comprehend BEFORE complainingQuote:
Originally Posted by Momita
So I can't play and tell with EU/NA/JP friends in ARR...
Printable View
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09-09-2012, 04:24 AMRicky
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09-09-2012, 05:19 AMDelsusAhh another one who thinks NA are the only speaking community, I play outside my region's prime time, so why should I have no one to play with? People who have erratic playtimes will not be able to play with regional servers... How do you solve that with your almighty regional servers?Quote:
Originally Posted by JackDaniels
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09-09-2012, 05:25 AMJackDanielsPlease read all my posts up to this point, that quote is kind of late to the party. Also, how did that post garnish a like. Learn to read people..Quote:
Originally Posted by Delsus
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09-09-2012, 05:30 AMRisae
I'm in the only german linkshell on my server and about 80% of the members cannot understand english or japanese. These 15 active players are not able play with NA/JP players because of the language barrier.
How the hell are they supposed to have fun in this game?
This is one of the reasons why World of Warcraft is so popular.
A player doesn't need to learn multiple languages. He just starts the game and plays with his fellow players who are from the same country and speak the same language. THIS makes things so much easier to communicate AND find partys.
Do you REALLY think >NEW< players who never ever played an MMO before (or maybe only WoW for example), are gonna have fun in a game where you cannot understand anybody?
I don't think even gamescom could've saved this game for the german market. Long live World of Warcraft and its regional servers. -
09-09-2012, 05:37 AMZumiThis is what Yoshi said. To me it means they will be setting up new servers in US and EU. Maybe all the current servers will become the JP region servers, and they will open up new servers for the other 2 regions. However you will be giving the choice to play on any regions servers your are not locked into picking a certain regions servers.Quote:
[Yoshida] I'll explain this one. What we mean by multiple data centers is that, until now, all of the servers have been located in Japan. However, we will be setting up servers overseas as well. With this, the server communication lag will improve for each area.
I've had North American and European players complaining that they can't dodge the eruptions from Ifrit. They would tell me "I'm dodging it on my screen! It's not my fault!" It's probably not as bad for the Japanese players... Oh, I'm sorry. I guess it is bad for the Japanese players as well! The players will have a choice of selecting a server based in their region or a server overseas.
For me I would switch to a US server as soon as its available. I do not like the UI lag and the battle lag. Being able to move out of fire and not get hit is important to me. I am 3rd generation Japanese American myself, but I only know a couple words of Japanese, but still I don't have this need or want to play with JP players like some people do on this board. I might of had an exp party with a JP players like twice but that was about the extent of my interaction with JP players. For the most part they want to keep to themselves.
They aren't going to have 2 copies of each world that link up to Japan with mirror that just wouldn't work. Seems a lot of people on here are interpreting it that way cause they want to believe the way they want it to be.
If you have JP US, EU friends in a LS you still all can decide to play on 1 server they aren't forcing like a US player to play on the US servers. I am guessing they will probably keep the servers they have now as the JP region servers. People may pick a new server if they wish when ARR comes out I would assume.
People who are complain about dead time and nothing to do at off peak times. I played WoW I can log in at 3am queue up in the raid or dungeon finder and get a group just very easily. ARR will have a similar feature with the content finder so you can queue up and find other people who like playing at 3am or whatever off time you like to play at. -
09-09-2012, 05:41 AMJackDanielsThis this this a million times this. I can't really vouch for Germans or any Europeans, I've been waiting for someone to chime in. Thank you for bringing this up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Risae
EDIT:
Just because we don't want to learn to speak Japanese/English/Whatever language and/or find innovative ways to communicate with them via means outside of the game, doesn't mean we should just gtfo. The only people who will be playing this game in the long run will be the English and the Japanese, maybe some die hard Japanophile French.
That's the impression that I got too.. lol ,_______________,Quote:
Originally Posted by Zumi
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09-09-2012, 05:47 AMMoarLegion
Written Japanese is made up of (at a minimum) 2136 individual pictograms (Kanji) and 2 46 character phonetic alphabets. Trying to say that someone could just "look them on a separate device" is complete and utter bullshit.
