potency a second dot we're talking about here.

50 additional potency a minute with contagion, with the fact that you also lose 10 initial potency from ruin, comes out to a 0.7 pps a second gain. I mean, I guess. You're right at least that its a slight gain over not doing it.

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Originally Posted by pandabearcat

Wait really? So if the tank is taking less damage, thats a bad thing?

If you really want to nitpick about that, then why don't we add in healer damage if they don't have to heal the tank as much? I think that's more than the 3 potency a second dot we're talking about here.

50 additional potency a minute with contagion, with the fact that you also lose 10 initial potency from ruin, comes out to a 0.7 pps a second gain. I mean, I guess. You're right at least that its a slight gain over not doing it.

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On what fight do they need to be taking less damage? Turn 1, nope. Can't AoE. Snakes are seperate. Turn 2? Nope, nothing to AoE. Turn 3? Lol? AoE through that. Turn 4? AoE spiders/rooks, single target soldiers/dreadnoughts. You don't single target the rooks down. Turn 5? AoE the beginning drakes. When snakes spawn during air phase, single target the big snake and then AoE the small ones.

Or are you talking trash? Why aren't you AoEing trash?

If you can AoE, you should be. It kills all mobs faster.

Oh, I haven't done Coil, so I don't know the mechanics of the fights.

If the AoEs are all zerg aoes and none of the targets have mechanics or do significant damage or what have you, sure.

I still don't think miasma 2 is worthwhile single target though, and thats mostly what I was trying to reconcile. Also I might have posted in the wrong thread.

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Originally Posted by pandabearcat

Oh, I haven't done Coil, so I don't know the mechanics of the fights.

If the AoEs are all zerg aoes and none of the targets have mechanics or do significant damage or what have you, sure.

I still don't think miasma 2 is worthwhile single target though, and thats mostly what I was trying to reconcile. Also I might have posted in the wrong thread.

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I think you did.

But I'm curious, what fights do you think you need to single target, when multiple targets are present, and not AoE? I never saw a fight like that.

I mean..Maybe the first boss of Cutter's cry on the first big add, but our single target IS our AoE..

Hmm, mostly thinking about AK, since thats what I've been doing the most of.

Generally, with a lower geared tank if you kill the first out of the tri-pack pulls its much easier for the healer to heal them up, esp if they again are lowered geared, so have worse AoE threat.

I never even thought about using miasma 2 for packs, it didn't seem worthwhile, and Tri-disaster is also a dps loss on 3 targets so i usually tridot contagion, shadowflare bane, then tab thunder and spam ruin.

I've had healers also spam Holy when the tank is well geared, so trash packs just melt.

EDIT: guess I will try miasma2 + contagion for add packs.

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Originally Posted by pandabearcat

snip

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Yeah, after you DoT + Bane -> Shadowflare -> Thunder each target it's better to Miasma II than it is to Ruin. You can use Miasma II first if you want more damage ticking on each mob before you apply thunder, too.

That said for AK, no matter what gear level I haven't had someone that could consistently hold AoE aggro off throughout a whole run. So I'm normally tanking 1 mob of the pack which lightens the load on lower geared tanks. Sometimes the healers are lower geared and can't keep us both up, so I heal myself because all my AoE is already out there anyways.

My only real issue is that I first went Scholar but now because my FC is full of healers I've started the switch to Summoner. I like both classes but it sucks that I've already went and got my Scholar relic weapon. Wish there was a way to do the quest again as a Summoner. I understand that they share classes and all that but still makes me sad =(

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Originally Posted by SublimeStylee

My only real issue is that I first went Scholar but now because my FC is full of healers I've started the switch to Summoner. I like both classes but it sucks that I've already went and got my Scholar relic weapon. Wish there was a way to do the quest again as a Summoner. I understand that they share classes and all that but still makes me sad =(

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Wait, you can't do it as a SMN?

Why not? When you're SMN does he just not have the quest?

He does. I have my relic+1 on summoner and my relic on scholar. I also will have a relic on BLM so he must have missed the fact that he needs to be switched to the job he wants the relic for in order for the relic quest to be available from the NPC.

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Originally Posted by Crescent_Dusk

He does. I have my relic+1 on summoner and my relic on scholar. I also will have a relic on BLM so he must have missed the fact that he needs to be switched to the job he wants the relic for in order for the relic quest to be available from the NPC.

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Oops! Yeah I was looking in Vesper Bay to start the quest as a Summoner, you just go straight to Gerolt to get it again.

Endgame. Use Garuda or Ifrit?

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Originally Posted by Deelo

Endgame. Use Garuda or Ifrit?

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Garuda.

Never use ifrit, ever.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-Summons/page2

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Originally Posted by Kevee

Garuda.

Never use ifrit, ever.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-Summons/page2

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Thought so, thanks!

Another push for constructive feedback. :)