FFXIV: ARR's fishing system changes

One potentially new thing that wasn't mentioned is the elusive card game that we can't seem to get any info on. I can see myself being completely absorbed into that.

~carry on with fishing related discussions >.>

Just keep in mind that even if we dont like what they come up with this time: this is an mmo, they can always make adjustments later. If enough of us are vocal about it, we might just get what we want...nothing is set in stone around here so lets just keep an open mind come beta. who knows? we may end up loving it.

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Originally Posted by wind

Haha gotcha, I mean if you're able to come up with a detailed scenario as that then I'm confident you haven't completely given up on the game. Which is good :D.

I'm sorry for your fishing though :(

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Don't be sorry! Apologies are only for the departed, and I'm not giving up on Fishing without a fight. We've got two very good threads filled with very supportive posts, each of them expressing disatisfaction at not only the silence they've imposed on us, but also of the very vague and disheartening pieces of information we have obtained. I'm hoping the fact that this and Nix's thread are both gaining a lot of support will show the devs that, while neither they nor Yoshi owe us a thing, we would still like some transparency on this issue. Simply saying "wait and see" isn't enough, because then we'd have to wait to beta phase 3. As beta phase 3 is so late in the game, nearly to open beta, I and I'm sure many others feel that leaving such a potentially glaring issue to a phase so late in the development cycle could lead to disaster.

Here's hoping we get through to the devs that, if what we've learned is true, it will not stand. It's a depressing, boring path, and if it's true then it reeks of hand-waving and a lack of imagination. Fishing is its own class; we deserve better than to be relegated to something pointless.

In his video with PC Gamer, Yoshida says:

"But of course, because the foundation of the game is going to be changed, some players may feel some parts were better in the original. To them I say "We managed to rehaul the world! Thanks to your support." And I will ask, 'what do you think? Are you enjoying it?' And if they say 'no, I don't like it," then I will listen to them and promise to upgrade and always make sure we are matching expectations. That's what I will always do. i will talk to the players directly and in an honest way."

Due to the previous players poll, his decision on the gathering changes seems baffling. Perhaps he wanted to make gathering a side job because that's what all the other MMOs were doing and he wanted to emulate that. From his comments, he will let us play it this way and then ask again, maybe in another player's poll, "Do you like it? Are you enjoying the game?"

After that, he says he will listen.

I think then we will have our voices heard and if we play the game and we still don't like gathering system then it will change, will be made better. For now. I think that we should try to give feedback and give suggestions on the current system planned for ARR, whether we're in Beta or not.

Who knows? Maybe we'll end up creating something entirely new.

At this point, it is easy to think that "They don't care about gathering, look what they did!" But the interview I found it reassuring that he is already considering that some of the changes were disliked. He's not changing it now, but it doesn't mean that we are ignored. So I'm glad he expressed that.

It seems at this time that he is willing to overhaul as much as he has to to keep gamers happy. He says he "will always do that". I really like that he said that, and so I'll dig my hope out of the dumpster now...

Thanks, Yoshi P

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

In his video with PC Gamer, Yoshida says:

"But of course, because the foundation of the game is going to be changed, some players may feel some parts were better in the original. To them I say "We managed to rehaul the world! Thanks to your support." And I will ask, 'what do you think? Are you enjoying it?' And if they say 'no, I don't like it," then I will listen to them and promise to upgrade and always make sure we are matching expectations. That's what I will always do. i will talk to the players directly and in an honest way."

Due to the previous players poll, his decision on the gathering changes seems baffling. Perhaps he wanted to make gathering a side job because that's what all the other MMOs were doing and he wanted to emulate that. From his comments, he will let us play it this way and then ask again, maybe in another player's poll, "Do you like it? Are you enjoying the game?"

After that, he says he will listen.

I think then we will have our voices heard and if we play the game and we still don't like gathering system then it will change, will be made better. For now. I think that we should try to give feedback and give suggestions on the current system planned for ARR, whether we're in Beta or not.

Who knows? Maybe we'll end up creating something entirely new.

At this point, it is easy to think that "They don't care about gathering, look what they did!" But the interview I found it reassuring that he is already considering that some of the changes were disliked. He's not changing it now, but it doesn't mean that we are ignored. So I'm glad he expressed that.

It seems at this time that he is willing to overhaul as much as he has to to keep gamers happy. He says he "will always do that". I really like that he said that, and so I'll dig my hope out of the dumpster now...

