Square Enix, Are we really just pretending that WoW isn't running laps around you?

It also doesn't help that if me and my best friend want to play the new Wow expansion Midnight all we need to do is buy it and we both get level boosted to whatever level Midnight starts at and can immediately play together. While in 14, you have to be caught up to the story and at level cap, which requires 3 purchases to achieve vs. Wow's 1.

And I get it they're different games. I've been playing Wow for 20 years and 14 for 12 years. I get it, but one is infinitely more accessible and is learning and adapting things that work in 14 and stealing your players. It's gonna start with housing.

Mark my words if the next story isn't good, the population is going to level out lower and lower. They need to do something anything other than "just go play something else." Because people will, and they won't come back.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ardeth

It also doesn't help that if me and my best friend want to play the new Wow expansion Midnight all we need to do is buy it and we both get level boosted to whatever level Midnight starts at and can immediately play together. While in 14, you have to be caught up to the story and at level cap, which requires 3 purchases to achieve vs. Wow's 1.

And I get it they're different games. I've been playing Wow for 20 years and 14 for 12 years. I get it, but one is infinitely more accessible and is learning and adapting things that work in 14 and stealing your players. It's gonna start with housing.

Mark my words if the next story isn't good, the population is going to level out lower and lower. They need to do something anything other than "just go play something else." Because people will, and they won't come back.

---

Not really a Pro.

WoW Abandons all its old content once they are done with it so of course you only need to "Jump to the End" Current expansion is all they care about.

I've seen how broken the game can get with the poor new player experience where players will have three different quests from three different expansions they'd have no idea of knowing.

Of all the things to mention that's one of the worst things about WoW. The storytelling of later games just gets obliterated so you can get to the end game as fast as possible.
Giving people a free level boost so they don't even know what buttons they are pressing
Go to the broken isles as a new player by accident experience the Legion story - you have no idea is 10 years old at this point... you get your artifact weapon (This seems like a huge deal) huh... this integral piece to the story it's worse than the weapon I got in a dungeon fighting insects on the wall of China the game randomly threw me into... I guess it used to have it's own power system now it's gone forever.


And I know people will complain about how dull FF14 Leveling is at early levels


But it beats getting warp-sped to the ending.

----

The best part of having to play through FF story is that at the very least there's some ever-green content that new players get to experience stage by stage.
This type of "Pro" can only come from somebody who was a WoWfugee who didn't give a shit in the first place. (Not saying that's a bad thing just saying your priorities doesn't make it a good feature)

But not everything about Final Fantasy 14 needs to be ... WoW with a Final Fantasy skin ontop of it.

And it's not infinitely accessible you make it to end game just to get booted from groups for not knowing what you're doing.
Your content at end game is PvP which can be ball bustingly hard because more than half the people in there are gonna be folks who've been sweating PvP for 20 years.

All high-end content needs Addons to decipher what the hell is even going on.
Mythic + which is the most unfriendly environment to put any player period.

People complain about our dungeons being easy but normal content in WoW may as well not even exist in comparison.

And while having "Something to do" is fun - you are never ever done with your WoW character you can't ever be like Well I'm bis. or if you want access to something cool, you got to grind for hours to get it. Or it's FOMO and you'll never get it. I'll never get the Grovewarden because I was in the Navy during WoD a Raid mount with its own story line shut off because I never played WoD... oh it's in the code... I see others with it... but I can't have it.

I'd say like the Brutosaur but they literally put the mount into their store at the price of a full game. I still remember all the sad people who spent waaaay more buying WoWtokens to afford the brutosaur. (Oh I forgot they have official RMT) People complain our GMs don't do enough about bots that do that, but at least we know we have GMs. WoW just tells me to use WoWhead because they fired all their GMs and community managers.

People complain there's been too many mogstation items recently yet have amnesia over how absolutely awful WoW's store is and how aggressive it is. Your whole game can lag but that store button will work. Least FF14 mostly due to how jank it is - isn't aggressively trying to get my money. That "FREE BOOST" won't be there for my other classes. (Guess what they want you to do for them)

---

WoW has some good stuff going on, let's give it it's flowers and hope FF improves.

But WoW is still WoW.

The good news for the MMO space is that after sucking ass for 12 years straight they finally got their shit together slightly because after that long of being mediocre, a ho-hum experience FF14 had to offer was just that much better than them that they lost their jaded asses. I mean keep in mind the APPEAL for a new player in FF14 is they have shit loads of content to do. Our Free Trial offers three expansions of content. WoW you do tutorial island, do two more dungeons and your character is at level 20 and can't do anything else. Oh and I think you can only have 20 gold hard cap... which gets you nothing, limited bag space unless you link your Battlenet account. (which be like limiting inventory slots if you didn't have the companion app on your phone)

People going crazy over their housing after not having it for 20 years and copying their competitor's homework and doing market analysis to see what pain points they could get rid of. That's not out of care or kindness. They want your money. (YeAh WeLl aT LeAsT I'm NoT fOrcEd to kEeP a SUB/LoG iN to KeEp it) Yeah they just nickle and dime you every other way. Best QoL furniture is probably gonna be in their store anyways. (Like imagine a glamour dresser but it's 20 bucks) or a particular piece of furniture will require some 20 hour monotonous rep grind.

