new melding system. more casual? no thanks!

Double/Triple melding being overpowered was fun, especially if you had the gil. But I would never say that I'll miss it being hardcore, as fun as it was to laugh at people losing 10-15 million gil at an attempt to be 2% better than other people with one item. I had remarkable luck with my double melds, but it's an awful system.

Also, depending on how much they adjust the double meld percentage, it will greatly relieve the issue of what is easily the most obnoxious part of the relic quest. That alone is reason enough to be happy about this.

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Originally Posted by Hart

People don't like it when you call them casual

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They don't like it when it's said in a condescending, sneering way, when the person saying it is trying to make themselves look superior .. because we all know something that needs to be done 10000 times is so much harder than the same thing done 1000 times, for example.

i thought i was the only one who didnt like this. glad to see im not alone on the matter. I agree with the op. My luck on melds has been terrible, but thats what gives mulitimelded gear its value. I dislike the idea of it being made more "casual" very much. I just dislike things loosing their rarity and appeal, nd a situation where every tom dick and harry would have quadruple melds is not one i want to be in.

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Originally Posted by debola

i thought i was the only one who didnt like this. glad to see im not alone on the matter. I agree with the op. My luck on melds has been terrible, but thats what gives mulitimelded gear its value. I dislike the idea of it being made more "casual" very much. I just dislike things loosing their rarity and appeal, nd a situation where every tom dick and harry would have quadruple melds is not one i want to be in.

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The problem which the devs pointed out is that more people than intended were using materia as the primary twinking system for gear, rather than, as was intended, materia being secondary option if dungeon gear was not yet earned. The hierarchy per the devs was screwed up. hence the fix. plus the whole 5 inventory for 1 grade of the same materia...issue, lol. thats wholly impractical under the newly compressed inventory at our disposal in ARR.

I'd rather they just remove it, but making it useless is fine too I guess...

they're reworking stats, and they said bonus from double+ melds will be less efficent as now. With this in mind, making it more user friendly isn't a bad thing to me. Why i need to suffer for a double meld if they cease to be overpower ?

I really think Yoshi-P meant that it'll be more "User-friendly" than the common MMO pejorative term of "casual".

All the changes (higher rates on rare materia, eliminating the +16/17/18/19's and instead having 1 value per tier, increasing the success rate) seem to be focused on making materia easier to digest for the player.

Maybe I'll have a better chance of getting a 5 tier meld then, would be nice. 120+ int. Yes please.

I like the new system, but I wish I had some warning. I spent 1mil (the bulk of my gil before server shutdown) on an INT20 materia so I could single-meld onto a staff and put my BLM just barely up to Garuda standard. Now I'm finding out that I could have had an equally good staff by spending 70% less. Now I have to start ARR with far less gil than I could have.

That being said, this also means all the low-tier double-melds I have are getting a significant boost. I just hope crafting/gathering stats are the same, because I have a triple-melded Lapidary Hammer with tons of DEX, although I haven't noticed too big of a boost from that. I think I mostly look forward to having more clarity on what stats do for crafters.

The best they could do about Materia, was asked some time ago in a dedicated topic; they should:

1 - 100% meld;
2 - Have equip with 3 slots available for melds, and rarer equip with more (5, maybe 6 or 7 later on);
3 - Make Materia obtainable via chest drops, raids, HNMs etc..., other than spiritbonding;
4 - Make Materia obtained through SB less random.

this would be the perfect system, rewarding the better players and not the most lucky ones ^^

Well i welcome some extra % on the melds.... 18% seems to be more like 0% for me atm. . . .

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Originally Posted by Zyph

And here I was thinking that having epic looking gear with boss stats would really put your character aside from others.

Silly me.

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Well when developers said that Crafted gear is always going to better than dropped gear. Makes you wonder what's the point of fighting boss mobs.

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

Well when developers said that Crafted gear is always going to better than dropped gear. Makes you wonder what's the point of fighting boss mobs.

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Did they really say that? It's kinda disappointing then.

When triples are common now, just go for quad >_>

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Originally Posted by Gentaro

When triples are common now, just go for quad >_>

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Triple T4 still rare.

I would like to be able to keep up with gear progression with crafted gear. So yeah I'm all for this. Players don't only go after one set of gear in the world, and I don't much mention of the large price tag that is going to accompany said high level craft/melded gear, if I even sell it at all...

Go full speed ahead with change. They said "fluctuations". That pertains to the stat variations in a same tier. Thank god they are getting rid of that. It felt so wrong when they got rid of the +2, +3 mats just to move that to materias.... Clogs the inventory like crary.

I'd rather have slots instead of a stacked chance. I'd also like to safely meld items with different stats instead of always trying to stack a single stat.

