FF14 player count reached the lowest point in 4 years. We lost 75% of the playerbase.

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Originally Posted by Wasselin

I'm well aware, and do feel sorry for Dynamis players, but that has nothing to do with overall player count and more to do with the introduction of the servers + the datacenter travel feature setting those servers up to fail. They never got a good start even when there were more players and then players stopped even trying to queue there and just datacenter travel instead. It doesn't require millions of players for low queue times, because even back in ARR and Heavensward you could find people to play with.

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It clearly shows that you lack knowledge. Have you been on Chaos DC? The PF has barely raid content. People swapping to Light, so they can farm chaotic runs. It's not fun, if Im forced to swap to other servers. Im restricted from so many functions while traveling, heck I can't even gather timed nodes on other servers.

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Originally Posted by Clockworks

So you are still willing to die on that hill that people on console or standalone somehow are different human beings with different behaviors and ways of playing games

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Except we already know there's a difference between JP and NA. JP tend to do the content more out of respect for the devs putting it out. So they try things more than NA does. NA tends to do only what they like more. I don't know what JP subbing habits are, but NA has a large tendency to unsub until the next thing they want to do comes along. If Steam's usage has a regional majority, then you may see behavior in those players that is different and could skew the data.

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Originally Posted by Wasselin

because even back in ARR and Heavensward you could find people to play with.

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Yeah because back then people played the game, not ERP with Mare in the Quicksand or go to nightclubs and AFK.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

Except we already know there's a difference between JP and NA. JP tend to do the content more out of respect for the devs putting it out. So they try things more than NA does. NA tends to do only what they like more. I don't know what JP subbing habits are, but NA has a large tendency to unsub until the next thing they want to do comes along. If Steam's usage has a regional majority, then you may see behavior in those players that is different and could skew the data.

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they are respecting it so hard that red dots appear on the screen just jokeing.

I like how any time steam charts are used as an example of a games decline, you see all the mouthbreathers who can't grasp the concept of sample sizes.

PleaSSsseeeee ...... wait till you see the server merger than panic ok? lol

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Originally Posted by Sayari

More players mean more game.

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Does it, though? They've had a large influx of players since Stormblood and it hasn't translated to more game.

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Originally Posted by hydralus

Does it, though? They've had a large influx of players since Stormblood and it hasn't translated to more game.

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i mean thats even worse isnt it ? Still Sayari is not wrong with her post. Maybe more players more game is a bid of a bad wording but you know whats the meaning behind

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Originally Posted by Sayari

Less people = less funding = less game. That's it, bottom line, how it works.

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That's one way to see it. Another goes like this: Less people = less funding = company realizes that their flag ship is sinking = more money is invested to get the ship back on course = game improves

So whether the game bleeding subs is good or bad news is totally up to the viewer. But at least voting with your wallet is a feedback that cannot be easily ignored. Whether the company has the skill and brains left to turn the ship around is a totally different question, of course.

The only thing they listen to apparently is money. So the more people unsub, the better. If a restaurant has bad food the customers should stay away until the menu and atmosphere improves.

Can someone, with figures and references to original data, please explain the *75%* in the title of this thread?

I'm looking at the OP, and I'm not seeing that.
I consider the 'population' to be the 'average' population excluding patch peaks. The average seems from those figures, pretty unchanged.
I'm starting to think the biggest problem is that we have 'way' more servers and DCs, and the population has shrunk as much as it's grown, ie it hasn't grown. Leading to hollowed thin spread communities.

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Originally Posted by Gwenkatsu

That's one way to see it. Another goes like this: Less people = less funding = company realizes that their flag ship is sinking = more money is invested to get the ship back on course = game improves

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Originally Posted by Hallarem

The only thing they listen to apparently is money. So the more people unsub, the better. If a restaurant has bad food the customers should stay away until the menu and atmosphere improves.

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Thats where I am more pessimist. Knowing how Square Enix has handled bad games in the past, my fear is that the more people unsub, the less effort Square Enix will put into FF14, until it goes into maintenance mode. Sure, that is a very gloomy outlook, one where I would definitely love to be proven wrong.

Its not surprising. My wife and i WANT to play but we just have nothing to do. The only reason i stay subbed is nostalgia and my House.

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Originally Posted by ovIm

Thats where I am more pessimist. Knowing how Square Enix has handled bad games in the past, my fear is that the more people unsub, the less effort Square Enix will put into FF14, until it goes into maintenance mode. Sure, that is a very gloomy outlook, one where I would definitely love to be proven wrong.

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Yeah, I would not be surprised if they had some other mmo in the making, because 14 years is already a long time, and they know it's gonna be more difficult to get new players on XIV. SE wants a MMO, MMOs have been carrying the company for nearly 20 years, and I would not be surprised they're thinking about a new one.

