Cartoony style graphics....

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Originally Posted by Arcell

Really? I've always found that games with realistic graphics tend to age horribly compared to those with stylized "cartoony" graphics. I mean in my opinion Windwaker and Okami have held up better than most "realistic" shooters which prided themselves heavily on graphics upon release.

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"Stylized graphics" the savior of many games. That being said keep that neon color palette and black outlining style out of my final fantasy. If i wanted watercolors on acid I'd play WoW.

(Wind Walker/Okami, good games ^_^)

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Originally Posted by Arcell

Really? I've always found that games with realistic graphics tend to age horribly compared to those with stylized "cartoony" graphics. I mean in my opinion Windwaker and Okami have held up better than most "realistic" shooters which prided themselves heavily on graphics upon release.

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This depends on the developer because "stylized cartoony graphics" looks horribly dated if done wrong as well. Only reason those games held up for example is because the actual technique for them was still fairly uncommon. Look at games like 'The Bouncer', it aged very well for an early PS2 game, even FFX did as well. The only real issue with those games for example is the resolution the PS2 sits at, so obviously when everything moved over to 720p standard, they'll look more dated than they are.

Gameplay> Graphics ( High or low)

Storyline> Graphics

Music> Graphics

:D

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Originally Posted by Starlord

Gameplay> Graphics ( High or low)

Storyline> Graphics

Music> Graphics

:D

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Cohesive graphics > graphics

+1 :P lol

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Cohesive graphics > graphics

+1 :P lol

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That will do I suppose :P heh

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Originally Posted by KiriA500

Tarutaru didn't have individual fingers.

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Mind blown... Suddenly I feel cheated all those years of playing nothing but a Taru... *holds up hand at SE* Read between the pixels! XD

Don't know if people noticed, but the current version has different reflection and lighting effects on different materials of clothing. For example, leather has a leather feel of reflection when clothes don't have as much of the harsh reflection, etc.

In 2.0 footage (please do not use the screenshots from the limit break trailer since it may well be a CG rendered graphic and not actual in game graphics), everything seems to have similar lighting effects - that everything looks like they're made from clothes.

For the benefit of the doubt, these points can be considered as touch ups and can be implemented later in the development stage. I'm just hoping they don't overlook this.

Yeah that's why I said they're probably banking on the shaders to take care of the rest and if that fails then well..so much for that.

Also despite popular belief, MMOs don't have to look like DC style games on the PS3, they can go further than that with the graphics since unlike the PS2, it has the power to do more with it's "limitations".

Stylized graphics are a fantastic way to make a game visually appealing without having to break the bank. Years later, games like XIII and Windwaker look great. Even IX looks pretty good with a more 'light hearted' feel, much better than VII and VIII at least.

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Originally Posted by Lirion

Am I the only one who think this looks better?

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Na your not, I do kinda like it, the style of it anyway. I just wish it was a little more dark and

I'm not to keep on some of the textures though they look plastic and some a little low res, i'm hoping we haven't lost to many animations if any but it is alaph so we will see soon enough i guess..

Finding the balance can't be easy for them though, but I'm hopeful hi end PC's will get some love as well as all the low end and consoles.

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

Stylized graphics are a fantastic way to make a game visually appealing without having to break the bank. Years later, games like XIII and Windwaker look great. Even IX looks pretty good with a more 'light hearted' feel, much better than VII and VIII at least.

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the thing is, GW2 is like that, and it looks ugly/outdated...

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Originally Posted by Rokien

the thing is, GW2 is like that, and it looks ugly/outdated...

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http://cache.ohinternet.com/images/f...is_obvious.jpg

Coming from someone who thinks XIV is art, i'm pretty sure you're legally blind.

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

http://cache.ohinternet.com/images/f...is_obvious.jpg

Coming from someone who thinks XIV is art, i'm pretty sure you're legally blind.

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I am color blind, so what!

You have such in a box thinking. It's not just me who sees it as art, it's the people who made the game itself! You do know they have to DRAW and CREATE the world, right? If you do not see that as art, you sir, are something else.

Well I just have to say here's my two gil *throws it and walks off*

btw comparing gonzo to Rokien is an insult to Gonzo =P

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Originally Posted by Rokien

I am color blind, so what!

You have such in a box thinking. It's not just me who sees it as art, it's the people who made the game itself! You do know they have to DRAW and CREATE the world, right? If you do not see that as art, you sir, are something else.

