Rivenroad (Hard) Discussion and Strategies Thread

This thread got quiet pretty quickly, did people give up on this fight?

Maybe they're all too busy dying to Nael :(

Just got it down, give me a bit and I'll do a detailed write-up.

http://i.imgur.com/EPowM.jpg

Easier than ifrit extreme?

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Originally Posted by Tatsuguy

Easier than ifrit extreme?

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Harder, I think. It's more execution-based, no annoying laggy plumes to dodge. Everyone basically has to be playing at as high a level as possible, there's not much room to carry people.

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Originally Posted by Tatsuguy

Easier than ifrit extreme?

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I would say no personally, ifrit is alot about countering the server instability where as darnus hardmode is more about execution.

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Originally Posted by Penguin

I would say no personally, ifrit is alot about countering the server instability where as darnus hardmode is more about execution.

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Such a long fight compared to anything else in the game as well, so there's much more time to make mistakes etc. I'd say it's harder, esp since a lot of the Ifrit X mechanics have been learned and out for so long.

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Originally Posted by carraway

Just got it down, give me a bit and I'll do a detailed write-up.

http://i.imgur.com/EPowM.jpg

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Huge gratz on this... seriously. Awaiting your write up and thank you

World first was Scorpion ls on Masamune, but grats.

Mkkay thanks for the fast reply

So far it like some said it feels more like an execution based fight. He does A you do B. Ifrit Extreme imo is harder but this is still a nice challenge.

Order of the Blue Garter's Guide to Nael deus Darnus (Hard)
permalink

2012/08/15
bluegarter.guildwork.com
compiled by Carraway Author
with special thanks to the killteam
and tactical/moral support from everyone else in BG

Video link (sorry for the low-quality; vent included, ripped from our private restream): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwvi79-qAjM

Summary

Remember that guy, Nael Darnus? Nael deus Darnus? Well, he’s back. The arena is the same as the last phase of the regular fight: a large platform containing a lighted circle downstairs, two sets of stairs (one north and one south) leading to two middle platforms (west and east) and a top center platform. The full fight consists of two Megaflares and two distinct phases separated by full health bars.

Nael himself takes regular damage from both physical and magical sources of damage and reduced damage when he charges Megaflare/Dalamud Dive. Because of the structure of the fight, the party needs to have a solid balance of melee and ranged damage sources. Our party composition for our first kill was: THM, THM, BRD, DRG, DRG, WHM, WHM, PLD. There is certainly some room for flexibility with your party as long as you can survive Megaflares and kill Lunar Fragments and Golems while simultaneously dealing damage to Nael.

Gear-wise, magical damage dealers should aim for at least 515 total m.acc to try to mitigate potential resists on Lunar Fragments. Physical damage dealers should aim for at least 450 total accuracy.

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Abilities

Iron Curtain
- PBAoE, full circle, knockback, approximately 12 yalm range, ~1.5k damage

Teleport
- Teleports to one of the corners around the arena or dead-center in the arena or at the north or south edge
- Follows it up immediately with Thermionic Beam or Lunar Dynamo
- If teleporting from upstairs (Megaflare/Dalamud Dive), can be followed by Plasma Acoustics

Lunar Dynamo
- Can be used after teleport or independently
- PBAoE, full circle, hits everyone outside of ~15 yalms for ~2k damage and ~15% MP (eyeballing)
- Heals Nael for ~1-2k HP per target hit

Plasma Acoustics
- Can be used after teleport from upstairs (Megaflare/Dalamud Dive) or independently
- Deals ~2k damage, places defense-down debuff on target and defense-up buff on Nael
- Defense-down can be Esuna’d; defense-up can be ripped off Nael with Aerora
- Can be blocked with 100% success by a PLD using Aegis Boon or Divine Veil

Thermionic Beam
- Occurs directly after any teleport, including after charging Megaflare/Dalamud Dive
- Straight line that targets across the arena or target with highest enmity
- Deals ~2.5-3k damage

Thermionic Blast
- Occurs directly after Thermionic Beam
- Clusters of blasts can occur in a V-shape branching from the beam (after porting to one of the corners) or ~10-15 yalms behind (after porting into the middle) or to the sides (after porting to an outer edge)
- Can be dodged by being completely outside the circle or being directly behind Nael

Summon Lunar Fragment
- Raises lance into air and summons a Lunar Fragment that falls from the sky in the NW or SE of the arena
- Accompanied by combat log text: "Lunar debris is caught in the elemental field over Rivenroad."
- Regular fragments have ~667 HP and can be targeted from the middle platforms in the arena; see detailed fight description for special fragments
- Nael: "I shall not suffer life" = SE; "I shall not suffer death" = NW
- Lunar Fragments, when destroyed, drop a deaspected cluster, which can then be made into a Lunar Curtain
- If not destroyed, they will deal ~1.2-1.5k damage to everyone and spawn a Lunar Golem with approximately 3800 HP; golems are weak to wind only

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The Actual Fight

Megaflare 1

Upon engaging, Nael will immediately begin charging his first Megaflare, which will deal overkill damage unless mitigated. By using Sanguine Rite, Sentinel or Lunar Curtain, Stoneskin, Rampart, and Battle Voice, you will ensure that everyone survives.