While I'm on the subject, Google Translate is garbage as far as actual understandable Japanese goes.
Auto-translate is honestly the best bet, and rudimentary knowledge of Japanese Grammar will provide you with the best use of it.
Maybe it's just Durandal but the JP on our sever are notoriously JP only. Hell, the fact that I can read/write/speak Japanese fluently doesn't change that either once they learn I'm gaijin. It was the same way for 11 and frankly if they wanted to do regional servers I for one, would not lose any sleep over it. -
09-09-2012, 05:50 AMJackDanielsHaha thank you for this, I lol'd on the inside when they suggested this solution, via smart phone. :PQuote:
Originally Posted by MoarLegion
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09-09-2012, 06:21 AMAlhanelemIt is just your server. On Hyperion, the JP are far more willing to play with others than they ever were when I played FFXI.Quote:
Originally Posted by MoarLegion
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09-09-2012, 06:36 AMJackDanielsI've only managed to get into one Japanese party. They were all very friendly and laughed with me.. at me.. it was probably with me when I tried to talk to them in Japanoogle. Every other time, NONONONONOJPONLY. In fact most of the Japanese shouts on my server explicitly say JP ONLY. Quite frankly I'm surprised they don't all idle in Gridania just because it's away from where the gaijins shout.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alhanelem
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09-09-2012, 06:39 AMAlhanelemIf you have EU, NA and JP friends, then you can simply coordnate with them to all join the same server. So yes, you can choose them together.Quote:
Originally Posted by Momita
THE ONLY THING THAT IS CHANGING IS THE PHYSICAL LOCATIONS OF SOME SERVERS. *NOTHING* else is changing. you can still pick *ANY* server you want. On top of that, in 2.0 you can make at least 1 character on every server. -
09-09-2012, 06:40 AMJynxWith the exception of Kanji.Quote:
Originally Posted by MoarLegion
Hiragana and katakana are extremly easy to look up. Kanji doesn't make up a whole lot of the language you see in XIV considering a good chunk of those 2136 individual pictrograms you mention don't come up in general conversation at all.
So yes you can still grasp something from using your smartphone or even hardware keyboard on other devices. It's not rocket science.
*edit*
Is it a optimal solution? Of course not but it is a viable option for those unable to copy/paste the text into google trans (Still using google translation is dubious at best when actually getting a real interpretation of Japanese or other languages) -
09-09-2012, 06:40 AMJackDanielsFor an additional fee per character? Just curious where you saw this info. Citation plz.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alhanelem
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09-09-2012, 06:53 AMMomitaLOL u think before write?Quote:
Originally Posted by Alhanelem
1. If are really Regional Server... how can we choose a server that not lag? 1 or more will be always disadvantaged.
2. Yes i can choose all server... and u can give me Ubiquity? Yes, Please then.
Anyhow if it's really Multiple Data Center that reduce lag and no segregate in regional zone, i'll be happy :))
PS. for who say that no play with EN people... i know (and me first) people that speak english not very well (u can see this from my message XD) but this don't stop us to play together... -
09-09-2012, 07:26 AMMijin
These threads are way out of hand lol. A part of me wants to get angry at the community reps for not adding clarity to what Yoshida said, but then the other part of me realizes that there is no reason for them to do so. It's already made perfectly clear in the interview.
Quote:
The players will have a choice of selecting a server based in their region or a server overseas
The players will have a choice of selecting a server based in their region or a server overseas
http://mijin.org/wp-content/uploads/.../123123124.png
^Listen to Yoshidashin. He wants to tell you something, and no, it isn't that he has a M870 hidden in his afro.
So now we will be able to play on servers in our own region like practically every other MMO known to man. (Yes, I know. Excluding FFXI.)
And here's the climatic twist to this thrilling mystery...
Data centers, ya you know, the new miracle computer that houses servers in everyone's region and magically syncs all the worlds servers together with MAGIC? They're really neat.
... ... ...
Just kidding. A data center is just a storage facility for... dun dun dun♪... get ready for it... hope you're sitting down... SERVERS!
