Why do people want solo play in an MMORPG?

I am a huge solo-er so I can give you some perspective.

I started FFXI soon after launch and was super-social, super-party, super-LS all the time. I would do storyline/sky/sea quests for 8 hours in a row or party for the same amount of time, had a static, etc. etc. It was a blast. But at the same time it was incredibly draining and did not make the people in my Real Life very happy with me sometimes.

When my son was born I took a permanent break from FFXI. I quit kabisa. It was liberating and the right thing to do for my family. Three years later, after my daughter was born, I felt like getting back into ffxi but not like before. I wanted some constraints.

The constraints were: 1) no xp partying 2) no questing/storyline blah blah until after bedtime 3) solo if possible

I chose Beastmaster and following those rules became a great BST. No I did not have Relic anything or Nyzul stuff but I poured my time into getting any soloable/buyable equipment I could like Tsar's Egg, Stout Wristbands, Lyracists Gonnelle, Spurrer Beret (favorite solo), Volunteer's Nails (2nd favorite), etc.

I list those pieces because getting them all on my own, including some of the prereq's leading up to them, was a real accomplishment. If you've ever (pre abyssea) solo'ed Morielle Mortelle or tried to figure out the spawn time of Merrow No.5 you'll know what I'm talking about. I would occasionally duo or trio with other BSTs.

Eventually I solo'd my WHM (as whm/bst) to 75 which was almost more fun than BST by itself. Then I moved to BLU/BST, etc. I solo'd full merits on my BST, mainly killing hundreds of Doom Warlocks and netting millions of gil selling Blizzaga III on the AH. Such great memories! :D

With FFXIV I was hoping for a similar experience but it fell hugely flat. Soloing was easy but only because of Guildleve's and company leve's not because of any strategy on my part. Anyone could solo with no effort. I eventually partied a few times just to get those last levels to 50 because you go basically get them in a few hours from a SB party.

However the party grind from instances made me sick. I watched people in my LS do Ifrit, Shiva, Moogle, CC, etc. HUNDREDS of times with crap drops. This did not look like fun to me. And because of the monotony, people were expected to join these grind-parties any time they were online because of the ridiculous amount of time it took to get anything. Out of the prime fights I did Ifrit one time and got 2 doo-dads. I remember being a total instance noob, I thought each totem could be exchanged for one weapon. When someone told me I needed TEN, I was like @#%(*&@#^???? SCREW THAT! Never went back and I was plenty happy.

The few times I did eventually party after hours was for AF and none of the experiences were good. Hours wasted waiting for people and doing 3 or 4 different fights until it was 3-4 hours past my bedtime and I needed to get up for work in 3 hours. I got all my AF but felt like it was not worth it. I turned to crafting. During the last couple months of FFXIV I got all my equipment crafts to 50 except blacksmith which I felt like I should save for 2.0 so I have at least one craft to experience the new system with.

I'm looking forward to way more solo activities, hopeful that some of the instance requirements will be 1-2 players. Most of all I'm looking forward to the auto-party feature so I can do ONE run of Ifrit and quit without feeling bad - or without waiting hours for people to join. I just don't have the time for that anymore, I have a family of SIX to take care of!

I think it's a matter of difficulty catching up to the crowd. Sure, for the most part it's easy to catch up to people in XI, but if you want full +1 or +2 sets you need tons of help. Granted that was never supposed to be easy, but the herds have mostly moved on to Voidwatch and Neo-Nyzul and stuff.

Short and sweet...

You like how the game plays, but people can be assholes.

Its not the playing in a party or a group I dont like. Its the mentality of most of the people in a random group and the waiting literally for hours for a party just to progress your character, (these can change if you join a LS/FC and get to know people). Like others have mentioned, Some of us have kids (I have 4), household duties to do, might have interruptions, and these things are "intolerable" in party play so its nice to be able to pop in when you have some downtime, Progress your character a little so you don't lag woefully behind, be able to duck out to deal with certain things, then spend your day off going hardcore with the rest of the LS.

I honestly must apologize that for myself, and those like me, I do want to be able to play solo for SOME things. I want the option to be able to pop on with rested exp, pound out a few levequests, gain a level then log off, knowing that I can just go do it. But I also want group things that we need to do to progress. There needs to be a balance. Video Games made it big because of the people who grew up in the 80's and 90's. 30 years later, many of us still enjoy games but lack the situations that allow us to sit there for hours on end every day.

