Relic being tomestone step AGAIN is incredibly depressing

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Originally Posted by Altina_Orion

For the sake of not panicing, ShB was also the same - first step was 1500 tomes. That relic ended up being MUCH more involved by the time it was complete.

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The ShB step of the relic came with gangos before southern front released

This step is actually coming with south horn which is a bigger issue

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Originally Posted by Altina_Orion

For the sake of not panicing, ShB was also the same - first step was 1500 tomes. That relic ended up being MUCH more involved by the time it was complete.

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I'd place my bet on each additional step of the Dawntrail relic weapons being the same as the first: A one-time "grind" followed-by 1500 uncapped tomestones per weapon.

This game has seen a lot of its rough edges sanded off over the years (let's set aside any discussion of whether any of that sanding went a bit too far...), and with DT's 21 combat jobs vs. ARR's 10, and SE's seeming alergy to changing things up too much mid-expansion, I feel like the structure of the first step will be repeated for the future steps.

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Originally Posted by ServerCollaps

actually its hunt trains and s ranks xd

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Sure if you want to rush and get all the relics done in a week or two. After that I'm sure you will be complaining about nothing to do in the game.

I got all the EW relics for every job before the next step came out just from doing a few daily roulettes now and then. It gave me something do to by not rushing.

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

I assume it'll be like this step every time, one relic grind type activity to unlock the ability to buy the weapons with tomes. I think it's a good middle ground for people who want to get all the weapons vs people who want a grind.

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Yes, I don't mind the tomestone "grind".. I just wish the relic content had been added at a point when I was still running daily dungeons for Mathematics and those Heliometry tomestones were flowing in quickly and naturally. Just one of those "would have been nice" things.

I can't even think of something that would be better than just tomes with how the content is set up. We're just going to get like 5 CE-spams, aren't we?

Like, Bozja had Skirmishes/CEs, Castrum, DR, and Dalriada. Occult Crescent just has FATEs/CEs. They can't put a relic step in Fork Tower. We don't have a Pazuzu. There's only one more zone coming and it's not until 7.5x and they weren't even initially planning a normal mode for the next tower. I don't think there's even enough camps to chain at for a vitilated aether step. I really don't know how they're going to have the relic be interesting with Occult Crescent being what it is.

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Originally Posted by Stasya

Sorry bud but we are getting yet another tomestone relic.

If game designer, who was in charge of making quest for relic, had above room temperature IQ, there would be AN OPTION either to grind atmas then exchange for metal -> relics or to just buy metal with tomes.

We literally got tomestone relics again, they did not even think about "what if people got more atmas than needed for first relic" part ....... What do i do with them? Beg SE to hire C++ intern to make a proper repeatable relic quest?

I can't wait for yoshida to be on a high horse on next live letter and troll people with "OC was very well received content".

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THey actuallys tated they learned from their mistake of the EW relic and won't make future relics that easy to get. Before people say manderville was the best in slot it wasn't the p12s weapon has better stats then the manderville complete weapon. I used to have both and i didn't even do manderville until i finished DT

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Originally Posted by Mercury_Grey

Before people say manderville was the best in slot it wasn't the p12s weapon has better stats then the manderville complete weapon. I used to have both and i didn't even do manderville until i finished DT

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So confidently wrong

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Originally Posted by Stasya

Sorry bud but we are getting yet another tomestone relic.

If game designer, who was in charge of making quest for relic, had above room temperature IQ, there would be AN OPTION either to grind atmas then exchange for metal -> relics or to just buy metal with tomes.

We literally got tomestone relics again, they did not even think about "what if people got more atmas than needed for first relic" part ....... What do i do with them? Beg SE to hire C++ intern to make a proper repeatable relic quest?

I can't wait for yoshida to be on a high horse on next live letter and troll people with "OC was very well received content".