What ever crazy stuff you guys are suggesting only exists in the land of unicorns and leprechauns. Sorry for crushing your hopes and dreams :(
I know people are just going to continue to disregard the facts until we get further conformation. I do kind of wish a rep would just confirm it so we could end the debate and transition straight to the QQing phase full force.
On a serious note I regret that some of you are going to be unhappy about this change. I personally love it, but I feel your pain because there have been plenty of changes announced I'm unhappy about. It's impossible to make everyone happy, just remember that. I think this is a positive decision for the community ad a whole. -
09-09-2012, 07:52 AMSasagawaQuote:
Originally Posted by Delsus
I have to disagree with this and will probably be shot for it.
The major PRO in my mind is exactly what the above states as a con the fact that people will mainly play during prime time and weekends and because if it was regional for example [Europe] thats a time diff of +2 to -3 GMT which fits in great with most europeans. Rather than be forced unintentionally by the mass amount of American/Asian players to play at really odd hours ranging from +10 to -10 GMT.
Lets face is the majority of people have lives and jobs so the main amount of hours available to them will be between 6-12pm (their standard time) weekdays and full day weekends. Also in order to alleviate the issue I just highlighted about UK/EU players finding it hard to do content in their own prime time SE asked players of the EU/UK to move to what was suppose to be the regional server for the EU Ragnarok, but also left it available to the public. what happened......
Well after moving from Cornelia - durandal to Ragnarok I can finally do more content in my normal play times although I would appreciate more EU/UK players to make the transfer and forget the stigma related to regional servers. But one thing is for certain because of the regionalisation in a limited manor my game experience has improved greatly.
So why everyone makes such a massive fuss over them I really dont know. ooo so i cant play at 3am in the morning...
Honestly..... GO TO BED OR DO SOMETHING PRODUCTIVE !! -
09-09-2012, 08:34 AMEnma
There is just ONE benefit from Regional Servers and is the reduction of lag communication.
There is just ONE disadvantage from Regional Servers and is the destruction of internationality of the game.
As you can see they are two main aspects of an MMORPG. I played FFXI 9 months ago and I didn't experienced any lag, although its servers are in Japan... Lag communication could be improved even without Regional Servers, physics apart. I'm waiting for more news about this topic... -
09-09-2012, 02:58 PMRiv
Segregated servers would suck. JP are the only people to play with that can actually handle anything as a PUG. And they actually use the recruit feature. Would miss being able to play with them.
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09-09-2012, 03:13 PMValmonteoh, yes you did. the game was just designed with lag in mind so you couldn't really see the affects during combat, XI suffers from the same character pop in we see now in XIV, actually the pop delay was worse in XI than it is in XIV.Quote:
Originally Posted by Enma
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09-09-2012, 04:31 PMSpellstarWow are you for real? Have you ever played any other online game before?Quote:
Originally Posted by Randelmire
It is not physically possible to add servers in you region that are also serving the other regions. That's just ridiculous. And if you think they are acting as a "relay" then you are as clueless as you sound. The internet is a mass of relays, they wouldn't need to build servers for that R O F L.
Think about this logically...PLEASE..... you move your char, you computer sends the movement of you char to your 'regional' server, the 'regional' server sends your movement to Japan, which sends you movement to other players on other 'regional' servers. That's exactly what happens now, just replace the word server with hub! Regional servers wont serve the purpose you are imagining because you still have the latency from the 'regional' server to Japan ! That is how the internet works already !
OK For those that are struggling with the concept of what is actually happening:
1. SE wants to keep you all happy BUT is expecting a lot more new players than existing ones, so most of their decisions will be based on POPULAR need, not current niche FFXIV player's needs.
2. People that dont already belong to this community will question and wonder why their latency is so high and why they have to communicate with a Japanese server. They dont care about being split up from Japan or USA of EU, they just want to connect with other players in their region on a LOCAL SERVER with low latency.