My biggest beef with party play that i've experienced is for the most part other players would rather berate you then assist you. If you want to make more people desire the party aspect of a game you need to make it more appealing, but that onus is on the individual themselves. For every 10 nice players you run into there's still that one asshat talking shit that turns people off. Unfortunately there is no way to control that effectively, yet....

The tone of the OP says to me that people like me are not welcome. "Just go play offline and leave the MMO to the elite. We need a challenge and want to play with huge groups but only if you know what you are doing. We wont have these things if you insist on whining for the ability to play solo, even to a point. Solo players ruined this genre." This may be over exaggerating the actual OP but the sentiment is one i see expressed a lot when this topic is brought up.

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Originally Posted by ZakarnRosewood

The tone of the OP says to me that people like me are not welcome. "Just go play offline and leave the MMO to the elite. We need a challenge and want to play with huge groups but only if you know what you are doing. We wont have these things if you insist on whining for the ability to play solo, even to a point. Solo players ruined this genre." This may be over exaggerating the actual OP but the sentiment is one i see expressed a lot when this topic is brought up.

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No, I would like to have a balance of group and solo play. ( even I want to solo from time to time). I just don't want the same thing happening, where in 1.0 all I ever did majority of the time was solo ( till Primals and Dungeons came along) but even that doing that 50 times over got really old really fast. The content was hella fun, but repeating the same things throughout the year did get boring. ( and I actually did stop for 2 weeks at 1 point because of the repetitiveness.)

I think the reasoning is so you can still play the game long after the severs are ended so you can get all the content you might have missed. Another reason might be to play when you do not have access to the internet like on the plane or long rides on the train.

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Originally Posted by Quesse

Big post about soloing

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I've been recently considering maybe I should take the same approach as you and maybe try to not get involved with the endgame stuff this time around. I'd probably be far happier just playing with a friend or two whenever they're on and just do things by myself, while grouping up with random people to get the mandatory grouping stuff done.

For myself, it's more about putting my skills to the test. Party play doesn't really allow you to find your limits as a player quite like solo play does.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

No, I would like to have a balance of group and solo play. ( even I want to solo from time to time). I just don't want the same thing happening, where in 1.0 all I ever did majority of the time was solo ( till Primals and Dungeons came along) but even that doing that 50 times over got really old really fast. The content was hella fun, but repeating the same things throughout the year did get boring. ( and I actually did stop for 2 weeks at 1 point because of the repetitiveness.)

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I really think people should stop referring to 1.0 as a meter stick. It was a flop from the start, SE acknowledged that and even restructured their teams then rebuilt the game. The leveling curve was ridiculous in 1.0, so was some of the lame dialogue, and poor quest objectives. But they still managed to take that broken POS and make it playable by the end. I said it in another post but they did all this while rebuilding, they really could/should have just closed it down to focus on the rebuild instead of wasting resources on a version of the game that will be completely scrapped.

I too want a balance, and i think we will get it. In most RPG's quests, for the most part, guide you though the mechanics of a game as much as they guide you through the story. Take "Ni No Kuni" the quests and such gradually (maybe a little slow) walk you through all the features of playing. I can imagine ARR doing something like this. Taking us solo up to a point, showing us then how to change jobs, how to cross skill, guide us to a dungeon, explain how to gather groups, a quest to show us how FATE works, etc and so on until we are near end game where most quests require a group or at least a light party to complete.

Not all quests have to be solo quests, correct? That one thought right there should ease the worries of many who are opposed to the quests...

Spending time finding 8 players with specific jobs and all know what the hell they are doing already for a primal or dungeon runs, is bullshit in my imo. We spend more time preparing for a dam event then actually doing it.

There should be a difficulty setting on the content based on how many players participate in the event, even if it is solo. Badass players who can find 8 specific players so easy should get the bonus of a higher drop rate or even multiple drops of the same thing, instead of wasting weeks or months of time too only see 1 @#$%ing piece of armor drop for 1 person out of 8. SE really needs feedback on this stupid @#$%.

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Originally Posted by Orophin

I've been recently considering maybe I should take the same approach as you and maybe try to not get involved with the endgame stuff this time around. I'd probably be far happier just playing with a friend or two whenever they're on and just do things by myself, while grouping up with random people to get the mandatory grouping stuff done.

