Why do we have to dwell on meaningless issues?

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

I knew I recognized the name.

Gamefaqs boards too, right?

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I'm not on Gamefaqs, no.

I agree on your second point about "sexism" in this game. You shouldn't be offended because the culture of FF ( A different reality from ours. ) is different from ours. Most female characters are scantily clad, and this game is no different. Even X-2 which was geared toward the female player-based dressed the characters in skimply clothes. It's just style, and we really shouldn't be harboring on it. I'm a female by the way.

But I can understand why people may feel offended by keeping out same-sex marriage. It's a principle of repression that shouldn't have a place in video games. And the fact that it's being implemented is quite honestly, insulting. Discrimination, where you're outside in the real world or playing a game is wrong in my opinion.

So you weren't known as "Sir Cloud" or anything like that?

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

So you weren't known as "Sir Cloud" or anything like that?

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Nope. That doesn't ring a bell.

Huh. I vaguely remember a FFVII CNN hoax back in 05'

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

Huh. I vaguely remember a FFVII CNN hoax back in 05'

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Oh. Yeah that one was me. Really shitty writing job in hindsight.

It was ages ago, I barely remember it tbh. I remember there being a petition on gamefaqs lol.

Fenrir was amazing.
My LS leader turned out to be a guy posing as a girl using stolen photos and a nude video of his roomie. Ensue gear gift splurge by an endgame LS, some guy falling obsessively in love with her (him), roomie finding out and telling everyone about it, and resulting Allakhazam mayhem.

You don't get quality drama like that nowadays. People just want to fuss about boob physics.

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Originally Posted by Tigercub

Fenrir was amazing.
My LS leader turned out to be a guy posing as a girl using stolen photos and a nude video of his roomie. Ensue gear gift splurge by an endgame LS, some guy falling obsessively in love with her (him), roomie finding out and telling everyone about it, and resulting Allakhazam mayhem.

You don't get quality drama like that nowadays. People just want to fuss about boob physics.

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Oh...THAT kind of drama LOL. Our LS leader on Titan posed as a female for years..then "came out" and acted like he'd never pretended, that we just somehow magically assumed him female for all those years.

And another "manthra" who fell for a straight guy...and the straight guy hooked up thinking it was a female. Boy there was drama when he found the truth. o_o

Oh lord this is amusing lol.

Someone in my LS faked his death

It was pretty cool I guess.

A lot of you mention that if people aren't happy with the choices made in the game they should simply leave. The same is true for the forums. I'm not even sure why I keep coming on here, because I agree a lot of the complaints are trivial (even some of mine). This place is a great way to kill brain cells.

Hello! I'm sorry to hear you were angered by my thread. I appreciate the topic isn't for everyone. Likewise, there are many topics I don't like on this board, but I just read them and then close the tab. Not everyone is going to like the same topic. 'Variety is the spice of life' :)

I think if we're going to talk about problems with this forum, we might want to address the issue of reading comprehension. Take yourself, for example, CSLionheart. You berate my thread, going on to talk about swimsuits, phrasing it in such a way as if I denoted I had an issue with them. That's quite unusual, considering the third paragraph of my opening post talks about swimsuits and why I was OK with them. It's quite strange people would take the time to scorn a thread, yet seemingly didn't comprehend the most basic of its content. Perhaps they only read the title?

So we now have another thread which, after ten pages, people are still lambasting my thread as hating on sexy gear. It's really strange, since if you actually take the time to read the thread, I don't ever say that I feel there should be no sexy gear. If you actually read the thread you'll notice I joke about subligars, say I like the breast size option and don't mind the coliseum gear. It's quite weird how people read things which aren't there!

But, hey, I got what I wanted from the discussion, some others actually understood what I was talking about, even if they politely disagreed with me :) but according to others I'm a basement dwelling ugly purist nerd who is most likely a man, hates all sexy gear, doesn't want a breast size option and thinks large chests are sexist. It's quite extraordinary, slightly amusing, but a little sad :(

So on this topic, can anyone suggest another discussion board where the level of reading comprehension is a bit higher? I had been warned about this forum, but I wasn't aware of any decent alternatives. :) thanks!

Honestly I'm just hopeing these types of threads, all of these that focus on the sexism and marriage topics get shut down and soon.

Hate me if you like, I really, really do not care.

I don't mind these types of threads. Especially after coming off of a Producer Letter that offered little in the way of new information.