Thanks, Yoshi P

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I really hope then that he follows through, and that we can muster the same support we've seen in these two threads again. Or rather, I hope all my fears are completely unfounded and that I actually fall in love with the new fishing, and a change isn't necessary. I'd still really like some sort of word from the devs, patting my head and telling me everything will be alright. So far they've been wonderfully transparent with most of the mechanics in ARR, so I can't figure out why fishing remains this big mystery.

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Originally Posted by LlenCoram

Even if it were true, the loss of gathering skills while fishing is still pretty lamentable. What about legendary fish? What about finding a remote fishing hole with really rare fish that take actual skill to find? What about being able to set up next to a bunch of new fishers in a well-known watering hole, and pulling up some really rare fish right next to them, while they're busy pulling up common stuff. Without gathering skills, I can't see how it'll ever be anything more than a shallow thing to do.

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I wanna focus on this part, with all my ideas I gave earlier I wanted to focus on both progression as the fisher class, and as the player.

I'm in the same boat, I hope it is not point and click. Abilities were actually really cool to have on a gathering non battle class imho. The ability to have rare bait and rare catches, knowing what you're doing and having quests. With some of the stuff disappearing I'm beginning to wonder. phase 3 can't come soon enough.

I updated the OP to reflect the new translation from the live letter.

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Originally Posted by LlenCoram

I really hope then that he follows through, and that we can muster the same support we've seen in these two threads again. Or rather, I hope all my fears are completely unfounded and that I actually fall in love with the new fishing, and a change isn't necessary. I'd still really like some sort of word from the devs, patting my head and telling me everything will be alright. So far they've been wonderfully transparent with most of the mechanics in ARR, so I can't figure out why fishing remains this big mystery.

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Transparent to a point...but...I cant help but feel like they're holding back a LOT of secrets. Maybe its just wishful on my part but there's still a lot of unanswered and unexplored questions. Im just gonna try my best to wipe my mind of 1.0 and see if i cant find a way to like it. After all, I hated it the first 20 levels. But I kept going back to it, thinking about it, and finally fell in love with it. Could happen again.

I'm looking forward to the new lures and baits; I really hope this time around they will make the choice of bait very very fish (fish smaller category) specific. Or have certain choice produce higher yields/faster yields of a certain group of fishes. In 1.xx Though vesper sent all that time compiling that chart; and the "disciples of land" had their data; most baits could be used for all catches in one of the two given categories (salt water/ fresh water). Of course this to the feel of redudance of the various options we had to choose from. ....I could remember before 1.2ish how Phurbles were extremely rare to come by; and to have a snurble fly made you a unique fisher!! Nevertheless that fly fair only to catch crayfish effectively....rarest lure catch the most common fish /facepalm.

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Originally Posted by javid

I'm looking forward to the new lures and baits; I really hope this time around they will make the choice of bait very very fish (fish smaller category) specific. Or have certain choice produce higher yields/faster yields of a certain group of fishes. In 1.xx Though vesper sent all that time compiling that chart; and the "disciples of land" had their data; most baits could be used for all catches in one of the two given categories (salt water/ fresh water). Of course this to the feel of redudance of the various options we had to choose from. ....I could remember before 1.2ish how Phurbles were extremely rare to come by; and to have a snurble fly made you a unique fisher!! Nevertheless that fly fair only to catch crayfish effectively....rarest lure catch the most common fish /facepalm.

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From what we know so far, there will be both different lures/bait as well as different rods. Temperature of the water and the weather will affect fishing as well.

It remains to be seen. I'm hoping for the best but preparing for the worst. I'm really curious how they'll do multiple rods however... I worked my tail off to get my Luminary Rod, I'd like to continue being able to show it off on my back.

I agree. I fished a lot of fishies to get that golden rod. I hope it is an all-around rod, or at least can pick up rare fish no other can.

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Originally Posted by Joshster

I agree. I fished a lot of fishies to get that golden rod. I hope it is an all-around rod, or at least can pick up rare fish no other can.

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Yes, a thousand times yes.

"Be it from the shore of a sea, the bank of a river, or the deck of a boat, Eorzea's anglers must constantly account for a wide range of factors to optimize their success, including season, time, place, tools, and bait."

The new summary on the official page does make it sound like there's a fair bit of strategy involved in catching the right fish. Makes no hint at anything to do while fishing, but it certainly sounds like there's a lot of planning beforehand.

Hehe, I'm well aware. I was spreading the info around the other threads today. I just feel like this thread doesn't get as much attention, which is fine. I'll wait until more concrete info comes out before updating.

So it's still being recognized as a DoL, and that's good... I'm still hoping to hear there will be a PURPOSE in fishing and a minigame involved. Fishing was one of my favorite ingame activities, I certainly did not do it just because there was nothing else. I don't want to 'turn on fishing mode' then be able to sit back and read a book... If I wanted to do something that was essentially NOT playing the game.....then I'd NOT play the game.

