Idea: Allowing Spectators in Dungeons

We can also add spectator mode to colosseum for the same reasons as above... It can be also be a really good show if they offer a once a month competition via the colosseum...

This thread should really get the Dev's attention. Is a spectacular idea and it will be the first MMORPG to use it.

I'm pretty sure the forum moderators will notice with all the likes, but can't really say anything till they get response from HQ. Would be nice if they acknowledged it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pseudopsia

I'm pretty sure the forum moderators will notice with all the likes, but can't really say anything till they get response from HQ. Would be nice if they acknowledged it.

---

I want everyone to watch you and me fighting in PvP so that's what RPG is for. lol :P

I am sure Yoshi-P also read this forum.

Wait, Dota 2 already have it?

I want everyone see me defeat a King behemoth wearing only a bikini and a silver Tricorn... no wait...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zehira

I want everyone to watch you and me fighting in PvP so that's what RPG is for. lol :P

I am sure Yoshi-P also read this forum.

Wait, Dota 2 already have it?

---

Yes, DOTA 2 has it, but is not MMO, nor a RPG, but is called MOBA (Multiplayer Online Battle Arena)

Really I would be happy with any form of spectator mode for arena, but I would prefer an option for third person mode that is like you are watching it from the front row on the arena seating, without any unnecessary wall blocking a small part of your view...

Any spectator mode in any type of competitive PvP type game would have to be on delay if they don't want cheating. Say if you were playing a capture the flag battleground. You could have your friend on Vent spectate the game and tell you where the other teams flag carrier is or call out what the other team is doing or where they are located.

People complain a lot about WoW not having this for their PvP arenas and battlegrounds, but the main reason Blizzard doesn't do this is because people would cheat with it if it was real time. They said something along the lines of they didn't want to do the delay thing because it would be a lot of work to program record save everything that happens then replay it at a later time and they just didn't want to do it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zumi

They said something along the lines of they didn't want to do the delay thing because it would be a lot of work to program record save everything that happens then replay it at a later time and they just didn't want to do it.

---

I hope SE doesn't pass on this because of that. I can completely understand not making it a focus for launch if they feel they already have too much on the table BUT this idea should become a priority ASAP. ARR having a spectator system would be a pretty HUGE selling/marketing point when comparing it to current MMOs, and probably even upcoming ones.

That 'X-factor' that SE needs for ARR to be a huge success.. yeah, this could definitely provide some of that.

Bayohne.. I see you lurking around.. come on tell us what Yoshi saiiiiddd plzzzzzzzzz!!!! :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zumi

Any spectator mode in any type of competitive PvP type game would have to be on delay if they don't want cheating. Say if you were playing a capture the flag battleground. You could have your friend on Vent spectate the game and tell you where the other teams flag carrier is or call out what the other team is doing or where they are located.

People complain a lot about WoW not having this for their PvP arenas and battlegrounds, but the main reason Blizzard doesn't do this is because people would cheat with it if it was real time. They said something along the lines of they didn't want to do the delay thing because it would be a lot of work to program record save everything that happens then replay it at a later time and they just didn't want to do it.

---

True for normal everyday PvP cases.

Maybe PvP can do another way around or something. like only able to see from a spot or something.

In general I think this is achieved well enough through video streaming. I certainly wouldn't complain if such a feature was added, however.

Maybe for PVP is best to do for only Replays... Only able to spectate if it's tournament or something... :P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zumi

Any spectator mode in any type of competitive PvP type game would have to be on delay if they don't want cheating. Say if you were playing a capture the flag battleground. You could have your friend on Vent spectate the game and tell you where the other teams flag carrier is or call out what the other team is doing or where they are located.

People complain a lot about WoW not having this for their PvP arenas and battlegrounds, but the main reason Blizzard doesn't do this is because people would cheat with it if it was real time. They said something along the lines of they didn't want to do the delay thing because it would be a lot of work to program record save everything that happens then replay it at a later time and they just didn't want to do it.

