A Realm Reborn Items Menu

i want to arrange items 1 by one, to place them w/e i want

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

Because for people using keyboard and mouse, menus with list and s**t you have to scroll through are terrible. There's a reason why most modern MMOs have icon based menus: it's because you can fit a lot more s**t in a single window and you make it faster to navigate.

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I was going to fully ignore this thread, but I cannot let this pass.
I am terribly sorry, but being an advocate of the usage of keyboard and mouse, I still say explode that stuff (not to use more colorful words) to icons. I find those really, really hard and anti-intuitive to navigate plus auto-sorting is non-existant to a suitable level, I much prefer lists.

having a drag/drop item menu allows for easy customization and storage of items and quick mental processing due to color examination versus complete title examination.

If I posted several lengthy sentences in different colors you could identify what color the item was instantly [support color blind mode!] but not the text, which requires further examination.

These are great reasons why the "backpack" feature is standard in MMOs, not because it's old and tired.

The farther this new version gets away from FFXI-esque UI set up and controls the happier I am.

I am struggling with icons already that look quite similar (second wind and dark seal for example) so I absolutely support lists.

That's cause they are the same icon minus the fist or wand underneath.

When the game shifts to an icon interface they will undoubtedly be better about making all icons look unique. There is mouseover popup help to tell you what everything is anyway.

I want to see Text, graphics and description all in one scroll down!! I alter from keyboard to controller and the PC version demands that I use the damn mouse too(oh,well, it pleases everyone at once).

There's nothing better that a cool icon(as to seeing a logo for a company that's well known). And for every icon(or logo) there's a cool description(or slogan). As with windows, the menus can be optimized to the users preference(like grid-locked or arrangeable).

Either or, what ever we get in 2.0 people are going to have preference, we're just lucky the producer (and the DEVs) are going out of their way to deliver. Hopefully all this crummy UI crap will blow over and we actually get a game (with content and expansions) going! GG SE,"feed the babies their bottle of milk so they can grow to be big and strong", even if they're newbies to FF.

2.0 Item menu seem werid. All those dots on screen. Do we really need 25 limit bags. 4 Bag total. Thats 100 slots for items.

Think what they should do is just add a Icon that brings you to a Menu with all 4 or even more bags to your menu. From there select the bag you want.

Having multiple bags helps you organize (1 for mats, 1 for consumables, etc) and I believe they said that you could set up your bags so that the correct items go into the specific bag you want them to go to automatically. There's no need for an extra menu because it's an extra button press that is unnecessary when just opening your inventory brings up all your bags at once so you can see your entire inventory nice and quickly.

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Originally Posted by Tiago

Hello guys!
I was wondering if i was the only one thinking how stupid the 2.0 item menu looks and how it looks exactly like most of other mmo's? Like Aion and WoW and Runes of Magic..... Why not continue with an item list like XI had? it was great so we could see all the items in just a menu, and also just order the items on the list... instead of maybe ordering the items and checking all the tabs to see where the ICON is or just keep selecting all items to check their names.... In my opinion, this new items menu is silly and it wont be any better of what we currently have but actually prob worst. I hate the new item menu looks and i think XIV is copying way too much from other mmo's instead of innovating stuff and putting diferent ways of menus and all that than all other mmo's. All i heard ppl from WoW saying about games that has something like WoW is "Oh look... another WoW copy, they are so good that they cant make their own stuff and actually have to copy". I was mostly looking for 2.0 to bring new good looking stuff instead of copy of other mmo's that i already played. "We want to make it easy for players that come from other mmo's to have the an easy time getting into the game", so with that they started copying their menu looks and some features because it will happen to make the other ppl's 'getting into the game experience' easyer? Seriously, in all this long, i though XIV was gonna look really good and with alot of new stuff, but aperently they just changed stuff to copy's of other mmo's.

I know its too late to change alot of the actualy menus, but the Items menu its what makes me rly sad about 2.0 that we know so far.

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well a item list sucks much more than what we saw for 2.0.... seriously... this "scrolling 5 minutes down to reach the last item" sucks..
seriously, you cant be serious?!
And i can drag&drop my items now how awesome is that?! thats not copying MMorpg stuff.. thats standard control for the PC... offline rpgs have a similiar item menu as well.


its just sooo much better.. than a hundred metre long list... cant stand your opinion seriously. it was horrible back then and still will be.. especially when playing with mouse and keyboard.


thats an awful opinion. i think MOST of the players will be happy not to see such a crappy inventory with bad controls. (click it... click to confirm, that you want to equip your item...) seriously... NO!