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Originally Posted by LlenCoram

Hehe, I'm well aware. I was spreading the info around the other threads today. I just feel like this thread doesn't get as much attention, which is fine. I'll wait until more concrete info comes out before updating.

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I have been reading and liking your posts so far LlenCoram and I want to say you are NOT alone in your sentiments. I love fishing with a passion. It was my main way of making money FFXI and while it wasn't as profitable in FFXIV 1.0, it was still a very enjoyable experience. I remember how thrilled I was in FFXI when I FINALLY turned in my 10,000th moat carp and got my Lu Shang's rod. After I got hacked, I tried playing WoW to fill the void. The game was so boring that I actually returned to FFXI, created a new character, and did the Lu Shang's rod quest AGAIN!

I don't like the people on this thread like "wind" who seem to want to demean the DoL classes as less than equal. Everyone plays for their own reasons and SE should be seeking to accomidate as many people as possible to increase their player base. People like Wind who probably don't fish won't be bothered at all if they impliment a challenging fishing minigame, fishing quests, and the like because they aren't the type of player that will be fishing in the first place. Not all of us are all about COMBAT COMBAT KILL IT WITH FIRE RAAARRRRHHGHGHGHHG. If they treat all DoL classes as pee-ons the game will be no better than WoW.

The fatigue system and gobby fishers in FFXI represent a *good* idea for attacking bots; no need to gut fishing just to combat rmts. And I strongly disagree with whoever said the majority of level 50 fishers were bots. I knew max level fishers in both FFXI and FFXIV and let's face it... a bot probably will get banned before getting to 50. They will always be figured out eventually, and the rmts always replace them, but a long time max level fisher is a real player.

Yes, we all want to see Llen Coram's fishy dream come true! I've been secretly following Coram's harrowing tale of a lone fisher stepping out into the reborn landscape, MIQO'TE versus the WORLD, and I've got to tell you, she has my full support! I plan to mainly DoL/DoH all over the place, and I really love fishing IRL, even if I won't do it anymore because I feel bad about harming the sea creatures. Of course, that is where video games step in, to let me enjoy the act without the guilt associated with it afterward! He he.

Come June 14th, a horde of rod-dangling, bait-spitting adventurers will march to the shores of Eorzea and proclaim, "FISHING MATTERS, MATTER, TOO!"

Yeah! :cool:

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Originally Posted by Hestern_Nestern

Yes, we all want to see Llen Coram's fishy dream come true! I've been secretly following Coram's harrowing tale of a lone fisher stepping out into the reborn landscape, MIQO'TE versus the WORLD, and I've got to tell you, she has my full support! I plan to mainly DoL/DoH all over the place, and I really love fishing IRL, even if I won't do it anymore because I feel bad about harming the sea creatures. Of course, that is where video games step in, to let me enjoy the act without the guilt associated with it afterward! He he.

Come June 14th, a horde of rod-dangling, bait-spitting adventurers will march to the shores of Eorzea and proclaim, "FISHING MATTERS, MATTER, TOO!"

Yeah! :cool:

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Haha, I'm glad to have supporters! When the time comes, we will be heard! I just hope we can shout up a cry of thanks to the heavens, instead of woe.

Most the support in the thread has been from people who either enjoyed fishing in v1 and are worried it'll change, or didn't like it in v1 and are hoping it'll be something great in ARR, but I just wanted to say that as somebody who didn't care for it in v1 and probably won't touch it in ARR... I'm still in your corner. And I've spoken to quite a few people with similar sentiments. So know that while Fishers may be in the minority, I don't think people who agree with you are.

I want a game that's fun for everyone, and I don't need "stuff to do while you're semi-AFK" added any more than you guys do. Fishing is a class, it should be treated as one.

And I need enough of you guys enjoying it that I don't have to do it myself for my alchemy supplies. ;]

With the initial release, I will be in a rush to complete quests and gain access to areas. Once that initial rush is out of the way, I can't wait to cast my line. Here's to hoping for an awesome DoL class.

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Originally Posted by Joshster

With the initial release, I will be in a rush to complete quests and gain access to areas. Once that initial rush is out of the way, I can't wait to cast my line. Here's to hoping for an awesome DoL class.

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When you're ready, I'll be out on the cliffs casting away. I don't plan on doing anything until I have a good 48 hours of fishing under my belt again.

I also may or may not be planning on The World's Most Boring Streaming Channel <.< >.>

Omg I can see it now. Fishercat podcast featuring the latest in the world of rod-envy and anime schoolgirls.