---

It doesn't have to be recorded... my thought of this mode was under the assumption it was live...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seirra_Lanzce

Maybe for PVP is best to do for only Replays... Only able to spectate if it's tournament or something... :P

---

hmm a last hit instant replay would be cool... but I would assume the majority of spectator mode would be for the live experience... It would add an almost unheard of experience in MMO's, the "I was there" experience... For example, if you watched the first tournament you could say "I was there when the first first tournament king was crowned"... Although that is miniscule in comparison to the teaching application and amusement application of this mode...

Wasn't going to translate OP but got one comment from Rep on JP side today about this so I translated the OP and posted it on the JP thread.

http://goo.gl/iiF3r

I don't agree with all the stuff that's in the OP's list but I do believe this will be good system to have for those that couldn't make the spot. I know how it was running Dynamis and HNMLS for 8 years in XI lol.

For you guys wanting this to be pushed through, I suggest pushing like on that translated one so the JP rep can see how serious you guys are.

Thank you Reinheart. You're awesome!!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pseudopsia

Thank you Reinheart. You're awesome!!!

---

I agree! Reinheart, you are spectacular!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reinheart

Wasn't going to translate OP but got one comment from Rep on JP side today about this so I translated the OP and posted it on the JP thread.

http://goo.gl/iiF3r

I don't agree with all the stuff that's in the OP's list but I do believe this will be good system to have for those that couldn't make the spot. I know how it was running Dynamis and HNMLS for 8 years in XI lol.

For you guys wanting this to be pushed through, I suggest pushing like on that translated one so the JP rep can see how serious you guys are.

---

Just curious, but have you previously moved EN posts to JP? Keep us updated XD I'm interested in what they will say about us - we are so damn chatty and maybe that has gained us fame (negative or positive).


Just an aside to the OP ideas, though far less feasible*, I thought SE saving server side replays of the fastest runs / perfect runs (if the party allows their run to be archived) would be very cool. Then you could easier learn from players, or just know how it was done. Also comes with bragging rights, proof, and encouragement to redo content even though there would be little other reason (guild trying to spotlight).

* OP's is a spectator mode, what I'm saying is more of a replay. Replays need to be saved server side to make learning how the server behaves harder (you can learn the requests easier if its all neatly logged in an offline file). Being only a few saved replays it wont be much of a strain for SE but it would still require a different kind of code, perhaps their cutscenes code can be used to get a leg up on it..

If they can compress the replay data then it wouldn't be so hard to allow all players to save a few replays to the server. Still, more code - down the road feature maybe..

I see you guys want to be able to spectate events such as raids! While we are currently looking into making this possible for coliseum events, so those that are not brawling can watch on and cheer, we do not have any plans to introduce this for battle content such as raids. The main reason is that we believe some players do not want to be watched by others as they play, and also there is possibility that unwanted videos or screenshots crop up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rukkirii

I see you guys want to be able to spectate events such as raids! While we are currently looking into making this possible for coliseum events, so those that are not brawling can watch on and cheer, we do not have any plans to introduce this for battle content such as raids. The main reason is that we believe some players do not want to be watched by others as they play, and also there is possibility that unwanted videos or screenshots crop up.

---

I see thanks for responding... while that can be resolved by prompting a confirmation for spectator mode by all the players in the party I can see why this could be a problem if someone pressed yes in the confirmation by accident or was made to press yes by the party...

And at least we still get coliseum spectator mode... I hope they would have an option so you can view it as if your watching from the seats in the coliseum...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rukkirii

I see you guys want to be able to spectate events such as raids! While we are currently looking into making this possible for coliseum events, so those that are not brawling can watch on and cheer, we do not have any plans to introduce this for battle content such as raids. The main reason is that we believe some players do not want to be watched by others as they play, and also there is possibility that unwanted videos or screenshots crop up.

---

I support this. I don't want to be watched by people I don't know while in dungeons.

I haven't really followed the thread, however I am surprised that there would be the possibility of watching Coliseum events...if that comes to be a reality, that would be really impressive, particularly if just anyone can join in to watch. Not sure how the rating system would allow it (PEGI/ESRB) but would be great to be able to bet on people too!