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I've played MMOs in my free time for many years and for me the biggest amount of pleasure has come from hanging with a really small group, like 2~4 people (close friends, husband etc) and just knocking out content where we could. A lot of fights were really fun and challenging and I hope that I can experience the same thing in 2.0.
Bigger groups seem to breed animosity; drops become such a cause of drama it's not even funny><.
It's like throwing a raw steak to a pack of starving dogs and expecting them to share. Totally not worth the trouble D:

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Originally Posted by Starlord

I just don't get it, MMORPG stands for Massive Multiplayer Role Playing Game. Some people want the game to base around solo play, ( which was mostly 1.0 and at some points did get frustrating to just do everything by myself.)

Do they even know what an MMO is? This is just a little gripe that I been having everytime the subject arises.

Going to get bread now to make Sausage Sandwiches!

Example:



Source: http://www.facebook.com/FinalFantasyXIV?fref=ts

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Even in an MMO, sometimes people don't have the time to play with other players. So they try to do things solo so they can just enjoy the game alone which what time they have. Doesn't mean they don't want to interact. Just that they want some things to do when they don't have the desired time to play with others.

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Originally Posted by Radacci

right. i'd be fine with more forced party for whatever, if it would be quick and easy to join one, and you wouldn't have to stress about ruining the party, cause they could find new member in a min. But that's pretty much impossible, since there's so many maps, and so much content; everyone is spread out to much.

on the other hand it annoys me when i'm in some area, where some other people are on same quest mobs, and i invite them to party, and they refuse...i mean really? why fight over the mobs?

I think 1.0 was fine. party xp was faster, so there was incentive to party, but it wasn't forced on you; i think that's good enough.

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When exp chains came out, I capped every job that was not already 50, 1 job every day. If you found this to be good leveling, your insane.

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Originally Posted by finiteHP

The only things that I'm against requiring parties are the storyline and to a lesser extent levelling. Reason I'm against partying for storyline content is that once people get past a fight, they never seem to want to do it again. I was stuck on baby Ifrit for months. Partly this is my fault for not coming back until May, but no one wanted to come kill him because they were all on 'United We Stand' or 'To Kill a Raven'. When I got to 'United We Stand', people that were 'To Kill a Raven' didn't want to help because "I don't need that anymore." Partying to beat a mission at the level it's designed for is fine, but if I'm level 50 and can solo baby Ifrit without breaking a sweat, I should be required to beg people to come so that we can kill him in a matter of seconds. As for requiring a party to level, there is no such thing. It's always possible to find some way to level solo if you try ahrd enough.

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Though we werent on the same server, im likely one of the people to not help you... but guess why? Its not to be mean, but because you quit the game and refuse to be sociable like the rest of the people here defending solo play over group. If you do not know people, and refuse to play with them because drama "might" happen, I will not help you, I do not repeat content I have already completed and likely spent a long time trying to figure the content out for anyone to come in and want carried. The fact that people have maby 2hrs a day means nothing to me, these people you feel should be basically forced to help might also have -2hrs to play, and you want them to spend 30min's of that time helping a complete stranger... who wants nothing to do with them.

Even in RL, friends have drama, its part of life, if people want nothing but solo content its called an RPG (if you really want to just play solo and talk to people, open facebook while you play instead of turning mmo's into facebook). These are the same excuses to turn to regional servers and why I will likely no longer see all of my JP/Korean friends even though I speak neither of those languages. People who claim they are not racisist advocated that they were tired of seeing "squiggles" on their screens and they should all be put on their own servers like some sort of internment camp during WWII or something. Other peoples inability to communicate with people from a different culture... and from what ive read so far in this thread, many of you cannot communicate with people in general is now effecting me in a very big way.

Solo content is perfectly fine, but never should it be more prevalent than group content. In FF11 I used to solo alot, things like serket/bune/KA... lots of NM's, that most would bring 3+ people to, you could solo, you just couldnt solo and suck at the same time. Solo content in FF11 generally did not involve progression through the story, there was plenty of it, but most of it was a means to make fast/large money to progress your characters gear.

Ive been trying to get on these forums less and less because the community is so screwed up and im sure this post is going to get crap because im being blunt... but people constantly on here every single day working to literally change what a genre of gaming is because they want to play group content without every talking to people is just incredible.

Sometimes I don't want to be bothered with people or gathering a group to do something. So I love having the option of solo content. However I still love those moments when a group of strangers work together to finish a goal. So I'm one of those 50/50 people. I just like options.