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Originally Posted by Maxwell

Go full speed ahead with change. They said "fluctuations". That pertains to the stat variations in a same tier. Thank god they are getting rid of that. It felt so wrong when they got rid of the +2, +3 mats just to move that to materias.... Clogs the inventory like crary.

I'd rather have slots instead of a stacked chance. I'd also like to safely meld items with different stats instead of always trying to stack a single stat.

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You just made me realize that one of my retainers will be super happy. Had a bunch of STR IIIs that I was keeping for doublemelds, and had right about each of the fluctuations!

I'm all for them changing. The leaps and bounds of difference between double-melded players and those that can't afford it fosters extreme elitism, as well as a refusal to learn skills over just having higher melded items. I'm also sick of seeing content that it well nigh impossible without double or triple melded gear. That doesn't separate the skilled players from the unskilled, it separates the rich from the poor and makes the rich ones the only ones able to enjoy all the content, which is not fair at all.

Getting rid of the different stats withing each tier is a really good idea, especially since apparently we won't be able to buy more retainers. This will easily save me 50 retainer slots.

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Originally Posted by Maxwell

Go full speed ahead with change. They said "fluctuations". That pertains to the stat variations in a same tier. Thank god they are getting rid of that. It felt so wrong when they got rid of the +2, +3 mats just to move that to materias.... Clogs the inventory like crary.

I'd rather have slots instead of a stacked chance. I'd also like to safely meld items with different stats instead of always trying to stack a single stat.

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Exactly! The way it was set up, making you need to use all the same stats, some melds would easily put people above the cap and therefore be useless.

Please bring on the changes to materia SE! We don't need to have 4 different variations of 1 tier. As many have mentioned this just became an annoyance similar to the old crafting system.

I'd like to see more changes to the materia system itself. I personally feel it should be closer to the FFVII materia system where gear had slots and you went hunting for materia to fill up those slots. Pieces of gear with materia slots allow materia attachment with 100% effectiveness and anything over the # of slots would cause all materia to be lost except for the weapon. Tie this system to dungeon drops and I think we'd have something much better then the current system. Crafted gear would still be the main way to create materia thus preserving demand. While people who enjoy dungeon running for gear would not feel like all their hard work beating Ifritx can be trumped by someone getting lucky with RNG.

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Originally Posted by Zyph

And here I was thinking that having epic looking gear with boss stats would really put your character aside from others.

Silly me.

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I'm going to be plain on the main issue of this thread: The gambling mechanic in the meteria system is idiotic.

If you're wanting to identify yourself by having rare drops that are only achievable by a focus groups, go right ahead. But this should not be effective on Meteria, which is about customization.

And if I may go on a small tangent about stats and Meteria - they should allow for multiple viable builds, rather than a single rigid expectation. I know a lot of people enjoy looking down upon one another in MMOs, but it's stupid to design the game mechanics around it.

Apparently I'm one of the few people that was ok with the materia system as it was. Sure it sucked blowing things up, but when you succeeded on a really low odd meld there was a sense of elation that went with it. Can't even tell you how much I've blown up trying to meld stuff, but the successes made me happy enough to balance it all out.

That said, I wouldn't be opposed to seeing a system of melding similar to HQing a synth. Same kind of thing, a nice sense of elation goes with that. But by increasing the odds so that everyone gets multi melds it just becomes routine. At that point the joy of success is taken away because it will happen so frequently. I don't like the RNG for drops (AV/CC/Primals), but I think its fine for materia.

Edit: I do like the changes to the tiers though. Those were ridiculous.

I agree. I'm all for the same stat per tier, but I'm against tampering with the success rate.

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Originally Posted by EnkiOro

You just made me realize that one of my retainers will be super happy. Had a bunch of STR IIIs that I was keeping for doublemelds, and had right about each of the fluctuations!

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I kept a ton of materia around too, just waiting til they finally make this change.

yeah the meld system was decent way to get good gear and make good gil, i had trouble trying to trans late the meld system going casual, you sumd it up well, giving the fact i payed like 5M for one trip meld item, i dont like this at all. but i will wait and see what the full system will be. SE might have a good balanced system set for it.

Sounds like this'll be a nice change for the relic quest, assuming double meld is still a requirement.

You can tell a lot of you people that dont have trip/quad melded gear, I myself have 2 Quad melded pieces of gear. Now ask yourself this: How many relics/corslets have you seen in comparison to quad melded gear? A LOT right? to make quad/ tripple meld is extremelly difficlut IMO, and most players know that. Now that being said... Im just mad that I didnt sell them before this anouncement came out >.<

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Originally Posted by Majidah

I'm hating this. Materia customization is what could really put your character aside from others.