For dungeons I can understand how people might not want to be watched, however would be nice to be able to actively invite only those you wanted to watch it, rather than it being free for all viewing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rukkirii

I see you guys want to be able to spectate events such as raids! While we are currently looking into making this possible for coliseum events, so those that are not brawling can watch on and cheer, we do not have any plans to introduce this for battle content such as raids. The main reason is that we believe some players do not want to be watched by others as they play, and also there is possibility that unwanted videos or screenshots crop up.

---

Otherwise devs are trying to make possible to spectate Colisseum PvP and they guess there players may want that others publish videos or screenshots or watch them eating the floor? funny.

Anyways what i want to say is, it shouldnt be so hard to add the content finder a tool like a check mark or something like that to make spectator mode available to public or not if the party or the party leader decide it because they agree with it. Or make it via invite like the above poster said.

The problems are not so hard when you look for a solution.

The default option I stated in OP was spectator has to request to spectate. Auto invite has to be turned on manually. Think moderator pretty much repeating response to similar Japanese post. Videos already popup anyways, there are a lot of people using fraps that don't ask permission as they are playing. Anyways sounds like they don't want to do it so, I won't push too hard.

Please consider prompting the player with an option to toggle a Spectator mode.

I think those that dislike being spectated have valid concerns, but it would be a shame to skimp out on such a great idea.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rukkirii

I see you guys want to be able to spectate events such as raids! While we are currently looking into making this possible for coliseum events, so those that are not brawling can watch on and cheer, we do not have any plans to introduce this for battle content such as raids. The main reason is that we believe some players do not want to be watched by others as they play, and also there is possibility that unwanted videos or screenshots crop up.

---

i can understand those concerns, but you make spectator mode something that is enabled by the participants. People can only watch if the group is okay with it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shougun

Just curious, but have you previously moved EN posts to JP? Keep us updated XD I'm interested in what they will say about us - we are so damn chatty and maybe that has gained us fame (negative or positive).

---

Couple of times. Translated this big one once, had major attention in all region forums and JP side didn't have one so I took part in help translating it in Japanese for JP players to see, which turned out very well. http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...82%A2%E3%81%A7

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rukkirii

I see you guys want to be able to spectate events such as raids! While we are currently looking into making this possible for coliseum events, so those that are not brawling can watch on and cheer, we do not have any plans to introduce this for battle content such as raids. The main reason is that we believe some players do not want to be watched by others as they play, and also there is possibility that unwanted videos or screenshots crop up.

---

Hmmm i was expecting something more good response! Please Rukkirii, tell them about the features we propose!

Spectator mode should be enabled in the consent of party members.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shamdeo

Please consider prompting the player with an option to toggle a Spectator mode.

I think those that dislike being spectated have valid concerns, but it would be a shame to skimp out on such a great idea.

---

I think the main problem would be players in the grp or grp leader pressuring everyone to allow spectators watch when some people just wont feel comfortable. I def know people who tend to do worse when someone is watching them play a game. I def like the idea for like the core raid grps of a LS/FC to go in and the rest of the LS/FC could spectate to see how its done.

If anything just make it a ?/? vote system and dont have the system inform who declined the vote. It is truly unfair for those that dont want to worry about that stuff.

What if you made it so only people in your free company could spectate? Idk if this was already said, but I know in some cases it could be used to teach people who want to do the fight, how to do it by following their guild-mates through the content. To me this would resolve the whole being looked upon by strangers problem, and turn it into a learning mechanic for teaching new players. Though I doubt that would ever replace actually taking them in and carrying them, so in the end I think it would be sort of superfluous. Cool idea though.

Spectating definitely needs to be their for PvP seeing as it's a coliseum and allowing onlookers is a given requirement.

As for spectating in a dungeon, I think it kind of depends on what the purpose of it was. I'd be up for it being linkshell/free company restricted for the purpose of teaching, or for the spectators to do some video recording. It's a big thing currently to do video demonstrations and let's plays and this adds an feature that relates to that. By setting it up as a linkshell/FC only idea, it can be defined in that particular groups guidelines that they do allow spectating during raids and that joining them is subject to your agreeing, as is the case for joining any group. If you don't agree with their politics, you don't join them.