BAH I digress (Sorry to the person I'm replying too... this isn't directed at you but WoW proper - It's still WoW) There's a reason you check a WoW video every now and again with people excited for the state of WoW and you see the Apathy of people going "It looks okay but I could never go back." WoW needs to do a lot more IMO a helluva lot more. *Sigh deep breath*

I look at it from the perspective of fun. In the month we played Wow, we got a self-contained story, content to grind, and activities to participate in at launch. Granted, I quit because the gearing and the community is Wow is shit, but the gameplay aspect of it and how accessible it was for us to do what we did was extremely well designed.

In contrast to starting Dawntrail and having my buddy be behind an expansion and having him crash and burn trying to keep up and having to unsubscribe multiple times as to where as of today he finally finished Endwalker's MSQ and he still has patch content and he's still behind and we can still not really play together matters to me.

But I'm not going to lie. I didn't read half of what you wrote because, god damn my dude.

But to sum it up, my 7 months of Dawntrail weren't nearly as fun as the one month of Wow. And it's not even close, and that's with it pissing me off with how shit it's gearing is.

Also, it wouldn't let me quote you properly because there's too much text again. Sorry, dog TLDR.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ardeth

I look at it from the perspective of fun. In the month we played Wow, we got a self-contained story, content to grind, and activities to participate in at launch. Granted, I quit because the gearing and the community is Wow is shit, but the gameplay aspect of it and how accessible it was for us to do what we did was extremely well designed.

In contrast to starting Dawntrail and having my buddy be behind an expansion and having him crash and burn trying to keep up and having to unsubscribe multiple times as to where as of today he finally finished Endwalker's MSQ and he still has patch content and he's still behind and we can still not really play together matters to me.

But I'm not going to lie. I didn't read half of what you wrote because, god damn my dude.

But to sum it up, my 7 months of Dawntrail weren't nearly as fun as the one month of Wow. And it's not even close, and that's with it pissing me off with how shit it's gearing is.

Also, it wouldn't let me quote you properly because there's too much text again. Sorry, dog TLDR.

---

Why can't you play together? NG+ exists.

As Nadda said, with WoW past content is meaningless. The leveling experience may as well not even exist because new characters are rushed through it.

WoW is a game for those who are only interested in "slaying dargons [sic]" as a friend of mine put it years ago. Endgame is a grind because the developers don't expect anyone to want to experience the content from past expansions so the grind is needed as time filler.

FFXIV is a game for those who want to journey through a world and experience its stories and lore. Endgame is thinner because the developers do expect players to take an interest in content from past expansions.

Both games are going to suffer in the eyes of some players because once they've consumed the content they're interested in, there will be points where there is nothing left the player wants to do. That's most likely to happen with the veteran players who has played through all the content as it was released instead of coming to the game late and having all the old content to catch up on yet it can also happen with new players with more limited interests.

At least FFXIV is honest about that reality and YoshiP encourages players to play other games when they run out of things they want to do in FFXIV. WoW is much more predatory with its endgame grind - their developers don't want you to have time to play other games.

As players (and consumers), we need to decide which style of game appeals to us and spend our money accordingly. If you're not happy, then it's time to move on and spend your money on another game that will make you happy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ardeth

Also, it wouldn't let me quote you properly because there's too much text again. Sorry, dog TLDR.

---

Don't worry about it dood. same

Ask for your friends experience I took tons of unsubscribing spells from FF14 in my time coming up. Even though I technically had an account during ARR I couldn't play much because I was in the Navy. When I got out HW was going on and I got back into the game thanks to a friend... but I was up until Shadowbringers realistically always an expansion behind because of the amount of breaks I took.. or at most like a Post-MSQ behind.

In stormblood I was so bored from the period of Yanxia and Azim steppe I stopped playing like.. 6 times.

That being said as a new player back in the ARR/HW times I appreciated being able to experience the content first hand.

WoW can get me to the end game fast I remember killing N'zoth in BfA because I must have played that in between my FF14 breaks. But getting to end game in any game is really gonna be the same.

I don't want to endlessly grind gear sets. Or do boring reputation grinds.
Hell... I remember there was this set of armor I wanted. True Steel armor set. It comes from WoD.
You have to like max out your Garrison.
Mine like hundreds of thousands of ore. To smelt ONE True Steel Ingot and it was on a weekly cool down until you can make the armor pieces but then that doesn't even give you the cool looking one.
It gave me some ugly orange and green one.
So you got to keep doing that over and over.

N'zoth armor pieces were cool as were the nightmare vision things but it was the same corrupted vision things over and over. (though because of all the procs, passives and random chances, doing open world PVP will cause the server you're on to melt - not to mention sharding, there's no server identity, you see people talk about Balmung... nobody hangs out on Balmung on my server)

I remember there was a head piece I wanted but required me to do Legion world quests and kill Heliaya or whatever her name is a dozen hundred times.

It's... Okay?
But like that's what WoW is. It's all these boring fricken chores. There's no permanence to anything because the expansions don't expand shit - you don't so much play WoW as you play an expansion.
Which in essence is like paying a monthly sub to play madden. or a Call of Duty game.
And even when they try to make things less system-orientated there's still just grind after pointless grind for the next thing. And still content boils down to the same three things. (M+, Raiding and PvP) <- That hasn't changed.
M+ is full of jerkfaces.
Mythic Raids require Addons to tell you what's going on because to this day Raiding in WoW is completely undecipherable to the naked eye. (Most likely gonna be doing Heroic let's be honest so you're doing the easier version for lesser gear that probably looks ugly) And People will just Tmog over it... Granted people glamour over Savage Sets too but sometimes like in Pandaemonium last expansion you'd see people wearing the full set. Or people who clear Ultimates will show off their weapons/title. You don't really get that in WoW anymore.
Or do PvP (specifically Arena) which is full of sweats or people being carried by sweats, and on any given patch people with PvE gear will just be outright better than you so... there's that.

