Lets go everywhere instantly lololol

@Izariael

So you're saying there is NO exploration? How were we able to teleport to that place in the first place? I mean did we instantly get the port just logging in the game?

No we had to explore and get there at least one time, touched the crystal and then able to port. But wouldn't running there the first time be considered exploring? Hmmm confused...

Now if you're bashing those who got a free ride from a friend or you, yourself were guilty of that then I mean thats on you, for your choice, or theirs to skip the exploration and if they did so... it would appear they didn't really care for it which again is their choice playing the game their way.

Now your example of porting to black brush from Ul'dah, if they constantly wasted anima like this (pre-hamlet) then "they" would end up having to choco or walk on foot after awhile which would fit your whole argument of FORCING people to choco/run everywhere.

Also the "instant gratification" getting old fast argument.. guess what that argument also works for having to run everywhere constantly, especially when it is the same place over and over. You honestly believe the majority of the player base actually loved the run from Jeuno to Sky (if they didnt have OP warp, or Promy port?). That got old incredibly fast.

I think someone said they would watch movies, youtube, basically do something OUT of the game.. because it was so boring wheres the immersion in that?

Exploration should be encouraged by something else than making traveling cumbersome and increasing dead times.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Exploration should be encouraged by something else than making traveling cumbersome and increasing dead times.

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Unless gone to insane level design, scale cannot be preserved very well without making some sort of "slow down". I think FFXI 45 minute travel times are a bit long (very long) - but I always thought a travel time was necessary otherwise you begin to take the world for granted. I think WoW had a pretty happy compromise of scale and speed. Though the world of WoW is also pretty big and seamless zones (someone said that WoW has a bunch of teleporting now or something but I haven't played since the level 60 vanilla days).

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Originally Posted by wind

@Izariael

So you're saying there is NO exploration? How were we able to teleport to that place in the first place? I mean did we instantly get the port just logging in the game?

No we had to explore and get there at least one time, touched the crystal and then able to port. But wouldn't running there the first time be considered exploring? Hmmm confused...

Now if you're bashing those who got a free ride from a friend or you, yourself were guilty of that then I mean thats on you, for your choice, or theirs to skip the exploration and if they did so... it would appear they didn't really care for it which again is their choice playing the game their way.

Now your example of porting to black brush from Ul'dah, if they constantly wasted anima like this (pre-hamlet) then "they" would end up having to choco or walk on foot after awhile which would fit your whole argument of FORCING people to choco/run everywhere.

Also the "instant gratification" getting old fast argument.. guess what that argument also works for having to run everywhere constantly, especially when it is the same place over and over. You honestly believe the majority of the player base actually loved the run from Jeuno to Sky (if they didnt have OP warp, or Promy port?). That got old incredibly fast.

I think someone said they would watch movies, youtube, basically do something OUT of the game.. because it was so boring wheres the immersion in that?

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I'm not at all bashing players who decided to port around, and I'm hoping that's not the message I conveyed. I am saying, however, that it's a very bad sign if players DO want to skip the exploration and travel. That's a sign that the world is dead and uninteresting. It's a sign that travel is monotonous and unexciting. It's a sign that the lore isn't there to promote traveling to a destination by a more scenic path. These are red flags that I hope are addressed with 2.0, so that we can see less people relying on teleportation as their main means of travel.

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Originally Posted by Totorixiii

I agree with you when it comes to that feeling about exploration. FFXI gave me that more realistic and great feeling of true scale of exploration and such.

But...times have change... :(

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No they don't, not if you exercise free-choice!

One of my most abiding memories of V1 will always be the day, sometime in December '10 I think, when I took my level 20-something Pug out to explore the land. I took him pretty much everywhere, gathering Aerthyte teleports and discovering what was there.

The first sighting of Ishguard was a spine-tingling moment, it took a lot more time and several deaths to finally get from Thanalan into Mor Dhona: the thrill of finding my own way to the two camps was wonderful, the only folks I knew how had Bristlebark for example had gone in a large group.

Sadly of course, the world building of V1 wasn't particularly awesome, but the some of the landscape was beautiful or 'cool' .. I loved those weird chimneys in north Thanalan, I never learned what they were or how you got past the locked gates .. and Mor Dhona was spine-tinglingly eery, the music was brilliant.


