Opinions on Crystal Tower: Labyrinth of the Ancients and Syrcus Tower

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Originally Posted by TBerry

What part of "it's not a job" do you not understand?

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That’s what I’m asking you

If your only answer to why CT is fine is because it’s quick then why are you even doing roulettes

I mean “it’s not a job” right? Just don’t do the roulettes

i think that a big part of it isnt the raids themselves but the fact that when synced down u play a really boring version of a job that is not fun to play. I dont particularly like void ark either but im still glad it isnt crystal tower cuz i have a bit more of my rotation usually.

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Originally Posted by Minarisweet

i think that a big part of it isnt the raids themselves but the fact that when synced down u play a really boring version of a job that is not fun to play. I dont particularly like void ark either but im still glad it isnt crystal tower cuz i have a bit more of my rotation usually.

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This is how I feel about getting the Endwalker alliance raids in roulettes. Those fights are just as braindead steamrolled as Crystal Tower, just flashier (I literally only refer to them as "level 90 CT"....), but at least I have more buttons to press to keep myself entertained.

The amount of groups I'm seeing wiping or going one healer away from a wipe because CT teaches them that nothing hurts much and you can have all the stack markers in one spot is insane.
Every time I see multiple stack markers anywhere outside of CT, I can except 4-7 people to get blasted out of orbit because the very first AR the game forces them to do teaches them it's alright to do so. Seriously, who greenlit that change? It was fine before.

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Originally Posted by TBerry

What part of "it's not a job" do you not understand?

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It's not a job, but it shouldn't be a lobotomy simulator either is what we're saying.
You have plenty of other ways (and way more effective at that) to get tomes if that is what you're after. We're trying to vouch not only for our personal experience running these ARs, but for the players coming after us who are learning from them.


imho, those who don't want it changed simply because it is comfy are being selfish. CT actively teaches sprouts pretty bad habits that they carry straight into Ivalice, Eden and current content.

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Originally Posted by TBerry

It's a game not a job.
People are allowed to do something easy in the game.

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easy =/= braindead

I tried joining a min il run of labyrinth a few years ago during EW patches, we didn't get past Behemoth

Really makes me wonder how it was back when it was new with ARR's job complexity

I'm so, so sick of them. They aren't fun, they're boring as hell but people just want their 10 minute clear so what can you do.

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Originally Posted by Remolia

easy =/= braindead

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I got Lab last night for Alli rou and yeah, I was falling asleep I'm not even joking.

Easy = / = Boring

If the literal only mechanic a boss does is "run away from a circle" the content is going to become extremely boring, extremely fast. And if I wasn't going to suffer a 30 minute queue ban for refusing to suffer through a 10 minute raid, I'd sooner immediately just leave instead.

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Originally Posted by Azurarok

I tried joining a min il run of labyrinth a few years ago during EW patches, we didn't get past Behemoth

Really makes me wonder how it was back when it was new with ARR's job complexity

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I joined one of those around that time, too! We cleared, but it was SPICY.
Healing that was so much fun.

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Originally Posted by Azurarok

I tried joining a min il run of labyrinth a few years ago during EW patches, we didn't get past Behemoth

Really makes me wonder how it was back when it was new with ARR's job complexity

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When it first was new it was two tanks instead of the one tank we have now.

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Originally Posted by HyperiusUltima

I'd like to know people's opinions of them because there's been some talk about how it has been getting in the way of relic since patch - and both first impressions and later impressions welcome.

I'll start by saying that when I did Labyrinth and Syrcus before WoD when ARR was the current story, I didn't feel like it was a braindead slog. It actually was pretty fun. Though, nowadays since our damage as a whole is so strong, I just feel like both of them aren't really fun anymore and it's moved to the side as slop. Void Ark still shows mechanics at least, even if it gets ran over pretty quick still, and Alliance Raids don't actually start to present a challenge until you do the Weeping City of Mhach.