3. There WILL be regional servers. They will NOT be locked. So, yes, when you log on after launch a lot of players you know from your existing server may not be there. That will be by their choice, eg if they move to a server closer to them. It will NOT stop a player in the EU, one in US and one in JP in 1 linkshell all deciding on which server to choose and still playing together. It will just mean the EU and US players will have a higher latency if their shell decides to stick with a JP server.
Easy, no one has to cry, friends can stay together, or they can move apart if they want lower ping ! Its all about giving us choice and its done in LOTS of other MMO's (for those that have only ever played FFXI or FFXIV - no shade). -
09-09-2012, 04:36 PMZumiThere is no disadvantage. Like Yoshi P said players will still have a choice of playing on an overseas server if they wish. So you will still see people from other regions that are not your own.Quote:
Originally Posted by Enma
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09-09-2012, 11:30 PMEnmaWell, it's a disadvantage because of lag. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Zumi
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09-10-2012, 12:13 AMPlatinumstormYou heard it here guys, ensuring players can talk to nearly every person on the server for better group and encounter organization will kill the game [not to even mention how a faster response time will kill the game]. Just like the grass.Quote:
Originally Posted by Momita
lol. -
09-10-2012, 12:14 AMJackDanielsmy ping to Tokyo is 15 times greater than someone who lives in Tokyo.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Enma
LOL YERPQuote:
Originally Posted by Platinumstorm
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09-10-2012, 12:31 AMJackDanielsA) primal pugs are a lot easier when you have one fifteenth the ping compared to 90% of the rest of the world. Don't confuse skill with ping.Quote:
Originally Posted by Riv
B) The recruit function is garbage. -
09-10-2012, 12:32 AMyoshikwalla
This has already been said a billion times (I hope) but I'll post it anyway.
Multiple data centers =/= region-only servers. It just means the servers are in different places so they can be easier to connect to. Each server will still be a melting pot like they have been.
Plus, when given the choice, of (a) playing the game without latency whatsoever, able to competently do what I haven't been able to in the primal extreme dungeons and nael trollus darnus hard mode, or (b) share a server with a bunch of people whose language I don't speak who I almost never group with, talk with, or anything... I'd choose a. Just sayin. -
09-10-2012, 12:33 AMJackDanielsWhy would a japanese person connect to a server located in north america? why would an american connect a japanese server? Derrrrdederrrdederrrr :PQuote:
Originally Posted by yoshikwalla
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09-10-2012, 12:46 AMyoshikwallaBecause AMERICA.Quote:
Originally Posted by JackDaniels
http://wizbangblog.com/images/2010/06/flag1.jpg -
09-10-2012, 12:54 AMAlhanelemWell that's a load of crap, everyone experienced lag, you were just used to it, there is an absolute minimum amount of latency to japan from north america or europe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Enma
They aren't going to be segregated. Anyone can still play on any server.Quote:
Segregated servers would suck
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09-10-2012, 02:00 AMStarlord
Mine as well be segregated, Japanese already do that to us with the JP Orny, its like not playing with them at all , just give them their own regional Server and they'll be happy, Just put a Data center in EU and USA will still get rather good connection. :P
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09-10-2012, 02:10 AMRiced
You can still play and talk with your friends as said by Yoshida in an interview
Link of the interview here this information is found on the second page.Quote:
The new server architecture has brought with it a couple of additional benefits. One is the introduction of a content finder mechanism, which will help match players across servers globally so that they can play together. The other is a unified account for both PC and PS3 versions of the game, meaning that you can show off to your friends in the living room and play into the night at your desk.
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09-10-2012, 02:18 AMAlhanelemIt's not like a PC can't be connected to a TV...Quote:
The other is a unified account for both PC and PS3 versions of the game, meaning that you can show off to your friends in the living room and play into the night at your desk.