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Originally Posted by Nix

I've played MMOs in my free time for many years and for me the biggest amount of pleasure has come from hanging with a really small group, like 2~4 people (close friends, husband etc) and just knocking out content where we could. A lot of fights were really fun and challenging and I hope that I can experience the same thing in 2.0.
Bigger groups seem to breed animosity; drops become such a cause of drama it's not even funny><.
It's like throwing a raw steak to a pack of starving dogs and expecting them to share. Totally not worth the trouble D:

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I have seen many post like yours, and that is actually a very sad thing, ive watched many LS's from FF11 and FF14 and guilds from other games break over drops but the answer is kinda this... "Evil will prevail when good men do nothing", its like trying to find a non-profit company that truely does good for the world in RL, the people that get ahead are usually the same people that would replace employees with machines as soon as it becomes available, the fact that all of this is true is not because of the content, its because not enough of these people who get screwed over stand back up and do the job better.

The LS im in never has this problem luckily... we use points/attendance to do drops, there in no "seniority" even for the leader, our leader in FF11 was literally the gimpest member out of our 50ish members, he passed the chance to get I think 4 relics, when people joined us they literally never heard of him, they thought our main tank was the leader of the LS (including me when I joined).

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Originally Posted by ZakarnRosewood

"Just go play offline and leave the MMO to the elite. We need a challenge and want to play with huge groups but only if you know what you are doing. We wont have these things if you insist on whining for the ability to play solo, even to a point. Solo players ruined this genre." This may be over exaggerating the actual OP but the sentiment is one i see expressed a lot when this topic is brought up.

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And then this guy comes along and proves my point about the elitist mindset.

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Originally Posted by Jeronlmo

Though we werent on the same server, im likely one of the people to not help you... but guess why? Its not to be mean, but because you quit the game and refuse to be sociable like the rest of the people here defending solo play over group. If you do not know people, and refuse to play with them because drama "might" happen, I will not help you, I do not repeat content I have already completed and likely spent a long time trying to figure the content out for anyone to come in and want carried. The fact that people have maby 2hrs a day means nothing to me, these people you feel should be basically forced to help might also have -2hrs to play, and you want them to spend 30min's of that time helping a complete stranger... who wants nothing to do with them.

Even in RL, friends have drama, its part of life, if people want nothing but solo content its called an RPG (if you really want to just play solo and talk to people, open facebook while you play instead of turning mmo's into facebook). These are the same excuses to turn to regional servers and why I will likely no longer see all of my JP/Korean friends even though I speak neither of those languages. People who claim they are not racisist advocated that they were tired of seeing "squiggles" on their screens and they should all be put on their own servers like some sort of internment camp during WWII or something. Other peoples inability to communicate with people from a different culture... and from what ive read so far in this thread, many of you cannot communicate with people in general is now effecting me in a very big way.

Solo content is perfectly fine, but never should it be more prevalent than group content. In FF11 I used to solo alot, things like serket/bune/KA... lots of NM's, that most would bring 3+ people to, you could solo, you just couldnt solo and suck at the same time. Solo content in FF11 generally did not involve progression through the story, there was plenty of it, but most of it was a means to make fast/large money to progress your characters gear.

Ive been trying to get on these forums less and less because the community is so screwed up and im sure this post is going to get crap because im being blunt... but people constantly on here every single day working to literally change what a genre of gaming is because they want to play group content without every talking to people is just incredible.

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These people should just play offline games if soloing everything is what they want.

I keep thinking that people with that mindset is just playing the wrong genre and trying to like it. And yes, this is indeed ruining this genre since many of it's elements need to be made much more simple and easier in order for it to be soloable.

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Originally Posted by Klefth

These people should just play offline games if soloing everything is what they want.

I keep thinking that people with that mindset is just playing the wrong genre and trying to like it.

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Except they arent playing the wrong genre. Some people like both, the option to do either in the same world (you cant have that in an offline game), some people like to play online in a live world (you cant have that in an offline game).

Obviously by SE actions they are going semi-ly this direction. They have group content, they have solo content.

Perhaps you are playing the wrong game. (I hate it when people say this.. -_-)

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Originally Posted by Jeronlmo

its because not enough of these people who get screwed over stand back up and do better.