I don't think anyone ever complained about this. If its not broken, don't fix it, I'd say.

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Not really, with all the slot restrictions on materia everybody is basically limited to the same spots. Mostly everyone just melds the same shit to the same gear anyway so where is the uniqueness in that? Also so much materia has been completely useless. It was designed just to waste time and gil. (and boy has it ~_~)

I have always felt it was broken and I'm glad SE is reworking it.

RNG is here to stay, sorry to disappoint everyone.

There are 3 main ways that MMOs limit the accumulation of high end items/gear.

1. Random Number Generator (RNG) - Drop/success %
2. Incremental Accumulation - collect 1000 currency, trade in for item
3. Hard Limits -24hr HNM pops, Lockout timers, Top 3 Provisioners, etc.

RNG is the most popular for developers, as it makes content repeatable, it adds an element of personal excitement to completing content, and it gives casual or first-time content uses a shot at obtaining an awesome item.

Incremental Accumulation is good for players as they see progress towards their item, but it usually has to be paired with lockout timers in order to prohibit spamming (which players will do, regardless of if they are having fun or not). The other problem with I.A. is that players quickly begin to tire of spamming content and the game stops being fun -- which means developers are having to work overtime to create new content to keep people from getting bored. Casuals also will lose interest in a game where they have no chance to get an item without dedicating huge blocks of time to boring farming. Spam-able content also encourages the use of bots.

Hard Limits are the least popular with players. They hate long lockout timers, they hate being the 4th provisioner, and they hate competing for HNM claims.

**There is also a 4th option - that is Difficulty-based limits - [Making content exceedingly difficult] (Garuda, AV, etc) This is almost never used as an exclusive limit, as it means much more work for devs due to having to track down and fix exploits. In a game as complex as an MMO, there will always be exploits and once they are discovered, players will rush in and dominate the content, making it useless in a week. This means that devs need to constantly monitor the content to make sure that it isn't exploited, which diverts from creating new content.

The devs use a balance of two or more of these aspects to put limits on endgame items like Relics, Darklight, or Multi-melded gear, and RNG is always part of it due to it is the least problematic overall.

Complaining about RNG goes with the territory, but I assure you that nobody would want to play a game without it.

zan u totally missed the point.

This game is going to be for PS3... gotta remember some PS3 kids haven't touched anything big as an MMO yet... so have to be easy on them before they throw the controller at the TV :p it's good for all of us.

If you want super hardcore MMO go try something else... heard Wizardy MMO in Japan is pretty messed up (as in hard on some parts)

Pentha melded subligar FTW

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Originally Posted by Kakaarato

Now that being said... Im just mad that I didnt sell them before this anouncement came out >.<

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yeah i understand ur pain, i knew about this 3 months before server close, but the casual term threw me off and i decided to keep my melds just incase there was still a chance of low turn out on trip or quads instead of sellin because hell, SE is nerfing gil anyway xD, so your not really losing out actually..... that said now i see what casual refers to... lol

People with blind dumb luck at getting all the best gear of course are going to be mad.. OH NO!! you might actually have to play better/harder to get the great gear this time around. And like some people already stated.. just go for quad and penta melds. I'd rather see gear like the god drops from XI and NM HNM drops being the more "special" gear than gear you make, sitting on your ass alone in town, making. But I'm sure there will be some balancing of these aspects that we dont fully see/understand yet till we see it for ourselves. STOP SPECULATING AND WAIT FOR BETA/OFFICAL RELEASE.

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Originally Posted by Reinheart

This game is going to be for PS3... gotta remember some PS3 kids haven't touched anything big as an MMO yet... so have to be easy on them before they throw the controller at the TV :p it's good for all of us.

If you want super hardcore MMO go try something else... heard Wizardy MMO in Japan is pretty messed up (as in hard on some parts)

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In agreement, I don't think XIV is super hardcore. XI seemed like it was initially. XIV just seems to be more of a time sink really. Virtually everyone is able to complete all forms of content in this game, it's just variable how much time you throw at it.

It comes down to having fun or not. I want to collect as much dark light as possible for my LS. But the entire groups still enjoys spamming AV/CC to get the drops, and we're having a blast on mumble while doing it.

I don't think RNG is such a bad thing for the longevity of a game. I've had my share of bad luck spamming relic melds as well, I went 0/19 on the Obelisk. I was irritated, and broke. I went back at it after grinding some $ and went 3/4 on the Astrolobe. Certainly not an even pay off, but I was pretty happy with it. As a result of the bad melding I went out and earned enough Gil to buy my next 3 relics. Not something I enjoyed, but it beat the hell out if donating Gil to others. The point is I had a choice, and Ichose not to take the risk and be left with nothing.