-We now know the games delayed for two and a half months.
-Animations are... dun dun duuuun "lackluster" and will be for the foreseeable future
-Shiva was pictured but not mentioned
-Gear shown could just be class or GC gear. Not job announcments
-MNK will work differently but we already knew this

Most of it was a rehash of already released info and anything that was new was anticlimactic besides the ending video. With no game to preoccupy some of these people there has been an influx of XIV fans onto the forums.

Opinions will be made and consequences will never be the same.

Discussion is discussion, whether we're talking about the impact of breast physics or job and story speculation. The NA audience doesn't even have access to Alpha yet so everyone here is just blowing smoke out of their ass.

This includes OP and this very thread.

Threads about threads are more of a waste of time than the threads mentioned.

The players are only responding to the Q & A set by the developers.. if they felt it was important enough to mention then why are we debating if its important enough to discuss?

I agree completely. On the same sex issue, they aren't doing it because in the long run it could cost them millions in lost business by offending entire COUNTRIES of people. So what if you think those countries are 'closed minded'. Its what they believe and they aren't going to change their minds just 'cause you don't like it. So if you like SE at all, why would you pressure them to take such a substantial risk over an issue that wont REALLY make much of a difference for you? The risks FAR outweigh the benefits.
As for objectifying women...I also don't see it. I'm a woman, and I see no problem with breast physics. I'd also like realistic hair and clothing physics while they're at it too. The more realistic the animations, the better, and that includes breasts. They are a part of the female body, why should you be disgusted by them? Its not as though they're going to be going around topless.

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

Someone in my LS faked his death

It was pretty cool I guess.

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Omg i just read this thread and I actually felt sick for the people posting on that thread, it wasn't funny - it was a witch hunt.
I know totally off the topic but that's internet bullying no matter if the person lied or not. It strikes me so odd that no one thought that maybe this person was bullied by someone and didn't find any other way but to fake his death and jump servers?

Anyways, regarding this topic at hand...
I actually agree with the OP.
These forums really have the weirdest topics sometimes and I hope the dev team really filter past some of the crap that some can consider feedback.

OP, you may want to learn the following formula: "in my opinion". It would actually make me want to read your whole post.

apparently you are not an "activist." if you were, you would understand the idea of inundating others with meaningless drivel as a means of beating someone into bloody submission just to get the beatings to stop.

How awesome it must be to be a white straight male and not have to deal with such meaningless things like demanding not to be treated like a second class human being.

+1 for the female body and acknowledgement etc!

I, for one, welcome the coming implementation of breast physics.

Not "Dwelling" about issues and accepting everything SE does = Wada releasing 1.0 when even the project lead of it said it's not ready to be released.

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Originally Posted by Tigercub

Do you want a community where you feel welcome, even embraced? Where people have your back in general and you have theirs? It's not going to happen if we continue in this downward spiral of nitpicking.

We're tearing our community apart by arguing over the most inane crap imaginable. It's not a legal requirement to be contrary about everything while using the internet. If you disagree with someone, think about how important the issue really is, consider letting it slide. Nobody wants to play an MMO full of assholes who object to anything and everything - it's easier to go play a single player game. We all have the potential to not be an asshole. Seize it today. SE is doing their part, so do yours and make ARR a better place.

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There's no downward spiral. The forums have been like this since Day 1 lol. At first it was more about the actual game but as time went on and things got fixed the issues became what you see today. And now we're at a point where we don't know a whole lot about anything so we discuss what we can. Don't think the community here's getting worse though, it's always been awful.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

Not "Dwelling" about issues and accepting everything SE does = Wada releasing 1.0 when even the project lead of it said it's not ready to be released.

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Slightly off topic there much?

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Originally Posted by Draxis_Fallspear

OP, you may want to learn the following formula: "in my opinion". It would actually make me want to read your whole post.

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Sounds like that's your problem.
Not the OP's.

Oh, wait... I meant...
*Ahem* In my opinion, it sounds like that's your problem.

"Why do we have to dwell on meaningless issues?"

Because, FFXIV Forum. It is in this species nature to argue about grass, jumping, and many many many many other trivial matters.

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Originally Posted by Syrokko

Sounds like that's your problem.
Not the OP's.

Oh, wait... I meant...
*Ahem* In my opinion, it sounds like that's your problem.