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My favorite part about Crystal Tower and Lab is that the devs said they fixed the queues so you were more likely to get Level-relevant Alliance raid queues and stop getting Crystal and Lab all the time.

Only for that not to be the case.
And that queueing alliance raid it's more like it went from 100% of the time crystal/lab to it only now being 99% of the time

Meanwhile, I have to wait 16-20 minutes whether I'm healer or dps to do the brand new FF11 raids for the damn coins that everybody should (don't wanna say logically) but possibly be playing since it's the newest casual thing you can do.

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Normally I don't rant about things in the game but since I spotted this thread I figured I'd use it to vent.
Alliance Raid basically equals Crystal or Lab it should lean more towards level relevant which is what they said it would be but instead I'm playing stupid games and winning stupid prizes. (Oh well, least I'm not one of those lame people who literally abandon as soon as they see it's crystal or lab - - I'd probably do so for nier lmao but realistically abandoning a raid I don't like just seems unfair to the folks who are there for fun)

Between the long queues for newer alliance raids to perpetually getting Crystal Tower/Lab - I almost feel like there's absolutely zero point to the content, it's like a theme park ride but with a really long line, feels like a waste. (I'm not even one of those people who hate playing my jobs at lower levels I just figure newer content should have some form of priority even if it's artificial you know to sell the current product? and not something made over a decade ago that arbitrarily became a msq requirement)

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Originally Posted by Azurarok

I tried joining a min il run of labyrinth a few years ago during EW patches, we didn't get past Behemoth

Really makes me wonder how it was back when it was new with ARR's job complexity

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So there was two things in effect essentially back when it was current:

1) Like today, people are used to run the raid and know it like the back of their pocket eventually. Makes runs a lot smoother, even if yes, you had to actually respect the mechanics (bone dragon especially couldn't be bruteforced like today, behemoth had towers to be dealt with)
2) Even when it wasn't current anymore, like in late ARR or in HW, there was no Alliance Raid roulette yet in the game, so everybody forgot about the mechanics until one was added into the game and mechanics were barely relevant by then.

what kind of minilvl run was that? i joined a minilvl crystal tower run for all three raids and we've barely seen more mechanics than usual. (also in EW)

behemoth wiped us a few times but thats pretty much it. all the others died as usual without showing many mechanics.

the one boss in syrcus tower where the platforms catch fire and you have to jump from platform to platform? right we didnt see that mechanic either.

a streamer organized these runs with his community, which has some raiders but consists of mostly casual players.

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Originally Posted by Asari5

what kind of minilvl run was that? i joined a minilvl crystal tower run for all three raids and we've barely seen more mechanics than usual. (also in EW)

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I don't exactly remember, I joined an organized group from a Twitter post (???) but it might have been MINE in my case? I don't quite remember anything else, I was healing and there were a lot of bleeds going off, specially at Behemoth, so I was very busy pumping out heals and regens like a maniac, and we did wipe once to him I think.
Wouldn't be surprised if some people turned up without their job crystals or in trash gear for the memes.


I think the only spicy one was Behemoth really, last boss didn't have much going on and WoD was pretty much the same so we didn't even bother with it, I believe? It was fun, though!

Think it was also close to a blind run as well? I just joined via partyfinder. It was mainly Bone Dragon and Behemoth walling us but iirc the group also wasn't exactly stellar at coordinating either.

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Originally Posted by Asari5

what kind of minilvl run was that? i joined a minilvl crystal tower run for all three raids and we've barely seen more mechanics than usual. (also in EW)

behemoth wiped us a few times but thats pretty much it. all the others died as usual without showing many mechanics.

the one boss in syrcus tower where the platforms catch fire and you have to jump from platform to platform? right we didnt see that mechanic either.

a streamer organized these runs with his community, which has some raiders but consists of mostly casual players.

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If that’s the case even at Minimum iLv, then the fights are overdue for a rework.