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So everything that is created is art then? Keep believing that your gaming hobby is deep and meaningful. (protip: It's an MMO)

Rokien, can you please stop making all these unneccesary forum threads? You are making Sargatanas server look bad :/

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Originally Posted by Rannie

Well I just have to say here's my two gil *throws it and walks off*

btw comparing gonzo to Rokien is an insult to Gonzo =P

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I meant Gonzo is overpowered. It was a joke.

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Originally Posted by KiriA500

I meant Gonzo is overpowered. It was a joke.

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alrighty ^_^

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Originally Posted by Altera

Rokien, can you please stop making all these unneccesary forum threads? You are making Sargatanas server look bad :/

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it's not pointless, why would there be 10 pages already if it were.

Also a lot of people from sargatanas who post on these forums agrees with me on a lot of things.

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

So everything that is created is art then? Keep believing that your gaming hobby is deep and meaningful. (protip: It's an MMO)

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Protip art doesnt have to be deep and meaningful. Protip the definition of art is extremely broad.

Poems are art but yet they are not even a visual art like you would expect.

Video games, movies, stories, poems, advertisements, lunch menus, building structures, cars, pens, dance its all art and yet all very different in medium.

You can sell art, so whoever said that, and you needs to reevaluate the factual definition of art.


The above isnt considering what good and bad art is, just what is art.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

lunch menus

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Maybe in some bizarro hipster Instagram world.

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Originally Posted by Rokien

it's not pointless, why would there be 10 pages already if it were.

Also a lot of people from sargatanas who post on these forums agrees with me on a lot of things.

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9 of the 10 pages are more like "Rokien thread Hooray!" and " Insert Gonzo here" and " Stop making threads Rokien" ... It's pointless alright! :p

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Originally Posted by KiriA500

Maybe in some bizarro hipster Instagram world.

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lol, You havent been to art museums then. It can get wild. (I didnt list it because I think its fun to look at, but because I wanted it to be obvious that he needs to get off his horse on what art is and is not - it does not have to be a painting of deep and meaningful thought, that part is subjective)

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Originally Posted by Shougun

lol, You havent been to art museums then. It can get wild. (I didnt list it because I think its fun to look at, but because I wanted it to be obvious that he needs to get off his horse on what art is and is not - it does not have to be a painting of deep and meaningful thought, that part is subjective)

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Art is subjective.

so it's not art.

Define "Art" ( Don't leave out any details, and don't just say paintngs is art because there's more to it than that).

Art.. is an EXPLOSION!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2Sw7q3IE3w

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

Art is subjective.

so it's not art.

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Amazing you think that SE used no imagination or skill to create the realm. Its quite insulting to SE, and I'm not sure why you are even here if you think that poorly of their work - because I know its not the gameplay that keeps you here.

It is art, and it is good art. You cant just whip up a thousand models and toss them in the same room, there are massive amounts of considerations to make that only one skilled would do correctly.

Again, art is subjective.

So it's not art. Feel free to have a difference in opinion with me, but I will never concede to agree that a game that was developed solely for marketing value is art. If you want to disagree feel free, that's why it's all subjective.

A child uses imagination to draw a picture of a house, I wouldn't call that art either.

Nor would I call a single soup can in a pool of menstrual blood, art. (But that's a whole other thing about modern art)

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Amazing you think that SE used no imagination or skill to create the realm. Its quite insulting to SE, and I'm not sure why you are even here if you think that poorly of their work - because I know its not the gameplay that keeps you here.

It is art, and it is good art. You cant just whip up a thousand models and toss them in the same room, there are massive amounts of considerations to make that only one skilled would do correctly.

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Shougon he doesn't see the game as art. Art is highly subjective. Why do you think for paintings some people like the impressionistic styles and others different styles. Art to each person has to promote an emotional response to people for them to like it. Example some hold things in awe some hold it for it's beauty to their own eyes or the meanings it gives to them. All a pure emotional response. I remember my aunt taking me to the Parthenon in Tennessee where they have a replica (exact size and everything) of the Athena/Nike statue... I looked up at it and it was breath taking to me yet my Aunt broke down and cried because she was afraid of it and had to leave the room. I would love to go see that statue again and marvel at the simplicity and beauty of it and think also of the original one and how it could have even possibly have been made back in Ancient Greece. Remember beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder.

However by cold hard definition you are right. But a lot of people don't think of it that way they have different thought patterns and such.