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Originally Posted by Zetsumei_Tsunarashi

Omg I can see it now. Fishercat podcast featuring the latest in the world of rod-envy and anime schoolgirls.

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Haha, thanks Zets. I was thinking more just me fishing and talking to whoever wanted to talk. I have a pretty sexy voice, if I do say so myself.



Maybe some anime schoolgirls.

Updated the OP. This has actually ruined my whole day.

Ah, the "Fisher" section of the forums, the most distant Siberian gulag of them all.

Terribly disappointing news. Lowest priority, least desire to communicate.

"Please look forward to it!"

Sigh. I guess I will have to move onto other DoH/DoL classes. :(

Stream pooped out during the FSH question but...they didn't say anything new at all from what I heard. Weather, Wind Speed, whatthefuckever. Unless I missed something the only thing Y seemed to care about emphasizing was that this would hinder RMTs...

gee...thanks

Seems like they are moving the focus away from the economy like we thought.

They want fishing to be just a relaxing activity apparently.

could someone please forward this link to Yoshi?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_punishment

[Reposted from other Fish Thread by way of Pure Hilarity]

Oh no! I immediately thought of Fishing Representative LL Coram when I heard the news, straight from the Yoshi-P's translated mouth. To this news I say:


NOOooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

D: I really hope, despite it all, that fishing will be viable and entertaining, if "relaxing". If fish are a recipe in anything, then we know we will have a market to sell to, we can say that much (right????).

Fishing RIGHTs....FISHING RIGHTS...I TRICK UNSUSPECTING SEA CREATURES ONTO A HOOK OR BOB FOR LATER CONSUMPTION OR TRADE....AND I AM PROUD!!!! Long live the Water Rogues! YEAH!!!! 'Til Ichthyoids Swallow All!

(This Wikipedia link has some interesting details on fish and its value in society throughout the ages: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fish if anyone is interested).

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Originally Posted by Hestern_Nestern

[Reposted from other Fish Thread by way of Pure Hilarity]

Oh no! I immediately thought of Fishing Representative LL Coram when I heard the news, straight from the Yoshi-P's translated mouth. To this news I say:


NOOooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKI-tD0L18A

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Originally Posted by Zetsumei_Tsunarashi

Seems like they are moving the focus away from the economy like we thought.

They want fishing to be just a relaxing activity apparently.

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I'm not so sure about that actually. Consider that cooking and alchemy will most likely still use fish in their recipes. If this is true, fish will still be a valuable commodity on the Auction House. There is no way for the game devs to predict what the going price of these items will be as it is the player base in each server that ultimately determines the market. I honestly think they are referring to NPC prices when they say it will not be of high value and this probably is a smart move to combat RMT activity. As for us real fishermen and fisherwomen, most of us will not be selling our hard caught goods to the NPC. We would want to go to the Auction House and sell to other players right?

The first thing I am gonna do in Phase 3 is go to the auction house and look at cooking goods and alchemy goods and see if there is anything that sounds like it would require fish (i.e. seared tilapia, fish oil, whatever). If there are, there will be a market and it should still be profitable.

As for what fishing itself will be like... guess we just have to wait and see.

I honestly don't know what to think anymore. Today's news has been incredibly deflating; when matched with the complete lack of dialogue between us and the devs, and the lack of its inclusion in phase 3, yet now knowing that it's something incredibly simple with no real mechanics to speak of, it just drives home the point that the devs don't give half a toss about us. I suspect Yoshi would delete the class if he could...

He may as well be doing.

In any case, I'll wait until I actually get to play it. From what I'm hearing though, this game is no longer for me.

And so we finally get a look at the new fishing mechanic. The problem is I can't even call it that. It's exactly as we feared it would be. The worst case scenario.

Fishing:
- Click cast (first key press)
- Wait
- Bite
- Character pulls in fish for you

Rinse and repeat. This new system, a system in a big budget MMO where the whole point is to play the role we want to play, where we're expected to pay $10 a month, has been turned into a mechanic that actually has less interactivity than animal crossing.

As far as I can tell, I'm done. Good luck to everyone who wants to keep playing this. Know in advance that unless you like pure combat, the devs don't give a flying fuck about you. So if you enjoy gathering, if you enjoy crafting, or if you enjoy anything at all that doesn't involve quests or fighting, be ready to have your favourite class destroyed. One day Yoshi will swoop down, look at your favourite class, and say, "Yep, I'm going to destroy this one. I feel like players have too much stress, and blah blah conversation with nature blah blah no economy blah blah talking to friends."