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This is untrue - I have been in a few groups where the people in it were previously spurned by lootwhores and things go great for a while until a new shiny drop comes in that they really want... Then it's to hell with morals and the high road, they end up no better than the people they tried to get away from.

You're lucky your LS doesn't have problems, I've been in a few where they did points and again, was fair for a while until the leader started favoring friends and telling people they were ineligible.

Case point: My husband and I were in a limbus group that ran late on a wednesday and early evening on a sunday. We were both eligible for drops but hadn't lotted anything for 6+ months (hell, the only drops we did get from ultima + omega were 'junk', the headpieces and only because we were lucky enough to win a freelot.)

My husband started a class that required him to take out 2 sundays a month for classwork + meetings (our weekends got ganked a little because we both work during the week so any other free time was used for studying and gaming if we could). Loot rules for the shell stated that he had to be 75% attendance and above to lot, he was at 75% so no harm right?
Wrong.
A week or so before homam pants dropped (the drop he was listed for), the LS leader had a good friend join the shell. He wanted homam pants too (surprise!). They changed the loot rules on the day that they dropped (coincidentally, a Sunday) so that wednesday's attendance and sundays attendance would be calculated separately for some stupid reason. This put my husband at 50% attendance, so he couldn't lot the pants he'd worked so hard for and instead they went to LS leader's new friend. Needless to say we found another group sharpish... but no system is immune from greed.

People are are rude and I enjoy solo play to enjoy the game at my own pace.

The ability to solo in a mmo = very good thing.

Focus on soloing throughout the game = wrong genre and very bad idea.

Solo only/solo focused leveling and party play for dungeons/endgame only = very bad idea, Western mmo mentality which needs to die

Solo leveling, group leveling, low man instance, large alliance instance, solo instance, group open world, solo open world throughout the whole game = the way it should be



I understand some people like soloing more then group play, but the people who want to only solo have no business playing mmos. It would be like people who hate shooters wanting call of duty to be a racing game or football game. MMOs are multiplayer games, and multiplayer means playing together.... This mentality of MMO = alot of people playing solo in the same world is really really wrong.

Because, often times even though you are on a server full of people those same people are not interested in actually helping you. Or your on for only a few minutes, but do not want to take all the time to form a party.

My number one reason for playing by myself is, I find social interactions with other players take more time and effort than just doing it myself. Coordination with other players can be cumbersome at times, especially if they don't listen, is a 10 year old, or has the attention span of a fly!

While I'm not against social play and parties, I have to be in the mood to do so or I will not play nice with others. ;)
I'm sure many other players feel the same way.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Except they arent playing the wrong genre. Some people like both, the option to do either in the same world (you cant have that in an offline game), some people like to play online in a live world (you cant have that in an offline game).

Obviously by SE actions they are going semi-ly this direction. They have group content, they have solo content.

Perhaps you are playing the wrong game. (I hate it when people say this.. -_-)

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Thanks Shogun, There is nothing in the acronym MMORPG that requires you party up or be forced into playing with others. Massive - lots of players. Multiplayer - more than one person playing at once. Online - Over a network connection. Role Playing Game - to take on the persona of a character and play that role in a fantasy setting.

My favorite definition for MMORPG is Mostly Men Online Role Playing Girls.

Soloing and grouping are both essential to a game like FFXIV. Soloing is essential becuase it allows you to complete things and advance inlevels when you have limited time to play. While grouping allows you to make new friends and accomplish harder content. I enjoy both and was lucky enough to have a linkshell that did require you to be on at a certain time and force you to participate or be fround on. Which can be a turn of to many.

Solo play is liked by many because it is often hard to find groups for content if you are limited in time to play. Once again i was lucky to have a amazing linkshell that would help those out who had fallen behind.

With out soling i think FFXIV would easily lose over half its player base, so i would say it is essential to have a well rounded and populated game!