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Speaking in absolutes doesn't make your point any more valid. I'm sorry if my response came across as rude, but I think it's pretty rude to say that social topics are meaningless in a social game environment. It's also a pretty juvenile way to express your point of view. But, hey, if that floats your boat, keep at it. :)

I agree that alot of these issues seem meaningless in terms of a video game , but I also agree that there is not alot of much else to talk about while we wait for the game to come out. I'm sort of neutral.


So talk away!!!! ;)

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Originally Posted by Laiferr

Hello! I'm sorry to hear you were angered by my thread. I appreciate the topic isn't for everyone. Likewise, there are many topics I don't like on this board, but I just read them and then close the tab. Not everyone is going to like the same topic. 'Variety is the spice of life' :)

I think if we're going to talk about problems with this forum, we might want to address the issue of reading comprehension. Take yourself, for example, CSLionheart. You berate my thread, going on to talk about swimsuits, phrasing it in such a way as if I denoted I had an issue with them. That's quite unusual, considering the third paragraph of my opening post talks about swimsuits and why I was OK with them. It's quite strange people would take the time to scorn a thread, yet seemingly didn't comprehend the most basic of its content. Perhaps they only read the title?

So we now have another thread which, after ten pages, people are still lambasting my thread as hating on sexy gear. It's really strange, since if you actually take the time to read the thread, I don't ever say that I feel there should be no sexy gear. If you actually read the thread you'll notice I joke about subligars, say I like the breast size option and don't mind the coliseum gear. It's quite weird how people read things which aren't there!

But, hey, I got what I wanted from the discussion, some others actually understood what I was talking about, even if they politely disagreed with me :) but according to others I'm a basement dwelling ugly purist nerd who is most likely a man, hates all sexy gear, doesn't want a breast size option and thinks large chests are sexist. It's quite extraordinary, slightly amusing, but a little sad :(

So on this topic, can anyone suggest another discussion board where the level of reading comprehension is a bit higher? I had been warned about this forum, but I wasn't aware of any decent alternatives. :) thanks!

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I am going to be completely honest honest with you, and i hope you can respect that as I am not trying to attack you per se, even though you seem to have not problem doing it in this post, but your OP was for lack of a better term "weak".

You claim people did not read your thread yet I read your post and the entire thread after (mistake on my part). You kept changing what you wanted people to take from the thread and it was really easy for people to be fixated on gear and what not as you DID mention it, with the whole picture of the hyur in coliseum thing, and other instances. While if you really dig in to it and connect imaginary dots some could extrapolate other issues you had problems with, but you were very vague. You pulled very small issues you saw, that largely seem to be your own personal experience according to others in the thread, and twisted them to inject a politically charged debate in to a video game.

It is like the dev team makes one joke during a conference then they go home and lock their wives in the kitchen. The problem is people are going too far with their politics and it is making the game less enjoyable as well as the forums.

but i digress, maybe instead of attacking an entire forums reading comprehension you should work on your ability to confidently and clearly express ideas. I know I am not the only one who noticed that your tone and "what you were trying to get across" seemed to "evolve" as the thread went on.

Can we please stop now?

It feels like 8/10 topics degenerate into arguments over semantics or a difference of opinions. I'd like to discuss topics with other players like 1.0 or ARR, but it's not worth trying because it's already strayed from the subject or a flame war by page 5 of most topics (slight exaggeration). You can discuss or you can argue, but you can't do both.

Relevant to this topic, I too find that there are a lot of pointless[1] topics, but that's only my opinion and it doesn't make me right or wrong. I think part of the reason the forums are that way now is because Yoshi-P openly thanked players for their opinions and criticism and stated that it was helpful for development (correct me if I got my facts wrong). This probably opened the door and invited everyone to /shout their opinions, entitlements, petitions etc.



[1] My definition of pointless includes topics that have already been discussed, topics we know the answer to already (via official statement), and death march topics like petitions that will never succeed or begging the devs for something they'll never do.

EDIT: It's sad that I have to specify this but I'm not trying to offend anyone. So if someone takes offense to my comment(s), don't let it lead to a rage-fueled reply.

so pretty much the last couple producer letters and this last live letter would be pointless, as they answered things would largely already knew :p lol. i mean it had a few good points but meh haha

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Originally Posted by AmyNeudaiz

You say I'm belittling his opinion while defending his opinion that belittles the opinions of others after saying my post was hypocritical... Wow, just wow.