So I disagree with everyone here complaining about the 'instant travel' mooted for V2. You CHOOSE whether or not to use it, you CHOOSE whether or not you go out and explore on your own, stop forcing YOUR CHOICE on others by arguing that mechanics you don't want to use yourself should be denied to those who CHOOSE to use them themselves!

This whole thread is so typical of MMO forums these days, simply because someone doesn't want to use something means they come to the forums and complain to try to get the developers not to include an OPTIONAL feature they personally don't like.

I just wanna say, I love you KraggyKor..

I was going to sift through the forums to find the threads that a few people created that displayed their adventures while exploring. I know I have read a few on these forums and a couple blogs on lodestone, showing screenshots of areas that people playing the game from launch probably didn't even know existed lol.

but after your post I don't think that is needed, you basically portrayed what I wanted to say :D.. that it comes down to the peoples choice

So again I luv you big guy

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Originally Posted by Guasta_Ryets

My favourite Little Dragon song is "Place To Belong".

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Nothing better than some little dragon on a warm summer night, maybe some explosions in the sky too

Totally agree KraggyKor.

It is not this OR that, to me an mmorpg should be this AND that.
Freedom.

I wish there was more respect for each other, the people who like to explore and take things slower, but also the people who like to do things fast and in the best way there is.

Both ways I understand, and both ways have their fun in their own way.

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Originally Posted by PotatoSalad

Holy skritt! This guy killed this pointless thread with common sense!

More options for everyone! Person A wants to teleport to destination to deliver his levequest shipment while person B wants to take the scenic route on chocoback!

Win, win, right?

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Until.... the people who want that "choice" to teleport everywhere burn through their Anima. Then begin the threads on the forums demanding that Anima be adjusted, we get more Anima, that less Anima is consumed for teleporting, or that it be abolished altogether; how it's not fair that they're being "forced" to run places on foot just because they're "efficient" and don't like "wasting time". Those kinds of arguments have popped up in the past. I'm sure they'll pop up again.

And that becomes a problem when the person who wants to bounce their group all over the place runs out of Anima, and then begins to expect others to start using theirs to get them around instead. If the suggestion is made to teleport to a central location and then Chocobo to the specific spot, it's shot down immediately because "it wastes time" and is "inefficient" (because, as I've mentioned before, so many people these days are forever in a freaking hurry to do everything). That has happened more times than you might want to believe while I've been in groups. I highly doubt I'm the only one.

When the people who want to teleport everywhere run out of Anima... but still insist on porting everywhere... they tend to make it everyone else's problem. Try telling those people "but, it's just a choice, man. I don't have to use my Anima. I can just ride on Chocobo if I want to". Try telling the rest of your party that you'd rather ride on chocobo to a location to meet up with them rather than teleport because you don't want to waste the anima. See how well and often that works out for you.

So while it's always a choice to teleport. It's not always a choice not to. People in MMO communities - especially the "go go go" Achiever types - have a way of reducing "options" in a game down to a short list of "mandates".

What kind of cracks me up about arguments I'm seeing against easy teleporting everywhere now, is that before the argument was "well, I would love to spend more time running to other places if the world wasn't so copy-pasta'd and more interesting to look at". If I had a nickel for every time I saw some variation of that reasoning used for why people didn't want to run/ride on foot more in 1.0...

ARR is giving us more interesting and diverse and "non copy-pasta'd" areas. So, people should now have a more open attitude - even enthusiastic - about traveling places on foot and not demanding to teleport everywhere easily, right? Right? Wrong. They've simply shifted the goal-post and moved on to another reason why "it's just not a good idea" and teleporting must remain on a "go anywhere at any time" level. Some are even arguing against having to unlock the locations first, and have everything open from the start. I mean, really?

Of course, all this illustrates is that they simply wanted to go where ever they wanted, when ever they wanted on a whim without restriction or requirement... but didn't want to seem "greedy" about it. So they used a convenient scape-goat, such as 1.0's terrain/environments to cover up for it.

Give WHM's the sole ability to tele-taxi again.