""... I will not help you, I do not repeat content I have already completed and likely spent a long time trying to figure the content out for anyone to come in and want carried. The fact that people have maby 2hrs a day means nothing to me, these people you feel should be basically forced to help might also have -2hrs to play, and you want them to spend 30min's of that time helping a complete stranger... who wants nothing to do with them.""
Even in RL, friends have drama, its part of life, if people want nothing but solo content its called an RPG (if you really want to just play solo and talk to people, open facebook while you play instead of turning mmo's into facebook). These are the same excuses to turn to regional servers and why I will likely no longer see all of my JP/Korean friends even way.

to this poster i say
Thats a rather mean spirited attitude to take. These games are about helping each other when we need it, regardless of how much interaction you have with a player. You did your content great, but remember you needed the help of 7 other players to do that content, some of could have already completed that content. If they'd had the same attitude as you then youd have left 1.0 having missed out on events such as Primal battles, Castrum Nova, Rivenroad etc due to them being unwilling to help. Whats the problem if your standing round bored in Uldah or wherever and your not doing much to going helping out random people. All that should be expected for your help is a thank you, not lifelong gratitude. I do understand your time is your own but be a better player, pass on your knowledge to those who dont know how content is done, or havent played the game as long, or even attempt a couple of runs just to give people an idea. It shouldnt just be "well ive got my weapon/armour of choice im not going back to that content". Wheres the harm in helping out now and again. You never know, that person who plays solo might end up being a good friend in game and able to help you out in other ways. For example take someone who's never really been bothered with DOW/DOM and just stuck to crafting, they might need help getting through the level 25 dungeon because they want a chocobo to help with travelling...you take time to help them, and they think what a nice guy im gonna offer to do his melding requests. Swings and roundabouts.

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Originally Posted by ZakarnRosewood

And then this guy comes along and proves my point about the elitist mindset.

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It has nothing to do with being elite, 100% nothing, and nowhere in my post did it say anything from your previous quote. Casuals are 100% required in MMO's to have a functioning economy. Casuals should just stop trying to dumb down content so the game can be completed by them (I am not refering to the story line, all should complete that).

These "Elitest" you hate so much that played FF11 endlessly, never truely beat the game, thats the point, its what defines an MMO for us, you just cant win, the fact is if you can complete a game by playing 1-2hrs a day, other people playing will have nothing to do.

The idea of winning a game by playing 1-2hrs a day is what makes "dailies" start showing up, gimpy repeatable quest your virtually forced to do every day. Its actually almost brilliant on the gaming companies side... an entire community that barely logs on yet its just enough so they can be counted as daily active subs when they advertise their game, less server maint, smaller teams to upkeep the game, content only needing to be created to last 1-2hrs/day.

Trying to compare a game like FF11 going to FF14 or WoW or something is just sad it what it actually takes from the developers, FF11 the content lasted years and people loved it, as in 10yrs of planning to keep gear relevant and to keep these people who never stop playing always busy, the content never ended because it was well designed for everyone.

Yes! We need the game to attract a huge population so we can get on to solo everything anyway!

Why bother with the huge population then? Why bother with the multiplayer aspect of the game which should be the main focus in this genre? Why bother making it online anyway? So you can simply see other people running around? So you can show off your "hard earned" gear in a town?

Why even play a massively multiplayer online game if all you want is soloing? There's plenty of RPGs out there for that. Grab an elder's scrolls game if all you want is questing and getting 1337 lootz on your own. ._.

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Originally Posted by Klefth

Yes! We need the game to attract a huge population so we can get on to solo everything anyway!

Why bother with the huge population then? Why bother with the multiplayer aspect of the game which should be the main focus in this genre? Why bother making it online anyway? So you can simply see other people running around? So you can show off your "hard earned" gear in a town?

Why even play a massively multiplayer online game if all you want is soloing? There's plenty of RPGs out there for that. Grab an elder's scrolls game if all you want is questing and getting 1337 lootz on your own. ._.

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No one said anything about 'everything solo', but the game should cater to both those who like the solo grind and then keep higher tier stuff for people that like to group.
I don't think anything like Garuda weapons, relics and the like, even white ravens should be attainable solo, a line has to be drawn; but at the same time, plodding on through storyline and lore based things shouldn't force an 8man group on you.

There is some misconception that solo = easy. Albeit if you have content that has no requirement (solo or party) you may find doing quests designed for solo play easy in a party or quests designed for a party hard solo (you can get around this of course through systems that force values).

However again, solo != easy. That is fault to the designers and not fault to the idea itself. You can make extremely difficult solo content, or really easy.

I dont really care how difficult the content is so long as the quality of work required and the amount of work itself matches the reward.

1.0 slow solo leveling was not the way to go at least when I played, rather you could get a party to max level in a day just by powerleveling (I avoided most of these because I wanted to level my characters once the game got better - so I only have 3 level 50s, and I focused small income on one). So in this case you could argue group play is really easy. (obviously this is a bad argument, but its akin to people saying solo = easy, so the idea is not the problem its the execution of the idea that was).