Let me point out my argument in a simpler manner so it's more clear.

Those threads have actual context behind them as they directly pertain to FFXIV, if he (or you for that matter) wanted to voice that those threads are not important then he should of posted in those threads his opinion as he has a right to. But this thread has nothing to do with FFXIV. This thread is a thread about threads. What happens to threads about threads? They get locked because they offer no feedback to the game.

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Then this is a thread inside a thread, inside another thread.

I'm in no way defending his views of what he said. I'm defending that he also has the right to state his mind. If you were to read my words of when I posted, it was that these politics don't do anything to the core game play and don't belong in a video game. Read up dearie.

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Originally Posted by Azurus

so pretty much the last couple producer letters and this last live letter would be pointless, as they answered things would largely already knew :p lol. i mean it had a few good points but meh haha

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Yeah some of them just remind us of what we know already, but I'm glad we still get updates and news.

EDIT: I know there are limits on what they are and aren't allowed to reveal (even if Yoshida and Wada tend to use limit break :p)

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Originally Posted by Azurus

...with the whole picture of the hyur in coliseum thing, and other instances....
but i digress, maybe instead of attacking an entire forums reading comprehension you should work on your ability to confidently and clearly express ideas. I know I am not the only one who noticed that your tone and "what you were trying to get across" seemed to "evolve" as the thread went on.

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I didn't post any pictures in the thread. You clearly can't empathize with what I was talking about, and you know, that's fine; some people aren't going to. But just to say 'it's going too far with politics and it makes the game less enjoyable' - that is just your opinion. For me it would make the game more enjoyable if there was equality (I'm not sure how equality would make the game less enjoyable, but I can accept for some, they like seeing the imbalance). I am allowed to have mine and you are allowed to have yours. That doesn't mean either of us should be told to not post them. I don't go into threads about subjects I disagree with and start telling the OP they should have never posted, or making threads about how people should stop posting about opinions on developer decisions because I disagree with them. I'm also not denying the examples I gave were small ones. I said in the thread several times it's not a huge deal, it's more just food for thought on where things might go. I don't particularly want to go more in-depth with my own experiences.

You are right, what I said did evolve as I was responding to people and taking in other ideas. The core of the point and what most people seemed to be replying to and misunderstanding was the OP. I really don't mind dissenting opinions when they're explained and sensible, but for example, a three page discussion on breast size and people attacking me for ... apparently... not liking breast size option? I've been one of the people who wanted this option from the start, only mentioning it once in the thread with positivity... yes I think we have a problem with reading comprehension :/ I don't mind if people want to give constructive criticism on what was confusing about the post. I did edit in a disclaimer, if that helps, since I don't know if it was just too long for people to read it properly. I am happy to edit the wording or add summaries. Sorry if I came across rude :( I was honestly getting tired of being personally attacked/sworn at/insulted for opinions I don't have.

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Originally Posted by Laiferr

I think if we're going to talk about problems with this forum, we might want to address the issue of reading comprehension. Take yourself, for example, CSLionheart. You berate my thread, going on to talk about swimsuits, phrasing it in such a way as if I denoted I had an issue with them. That's quite unusual, considering the third paragraph of my opening post talks about swimsuits and why I was OK with them. It's quite strange people would take the time to scorn a thread, yet seemingly didn't comprehend the most basic of its content. Perhaps they only read the title?

So we now have another thread which, after ten pages, people are still lambasting my thread as hating on sexy gear. It's really strange, since if you actually take the time to read the thread, I don't ever say that I feel there should be no sexy gear. If you actually read the thread you'll notice I joke about subligars, say I like the breast size option and don't mind the coliseum gear. It's quite weird how people read things which aren't there!

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Hey Laiferr, thanks for taking the time to reply. I admit I made this topic sound a little bit more targeted than I had originally intended. But I want to be clear that despite any differences of opinion there are no hard feelings ;) So there's really no need to get defensive. That being said, there are a few things I'd like to clarify.

First, I realize that it's not the sexy gear itself you're concerned with. It's the inconsistency between the male and female versions of said gear. That much, I understand, and I think you're actually making a valid point. However, you seem to have overlooked the fact that I did indeed touch upon this fact in my post. Allow me to refresh your memory:

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Originally Posted by CSLionheart

Furthermore, how can you possibly blame the development team? Female swimsuits, and clothing in general tend to be more revealing than the male equivalent. This has nothing to do with the FFXIV dev team, this is what society has chosen to be the "ideal image" for a woman. If you don't like it, it's not this game you have a problem with, it's the real world.