Good luck everyone.

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Originally Posted by LlenCoram

And so we finally get a look at the new fishing mechanic. The problem is I can't even call it that. It's exactly as we feared it would be. The worst case scenario.

Fishing:
- Click cast (first key press)
- Wait
- Bite
- Character pulls in fish for you

Rinse and repeat. This new system, a system in a big budget MMO where the whole point is to play the role we want to play, where we're expected to pay $10 a month, has been turned into a mechanic that actually has less interactivity than animal crossing.

As far as I can tell, I'm done. Good luck to everyone who wants to keep playing this. Know in advance that unless you like pure combat, the devs don't give a flying fuck about you. So if you enjoy gathering, if you enjoy crafting, or if you enjoy anything at all that doesn't involve quests or fighting, be ready to have your favourite class destroyed. One day Yoshi will swoop down, look at your favourite class, and say, "Yep, I'm going to destroy this one. I feel like players have too much stress, and blah blah conversation with nature blah blah no economy blah blah talking to friends."

Good luck everyone.

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I thought I saw that when the pole jigged (the bite), an ability was used on the hotbar to reel it in. Granted, that's less interactivity than before (more like WoW).

I like the concept of collecting the full library of fish and that there's a degree of pre-planning involved in gear, bait and location.

I'm disappointed we didn't get any new systems (eg group fishing instances) and that Fisher has no impact on the rest of the game through items or economy and is essentially not a Gathering class at all. In LotRO, it is a separate thing called a 'Hobby' - it seems to now be like that.

Sad day though Llen; I was looking forward to hanging out with you at fishing holes across Eorzea. I hope either you reconsider, or that something changes down the line (pun!) in a patch that'll reignite your interest.

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Originally Posted by Mjollnir

I thought I saw that when the pole jigged (the bite), an ability was used on the hotbar to reel it in. Granted, that's less interactivity than before (more like WoW).

I like the concept of collecting the full library of fish and that there's a degree of pre-planning involved in gear, bait and location.

I'm disappointed we didn't get any new systems (eg group fishing instances) and that Fisher has no impact on the rest of the game through items or economy and is essentially not a Gathering class at all. In LotRO, it is a separate thing called a 'Hobby' - it seems to now be like that.

Sad day though Llen; I was looking forward to hanging out with you at fishing holes across Eorzea. I hope either you reconsider, or that something changes down the line (pun!) in a patch that'll reignite your interest.

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I'll still be there at phase 4 and early access. I'm going to try it. I might even surprise myself and find that my tolerance for tedium is so high that I'll enjoy this new system.

I'm just not getting my hopes up.

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Originally Posted by LlenCoram

I'll still be there at phase 4 and early access. I'm going to try it. I might even surprise myself and find that my tolerance for tedium is so high that I'll enjoy this new system.

I'm just not getting my hopes up.

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I am glad at least that you'll stick around for a little while longer (and that you'll try it).

I thought all of the pre-planning involved contained a lot of depth. I know it wasn't exactly what you wanted, but...

Standing by your side, we've all grown to adore you, Llen. I really want to fish with you someday. We'll be on the same server!

But it's not your responsibility to stay. I just hope there is enough here to keep you going.

/hug

I am really glad you will at least give it a try. It is disheartening, for sure. I am hoping for the best. It would be nice to know that fishing would be needed for at least providing culinary and alchemy ingredients, but I hear these fish will be available at vendors for very low cost. I loved fishing so much in XI, had Ebisu Rod and 100 fishing. But I also loved other things about XI, and now XIV. The game will keep me going because fishing is not my only interest. But it is sad that they may have turned it into nothing but a mini-game. I don't even like mini-games. :/

Any chance anyone can link me to a youtube video with the footage?

Then again, I'm almost scared to watch it.

I am 10000 points in disappointment with what could have been an awesome system. Here's hope that an outcry from disappointed fisherpeoples may save it yet. ; ;

I think the closest thing i can compare the new fishing system to, is collecting tokens or w/e said game calls them in a sand box game. Items scattered across the world to be found through auto fishing, bait/rod/time/day/weather switching. Basically all the complicated bits will be up on a website in a heart beat and most players will just follow that to the letter. I'm sure there will be plenty who will do it if there is proper incentive to do it but enjoy it? That i guess would depend on how much players enjoy running around and ticking off a list because that seems to be as involving as fishing will get for most players. Maybe i'm wrong but everything i've heard keeps pointing me towards fisher being a completionist's past time, with a bit of required for x coming later on(treasure maps).

I will test it but i don't see myself playing it for anything more than because i have to for one item or another.