Dealing ~2.5k damage to Nael while he is charging will force Megaflare. During this time, he will also spawn alternating Lunar Fragments, starting with the SE position, then NW. These Fragments have approximately 834 HP. If any land, the resulting damage from Megaflare is substantially increased. One ranged DPS should move up to one of the middle platforms as soon as the party engages and destroy the Lunar Fragments as they spawn.

Phase 1

After the first Megaflare, Nael will teleport into the arena and the fight will actually begin. At this point in time, he has access to his full suite of abilities as described above. If all ranged players maintain a ~13-14 yalm distance from Nael outside the circle, they should be safe from all abilities, but they must constantly be ready to adjust every single time Nael teleports.

Keeping the one ranged DPS on one of the middle platforms should ensure that you have regular Lunar Fragment coverage. However, at or below 60%, Nael will say, "Hope and despair...Joy and sorrow...Such things are meaningless." This signals the beginning of a fast Lunar Fragment phase that lasts until below 40%. You will likely need at least two ranged DPS on one of the middle platforms to be able to kill the constantly spawning, fast-moving Lunar Fragments. As with the regular ones, they have ~667 HP.

Once you’ve taken Nael below 40%, it’s back to basics until below 20%. He will say "Oblivion...Well do I know thee..." and after a certain amount of time, he will teleport upwards, accompanied by the combat log message "You sense a sinister presence overhead!" This signals the beginning of the next Megaflare.

Megaflare 2

Nael teleports to the top platform and begins charging the second (and final) Megaflare. At the same time, a total of eight Lunar Golems (~2200 HP) spawn on the north and south sides, including two on each middle platform, and two on each set of stairs. The golems have very high magic evasion, but can be leashed across the arena, tanked, or killed. Lunar Fragments will also start constantly spawning, starting in the SE position and alternating with the NW. These have ~1333 HP. The first six will fall slowly. From the seventh on, they will start falling quickly. As with the first Megaflare, if any fragments land, they will increase the damage dealt by Megaflare.

Melee DPS should immediately move to the top platform to deal as much damage to Nael as possible in order to force Megaflare. The faster Megaflare happens, the less time you have to spend dealing with Lunar Fragments and Golems. Without any landed fragments, Megaflare should deal ~1.5k damage to everyone and can be mitigated through the usual means.

Phase 2

Now comes the super-fun part. The eight Lunar Golems despawn, Nael heals to 100% HP, and teleports down with his full suite of abilities, including the occasional Lunar Fragment summon. For this reason it’s suggested to keep a ranged DPS on the middle platform at all times.

After at least one-and-a-half minutes downstairs (depending on how much Nael spams other abilities), Nael can choose to teleport up top again (accompanied by the combat log message "You sense a sinister presence overhead!"). He will begin to charge Dalamud Dive, which can deal a highly variable amount of damage. A Lunar Golem will spawn downstairs at the same time. By dealing a certain amount of damage to Nael up top, you can reduce the damage of or completely prevent Dalamud Dive. After Dive (or forced teleportation downstairs without Dive), he repeats this pattern.

If Nael is around 60-75% when he teleports up to Dive, he will spawn golems (~2200 HP) when he returns downstairs, one after the other in timed intervals, capping out at five total. These need to be killed or the party will be overrun. They can also spawn with initial enmity on any player in the arena, so they need to be picked up as quickly as possible by someone downstairs. WHMs’ Aero and Aerora out-of-combo can deal the vast majority of damage to these.

From 40-59%, Nael only uses his regular abilities. Once you knock him below 40%, he can initiate a special sequence of ten total Lunar Fragments (~667 HP), accompanied by Nael saying, "Come, lost child, and receive of me the gift of purity." We recommend at least two ranged DPS on each middle platform, west and east (reached via north and south stairs respectively). Here, a WHM can switch to Cleric Stance and put on a nuking set to help out. Five total Lunar Fragments will spawn on the north half of the arena, and five on the south half of the arena, in alternation, starting with the SE. They can spawn high (just above the top platform) or low (level with the middle platforms). At least one high-spawning fragment per north and south halves can spawn as fast-falling.