My point being that both games have pain points.

Just to clarify, I'm not saying Wow is better. Honestly, at the moment, neither are to me. I'm just saying from a pick up and go perspective it absolutely is, but as a game, no, it's shit.

It's grind grind grind grind. Here's these convaluted currencies to fill up a tab that will confuse the ever loving shit outta you.

But also, Wow is just better suited to be a coop game. You can do their version of trusts with your friends, etc. It's just more conducive as a concept. 14 has too many hiccups to really be a good coop mmo game. Some people can make it work, but I always end up more bored doing it than I would solo. Plus, I can do it way faster alone and actually pay attention, but that's more of a me issue.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ardeth

Just to clarify, I'm not saying Wow is better. Honestly, at the moment, neither are to me. I'm just saying from a pick up and go perspective it absolutely is, but as a game, no, it's shit.

It's grind grind grind grind. Here's these convaluted currencies to fill up a tab that will confuse the ever loving shit outta you.

But also, Wow is just better suited to be a coop game. You can do their version of trusts with your friends, etc. It's just more conducive as a concept. 14 has too many hiccups to really be a good coop mmo game. Some people can make it work, but I always end up more bored doing it than I would solo. Plus, I can do it way faster alone and actually pay attention, but that's more of a me issue.

---

Yeah I know I got that brother nw.

Both games got strengths and weaknesses.

I actually compare the MMO player to Satan from the South Park Season 4 episodes 9-10

About Satan's new boyfriend Chris to his Ex-Lover Saddam.

The point is FF14 is a Safe but "boring" relationship. A lot of the issues people have isn't just the lack of content - but that we know it's coming in the same way each time. Even if you love Tacos, you're not gonna want to have tacos every single day.

But WoW is more like an Abusive and Needy relationship. That's the chaotic ex you know is bad for you, but sometimes you can’t help but get pulled back in for the rush. You know it’s gonna hurt again, but you remember the highs and forget the lows.(Again these are just allegories not literal)

People go to WoW because it's more exciting but the same issues it's always had are still there the same toxicity. It's just the other extreme.

People (Not you specifically) are so caught up in wanting to choose something they don't realize the most important thing is to choose themselves and what makes them happy. And sometimes that's not having an MMO at all.
People don't like that FF14 like Chris is a huge Wussy that tells you should take breaks because you want something more from them.
And People don't like WoW because it's so end game focused and grindy and full of a bunch of jerks.

It's all about finding a balance.
That's why I'm a Buddhist (OSRS) Player. . . Err watch the south park episodes you'll understand.

(edit) Youtube actually has the clips I'd want to share so I'm adding them

https://youtu.be/575kHkFOkaE?si=IwwRgIlAOobtK-6P&t=43 (God gives Satan Advice)

https://youtu.be/E4oQ1tJXEx4?si=KFlGkAdQ3BeTYuQQ&t=82 (Satan breaks up with Saddam "WoW" and Chris "FF14")

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nadda

Not really a Pro.

WoW Abandons all its old content once they are done with it so of course you only need to "Jump to the End" Current expansion is all they care about.

Wall of text

---

WoW has some good stuff going on, let's give it it's flowers and hope FF improves.

But WoW is still WoW.

Wall of text

---

I'd rather the WoW approach, Cause FFXIV you have some pretty major roadblocks + very dead content to the point they gotta basically drag people kicking and screaming into the final parts of ARR. People actively avoid Main Story Roulette cause it's almost guaranteed 15 + Mins of unskippable dialogue.

Was fine at first but 10 years later and instead of just turning it into a cutscene they force more of the same nonsense, ARR Itself should be optional. I really do think any new character should start in HW or Dawntrail. ARR Phases so many players out it's not even funny, Even the Nier Dev couldn't finish it bro got bored af and left.

Stormblood really should be shortened aswell, It's just NONSTOP Cutscenes like JFC.

If you survive ARR very high chance Stormblood will sap your remaining will to live after you start talking to hien and getting the nonstop cutscenes for him in both MSQ and post MSQ.

ShB would be a good start but i don't think it'd make sense to start someone there unless they revised the story a bit to accomodate new adventurers, Endwalker really wouldn't make sense. Dawntrail might be acceptable cause WoL Story is DONE, So you got a blank sheet.

WoW has the correct idea, You don't care about story? want to play with your friend? GO NUTS

FFXIV? Suffer through our story Soyboy, Then maybe you can visit the new region >:) OR, GIB US MONEY TO SKIP AND POWERLEVEL.

FFXIV really needs to stop tying flight & new regions behind MSQ, A Crafter could give less of a fk about Lamat, Emet, Alphi, Or whoever else. Why force people to do MSQ? PLot relevancy? You do realize a good portion of people mash ESC to bypass your content block. I have zero idea what happens in the flight aether current side quests cause i DONT CARE, I want my flight.

Just like if a new raid comes out, You think i'm gunna sit there and watch Lamat talk about her butt For 30 mins? No, That shi is getting esc and skipped. I DO NOT CARE if it has content behind it i'm not gunna watch it.