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09-10-2012, 04:19 AMMijinThis has already been said a billion times but I'll post anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by yoshikwalla
What your suggesting isn't technologically possible. -
09-10-2012, 04:21 AMMijinTrue that. Computer desks are so 1990's.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alhanelem
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09-10-2012, 04:24 AMColinoWord up yo, should hop over to my hood so we can play some Pogs!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mijin
Kawabunga! -
09-10-2012, 05:09 AMMijinWord to your mother. I'll bring my tipple size slammer and smash yo' stack foo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Colino
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09-10-2012, 05:59 AMAarosLunosNetwork Engineer here. You're wrong. First off, lets say that there is one who plays from somewhere in the central time zone. They may end up having to pass through 20 routers(hops) to Japan. But this is heavily dependent on the persons ISP and associated peering agreements that that ISP may have.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mijin
Lets say that SE sets up a data center in El Segundo, CA (guessing here because they have offices there). On the public internet, there may be 5 hops between the players location in the central time zone and California. Now assuming that SE sets up these data centers as relay points, they would very likely be communicating with the master servers in Japan via a high capacity leased line network, not via the public internet. This could cut down the number of hops between El Segundo to Japan significantly, from maybe 15 routers down to 3-6 maybe. So all in all when a player would connect to their respective relay server it would drop the number of routes required for packets to make it to Japan AND latency.
Typically the more hops you have from two given points, the more latency because every router along the way has to make decisions about which physical route the packet will traverse to reach its proper destination. On the public internet this translates to roughly 250-350ms in transit time from the California to Japan. By using a leased line network that DOES NOT touch the internet in any fashion, this latency could be dropped by 1/4 to 1/2.
The other factor in latency is how much overall bandwidth is being used on a specific link and the overall utilization. If you have a horrible ISP that aggressively over subscribes its network, then that is hardly SE's fault, because your packets have to wait due to over utilization. If there is high utilization during specific peak times for certain overseas routes on the public internet, this can also adversely affect latency for players. However leased lines do not have this issue, even for oceanic backbones due to traffic shaping and QoS.
The fact that you claim its not 'technologically possible' just displays your blatant ignorance on the matter. People shouldn't post about things they do not know. -
09-10-2012, 06:01 AMAlhanelemWhat you're saying would make sense if hops were the only factor in latency. It takes a certain amount of time for signals to travel, whether network devices get in the way or not.Quote:
This could cut down the number of hops between El Segundo to Japan significantly, from maybe 15 routers down to 3-6 maybe. So all in all when a player would connect to their respective relay server it would drop the number of routes required for packets to make it to Japan AND latency.
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09-10-2012, 06:07 AMAarosLunosThis is true, in this respect the speed that the signal travels down the wire affects latency, but far less than other factors like I mentioned. Packet switching, link utilization, and number of routers in between has a far greater affect on latency.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alhanelem
Additional devices on a specific path affects latency far more because for every packet, there are routing decisions that are made. This is significantly slower than signal speed (speed of light in a copper or optical medium)
Also to back up my assertions. In a fiber optic medium such as trans-oceanic cables, it takes 90ms to reach Japan. Just for your benefit lets argue that its not a direct route maybe the raw signal itself will need an additional 10ms. 100ms in total is pretty decent, but if your packets are bouncing between 20 different routers from the central time zone to Japan, it could add an ADDITIONAL 5-10ms per hop. I've seen trans-oceanic leased line networks with just 140-150ms in total packet transit time for around 7,000ish miles of optical cable. -
09-10-2012, 06:16 AMMijinRocket scientist/Brain Surgeon here. True story. Data centers are facilities used to house servers. What you are suggesting is technologically impossible. Using this theoretical mystery device that you suggest exists, there would be just as many hops from the client side to the magic machine, and then from the magic machine to the servers in Japan. Unless SE is going to lay a direct line from their servers to the american west coast via the bottom of the pacific ocean, and those kind of things can get pretty costly.Quote:
Originally Posted by AarosLunos
All of that aside, the actual words from Yoshida's mouth were:
Servers based on region sound pretty clear to me. Even if what you're suggesting was possible, why would players have to choose their region? It would be unnecessary. Replace the word "server" with "magic machine," and why would players need to choose it?Quote:
The players will have a choice of selecting a server based in their region or a server overseas
Everything you said in that post is based on your misinterpretations of Google search results, and blatant ignorance on the matter. People shouldn't post about things they do not know anything about. In conclusion you are a liar liar, and your pants are obviously on fire.