The biggest problem that may arise in this case, in my opinion, is a group gaining an unfair advantage over others because they have more eyes and minds available for a given content. With a free roam camera (even one that is restricted to the room that the party leader is in), it lets spectators provide feedback about things that are going on around the party. Said party maybe be focussing on the current battle, and some may miss certain things happening, but Spectator 1 sees it and informs the party. It shifts the balance. They aren't a natural part of the design of the event. With PvP this is somewhat different, simply because it is player versus player, and not player versus the system.

For public groups, it either needs to be a unanimous vote to have spectating or disallowed completely. The problem is, as others have pointed out, that some people may not feel comfortable with being watched, and similarly, may not be comfortable with the idea of maybe having to vote for this being enabled. And we all know how bad auto-translate has been up to now at communicating intentions. If a person doesn't understand the intention and is then required to make a decision which may or may not end up with them being removed from the party, then you end up with a negative situation because the party leader at the time really wants to be watched.

With the content finder, this isn't as much of an issue because you have make it clear through the system what the intentions of the party is. If shout groups aren't something that's going to be the norm and that the finder can be used as the better alternative (such that it makes it very clear what you want to achieve like desired party members, particular loot rules wherever that may apply), then it reduces the potential for problems.

Private group spectating, I support assuming it doesn't interfere with the design of the raids. How much is restricted should be monitored and adjusted as necessary. It's difficult to assess completely without first trying it out.

With public groups, however, a decision to implement it needs to take into consideration the whole population not just a select group of people even with the proposed features such as voting and not displaying the results. It needs to have a lot more data collected from players who come into the game at and following official launch.

There are some cons about this idea, but generally +1 from me on this. However there should be an option to set if that particular instance is public or private (in a case you don't want to show ur secret tactics ...).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rukkirii

I see you guys want to be able to spectate events such as raids! While we are currently looking into making this possible for coliseum events, so those that are not brawling can watch on and cheer, we do not have any plans to introduce this for battle content such as raids. The main reason is that we believe some players do not want to be watched by others as they play, and also there is possibility that unwanted videos or screenshots crop up.

---

Disappointing. It's nothing special to be able to spectate a "Coliseum"-type event. That's generally the point of that type of event anyway.. why else call it a coliseum? Much like Pankration in XI had a spectating option, in which interest died out quickly...

It was a chance for ARR to stand out against competition and future MMOs who wouldn't want to take on whatever challenges were associated with bringing a spectator mode to a wider option of endgame and PVP content. Saying the main reason for not even attempting it is 'you all don't believe some players want to be watched by others as they play' is quite a trivial response. Especially as many suggestions have already incorporated a solution to that by simply having a prompt to the party leader or vote by party members.. not to mention I'm sure SE could come up with their own ideas... if they wanted too.. Or what about the players that DO want to be watched as they play... Nah, I guess SE would rather just continue sticking to the norm.. Good luck with that.

I really like the idea of spectators, and the arena viewing will be really awesome.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Issachar

I support this. I don't want to be watched by people I don't know while in dungeons.

---

JP thread also has same comments as yours. To this my suggestion was what if at any time if one person doesn't want to be watched like yourself have a option in the PT search which once set, it stays that way until changed again. If you set the spectator mode to 'NO' even if you're not the PT leader, it won't allow spectator mode to happen.

The main purpose I see in this spectator mode is mainly for Free Companies or Linkshell members cheering other members who were able to go in + to learn/teach strategies from spectators side.

As for the unwanted video's and screenshots crop up... comment by the reps... I'm sorry but we already got people recording although not legal using 3rd party apps and posting up on youtube and other sites. Even if you do or don't have spectator mode... those players will still be recording, taking screenshots. So I don't think that's a valid point to bring up. JP players response is similar to mine on this one as well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kirito

I see thanks for responding... while that can be resolved by prompting a confirmation for spectator mode by all the players in the party I can see why this could be a problem if someone pressed yes in the confirmation by accident or was made to press yes by the party...