It's not even like it's a big deal, that once somewhat exclusive club I thought I was a part of is now a completely washed out standard.

I played xi for 8 years and I do not want to go back to that ever *shudders*. I enjoy being able to travel quickly I do the things I find fun in the game for an hour. Some people enjoy it some don't. I am ok with there only being one crystal per zone though and needing to have the crystal to be teled there.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Unless gone to insane level design, scale cannot be preserved very well without making some sort of "slow down". I think FFXI 45 minute travel times are a bit long (very long) - but I always thought a travel time was necessary otherwise you begin to take the world for granted. I think WoW had a pretty happy compromise of scale and speed. Though the world of WoW is also pretty big and seamless zones (someone said that WoW has a bunch of teleporting now or something but I haven't played since the level 60 vanilla days).

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it's always had a bunch of teleporting, Mages have had city ports since vanilla which party members don't need to have been to the city in question to utilize, meeting stones could always be used at dungeons to "summon" other party members so you weren't standing around outside waiting for your last member to show up. and your hearthstone has always had a timer of 15 minutes making it pretty easy to say, get a port to Ironforge to go to the AH and then port yourself back to a whole other continent and NOT waste 2 hours, the boats and zepplins between contents are just a 4 sec ride as it leaves port and then a loading screen. and again this has been how it was back in vanilla

There were/are tons of fast travel options in WoW, however in WoW I had way more drive to explore than I ever did in the 6 years I played FFXI and I love to explore the world, both real and virtual. The reason WoW caused me to explore more, was because not only was there plenty of content that kept you in a zone and basically lead you around the whole zone before finally leading you to the next one, there were also rare mobs or neat things to see tucked away, or even a landmark that would be familiar to a fan of the Warcraft series. FFXI's exploration fell flat for me largely because of the game's "party or die" mentality, it basically made exploration an activity to do AFTER you had completed a zone and it no longer held any kind of fear or wonder. And even then NMs either were dull looking retreads of the mobs that spawn in the zone anyway or were so exceedingly rare to see that there were several that I never saw in the whole 6 years I played. There was nothing like Un'Goro Crater's Devilsaur, which I still have no clue how that thing snuck up on me, or a few others. truly unique mobs that were highly sought after for more than just drops.

I guess what this long ramblely post is saying... I agree WoW did exploration right, because it gave you and incentive to explore and to find neat things and didn't withhold them from you based on "you need a party for this" or some other non-sense. Exploration was forced but it wasn't a case of you have to go here slowly, unlike XI's, it was a true case of "We need you to go over here and...." XI just asked you to slog through their over world (I CANNOT be the only one who thinks you both feel and look like you're running through syrup) and maybe there will be a neat light house or a pretty pond to see.

and to get back to the topic....once I've explored somewhere...yeah I'm going to take the fastest route either back there or through there, I mean hell, when you move to a new city, you "Explore" it to find the gorcery store or restaurants, once you find them, don't you look for shortcuts afterwards?

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Originally Posted by Azurus

I played xi for 8 years and I do not want to go back to that ever *shudders*. I enjoy being able to travel quickly I do the things I find fun in the game for an hour. Some people enjoy it some don't. I am ok with there only being one crystal per zone though and needing to have the crystal to be teled there.

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^^ Seriously!

You know what I DON'T miss? I DON'T miss it taking 30 minutes to choco to sky only to find out someone forgot to come bard or thf and needs to go back and change jobs taking another 30 minutes so you sit around for an hour or more picking your butt so you can kill Kirin once only to have him drop nothing but a freaking crystal. A lot of things in XI sucked really really bad and I'm glad we are past it now.

I mean what are you people saying? You want to go back to XIV before choco and airships? you spent a lot of time walking around then too..

Wait times (and RNG drops) are put into MMO's to extend the content so people don't run out of things to do too quickly. A better solution than adding wait times is to add more content.. we can do better than just slowing things down with lots of waits.

How about Dynamis and telling everyone every run for weeks to bring RR and 10 people don't have ><

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Originally Posted by Jadi

^^ Seriously!