Some of the story is good, But forcing story participation for zones, dungeons, trials, raids, ETC is braindead.

TLDR; FFXIV has so much potential for community growth but gets curbed cause CBu3 are greedy, Refuse to cull old content & STILL think forcing an ARR start is intelligent.

Well I can agree on one thing.

FF14 does have potential for community growth.
But not for a second is gonna be based on abandoning the prior content.

All for the sake of doing the exact same thing that DT is being panned for.

It doesn't have a story you need to care about because you don't care and the Blizz devs don't either. So there's no expectations.
In FF14 that's a fault because the game makes you care about the story. It is part of the experience.

In terms of what there is to do in WoW.
A Delve is just a deep dungeon. That's the newest thing.
But other than that it's the same M+, Mythic raiding or PvP all of which needs add ons to perform optimally.
Things too try hard for a majority player base.

WoW doesn't have anything FF14 doesn't have it just has grinding mechanisms to keep you plugged in. Never being done.

Boosts are more popular in WoW. Because WoW is a game where you play the Expansion.
When you play FF14 you're playing it for all of FF14. That's why our Free Trial experience is awesome and WoW's is hot garbage.
If 'playing the game is only max level and fuck everything else' you get like 4 hours of WoW play time with a free trial.
You don't get to play through anything because the old content is abandoned. You don't get to play the new stuff so your only option is to pay blizzard full box price.
Then LFG to elevator you to the max level where you don't know what you're doing with sweats who've played for 20 years get pissed off because the game does an even worse job of teaching you than FF14 does.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nadda

Well I can agree on one thing.

FF14 does have potential for community growth.
But not for a second is gonna be based on abandoning the prior content.

All for the sake of doing the exact same thing that DT is being panned for.

It doesn't have a story you need to care about because you don't care and the Blizz devs don't either. So there's no expectations.
In FF14 that's a fault because the game makes you care about the story. It is part of the experience.

In terms of what there is to do in WoW.
A Delve is just a deep dungeon. That's the newest thing.
But other than that it's the same M+, Mythic raiding or PvP all of which needs add ons to perform optimally.
Things too try hard for a majority player base.

WoW doesn't have anything FF14 doesn't have it just has grinding mechanisms to keep you plugged in. Never being done.

Boosts are more popular in WoW. Because WoW is a game where you play the Expansion.
When you play FF14 you're playing it for all of FF14. That's why our Free Trial experience is awesome and WoW's is hot garbage.
If 'playing the game is only max level and fuck everything else' you get like 4 hours of WoW play time with a free trial.
You don't get to play through anything because the old content is abandoned. You don't get to play the new stuff so your only option is to pay blizzard full box price.
Then LFG to elevator you to the max level where you don't know what you're doing with sweats who've played for 20 years get pissed off because the game does an even worse job of teaching you than FF14 does.

---

Delve has literally nothing in common with deep dungeon and WoW has M+ and netcode that actually allows for PVP that doesn't just feel like a minigame.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BigCheez

Delve has literally nothing in common with deep dungeon and WoW has M+ and netcode that actually allows for PVP that doesn't just feel like a minigame.

---

Sorry I didn't mean 1:1 - They serve a similar purpose—providing accessible, shorter, and often solo‐friendly dungeon experiences that are varied and multifaceted

PVP so good it's perpetually criminally neglected and dying in most expansions. Ask for Netcode? Maybe for Arenas but you know as well as I do in an open-world environment having people go off with all their spells causes the servers to have a stroke. (It's because of all the procs and passives and percent chances for x random effect to occur)

M+ is interesting but it also isn't very welcoming because of how it's designed the culture around it is toxic. So while the concept is interesting too much about it makes it unfun.

My point is; When you get to the end game it's the same crap different shade.

WoW's whole point is 'to play the game', Right? The end game since that's the only thing of value to do but playing the game is the same grind loop it's been for years.

It never changes like FF14.
But it also never ends.
Like how we have our road map of what to expect. Each new WoW expansion will have. It's Raid tier. M+/Arena seasons.

And while yes all progression is sorta set to be better than what you had before depending on where you enter in on that cycle you could be either in "A good time to play WoW" or "Too late" time to play WoW.

Whereas FF14's progression is set up where you can pick up where you left off get into it really easily with crafted gear and after a few weeks be done.
WoW's is more like you get power crept out of it unless you're always on. It's all high stakes and hyper-competitive. So if you're not invested or leave the game just for a bit you get left behind.
You grind so you can have a better head start for the next grind.

I'll admit WoW has been a lot better than FFXIV in the last two expansions with adding new things for players to bite into and learn. FFXIV took AWAY these kinds of systems thinking that it was the premise that turned people off. No, not really. It was the implementation. You'd think people making modern mechanic markers that WoW itself steals because of the consistent learning and teaching, would also figure that out.

Maybe the class team is super small and had to consolidate everything. I really hope, going forward, FFXIV creates better evergreen features. WoW is catching up (or surpassing XIV) but that won't 'kill' or hurt XIV. XIV has reached the same status as WoW, ESO, SWTOR and some honorable lesser extent mentions OSRS / RS3.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RaideDuku

FF XIV's housing system is horrible.

But let's not perform lewd acts of appreciation for Blizzard just yet.

The only thing that modern Blizzard doesn't disappoint in is disappointment. If not right away, just give them a moment.