And at least we still get coliseum spectator mode... I hope they would have an option so you can view it as if your watching from the seats in the coliseum...

---

I can see this. Combine this with someone's idea to give an achievement for rapidly slaying Primals.

Could you imagine what would happen if someone was near the end of their spree, which they were having an outsider film, and one of the newer members made a mistake that broke the chain? That video would end up on youtube and that player would be the laughing stock of the whole realm. Remember the forums on KillingIfrit where people would warn each other of erroneous players? It'd be like that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yrusama

Could you imagine what would happen if someone was near the end of their spree, which they were having an outsider film, and one of the newer members made a mistake that broke the chain? That video would end up on youtube and that player would be the laughing stock of the whole realm. Remember the forums on KillingIfrit where people would warn each other of erroneous players? It'd be like that.

---

So.. Like what?? Every other day in MMO history....?

Who hasn't made a mistake before... heck, I usually treasure the vids where I'm caught messing up or doing sumthing crazy cause I stop paying attention for a second, they are always the funniest.

And btw, whether or not there is a spectator mode, has nothing to do with whether or not people post videos on youtube, which also has nothing to do with the people that *try* to put other people down for messing up, which also has nothing to do with the fact that you shouldn't be giving any ppl like that your attention in the first place..

Reading JP side of the thread, there are people saying they don't want this feature as they don't want to be seen.
Others mentioned like this threads suggestion where this is just an option but as some of those JP players don't want to feel that it's their fault that the PT can't be seen by others, and if they did allow the PT to have spectators they would feel bad afterwards. I'm telling you guys like the other examine thread, it's difference in culture that makes different players from different regions see stuff differently. Personally I don't understand why they are playing MMO in first place if they don't want to be seen... but I guess that's their play style so I can't say much about it, not like it's going to change their views of the game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reinheart

Reading JP side of the thread, there are people saying they don't want this feature as they don't want to be seen.
Others mentioned like this threads suggestion where this is just an option but as some of those JP players don't want to feel that it's their fault that the PT can't be seen by others, and if they did allow the PT to have spectators they would feel bad afterwards. I'm telling you guys like the other examine thread, it's difference in culture that makes different players from different regions see stuff differently. Personally I don't understand why they are playing MMO in first place if they don't want to be seen... but I guess that's their play style so I can't say much about it, not like it's going to change their views of the game.

---

orz, then is just really sad to hear that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reinheart

Reading JP side of the thread, there are people saying they don't want this feature as they don't want to be seen.
Others mentioned like this threads suggestion where this is just an option but as some of those JP players don't want to feel that it's their fault that the PT can't be seen by others, and if they did allow the PT to have spectators they would feel bad afterwards. I'm telling you guys like the other examine thread, it's difference in culture that makes different players from different regions see stuff differently. Personally I don't understand why they are playing MMO in first place if they don't want to be seen... but I guess that's their play style so I can't say much about it, not like it's going to change their views of the game.

---

So the players that don't want to be seen don't want to effect players that do want to be seen. I don't think its so much cultural in that aspect as it is human consideration for another. Its the same principal of since I can help only one person helping no one is more fair. So removing the decision altogether by not having the system displaces any fault away from any player and on the game/design itself.

But I am glad that there is a unanimous understanding of why the idea is good on both sides of the sea even is there is opposition on both sides as well. Is there a German and French counter part thread as well?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sakasa

So the players that don't want to be seen don't want to effect players that do want to be seen. I don't think its so much cultural in that aspect as it is human consideration for another. Its the same principal of since I can help only one person helping no one is more fair. So removing the decision altogether by not having the system displaces any fault away from any player and on the game/design itself.

But I am glad that there is a unanimous understanding of why the idea is good on both sides of the sea even is there is opposition on both sides as well. Is there a German and French counter part thread as well?

---

/nod only thing I don't understand is some suggested what if the system didn't mention who doesn't want the spectator mode on. Say one person in PT has a setting that they don't want spectator on, then before entering the instance, or dungeon that it just shows message saying spectator mode cannot be turned on due to anonymous person not wanting the feature on. It will keep their names hidden.