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Originally Posted by Skies

I find those really, really hard and anti-intuitive to navigate plus auto-sorting is non-existant to a suitable level, I much prefer lists.

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you find drag something and to drop it into your equipment menu is anti-intuitive?!! its better to click it-> chose slot-> click again to confirm it and wait 2-4 secs. better or what?! are you sick or somethin? O_o sorry..

and lists are a mess! you have 200 slots at the moment right now.. that means 200 hundreds of slots which you have to scroll DOWN!! and you dont find anything.
thats a mess, and not intuitive..!

did you just played FFXI, that you have an opinion like it? awful... awful..




fact is... the current Item Menu (endless lists) and interface delay is the most horrible thing, i've ever experienced in a game EVER. (people quit because of it) i just cant believe what i just read.

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Originally Posted by Skies

I was going to fully ignore this thread, but I cannot let this pass.
I am terribly sorry, but being an advocate of the usage of keyboard and mouse, I still say explode that stuff (not to use more colorful words) to icons. I find those really, really hard and anti-intuitive to navigate plus auto-sorting is non-existant to a suitable level, I much prefer lists.

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There's no sorting feature that lists have that can't be implemented by a grid system. The underlying code that determines item order stays the same.

And since you brought this up, do you feel that your signature listing your class levels is unintuitive to read? Do you feel that since it's not a list, it's not sorted and people can't navigate it?

I thought it looked amazing compared to the crappy and slow one we're using right now...

This is what Yoshida said in an interview and I agree 100%. I'm so glad some of you are not in charge of designing this game. Why try and reinvent the wheel when there is a standard that WORKS and works really well? There is a reason almost all the other MMO games on PC use it.

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Could you please explain the basic goals for Mouse+Keyboard mode and gamepad mode?
Y: For Mouse+Keyboard mode it’s “Global Standard”. Basically when players from “World of Warcraft” and players from “RIFT” play Final Fantasy XIV they don’t have to check the keybind to play.

That’s bold idea and some will have negative comments for this one. They would say why didn’t you go with original.
Y: For this one I have a clear answer. I like FPS games and I play them a lot but no matter which game you play the key assign for fire is all same right? Having a original keybind doesn’t make the game fun. In a MMORPG moving from one to another is hard so in a game which you lived in 3 years, 5 years and moving from one country, depending on environment you have to move to a completely new planet and the stress when moving from one to another is very high. If the UI’s are same you won’t feel as much stress. In order to succeed in an MMORPG I believe that’s the minimum requirement. For mouse+keyboard movements there are standards and I believe changing it because it’s convenient isn’t the way to go every time.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

There's no sorting feature that lists have that can't be implemented by a grid system. The underlying code that determines item order stays the same.

And since you brought this up, do you feel that your signature listing your class levels is unintuitive to read? Do you feel that since it's not a list, it's not sorted and people can't navigate it?

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See, that's the thing. Right liek, 20s after I made that post I went on that spiel with my friends and I figured out I must be the only one to think this way.

But- The signature and the inventory have a single particular difference that makes, well, all the difference. The signature's elements are static, the level values might change (and heck, it was quite confusing when I changed signatures, because the other one's got bugged and I had to change styles), but there is nothing added or removed from it.

Now picture you having to stop after each and every battle to re-sort your bag because of loot.

Augh, that causes me nightmares. There is a single big problem with sorting on grids, the fact is that a grid is a GRID, which means it extends on the X and Y axis, so the next item on the list could either be to the right or below the item, both equally viable, both also end up 'wrapping over', causing possible confusion!

Also to the person who said I was used to it from XI... I... Actually never played that game. In fact I simply hate playing inventory tetris and hell, ALL of my computer is configured to show stuff in lists instead of icons, even did as much as I could with my desktop.
Other MMOs i've played included Ultima Online (the mother of bags in MMOs!), Ragnarok Online (which is essentially just one bag, does not uses a list) and City of Heroes (holy crap the salvage fucking tab, so awful, so fucking awful). So as you can see, all bags, all bad.

But i've resigned to believing i'm the only one who simply prefer lists, specially if they offer added details like spiritbind %, condition, materia and sell price without having to mouseover.

Regardless, the UI will be moddable, I WILL learn whatever language, even if it has to be goddamn assembler, and change it to my tastes, no need to be a bother to everyone simply because i'm in the minority here.

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Originally Posted by Skies

See, that's the thing. Right liek, 20s after I made that post I went on that spiel with my friends and I figured out I must be the only one to think this way.