I really don't understand why people still throw rose petals and cash at their screens for Blizzard every time they speak when they haven't done anything to earn that loyalty for (at least) a decade, if not plain open contempt for their fans. It's something they've shown again, and again, and again, and again, and again.

Competition is great, and if Blizzard's housing can get FFXIV to budge even a bit on improving it's own housing system, I'm all for it. However, SqaureEnix as a whole tend to only rock the FFXIV boat when it's completely necessary. They're probably waiting for the other shoe to drop and see how modern Blizzard botches their housing before deciding if any moves are necessary. (My bet is severely limited amount of decorations, size of a player house is the size of a shoebox with no way to expand, and of course, everything but the absolute bare bones furniture is cash shop only).

---

SE is like a Titanic, waiting to hit an iceberg before acknowledge the problem & doing anything about it. After all, we're just all low class peasents in SE eyes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dante131

cant agree to that. I can see the point with the cartoon style yes i had issues with it. But not good to new players hell no thats straight up a lie. I never touched wow and people been always helpfull to me explained what i need to be better and how mechanics work where the shortcuts are etc. recently i thought i give raiding a try and just opened a grp in the wow pf without thinking like you do in 14. We stepped in everything was good. The first issue happened when somebody asked if i know how to raidlead and i answered honestly dunno first time. So he asked for assistent raid lead which is an option and helped me to sort partys and understand the system. Thats far away from toxic. i another run of raids i got dmed from a party member who got a weapon for my class that he mistakenly rolled on it and if i want to have it. I asked how much gold he wants because i expected smth like that and the response was "dahell nothing its useless for me but will help you" where is this toxic ? while events i already got some mounts gifted just because people dropped it and already had it. On horde side i met a person who just gifted me 15 toys randomly without a text. btw im playing male characters before you come with stuff like are you haveing slut glam. The only time i encountered toxicity was when i was to slow as tank and this was very rare... so please i dont know what you have done to get toxic comments but this is not normal day out there. this is just a quote people use.

---

To be fair, I think people like him considered it toxic if a Healer ask a Tank to put his Tanks Stance on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lizzit

just unsub then dude no one is forcing you to keep playing. Also these changes aren't going to happen instantaneous, what we're seeing in WoW is probably because of a response to when all the WoW players migrated to FFxiv and now they're implementing strategies to get them back. It's just the ebb and flow of the market, competition creates better products. Give it time and SE will respond with their own strategies. It's not gonna happen overnight it's a video game and a massive one at that. It's not gonna take a couple of patches to fix everything. Am i saying ffxiv is the most perfect game ever? no i'm hardly done with hw post quests but I'm really enjoying my time so far. Also I don't think dawntrail was supposed to be some revolutionary expansion. From my understanding, endwalker was the end of a huge story arc so where do you even take the story after that? P.S I wear adult diapers

---

Funny how you haven't completed HW yet felt compelled to response as if you truly understand the situation as if you're hindsight holds any weight

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by USAFJerrySo

SE is like a Titanic, waiting to hit an iceberg before acknowledge the problem & doing anything about it. After all, we're just all low class peasents in SE eyes.

---

I really like to know who or what is making these decisions on FFXIV, but getting such answers out of them is impossible.

I know we like to say Yoshi P. a lot, but he works with a group obviously and we don't even know who these people are.

Meanwhile, Record levels of unsubbing & now tons of people saying they wont resub for 7.2

Square enix still in the echo chamber

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AshtonCrowe

Meanwhile, Record levels of unsubbing & now tons of people saying they wont resub for 7.2

---

This is where my confidence comes in, which is from a place of mutual respect.
You know normally they are very quick to address concerns... whether people like how they addressed the blacklist situation or not they still removed the addon and in 7.2 will make sure it can't be duplicated. They responded to that right away. Yoshi-P did personally.

Yet all this other talk - there hasn't really been much at all.
As much as people enjoy creating caricatures of what they deem adversaries as drooling infants incapable of understanding their own success or how to capitalize on it. That level of aggression often blinds us from reality.

I really can't bring myself to look at the Dev team that way. In life as much as anything you should practice an approach that someone you are questioning knows more than you.
So as much as people may not like the current state of the game a lot of the noise comes from bubbles of controversy.


Some among us have probably been critical of FF14 since HW... most certainly it seems at least 5.0 - so any failure that gets picked up presently is treated retroactively as confirmation bias.
I'm not acknowledging truth or falsehoods in this belief but highlighting a single bubble that may operate and be blinded purely in bad faith lassoing or connecting with bubbles of recent controversy.

Another example is recent grumblings about Mogstation items - it never was a major issue before but then this gets added into the bubble... it's a completely irrelevant gripe but it's fuel to the fire.
FF16 didn't sell as well... you get the old school FF audience (which to be fair - every new FF game is hated and then later loved starting with 9 I'd say) But that gets tethered to peoples bad feelings about DT.
Completely unrelated things connecting together.

So many bubbles... These are just a few examples. So much static but the are all clusters of bubbles there's not much in common other than a collected dissatisfaction which only amplifies pre-existing ones.
In so doing creates this illusionary cascade that the current state of the game is in greater disarray than it actually is.