On the north half, the sequence is: first high far north, second high further north, third high just NW of the platform that can land on the stairs, fourth low just NE of the platform, and fifth low slightly further NE of the platform.

On the south half, the sequence is: first high south, second low SW, third low SE, fourth high SE over stairs, fifth high SE over stairs.

This sequence of fragments is independent of Nael’s Dive rotation, so the physical DPS will need to continue chasing Nael up to force/prevent Dive. Once you’ve finished the fragments off, the fight goes back to normal until 20%. At this point, the alternating fast-falling Lunar Fragments from Phase 1 will resume until he’s dead, but the rate at which they spawn is potentially slower than before.

And that’s it. PUT THAT NAEL IN THE COFFIN.

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PUT THAT NAEL IN THE COFFIN.

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/slowclap
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Excellent and well documented... thank you!

Thanks for the info.

Unfortunately, I'm probably going to have to pass on this, as much as it kills me. I like to think I'm a damned good PLD, it's how I managed to make it this far with my lousy gear.

But that's just it, my gear is nowhere near the level it should be for this and since PLD is my only 50, well, I'm likely SoL.

Main: Cobalt Winglet
Sub: Kite Shield
5/5 AF
Boarskin Belt
Electrum Rings
Electrum Gorget
Coral Armillae

it was hard enough beating him the first time. It took about 8 or 9 attempts with 4 different parties, but eventually I got the hang of his pattern and figured out what everyone needed to do etc.

No way I'm going to stand up to this though. Damn it Yoshi, it's not fair @.@ I want those shiny earrings of awesome, but I'm not about to attempt this with a group of likely well-equipped people only to bring us all down from sub-optimal gear.

I'm a big believer in skill > everything, and have proved it on a number of occasions but this is pretty extreme. Was it really necessary to make it so hard? They're damn nice earrings, but you know, the freaking Rajas Ring in FFXI was easily on par with this thing and was much, much easier to obtain by comparison. Promathia was a pretty fun fight too. Challenging, but not stupidly hard either.

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Originally Posted by Arkine

This thread got quiet pretty quickly, did people give up on this fight?

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No.. just the priority to beat this isnt exceptionally high since most pple go for epic gear rewards and this... is... well you know. =x pretty much for bragging rights. For some, the carrot dangled just wasnt good enough lol...

Getting to 30% ourselves in super saiyan mode. Just need to learn how to deal with those 10 meteors and we'll have this down solid.

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Originally Posted by Zezlar

Getting to 30% ourselves in super saiyan mode. Just need to learn how to deal with those 10 meteors and we'll have this down solid.

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What really helped us is getting a fraps/livestream of one of the groups of fragments during a run to see how they fell, then splitting up into 2 groups of 2 and assigning people to fragments based on cooldowns.

For example: on my side, it was myself as BRD and Ashley Weiss as THM. He would Thunder the first fragment, I'd finish it off with the first WS in a combo, then kill the third fragment with the rest of the combo whilst he killed second with Thundara. I'd shoot at fourth to help kill, and then Barrage the last.

sweet this gives me a reason to buy a vanya robe and look awesome

I have a question please : is "White Ravens" earrings reward from this fight? 100% drop?

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Originally Posted by Evangelus

I have a question please : is "White Ravens" earrings reward from this fight? 100% drop?

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Yes you get it from the NPC when you leave the instance. 100% drop, everyone gets one.

thank you =)

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sweet this gives me a reason to buy a vanya robe and look awesome

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YES YES RISE UP MY THAUM BROTHERS

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Originally Posted by AshTS

YES YES RISE UP MY THAUM BROTHERS

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THAUM MY GOD SHUT UP

it's nice BG is actually trying to help the rest of the community now.

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Originally Posted by Hixc

it's nice BG is actually trying to help the rest of the community now.

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I KNOW RITE

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Originally Posted by Hixc

it's nice BG is actually trying to help the rest of the community now.

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IMPOSSIBRU

PUT THAT NAEL IN THE COFFIN.

FINAL FANTASY XIV ‏@FF_XIV_EN

"Rivenroad (Hard)" successfully cleared for the first time by JP players on Masamune on 8/14 at 12:13 (PDT) / 19:13 (GMT). Congratulations!


WOOT!

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Originally Posted by Aion

FINAL FANTASY XIV ‏@FF_XIV_EN

"Rivenroad (Hard)" successfully cleared for the first time by JP players on Masamune on 8/14 at 12:13 (PDT) / 19:13 (GMT). Congratulations!