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Originally Posted by Klefth

Yes! We need the game to attract a huge population so we can get on to solo everything anyway!

Why bother with the huge population then? Why bother with the multiplayer aspect of the game which should be the main focus in this genre? Why bother making it online anyway? So you can simply see other people running around? So you can show off your "hard earned" gear in a town?

Why even play a massively multiplayer online game if all you want is soloing? There's plenty of RPGs out there for that. Grab an elder's scrolls game if all you want is questing and getting 1337 lootz on your own. ._.

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:Sigh:

Enjoy your slippery slope. :|

Soloing, or being able to have a way to handle some( not all) content on your own keeps people with something to do, and goals to reach for, when they aren't going to spend 3-4 hours with a 'Looking for Party" marker on their heads.

Besides, crafting's something we all do. Convincing an exp party to frolic to a specific mob I want is hardly feasible, or possible.

And yes, there's also knowing "I can take down mobs above my level/the local Ixali Badasses like a boss". Sue me.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

There is some misconception that solo = easy. Albiet if you have content that has no requirement (solo or party) you may find doing quests designed for solo play easy in a party or quests designed for a party hard solo.

However again, solo != easy. That is fault to the designers and not fault to the idea itself. You can make extremely difficult solo content, or really easy.

I dont really care how difficult the content is so long as the quality of work and the work itself matches the reward.

(1.0 solo leveling was not the way to go at least when I played, rather you could get a party to max level in a day just by powerleveling (I avoided most of these because I wanted to level my characters once the game got better - so I only have 3 level 50s, and I focused small income on one))

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I echo you completely! I would LOVE for solo, challenging content instead of Solo sneeze-and-the-mob-dies content.

I'm not sure why people are taking "I personally like soloing" as "OMG GET RID OF ALL MULTIPLAYER CONTENT!!! EVERYONE SHOULD SOLO!!!"

Why do you all care so much how others chose to play the game? Is them soloing negatively affecting your parties? No? Then stop telling people they are "playing the wrong game" and "ruining the game".

There needs to be a balance, obviously. And it seems ARR is going to be quite balanced for party and solo content. If someone decides they only want to do solo content... well I don't see why that is such a big deal to anyone else. It DOES make you sound elitist. Your way of playing isn't the only way.

I love when I can do things in groups and have a good time but also enjoy being able to do the same thing alone even if at a slower rate.

There have been many of times I have been in a place alone in an MMO trying to accomplish something and someone says "What are you up to?" and from that point you are now partied with someone, then someone else joins, and next thing you know you have a full group doing something that you never intended to group for and having a good time. At the same time no one would care what I'm doing and I continued to solo and still manage to get something accomplished. However neither of those would have been possible if I wouldn't have been able to start it solo to begin with, it would have been me asking around for help or looking for people to join and I don't enjoy sitting around.

I love MMOs for the massive community but I also being able to do something while waiting to enjoy the massive community.

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Originally Posted by Nix

No one said anything about 'everything solo', but the game should cater to both those who like the solo grind and then keep higher tier stuff for people that like to group.
I don't think anything like Garuda weapons, relics and the like, even white ravens should be attainable solo, a line has to be drawn; but at the same time, plodding on through storyline and lore based things shouldn't force an 8man group on you.

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I wouldn't mind "Story missions with Boss fights to be with a Light/Full Party" Why call it a "boss" if you just going to kill his wimpy behind solo style? The in-between quests should be soloable, but Boss fights should at the very least be a light party ( 4 players)

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Originally Posted by Undrentide

to this poster i say
Thats a rather mean spirited attitude to take. These games are about helping each other when we need it, regardless of how much interaction you have with a player. You did your content great, but remember you needed the help of 7 other players to do that content, some of could have already completed that content. If they'd had the same attitude as you then youd have left 1.0 having missed out on events such as Primal battles, Castrum Nova, Rivenroad etc due to them being unwilling to help. Whats the problem if your standing round bored in Uldah or wherever and your not doing much to going helping out random people. All that should be expected for your help is a thank you, not lifelong gratitude. I do understand your time is your own but be a better player, pass on your knowledge to those who dont know how content is done, or havent played the game as long, or even attempt a couple of runs just to give people an idea. It shouldnt just be "well ive got my weapon/armour of choice im not going back to that content". Wheres the harm in helping out now and again. You never know, that person who plays solo might end up being a good friend in game and able to help you out in other ways. For example take someone who's never really been bothered with DOW/DOM and just stuck to crafting, they might need help getting through the level 25 dungeon because they want a chocobo to help with travelling...you take time to help them, and they think what a nice guy im gonna offer to do his melding requests. Swings and roundabouts.