This is the kind of stuff that if it wasn't all disjointed probably be addressed. Even I've been surprised at a lack of response to the growing negative sentiment - and the devs aren't known for not addressing the controversy, especially for the state of the game.
So my suspicion is there must be a reason for their confidence and that confidence makes me confident. The "Let them cook" axiom comes to mind. In times of doubt never panic. In times of certainty time to panic for things to go wrong.
All that being said... I think a direct communication at some point to clear the air with maybe a streamer or something would help better clear the air - less ambiguity that can be misinterpreted. Or a direct message.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AshtonCrowe

WoW Recently has been running laps around you with Housing

---

Grass is often not as green on the other side as you would like to believe, and so true when it comes to WoW. Blizz has a reliable track record of dropping and neglecting content that is no longer considered 'current' or only enjoyed by a minority player base. PvP is a great example, and I don't think Housing will be any different, particularly when opinions on this new addition are polarised. This is what happens when the company primarily focus on profit and not player experience.

How do I know? Well, a few friends and I just left WoW after long years of playing, mainly because we dislike how Blizz runs WoW. We are now trying out both ESO and FF14 and hope they will be different :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nana137

Grass is often not as green on the other side as you would like to believe, and so true when it comes to WoW. Blizz has a reliable track record of dropping and neglecting content that is no longer considered 'current' or only enjoyed by a minority player base. PvP is a great example, and I don't think Housing will be any different, particularly when opinions on this new addition are polarised. This is what happens when the company primarily focus on profit and not player experience.

How do I know? Well, a few friends and I just left WoW after long years of playing, mainly because we dislike how Blizz runs WoW. We are now trying out both ESO and FF14 and hope they will be different :)

---

Tis the truth of the matter.

WoW is still WoW at the end of the day.
It's doing what it can to garner some* good will and if that's enough to say.. slightly tweak our housing system here in FF14. That's good.

But all in all, when people say they want some grinding casual content.

They mean they want it how FF14 can do it. Because we know what it looks like and it's better. (That's where a lot of people are frustrated - They see FF14's untapped potential, but it's a potential UNIQUELY FF14 that WoW can't duplicate)
Because we do eventually want to complete whatever grind we're on and have it there for future generations as something fun for them to do. Just look at Eureka and Bozja or the relic grinds for several weapons or gold saucer.
People still to this day are doing those things but they aren't painful grinds and you don't HAVE to do them.

And that's the honest truth, WoW is still WoW. We FF14 players (not as an insult) we're kind of selfish. We want the good stuff and the experience of having something to log in for... but without it being something we LITERALLY- Have to log in for.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nadda

Because we do eventually want to complete whatever grind we're on and have it there for future generations as something fun for them to do. Just look at Eureka and Bozja or the relic grinds for several weapons or gold saucer.
People still to this day are doing those things but they aren't painful grinds and you don't HAVE to do them.

---

This part makes me think you haven’t played WoW in a while. There really aren’t any super painful mandatory grinds these days. Sure you could grind out reps or similar things but those are just cosmetic grinds, the same as FF14. The days of grinding out AP or farming legendary drops are long gone and have been for over an expansion now.

Yeah a lot of posts here seem to be under the impression shadowlands is still the current expansion

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nadda

slightly tweak our housing system here in FF14. That's good.

---

While I wish Blizz & WoW luck in their endeavours, the success of highly social-related features like Housing is, unfortunately, dependent on the quality of the Player Community - which is Excessively toxic, to say the least. When Housing eventually comes out, I am sure it will be the coolest thing on this planet. But will it last? That I will certainly not bet on it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rolder50

There really aren’t any super painful mandatory grinds these days.

---

I assure you it's just as grindy as before if not more. WoW is ALL about the Grind. In TWW, the Increased Crest Requirements for Gear Upgrades, Higher Mythic+ Dungeon Requirements and Limited Renown Progressions are the first few that come to mind. And when it comes to PvP (where I spent most of my time in), the Conquest (and Honor) Point grinds are LONG and Hard, especially when the space is completely overrun by Premade groups running all day and night, your chance of making any progress there is less than 5% - Painfully slow. Here is a clip of our group (a Premade) completely overwhelm the Horde opponent. Now, imagine the winning chance of players on their side, and this is what players had to put up now, all day. https://youtu.be/hzZCVTdHGKA

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nana137

While I wish Blizz & WoW luck in their endeavours, the success of highly social-related features like Housing is, unfortunately, dependent on the quality of the Player Community - which is Excessively toxic, to say the least. When Housing eventually comes out, I am sure it will be the coolest thing on this planet. But will it last? That I will certainly not bet on it.


I assure you it's just as grindy as before if not more. WoW is ALL about the Grind. In TWW, the Increased Crest Requirements for Gear Upgrades, Higher Mythic+ Dungeon Requirements and Limited Renown Progressions are the first few that come to mind. And when it comes to PvP (where I spent most of my time in), the Conquest (and Honor) Point grinds are LONG and Hard, especially when the space is completely overrun by Premade groups running all day and night, your chance of making any progress there is less than 5% - Painfully slow. Here is a clip of our group (a Premade) completely overwhelm the Horde opponent. Now, imagine the winning chance of players on their side, and this is what players had to put up now, all day. https://youtu.be/hzZCVTdHGKA

---

it's always the recent wow andies that are the biggest white knights for this game. they've plagued ff14 for an xpac in shb causing all the festering issues to go unnoticed and suppressed, but it seems like this is just the norm for them. they hate wow so much they can't help but lick ff14's boots.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kazuke_Miso

they hate wow so much

---

Perhaps you should learn to think and view the situation objectively. You don't want to be that die-hard WoW supporter who would uphold Blizz no matter how bad they got treated in return, assume you aren't really one of them here trying to smear FF14? Just to be clear, I've yet to form any opinion on FF14, and this is only my second day. As for my opinion on WoW, just to state it clearly, I still enjoy the WoW experience, specifically the PvP content - I just don't want to support Blizz's current practice anymore.