WOOT!

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Latency's a bitch.

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Originally Posted by Risae

Latency's a bitch.

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Like latency is an issue in this fight...

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Originally Posted by ShadowCadja

Like latency is an issue in this fight...

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Latency makes a difference in every aspect of this game, even just having less delay on using abilities can make any fight easier because its easier to get a good damage rotation which allows you to hit higher dps numbers, which make fights shorter, which make them easier etc etc.

Just watch a video of a JP dragoon and a NA/EU dragoon side by side and you will see what i am talking about.

Not to take anything away from the JP linkshells because scorpion clearly went above and beyond in this patch.

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Originally Posted by Penguin

Latency makes a difference in every aspect of this game, even just having less delay on using abilities can make any fight easier because its easier to get a good damage rotation which allows you to hit higher dps numbers, which make fights shorter, which make them easier etc etc.

Just watch a video of a JP dragoon and a NA/EU dragoon side by side and you will see what i am talking about.

Not to take anything away from the JP linkshells because scorpion clearly went above and beyond in this patch.

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Never said it doesn't make a difference of course it does but saying latency is an issue whatsoever in this fight to be able to beat it before everyone else is being pretty ignorant.

well, the fight isn't as heavily movement-based as ifrit extreme, but backline still needs to stay between ~13-14 yalms away from van darnus at all times (but never as far as 15). being less than 13 yalms away and getting hit by chariot isn't nearly as much of a problem as being 15+ yalms away and getting hit by dynamo. it hits you hard, drains your mp and heals darnus to boot. latency certainly is a factor in staying just the perfect range from darnus at all times, considering animation lock and the like, and every time people get hit by dynamo he heals quite a lot.

the more he heals, the longer the fight gets. the longer the fight gets, the more likely you are to time out and fail. and even with perfect dps and not getting hit by any dynamos, he'll still take most groups at least 24-25 minutes to kill.

is latency the biggest factor? not at all. but it makes a difference in a pretty vital area of the fight, and as a result i think just as we're seeing with ifrit extreme (though obviously to a lesser degree)- more JP LSs will beat darnus faster than their NA counterparts. and perhaps i'm terribly wrong about this, but i tend to assume the skill levels of the JP and NA LSs on average are about equal. so for there to be such a huge disparity in the number of JP/NA LSs clearing content, and the speed with which they do so...

well, i can't really see much of any reason for that outside of latency. /shrug

do JP players deal with latency as well? yes, absolutely. is it as bad as NA latency? no, and while NA latency is only "~300 ms" worse, keep in mind the effects are cumulative- every single action, every movement... tack on another 300ms delay vs. JP. does the latency make it impossible? absolutely not. many NA LSs have proven that.

unfortunately, it's difficult to judge when this broken client version is all we have to go by. but i predict with the 2.0 client and the abolition of latency issues across all regions, we're going to see the overall gap in JP vs. NA progression close considerably. it should be pretty even then.

though, again, as peng said- we can't take anything away from Scorpion at all. they played out of their minds and deserve major congratulations. :)

Latency in this game right now is terrible for non-japan.

For example in Ifrit Extreme during nails, he can pop a plume on a LS member you are near. You start outside the plume range, but accidentally hit left, facing your character left for a split second before running forward. You then get hit by the plume that you never entered the entire time, but hitting left for that split second the server actually considers you running full speed left for the next 2-3 seconds, and thus under the plume.

This is also silimar in the Raven. Lets say you are at ~16 yards and want to move to ~14, so you tap forward a few times, but then get hit by Chariot while you are still behind everyone. The server is still considering you as running for 2-3 seconds until latency corrects itself to your right position. This makes it very difficult to micro manage your position due to how the server handle's the latency.

Also, effects, mobs, etc appear 1.5-2.5s later on screen for NA players but the only real concern about that in Raven is the meteor's. Having them spawn 2s earlier (and slightly higher) on JP screens might not be a real advantage but it still exists. This also takes away time in Ifrit X because our nails appear 2-3s later. This latency is easily seen by watching Ifrit Extreme video's and timing how long effects take to detonate compared to NA. I also tested this in Good King Moogle Mog Phase1, our average kill time of all moogles was 1.7s quicker than a JP video but they reached Astral Flow a good 30 seconds before us. Its because our mobs took 3 additional seconds to appear, and 3 more seconds to register the killing blow to signal the next one.