You know what I DON'T miss? I DON'T miss it taking 30 minutes to choco to sky only to find out someone forgot to come bard or thf and needs to go back and change jobs taking another 30 minutes so you sit around for an hour or more picking you butt so you can kill Kirin once only to have him drop nothing but a freaking crystal. A lot of things in XI sucked really really bad and I'm glad we are past it now.

I mean what are you people saying? You want to go back to XIV before choco and airships? you spent a lot of time walking around then too..

Wait times (and RNG drops) are put into MMO's to extend the content so people don't run out of things to do too quickly. A better solution than adding wait times is to add more content.. we can do better than just slowing things down with lots of waits.

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Originally Posted by Fossil924

How about Dynamis and telling everyone every run for weeks to bring RR and 10 people don't have ><

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Well sure but that kinda depends on your group I guess.. Games are better when you play them not wait in them.. that's all I'm saying.

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Originally Posted by Pandastirfry

it's always had a bunch of teleporting, Mages have had city ports since vanilla which party members don't need to have been to the city in question to utilize, meeting stones could always be used at dungeons to "summon" other party members so you weren't standing around outside waiting for your last member to show up. and your hearthstone has always had a timer of 15 minutes making it pretty easy to say, get a port to Ironforge to go to the AH and then port yourself back to a whole other continent and NOT waste 2 hours, the boats and zepplins between contents are just a 4 sec ride as it leaves port and then a loading screen. and again this has been how it was back in vanilla

There were/are tons of fast travel options in WoW, however in WoW I had way more drive to explore than I ever did in the 6 years I played FFXI and I love to explore the world, both real and virtual. The reason WoW caused me to explore more, was because not only was there plenty of content that kept you in a zone and basically lead you around the whole zone before finally leading you to the next one, there were also rare mobs or neat things to see tucked away, or even a landmark that would be familiar to a fan of the Warcraft series. FFXI's exploration fell flat for me largely because of the game's "party or die" mentality, it basically made exploration an activity to do AFTER you had completed a zone and it no longer held any kind of fear or wonder. And even then NMs either were dull looking retreads of the mobs that spawn in the zone anyway or were so exceedingly rare to see that there were several that I never saw in the whole 6 years I played. There was nothing like Un'Goro Crater's Devilsaur, which I still have no clue how that thing snuck up on me, or a few others. truly unique mobs that were highly sought after for more than just drops.

I guess what this long ramblely post is saying... I agree WoW did exploration right, because it gave you and incentive to explore and to find neat things and didn't withhold them from you based on "you need a party for this" or some other non-sense. Exploration was forced but it wasn't a case of you have to go here slowly, unlike XI's, it was a true case of "We need you to go over here and...." XI just asked you to slog through their over world (I CANNOT be the only one who thinks you both feel and look like you're running through syrup) and maybe there will be a neat light house or a pretty pond to see.

and to get back to the topic....once I've explored somewhere...yeah I'm going to take the fastest route either back there or through there, I mean hell, when you move to a new city, you "Explore" it to find the gorcery store or restaurants, once you find them, don't you look for shortcuts afterwards?

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Oh you were referring to those teleports? yeah I knew about those. They didnt mess too much up - partially because the world was already so big. But even with those teles I remember riding my mount and flight path system a lot. @Boat rides, they had a timer on when they came but yeah "most" of them got a warp. I prefer the tram between stormwind and ironforge - takes time but wasn't a 15 minute ride (rides ~1 - 5 minutes is reasonable, depending on distance).

A small handful of teleport to town spells vs the whole world in your pocket... there was a thread on this talking about bringing WHM teleport spells back. Then turned them into non job specific since there where a few people talking down at the OP for suggesting job specific talents lol

I thought holy influenced teleports where pretty good though - gods have taken a step into the world and the aethers are pretty drained.

I'm not suggesting to return forced 40 min timers but traveling the world really shouldn't be instant. However, it should be possible in a couple of minutes (more or less depending on distances and zone specific elements).

Also I really want a personal airship.. but I dont see the point of an airship if I can go 100000x faster then it with my own body at level 1. Kind of demi-god like,I'm not sure why we haven't just created "anima cannons" and blast bosses into a lava pit or something lol - level 1 solo bahamut into the void.