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

Again, art is subjective.

So it's not art. Feel free to have a difference in opinion with me, but I will never concede to agree that a game that was developed solely for marketing value is art. If you want to disagree feel free, that's why it's all subjective.

A child uses imagination to draw a picture of a house, I wouldn't call that art either.

Nor would I call a single soup can in a puddle made of menstrual blood. (But that's a whole other thing about modern art)

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Its not subjective, read the damn definition - or don't use the word (because you don't understand its meaning). Even if you don't like the art it's still art.

Appreciation of art is subjective, that's it.

Art is anything that requires skill and / or imagination. Math is art.

Art is art, the only subjectivity of art is whether you like it or not or deem it worthy of your collection. People will pay millions for a circle on a canvas just because a popular artist does it, but some would piss on true works of art just because the artist is unknown or a 'ganster' but that doesn't change the fact something is a work of art. This is the problem with the english language though, people clearly use it in different manners.

By putting that broad a scope on it, everything is art then? I disagree completely with that. And so do many other people.

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

By putting that broad a scope on it, everything is art then? I disagree completely with that. And so do many other people.

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Because you dont like that the word everything has a broad scope you will put your own personal meanings into it? No, the word means what it means.

But it's good to know you are working on your own language called Ingolf.

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

By putting that broad a scope on it, everything is art then? I disagree completely with that. And so do many other people.

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Art is a beautiful thing.. don't dis it man without art, A lot of things wouldn't exist in this world as they do today.

Blueprints to inventions, Paintings, Gaming etc, If the world didn't have the term "Art" where would we be as humanity?

lol this is quoted from wiki about video games

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Video games

Main article: Video game
A debate exists in the fine arts and video game cultures over whether video games can be counted as an art form.[21] Some cite games such as Shadow of the Colossus, Myst and Journey as prime examples of video games as an art form.[22] Others, such as game designer Hideo Kojima, profess that video games are a type of service, not an art form.[23]
In May 2011, the National Endowment of the Arts included video games in its redefinition of what is considered a work of art.[24]

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Originally Posted by Starlord

Art is a beautiful thing.. don't dis it man without art, A lot of things wouldn't exist in this world as they do today.

Blueprints to inventions, Paintings, Gaming etc, If the world didn't have the term "Art" where would we be as humanity?

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Don't forget there would be no awesome cave paintings to show us our history and origins

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Because you dont like that the word everything has a broad scope you will put your own personal meanings into it? No, the word means what it means.

But it's good to know you are working on your own language called Ingolf.

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You need to relax my friend. I've said my piece feel free to agree or disagree with it. I see art as a subjective medium in both definition and application. If you feel differently then feel free to feel differently.

I don't necessarily agree with Roger Eberts stance on whether video games are art, because I believe that there are some artistic games out there.

I just think that calling every single video game released 'art' is cheapening the definition.

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

By putting that broad a scope on it, everything is art then? I disagree completely with that. And so do many other people.

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What you're using art for:

"This picture is a true work of art." Basically, it's something that's so good it can be called "art". What a lot of people use the word "art" for is the general sense, which is where the subjectivity of it come in, you either like or hate it, but can't deny that something is art.

For example the shading on the different materials in this game is very nice, that's good texture work and use of shaders, which is all art. Do you like or hate it? That's what most mean, rather than looking at something like say The Battle of San Romano line of works, you'd probably call that a work of art, right?

This is why I said it's just really the english language since you're interpreting it and using it in one way, others are in another way..neither side is really wrong.

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

You need to relax my friend. I've said my piece feel free to agree or disagree with it. I see art as a subjective medium in both definition and application. If you feel differently then feel free to feel differently.

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Funny image I thought of for this lol:
http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png

The word factually includes anything requiring skill and imagination (could be argued everything, but less successfully so). But it is really illogical to say that making a video game isnt an art - because its purchased, or because you dont like it. Its like saying commissioned art isnt art, even though right there in the wording it says.. "art".

Or better yet its like saying, because I don't like the game its not a game. IT is still a game, but maybe it is not a fun game. I don't like Counter Strike - its not a first person shooter because I say so.

I know you are not illogical so maybe that's why It bothers me so much.

So, it's official. Video games are art. That means we can all stop telling Square-Enix how to make their game, because they're the artist, we're the viewer. Let the muse do their work.

How to make a video game without art? If you can do that, Count me impressed!