And as Peng stated, JP can fire off abilities much quicker than us... you can see this in Gathering/Crafting fairly easy or time your rotation vs theirs on a video. This allows for much quicker responses, and higher DPS, threat, HPS etc

Are these game breaking? No, not really. Theres nothing latency does that cannot be overcome. Does it give NA/EU a disadvantage? Yes, a slight one in most cases (a rather large one in Ifrit X, but really that's the only fight). Does it mean current fights are unwinable? No not by any means, we just have to play smart and around the lag but saying it doesn't make a difference in any fight? Well that's just an untrue statement.

-edit-
The 1.5-3s is from observing JP videos in comparison to personal runs. Its also easy to tell its the cutting point due to combo's often not triggering when they have 0, 1, or 2s left on their timer because the server has already fully counted it down, but your client is 1.5-3.0s behind.

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Originally Posted by Risae

Latency's a bitch.

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It is for reasons gone into by other posters above, but it's definitely not the reason why Scorpion beat us to the punch. I'm sure they worked harder than us and/or analyzed more rigorously.

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Originally Posted by Zdenka

Latency in this game right now is terrible for non-japan.

For example in Ifrit Extreme during nails, he can pop a plume on a LS member you are near. You start outside the plume range, but accidentally hit left, facing your character left for a split second before running forward. You then get hit by the plume that you never entered the entire time, but hitting left for that split second the server actually considers you running full speed left for the next 2-3 seconds, and thus under the plume.

This is also silimar in the Raven. Lets say you are at ~16 yards and want to move to ~14, so you tap forward a few times, but then get hit by Chariot while you are still behind everyone. The server is still considering you as running for 2-3 seconds until latency corrects itself to your right position. This makes it very difficult to micro manage your position due to how the server handle's the latency.

Also, effects, mobs, etc appear 1.5-2.5s later on screen for NA players but the only real concern about that in Raven is the meteor's. Having them spawn 2s earlier (and slightly higher) on JP screens might not be a real advantage but it still exists. This also takes away time in Ifrit X because our nails appear 2-3s later. This latency is easily seen by watching Ifrit Extreme video's and timing how long effects take to detonate compared to NA. I also tested this in Good King Moogle Mog Phase1, our average kill time of all moogles was 1.7s quicker than a JP video but they reached Astral Flow a good 30 seconds before us. Its because our mobs took 3 additional seconds to appear, and 3 more seconds to register the killing blow to signal the next one.

And as Peng stated, JP can fire off abilities much quicker than us... you can see this in Gathering/Crafting fairly easy or time your rotation vs theirs on a video. This allows for much quicker responses, and higher DPS, threat, HPS etc

Are these game breaking? No, not really. Theres nothing latency does that cannot be overcome. Does it give NA/EU a disadvantage? Yes, a slight one in most cases (a rather large one in Ifrit X, but really that's the only fight). Does it mean current fights are unwinable? No not by any means, we just have to play smart and around the lag but saying it doesn't make a difference in any fight? Well that's just an untrue statement.

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I'm EU so I think I know how much latency affects gameplay and these fights, and while everything you said is true, I just don't see it making any difference at all in this fight if people know where to go, when to move, etc when Darnus does X or Y, everytime someone gets hit by something is like always because they didn't repositioned themself when Darnus moved or something and very, very rarely because there was latency of like 1s or 2. But I guess you probably gonna disagree and claim other stuff everyone already knows about the latency issues, so I will leave it at that. ^^

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Originally Posted by ShadowCadja

I'm EU so I think I know how much latency affects gameplay and these fights, and while everything you said is true, I just don't see it making any difference at all in this fight if people know where to go, when to move, etc when Darnus does X or Y, everytime someone gets hit by something is like always because they didn't repositioned themself when Darnus moved or something and very, very rarely because there was latency of like 1s or 2. But I guess you probably gonna disagree and claim other stuff everyone already knows about the latency issues, so I will leave it at that. ^^

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Sorry, I may have gone overboard with the examples but my point was just that latency has an effect on current gameplay, in some cases ways we wouldn't normally think about, and that this is true for every fight in the game even if its effect is minimal and that the only way we can reduce its effects is to adapt certain stratagem's that JP players would never have to employ or to be aware that even though something doesn't make sense (not being in a plume at all and getting hit by it, for example) that we was NA/EU players know what caused that so we can make sure to avoid it in the future.

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Originally Posted by ShadowCadja

Never said it doesn't make a difference of course it does but saying latency is an issue whatsoever in this fight to be able to beat it before everyone else is being pretty ignorant.

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thats why here you work hard in putting as much third party programs (that arent related to botting) you can get away with.

Congrats BG!