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The people I do content with, want something to do with me, they are social friends/LS members, the people you are trying to defend are the people saying they want to only solo ever, and complaining that people refuse to help them do things that are not solo. These people cannot get people to help them because they ignore these same people until they need help then throw them under the bus again.

Its like a friend that only calls you when they want to borrow money... exact same thing... you dump those "friends". Bad people are bad people.

I havnt read every post (and im not going to) but ive read the first 2 pages

I have been playing MMORPGs for almost 15 years, my first encounter with an almost entirely solo MMO was Guild Wars. I played that game for about 2 months and quit. Why? No sense of accomplishment. The reason alot of people WANT a Solo RPG is because they are usually not very good at the game or simply lack the time needed to invest into the game to be good. This brings us to the reason so many MMO's lately have been failing. Soloing sucks. The MAJORITY (notice the wordage here) of people that play an MMO want to play with other people, if you make the game too easy (aka guild wars) then people will finish the game too quickly and then quit. The MINORITY (again, notice the wordage) of the player base want a solo heavy game, and while that is all fine and dandy it will (and has) ruined many games (guild wars being the exception). Nowaday's developers are trying to make money rather than trying to make a great game. FFXI was the last truely good MMORPG in my opinion because when they made it they didn't care what people thought about it, they didnt care what the players said they wanted, they made the game they wanted to make which is what allowed them to make a good strong core game. Even though FFXI had almost no solo content for several years the game thrived. Why? Because the people that couldnt handle it or didnt have time to handle it left the game. Leaving behind only the people that could party and devote large amounts of time to the game stayed, and others that had similar interests saw this and joined the game. When you try to make everyone happy, NO ONE will be truely happy. If you try to make a game that caters to both solo players and hardcore players well then you're just going to end up with a game that has a low lvl cap that is easily reached an a week or 2 (guild wars 2, took me 1 week to reach max lvl on my first character), and while this will keep the casuals happy, the hardcore people will hate it. So how do you make the hardcore people happy? Endgame. So now we have to make an endgame gear treadmill. And while I personally LIKE the treadmill (it keeps me busy), the casuals will hate it. You can't make everyone happy, don't bother trying. Make the game YOU want to make, if you do that and do it well, the game will be successfull.

Just my 2 cents. Carry on folks.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

...but Boss fights should at the very least be a light party ( 4 players)

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I enjoy party content very much, but to the above quote:

Why?

Challenging, fun and satisfying boss battles existed long before MMORPGs. I see no rule that states things must be as you say the should be.

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Originally Posted by valetarkus

I think the biggest problem is how long and how much time you have to waste sometimes just to form a party. I waited 3 hours to get in a full party once, i was really annoyed, then after like a couple fights some peeps were like, "oh it's getting late, gotta go." killing the exp chain/raid/quest/whatever. I love partying! Love the social stuff, but lesbihonest, sometimes party formations can be a b****. Hopefully this will change in 2.0 though.

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You do not need to worry. In 2.0 there is a content finder where finding a party for a specific dungeon is very easy apparently. Although I would kind of miss having to walk to the entrance of the dungeon rather than get teleported to it automatically. In fact they should make it so you have to get to the entrance of dungeon before being able to use it in content finder.

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Originally Posted by Alerith

I enjoy party content very much, but to the above quote:

Why?

Challenging, fun and satisfying boss battles existed long before MMORPGs. I see no rule that states things must be as you say the should be.

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Boss fights in off-line games ( at least in FF games) other people were with you killing a Boss. Why call it a boss if you do it by yourself? Be no different than killing a marmot -.-.

For the record, I dont think anyone who likes/wants solo play has ever wanted to eliminate the party play or make it a solo only/heavy game. I just dont want it to be like FFXI was in its early days, and I dont want it like WoW was in its later years (I soloed all the way to end game) I think what we all want is a nice balance through the early stages of the game with the high end rewards and end game content to be more focused on party play.

Its just a straw man argument people seem to build up around solo play and what they think it will do and what they think we want.