But- The signature and the inventory have a single particular difference that makes, well, all the difference. The signature's elements are static, the level values might change (and heck, it was quite confusing when I changed signatures, because the other one's got bugged and I had to change styles), but there is nothing added or removed from it.

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I meant more about being able to find something at a glance, even for someone who's not already familiar with the layout of your sig. Icons work because the human mind is able to correlate both pictures and words with concrete thoughts and concepts. After the initial learning phase of learning what the icon is, there is no problem finding something even in an unsorted grid (unless, of course, and I'm not trying to be offensive here, you have a disability that prevents that).

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Now picture you having to stop after each and every battle to re-sort your bag because of loot.

Augh, that causes me nightmares. There is a single big problem with sorting on grids, the fact is that a grid is a GRID, which means it extends on the X and Y axis, so the next item on the list could either be to the right or below the item, both equally viable, both also end up 'wrapping over', causing possible confusion!

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The underlying code for how the items are held in memory on the server does not change. Any kind of sorting that you do with a list will be available on a grid, including the autosort that we have now. Each slot in a grid is numbered as though it were an item on a list, and then the appropriate item is added to that slot when the sorting occurs.

http://i.imgur.com/BEKQw.png

The two dimensions that are presented to you on the front end are an illusion, because the items are going to be stored in a one-dimensional list/table/array on the backend.

We get mouse&keybord UI and a gamepad UI for PC. And we can change the UI with Add-Ons to our liking

We have options. Use the options if you don't like the default

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Originally Posted by Estellios

That's cause they are the same icon minus the fist or wand underneath.

When the game shifts to an icon interface they will undoubtedly be better about making all icons look unique. There is mouseover popup help to tell you what everything is anyway.

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What we've seen of 2.0 so far seems to show that they've redesigned a lot of the action icons, which is good. Too many of the weaponskill icons look almost exactly the same, which is something that I've disliked since beta. Icons -- action bar icons especially -- need to be visually distinct.

Hopefully item icons will get the same treatment.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

The two dimensions that are presented to you on the front end are an illusion, because the items are going to be stored in a one-dimensional list/table/array on the backend.

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Yes, I am aware.
It is an illusion is deeply dislike.

But as this one says

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Originally Posted by Felis

We have options. Use the options if you don't like the default

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Which is what i'm going with! I'll just find my way, the beauty of having a customizable UI! One of the things i'm pretty excited about.

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Originally Posted by Hulan

As someone who designs UIs in one form or another quite often - the golden rule should always be "First, do no harm". Between cascading menus, non-optimal search algorithms, and failure to follow genre conventions, the 1.0 interface broke that rule in spectacular fashion. It may come as a surprise to some that the very last thing that dictates a good interface is how "good" it looks. That, of course, comes into play; but only after everything else has been dealt with.

As apposed to the 1.0 interface, the 2.0 interface looks quite well tuned to it's platform. Information is presented to the user in a compressed fashion without overloading them (I particularly like how they've compressed the equipment, stat allotment, and character info pages into one page). Similarly, everything response the way you would expect given the platform: context menus when right-clicking, drag-and-drop icons, hover-over tooltips. These are all things that people expect when using a mouse and keyboard. It has nothing to do with MMOs, or even games. It's learned behavior from years of day to day use on a computer.

Everyone will have personal visual preferences, but the ability to easily access controls - in this case items from your inventory - is ubiquitous and essential. What is "right" is entirely dependent on your platform. I would not be making this argument for the PS3, for instance. "Simplicity" depends entirely on user input. On a PS3, having a list-page like control makes more sense, given the absence of some 200 keys.

As for the problem of not being able to tell one log from another. The solution is deceptively simple: Don't make your players select items to craft. Design around your UI limitations and no-one will even notice they are there. If to craft an item, you just open a journal and select the thing you want to make and it starts the synth process as long as you have the materials, there's no need to hunt down the materials.

Honestly, between gearsets and the recipe book we've been promised, I don't foresee Inventories being used for much other than asking "how much space do I physical have on me?" Besides, while this is somewhat of a cop out, if you seriously want to be able to see the names of items next to them at all times (or even a list), it sounds like the user created content will be robust enough to allow you to make a mod that does that.

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Quoting this again because people are still breathing through their mouths in this thread.

I kinda agree too the UI on the new on looked kinda subpar... I was looking forward to the 2.0 but when i looked at the video carefully and saw the UI i could clearly feel my enthusiasm die down :( i tried to ignore it tho...

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Originally Posted by Antanias

It's a pre-alpha build, it may not look the same after launch. Also, it's better than what we currently have imo.

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those words ... since 2010... trauma >.>