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That's a primary concern regarding farming Demiatmas. There should be an option to trade the extra Demiatmas for the ones you need. Instead, they clog your inventory. Given that Demiatmas are tied to CE and fates, it is unclear why they did not consider this alternative, considering the likely presence of a few extras in hand.

Controversial opinion: casuals don't need to farm all relics.
I think having one set of atmas per weapon would be better for 90% of players. Casuals who want 1-2 cool weapons, ultimate raiders who need a weapon for top and achievement hunters that just want to grind.

If it's too much grind just make the steps shorter. I don't think it matters if you farm 5 atmas per set instead of 6

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Originally Posted by apa-niwe

Controversial opinion: casuals don't need to farm all relics.
I think having one set of atmas per weapon would be better for 90% of players. Casuals who want 1-2 cool weapons, ultimate raiders who need a weapon for top and achievement hunters that just want to grind.

If it's too much grind just make the steps shorter. I don't think it matters if you farm 5 atmas per set instead of 6

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Hard disagree, it's either relic or normal raiding for casuals.
Ultimate raiders have no need for the relic since it's worse than the tome weapon.

Having atma be a one time thing is a good thing.

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Originally Posted by XtremePrime

Hard disagree, it's either relic or normal raiding for casuals.
Ultimate raiders have no need for the relic since it's worse than the tome weapon.

Having atma be a one time thing is a good thing.

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But relics are grind achievements first, catchup weapons a distant fourth

Making relic weapons easy to get because they can be used as catchup weapons defeats the purpose of relics when tomestone weapons already exist

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

But relics are grind achievements first, catchup weapons a distant fourth

Making relic weapons easy to get because they can be used as catchup weapons defeats the purpose of relics when tomestone weapons already exist

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Then they need to add non-raid tied tomestone weapons if they want to keep the relic as a prestige thing and give casuals a way to acquire a max level weapon that can do content without needing to collect blades for N-weeks on end.

I also don't agree that phantom weapons will be strictly for the achievement first because this is a huge Eureka smell, and Eureka relic had elemental bonus on the final step, helping with the field op and BA. I expect they'll pull something similar for OC and FT where the relic will complement the gear in making the field op content easier.

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Originally Posted by XtremePrime

Then they need to add non-raid tied tomestone weapons if they want to keep the relic as a prestige thing and give casuals a way to acquire a max level weapon that can do content without needing to collect blades for N-weeks on end.

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Or they could just go back to the old approach to relics, which was mostly grinding lower tier content at your own pace. Having raid tomestone weapons and non-raid tomestone weapons is incredibly redundant and boring.

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Originally Posted by XtremePrime

I also don't agree that phantom weapons will be strictly for the achievement first because this is a huge Eureka smell, and Eureka relic had elemental bonus on the final step, helping with the field op and BA. I expect they'll pull something similar for OC and FT where the relic will complement the gear in making the field op content easier.

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Thing is, if field-op is only going to be a one-time step, with all subsequent relics being 1500 tomes per step, then it's going to be kind of redundant anyway.... Eureka had the advantage in that... If you were doing all relics, then you were probably getting a weapon with the elemental stat to make spawning easier, since it was Eureka or nothing... But all subsequent relics being tomestone takes away a massive incentive to even bother staying in there (field-op) long-term.

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Originally Posted by XtremePrime

Then they need to add non-raid tied tomestone weapons if they want to keep the relic as a prestige thing and give casuals a way to acquire a max level weapon that can do content without needing to collect blades for N-weeks on end.

I also don't agree that phantom weapons will be strictly for the achievement first because this is a huge Eureka smell, and Eureka relic had elemental bonus on the final step, helping with the field op and BA. I expect they'll pull something similar for OC and FT where the relic will complement the gear in making the field op content easier.

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Why do you need max level weapons , though? With the 720 and 750/crafted weapons you can already do all the casual content available.

The thing about the 720 & 750 tome weapons is that they require raid blades from M4 or M8 respectively, which I lumped casual players as being people who don't want to grind weekly raids (in case of M8) or repeat M4 4 times to get the weapon.
I also forgot that now we have master weapons which gives us buyable 740 ilvl weapons at @ 100k-200k gil.