Certainly, as pointed out by many FF14 is far from perfect with its own share of problems and you all have the right to want it to be better. However, if people are expecting the situation over there in WoW to be better, that would be risky - you just won't realise the seriousness until you are in it.

Wow would run leaps around ffxiv IF they fixed the terrible mess they did with world pvp (but at this point the only possible fix would be to allow free for all pvp everywhere so it's never going to happen), but as it is now, it doesn't. FFXIV at least has a good story. (gameplay is meh in both games because for some reason everyone is obsessed with PvE and Co-op but also can't design any interesting gameplay around it)

Re: wuk lamat after replaying DT I can confirm that my initial impression that she was fine hold true. Perhaps that's because I form my own opinions rather than listening to the memes and hopping on the hate bandwagon.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nana137

Perhaps you should learn to think and view the situation objectively. You don't want to be that die-hard WoW supporter who would uphold Blizz no matter how bad they got treated in return, assume you aren't really one of them here trying to smear FF14? Just to be clear, I've yet to form any opinion on FF14, and this is only my second day. As for my opinion on WoW, just to state it clear, I still enjoy the WoW experience, specifically the PvP contents - I just don't want to support Blizz's current practice anymore.

---

Don't waste your time. This is an alt of a player who spends their days on the forums using emotional appeal and insults to anyone who disagrees with them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by YumieYumiki

Wow would run leaps around ffxiv IF they fixed the terrible mess they did with world pvp .

---

For me, the problem with the 'current' world pvp design in WoW is the lack of persistent effect and meaningful purposes. But I certainly LOVE pvp in WoW, and my all-time fav will always be the original Ashran in WoD.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by YumieYumiki

FFXIV at least has a good story.

---

In fact, this is the reason my friends and I are trying FF14. So far it's quite refreshing!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gunz_Zbestest

This is an alt of a player who spends their days on the forums using emotional appeal and insults to anyone who disagrees with them.

---

I see and thanks for pointing it out. I am still learning how this forum works and there is a lot to pick up :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nana137

For me, the problem with the 'current' world pvp design in WoW is the lack of persistent effect and meaningful purposes. But I certainly LOVE pvp in WoW, and my all-time fav will always be the original Ashran in WoD.

---

The problem with world pvp currently in wow is that the factions are comically unbalanced. And that's because of the whole warmode deal, where they made it easy to enable/disable world pvp (instead of having to transfer to a different server), so they had to put in some incentive to get people to do world pvp, in the form of those reward crates that are dropepd randomly in the world. But mmo players being mmo players, over time people just switched to the faction that had more people so that they could get the rewards without the hassle of actually doing the pvp.
In other words, world pvp was ok and the bumbling designers had to try and touch it and they ruined it.
There is no undoing the faction unbalance now, which means that there is no fixing world pvp in wow. Unless they turn it into a free for all where factions don't matter, but they'll never do that.

Another day has passed. The radio silence from SE continues.


7.2 on horizon, You will consume, You will stay subbed, You will re-run the same 4 new items till april, And YOU'LL LIKE IT.

I'm not sure if it's been said before, but MMOs have a weird relationship with competition. I for instance have no interest in playing WoW no matter how much of a good game it is, simply because my core friends are playing FFXIV, and I am not remotely interested in Azeroth as a world anymore (Used to play during Wrath/Cata). I'm glad people like it though, if WoW scratches your MMO itch better then go play that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Volgia

I'm not sure if it's been said before, but MMOs have a weird relationship with competition. I for instance have no interest in playing WoW no matter how much of a good game it is, simply because my core friends are playing FFXIV, and I am not remotely interested in Azeroth as a world anymore (Used to play during Wrath/Cata). I'm glad people like it though, if WoW scratches your MMO itch better then go play that.

---

I never quite understand the comparison between FFXIV and WOW in this forum. They are both MMORPG and that’s where the similarities stop. FFXIV 2.0 might have taken some lessons from WOW but I is never meant to be JP WOW.

I think a lot of frustration come from WOW players migrate to FFXIV and found out it is not a WOW replacement

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by User202503201232

At this point one has to wonder whether they even care about FF14 anymore. Their actions and behavior do not fit someone who cares about the longevity and endurance of FF14.

Meanwhile, WoW is trying very hard to get your sub and deliver value. While I personally don't like MMOs in general now, at least I can appreciate that they are trying, hard.

Does it take a disaster and falling off a cliff for FF14 to do the same?

---

I guess you flew too close to the sun . .

07 Fellow Forum Poster

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Misutoraru

I never quite understand the comparison between FFXIV and WOW in this forum. They are both MMORPG and that’s where the similarities stop. FFXIV 2.0 might have taken some lessons from WOW but I is never meant to be JP WOW.

I think a lot of frustration come from WOW players migrate to FFXIV and found out it is not a WOW replacement

---

That's a good point. A lot of the points brought up here are from WoWfugees I'd assume.

And like if WoW is doing good and that's where you want to be enjoy it - I hope that both games can do well.

I said it when FF14 was on the rise to angry WoW players seeing people leave WoW for 14.
I'll say it to angry FF14 players that leave 14 for WoW.