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Originally Posted by Azurarok

I tried joining a min il run of labyrinth a few years ago during EW patches, we didn't get past Behemoth

Really makes me wonder how it was back when it was new with ARR's job complexity

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Syrcus Tower had actual mechanics that were murderous at every turn. Scylla was my favorite because you needed to really deal with the freezes and puddles to not unstant wipe from flare or just fail DPS checks, while also avoiding nuking everyone from not powering towers. You needed to know how to do so many things since you never knew if you were getting an orb.

The real pain point was World of Darkness. The very first junk pull with Chimeras could wipe alliances. Angra Manyu's add phase would stack AoE damage so rapidly and was a tight DPS check. And Cloud. Dear lord, Cloud's bad breath phase after the 3 party DPS check was downright unfair when everything was hitting 3x harder.

But it was FUN. You could learn the fights and pull them off and it felt GOOD. It was every bit as wild and messy as brand new 24-mans and their requirements were.

Asking my friends to come along was like pulling teeth, too. It was way too much for the average player, but that level of difficulty was the perfect sweet spot for me, personally. Man, now I miss it.

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Originally Posted by Azurarok

Think it was also close to a blind run as well? I just joined via partyfinder. It was mainly Bone Dragon and Behemoth walling us but iirc the group also wasn't exactly stellar at coordinating either.

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Behemoth has an entire tower mechanic that involves the electricity damage hitting the entire alliance that was a little nebulous even on content. I barely remember how it work beyond the fact we had to do something with them and the adds. All of witch is entirely ignorable now.

Honestly I think the only fight that still works as intended is Phlegethon in Labyrinth, amd it's mostly because his mechanics are fast enough to see them all while also still killing greedy players with his one-hit kill that needs to alliance to run away to sheild.

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Originally Posted by RedLolly

Honestly I think the only fight that still works as intended is Phlegethon in Labyrinth, amd it's mostly because his mechanics are fast enough to see them all while also still killing greedy players with his one-hit kill that needs to alliance to run away to sheild.

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I wouldn't even say that, I haven't seen the second Ancient Flare in ages...

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Originally Posted by VeyaAkemi

I wouldn't even say that, I haven't seen the second Ancient Flare in ages...

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It comes up every once in awhile. Sometimes I get hit with an Alliance so low on dps I am bewildered and we have to deal with that second one.

On their own they're fine and I like Syrcus Tower and WoD. The problem is that we're always getting those in the roulette when there are more interesting and fun raids to do in the game.

I want to get more Ivalice (Orbonne my beloved) or Nier raids for example, something that will allow me to press more buttons instead of just going through the motions.

They only way I nowadays endure the boring ass ARR Alli Raids is having something open on my second monitor and watch it instead.
I barely have to pay attention to what I am doing anyways and pressing 1-2-3 does not even require me to look at it.
Mechanics barely hurt and I only gotta look at FFXIV when running between bosses and if I get Laby for Ancient Flare....

WoD I gotta pay more attention, but I usualy leave that one cuz It bores me and I get it too often.

I'm at the point where i want too see max level players who force everyone into the CT AR's be punished for wasting peoples time.
I don't mind helping sprouts and feel maybe the CT raids should be added too MSQ roulette instead of AR, but those players who are 100, not sprouts and have intentionally not unlocked AR's other than CT? yeah something needs to be done about them.

I have been running AR roulette for as long as its been around and damn near every day its the same 2 or 3 AR's. Its infuriating and boring.
I don't care that a few Aholes want them because they are easy, the rest of us want some variety and yaknow, fun.

Working on my relic for DT stage 2 took forever because i kept scoring only ARR content, We still have to put in the time to run them despite how dull they are, we should be rewarded for our time too the same level as any other content, otherwise section ARR and HW content into their own roulette's so those of us fed up with them, can skip them, Hell, add a sizeable reward for doing them to compensate for the frustration and boredom.

Again, the only way we can "force" the AR roulette to have more than the CT series is if MSQ requires another series to progress. I would assume the Ivalice raids are the most likely candidate of what we already have for future content.