The key is people perceive RNG as not being fair, when in actual fact it's really the fairest form of content in games. It's a complete gamble each time you double meld, and some people just get lucky.

I don't think all content should be RNG, and I certainly like the idea if you spam content long enough you can trade in totems etc for a reward. But I hope they leave drops like Darklight etc to RNG. It serves as a method to have players work together to outfit their linkshell. I for one like seeing the blue drop every few runs, but I'm there for the experience and fun.

In ARR I don't really care how they proceed with rewarding items and melds. As long as people an invest whatever time they deem appropriate or worthwhile to get what they need it'll be fine. If it's too much time, or too high of a risk, then don't pursue it. Again it's the players choice.

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

RNG is here to stay, sorry to disappoint everyone.

There are 3 main ways that MMOs limit the accumulation of high end items/gear.

1. Random Number Generator (RNG) - Drop/success %
2. Incremental Accumulation - collect 1000 currency, trade in for item
3. Hard Limits -24hr HNM pops, Lockout timers, Top 3 Provisioners, etc.

RNG is the most popular for developers, as it makes content repeatable, it adds an element of personal excitement to completing content, and it gives casual or first-time content uses a shot at obtaining an awesome item.

Incremental Accumulation is good for players as they see progress towards their item, but it usually has to be paired with lockout timers in order to prohibit spamming (which players will do, regardless of if they are having fun or not). The other problem with I.A. is that players quickly begin to tire of spamming content and the game stops being fun -- which means developers are having to work overtime to create new content to keep people from getting bored. Casuals also will lose interest in a game where they have no chance to get an item without dedicating huge blocks of time to boring farming. Spam-able content also encourages the use of bots.

Hard Limits are the least popular with players. They hate long lockout timers, they hate being the 4th provisioner, and they hate competing for HNM claims.

**There is also a 4th option - that is Difficulty-based limits - [Making content exceedingly difficult] (Garuda, AV, etc) This is almost never used as an exclusive limit, as it means much more work for devs due to having to track down and fix exploits. In a game as complex as an MMO, there will always be exploits and once they are discovered, players will rush in and dominate the content, making it useless in a week. This means that devs need to constantly monitor the content to make sure that it isn't exploited, which diverts from creating new content.

The devs use a balance of two or more of these aspects to put limits on endgame items like Relics, Darklight, or Multi-melded gear, and RNG is always part of it due to it is the least problematic overall.

Complaining about RNG goes with the territory, but I assure you that nobody would want to play a game without it.

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i'll take number two.

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

RNG is here to stay, sorry to disappoint everyone.

There are 3 main ways that MMOs limit the accumulation of high end items/gear.

1. Random Number Generator (RNG) - Drop/success %
2. Incremental Accumulation - collect 1000 currency, trade in for item
3. Hard Limits -24hr HNM pops, Lockout timers, Top 3 Provisioners, etc.

RNG is the most popular for developers, as it makes content repeatable, it adds an element of personal excitement to completing content, and it gives casual or first-time content uses a shot at obtaining an awesome item.

Incremental Accumulation is good for players as they see progress towards their item, but it usually has to be paired with lockout timers in order to prohibit spamming (which players will do, regardless of if they are having fun or not). The other problem with I.A. is that players quickly begin to tire of spamming content and the game stops being fun -- which means developers are having to work overtime to create new content to keep people from getting bored. Casuals also will lose interest in a game where they have no chance to get an item without dedicating huge blocks of time to boring farming. Spam-able content also encourages the use of bots.

Hard Limits are the least popular with players. They hate long lockout timers, they hate being the 4th provisioner, and they hate competing for HNM claims.

**There is also a 4th option - that is Difficulty-based limits - [Making content exceedingly difficult] (Garuda, AV, etc) This is almost never used as an exclusive limit, as it means much more work for devs due to having to track down and fix exploits. In a game as complex as an MMO, there will always be exploits and once they are discovered, players will rush in and dominate the content, making it useless in a week. This means that devs need to constantly monitor the content to make sure that it isn't exploited, which diverts from creating new content.

The devs use a balance of two or more of these aspects to put limits on endgame items like Relics, Darklight, or Multi-melded gear, and RNG is always part of it due to it is the least problematic overall.

Complaining about RNG goes with the territory, but I assure you that nobody would want to play a game without it.

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for option 2 you mention that people get tired of spamming the content, but you don't mention this issue for option 1. The problem is there for both options, the difference is that with option 2, at least, you have a sense of accomplishment with every win cause you get closer and closer you your objective. Frustration comes from option 1.

The current melding system isn't really compatible with game balance.