With that in mind I think my remark regarding weapons was a little out of reach, so I'm sorry! :(


[But I still stand by what I said, I think the relic tome is a good attempt at a compromise between what we had in endwalker and what we had in times likes ARR/HW. There's multiple steps to come from the relic grind so we'll have to see with what they come up next, but having all the relic progression need to be repeatable like in ARR would be a major step backwards and is not meaningful or engaging content.
There still exists prestige in old relic weapons for people that want to flex long grinds (primarily ARR)]

Tomestones relics are the devs showing off how it COSTS too much to have casual content for us.

Please, look forward for the next Ultimate!

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Originally Posted by XtremePrime

The thing about the 720 & 750 tome weapons is that they require raid blades from M4 or M8 respectively, which I lumped casual players as being people who don't want to grind weekly raids (in case of M8) or repeat M4 4 times to get the weapon.
I also forgot that now we have master weapons which gives us buyable 740 ilvl weapons at @ 100k-200k gil.

With that in mind I think my remark regarding weapons was a little out of reach, so I'm sorry! :(


[But I still stand by what I said, I think the relic tome is a good attempt at a compromise between what we had in endwalker and what we had in times likes ARR/HW. There's multiple steps to come from the relic grind so we'll have to see with what they come up next, but having all the relic progression need to be repeatable like in ARR would be a major step backwards and is not meaningful or engaging content.
There still exists prestige in old relic weapons for people that want to flex long grinds (primarily ARR)]

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I mean the Relic was never meant to be part of how you caught up to content, but it would be nice that if they were gonna give people an alternative way to get max level weapons they would add content that's relevant to those. Otherwise doing M4 and M8 a few times it's fine because really... what else needs ilvl750 in this game? Right now the only dungeon where it's relevant is the Underkeep, the other expert syncs you down to 730.

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Originally Posted by Volgia

what else needs ilvl750 in this game?

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I needed ilvl750 to be able to solo 8 player treasure maps.
Or to be more exact: I could finish the dungeon itself with ilvl720, but could not enter reliably - the treasure chest spawns one group composition that I could not dispose off in time (3 mobs -> on death 3 other mobs -> on death 3 other mobs). I always was like 30 seconds short when these guys turned up. A few pieces of ilvl750 did not help, but the weapon did the trick - all of a sudden I now had 30 seconds left :)

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Originally Posted by Volgia

Why do you need max level weapons , though? With the 720 and 750/crafted weapons you can already do all the casual content available.

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You can also do all the savage content with crafted gear.

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Originally Posted by Valence

You can also do all the savage content with crafted gear.

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Only if you're hardcore enough. Most groups I've been helping can't get past some DPS checks only with crafted gear. it makes sense that gear progression helps people get through savage easier.

Whereas if you go into a dungeon/normal raid/ 24 man raid with crafted gear vs tomestone gear vs full bis gear, the only difference is some bosses die faster. The mobs are not a threat, tanks can self heal and healers have 100000 healing tools they'll never use between trash pulls.

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Originally Posted by Gwenkatsu

I needed ilvl750 to be able to solo 8 player treasure maps.
Or to be more exact: I could finish the dungeon itself with ilvl720, but could not enter reliably - the treasure chest spawns one group composition that I could not dispose off in time (3 mobs -> on death 3 other mobs -> on death 3 other mobs). I always was like 30 seconds short when these guys turned up. A few pieces of ilvl750 did not help, but the weapon did the trick - all of a sudden I now had 30 seconds left :)

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Soloing that sounds fun, even if it wasn't the intended way.

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Originally Posted by Volgia

Soloing that sounds fun, even if it wasn't the intended way.

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I fear I'm playing the game wrong anyway, seeing how I not once set my foot into an extreme, savage, ultimate, chaotic, pointless, or whatever :D