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As you can see, I wasn't accusing you of being against revealing gear. What I do have a problem with is your accusations of the development team, when the real problem is not them or this game, but society itself. Unfortunately, the media portrays women wearing rather revealing clothing, which defines our perception of attractive. Call me a white knight or whatever you want, but I don't think the dev team, which has put an incredible amount of hard work into this game for the sake of the players, deserves to be accused of something as ludicrous as gender inequality. I cite numerous examples from your post (see, I did read it!):

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Originally Posted by Laiferr

It seems to me the dev team are very much encouraging the objectification of females

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Originally Posted by Laiferr

Then to go as far as to say some people on the dev team have certain 'inclinations' as if it's a funny joke.

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That's because it WAS a joke...is it really so bad for someone to admit they're attracted to the female body, jokingly at that.

Going through your post once again though, I find that last question of yours to be completely off-base and ridiculous, in spite of whatever sarcasm was intended:

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Originally Posted by Laiferr

This is also a complete aside; does anyone know if there are any females on the development team, or even the entire FFXIV team? Just curious.

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Unfortunately I don't have an actual source for this at the moment, but you do realize that the main artist in charge of gear design is female, right? Anyway, I hope this clarifies things for you a little bit. I'm not sure if you'll even read this, let alone reply, but I figured it was worth a shot.

This thread is great.

Its like a place where we can take the two most meaningless topics on the board and merge them into one super-mega meaningless topic.

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Originally Posted by Quesse

This thread is great.

Its like a place where we can take the two most meaningless topics on the board and merge them into one super-mega meaningless topic.

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Just like Bahamut, this thread cannot be sealed by the twelve.

Ok folks can we all just get a beer and some popcorn now?
http://static.grindtv.com/images/1/0.../51/141051.jpg
http://www.justdezineit.com/images/400_2555.jpg

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Originally Posted by CSLionheart

...But I want to be clear that despite any differences of opinion there are no hard feelings ;) So there's really no need to get defensive...
...What I do have a problem with is your accusations of the development team, when the real problem is not them or this game, but society itself. Unfortunately, the media portrays women wearing rather revealing clothing, which defines our perception of attractive...
...That's because it WAS a joke...is it really so bad for someone to admit they're attracted to the female body, jokingly at that...
...I find that last question of yours to be completely off-base and ridiculous, in spite of whatever sarcasm was intended:
Unfortunately I don't have an actual source for this at the moment, but you do realize that the main artist in charge of gear design is female, right? Anyway, I hope this clarifies things for you a little bit. I'm not sure if you'll even read this, let alone reply, but I figured it was worth a shot.

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Spoilering my reply to you as don't want to go off on a tangent too much

Sorry for getting a bit snippy, as I said above I was getting a bit frustrated. To be honest the reading comprehension part was more aimed at other people, too, since some of the replies are just amazingly making up opinions for me.

My counter-point would be that Square Enix are a part of society. They are a form of media. They set an example, albeit within a 'fantasy' game and within the gaming industry. They are our 'leaders'. The joke point, I think that boils down to every debate on mildly offensive jokes ever... For example some people get offended by racist jokes, jokes about gay people, jokes about the elderly, etc. Some people don't, and that's fine, but for me seeing these people I look up to saying such things, it wasn't such a funny thing for me. If it was any old person or player I wouldn't really mind. I'm glad for the reassurance that it was more a misguided attempt at being friendly, of sorts.

My last question was not sarcastic, it was something I had been wondering for a while and didn't want to put such a small question in a seperate thread. No, I didn't know the gear designer is female! If I'm right I was under the impression there is multiple gear designers? And then the guy from FFXII does characters too? Or does he just do promo art...? It would be quite nice to know the whole structure of who does what. Might be a good question for a future Q&A, who works on what.

Erm, maybe we can turn this thread into something positive...? What are peoples favourite kinds of posts? What would you like to see more of? Personally I'd like to see some more art posts, or maybe art challenge posts! I have some cool ideas for fun passing the time posts, but I've been made aware there's a lot of trolling/vitriol here, so it was a genuine question about any other possible forums/communities, preferably ones that have moderators (is there a list somewhere??)