MMOs are a niche genre and we live in a reciprocal environment. I don't care about being number 1. The biggest complaint concerning FF14 is the content cadence.

The Story takes a pen stroke of a creative individual to get going again. The shuffling of content needs to change but that's par for the course for an MMO. You should always be adding and improving on what exists.

FF14 isn't WoW with a Final Fantasy skin over it. Every game does things differently.
Nobody talks about Guild Wars 2 but they do some cool stuff in terms of open world content ya? It's more important that MMOs have a healthy ecosystem of growth and improvement. This competition is a good thing not a bad thing.

This idea that FF14 will be stagnant and not improve is silly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by YumieYumiki

The problem with world pvp currently in wow is that the factions are comically unbalanced.

---

Blizz is aware of this, and there are signs that changes are coming. Also, despite the faction-balancing issue, we still managed to find ways to win. While methods may be different on both sides, the experience often is fun. The real problem is that there is no meaningful purpose, and people get tired after a while.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Misutoraru

I never quite understand the comparison between FFXIV and WOW in this forum.

---

People who can't back their decision would naturally seek affirmation for their choice. I think the comparison is fine as it helps adjust expectations, Being responsible for our actions is the key - Stop and Leave if one is not happy with the money paid for the experience. Getting upset does no good to anyone.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nadda

FF14 isn't WoW with a Final Fantasy skin over it. Every game does things differently.

---

Fortunately FF14 is different enough - we wouldn't bother if it's just another WoW :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Misutoraru

I never quite understand the comparison between FFXIV and WOW in this forum. They are both MMORPG and that’s where the similarities stop. FFXIV 2.0 might have taken some lessons from WOW but I is never meant to be JP WOW.

I think a lot of frustration come from WOW players migrate to FFXIV and found out it is not a WOW replacement

---

The comparisons are generally more what each MMO is doing than wholesale copy/pasting each other's content. Right now you're seeing a big uproar because the housing system WoW showcased is something XIV players have wanted for years. And unlike WoW, XIV is well known for being very glamour and causal oriented.

As for the frustration. Some definitely thought XIV was just a WoW clone still, but others genuinely liked XIV. They simply became bored because XIV takes forever and a day to add new content.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

The comparisons are generally more what each MMO is doing than wholesale copy/pasting each other's content. Right now you're seeing a big uproar because the housing system WoW showcased is something XIV players have wanted for years. And unlike WoW, XIV is well known for being very glamour and causal oriented.

As for the frustration. Some definitely thought XIV was just a WoW clone still, but others genuinely liked XIV. They simply became bored because XIV takes forever and a day to add new content.

---

Yes, the housing thing is a big one. It's a direct shot at FFXIV's system that has had serious issues basically since it's inception around a decade ago. SE just has not cared to meaningfully address the issues and now we have a direct competitor to point at and say "See! You can do this. No matter how many excuses you give."

Not including the excitement that can naturally come with a new MMO, I'm still enjoying FFXIV as much as I did when I joined over ten years ago. Looking forward to the update as usual.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

As for the frustration. Some definitely thought XIV was just a WoW clone still, but others genuinely liked XIV. They simply became bored because XIV takes forever and a day to add new content.

---

I think that - that is the truth of it. Well said.

In 6.0 or was it... earlier half way through Shadowbringers they moved to a 4 month patch release cycle.
I think that's too long.

Things were comfier at a 3-month time window releasing content.

While I think we can all agree the content cadence needs to shift some boxes of content further left down the pipeline as in (more to do in the .1)

They extended the patch cycles the idea being to work on content but then they are releasing the same content they did in a 3 month window and stretching it for 4 months.

That's probably the issue here. Also, I think it's fair to say that when EW decided to forgo a fieldop, relic grind and Variant/Criterion while fun didn't have rewards it left people in this space where majority of what a patch had on offer you could get done in a weeks time if that.

So once we entered into DT. The reason 7.1 was so bad is it was operating as if we had just come off the heels of a Field op and a relic grind.
It makes sense in a universe where after an expansion grinding things you don't want to go into an expansion and immediately grind things.
The issue is... We didn't just leave a big grind. We left EW having nothing much to do... and while DT will have the relic grinds, Field ops content they moved it 10 months away from a year of no grinding.

That's why it feels so long and drawn out.
If we stuck with the 3 month schedule granted it still would have sucked but we wouldn't probably have as many people going feral on the forums. This expansion I think was important then. It highlights the flaws in their release schedule.
Difference is the sentiment. I'm confident things will adapt and change as far as content is concerned. I can't mitigate the gripes people have about job design. I don't have much a problem with it - but I think what we've seen with Picto and Black Mage we should consider a baseline for what 8.0 is gonna look like ... unless 8.0 changes things SUPER drastically. Which in that case might be perceived as worse even if the changes do something completely different.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nadda

They extended the patch cycles the idea being to work on content but then they are releasing the same content they did in a 3 month window and stretching it for 4 months.

---

It was actually a three-and-a-half month cycle extending to four months (with an extra week added in the summer and end-of-year holiday), and the idea was to help reduce the strain on the team. It wasn't that they were using the time to add additional content, it was that they were already providing additional content (e.g. number of quests, number of bosses, number of jobs to balance, amount of dialogue, increase in voiced-lines, amount of items, etc.) compared to earlier years (thanks, in part, to a larger team). The gist of it was that they were fitting more tasks into that three-and-a-half month cycle and it was taking a toll on them.