That said, FFXIV is not FFXI, FFXIV achieved to reach out of the mmo players niche, thus I feel like if XIV is not in a good state when (and if) they release a new mmo, people won't bother checking it because how critical they have been about XIV.

Basically, if they don't have a new mmo, XIV has to perform well, if they have a new one, XIV also has to perform well, because it's gonna be hard to market a mmo "from the company that killed its previous MMO at its peak with bad decisions" or "from the company that let it previous mmo rot".

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Originally Posted by CNitsah

Yeah, I would not be surprised if they had some other mmo in the making, because 14 years is already a long time, and they know it's gonna be more difficult to get new players on XIV. SE wants a MMO, MMOs have been carrying the company for nearly 20 years, and I would not be surprised they're thinking about a new one.

That said, FFXIV is not FFXI, FFXIV achieved to reach out of the mmo players niche, thus I feel like if XIV is not in a good state when (and if) they release a new mmo, people won't bother checking it because how critical they have been about XIV.

Basically, if they don't have a new mmo, XIV has to perform well, if they have a new one, XIV also has to perform well, because it's gonna be hard to market a mmo "from the company that killed its previous MMO at its peak with bad decisions" or "from the company that let it previous mmo rot".

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question is how many would buy another MMO from SE. Thing is if people are already unhappy with 14 and maybe dont trust the company anymore less people will buy it and others will drop out completly because nobody wanna lose his stuff esp houses and builds

It feels like there's just a lack of vision and confidence. The viper changes literally no one asked for not even a week after launch were quite emblematic for it.

Anyone remember like 2-3 weeks ago or whenever, when the forums were full of people claiming players had more than enough to do and they were just being lazy/incompetent/not doing enough ultimates?
‘Why are people complaining about content when chaotic just released just make a PF’

Now suddenly the game is dead as a doornail completely exhausted of all content, creativity and enjoyment? What happened to ‘just do savage/ultimates?’

It’s no wonder the devs can’t keep up lol.

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Originally Posted by Gurgeh

Can someone, with figures and references to original data, please explain the *75%* in the title of this thread?

I'm looking at the OP, and I'm not seeing that.
I consider the 'population' to be the 'average' population excluding patch peaks. The average seems from those figures, pretty unchanged.
I'm starting to think the biggest problem is that we have 'way' more servers and DCs, and the population has shrunk as much as it's grown, ie it hasn't grown. Leading to hollowed thin spread communities.

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Seems to be based on the last chart the OP posted. May of last year was 91,000 players. This month is down to 22,000. But are those only Steam accounts? Doesn't say.

I still assert that player numbers really does not matter to how fun the game is but we still have more players than in ARR and Heavensward. Was the game on the verge of death back then? Not from my perspective it wasn't. I was having just as much fun back then as now.

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Originally Posted by ovIm

Thats where I am more pessimist. Knowing how Square Enix has handled bad games in the past, my fear is that the more people unsub, the less effort Square Enix will put into FF14, until it goes into maintenance mode. Sure, that is a very gloomy outlook, one where I would definitely love to be proven wrong.

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People contend that this is already happening, despite the boost in player numbers.

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Originally Posted by Connor

Anyone remember like 2-3 weeks ago or whenever, when the forums were full of people claiming players had more than enough to do and they were just being lazy/incompetent/not doing enough ultimates?
‘Why are people complaining about content when chaotic just released just make a PF’

Now suddenly the game is dead as a doornail completely exhausted of all content, creativity and enjoyment? What happened to ‘just do savage/ultimates?’

It’s no wonder the devs can’t keep up lol.

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1. This is because it isn't the same people making both points, but different people making different points.

2. I don't think most were saying there is enough to do. The lazy/incompetent remarks were largely made in relation to the complaints around reward structure of Chaotic (Most of them didn't bother reading the actual complaints)

3. Just do xyz is a disappointing response to the complaints levied. How would people like it if I turned around and said "Go get your Centurio Tiger, Pteranodon, go do your several thousand Frontline matches and CC", then come back and complain about lack of content.

4. Devs can't keep up because they only develop long form content once or twice every 5 years. Near enough everything is short-form,

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

1. This is because it isn't the same people making both points, but different people making different points.

2. I don't think most were saying there is enough to do. The lazy/incompetent remarks were largely made in relation to the complaints around reward structure of Chaotic (Most of them didn't bother reading the actual complaints)

3. Just do xyz is a disappointing response to the complaints levied. How would people like it if I turned around and said "Go get your Centurio Tiger, Pteranodon, go do your several thousand Frontline matches and CC", then come back and complain about lack of content.

4. Devs can't keep up because they only develop long form content once or twice every 5 years. Near enough everything is short-form,

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1. That’s fair; the ‘forums’ isn’t exactly a hive mind so certain people possibly saying certain things doesn’t necessarily mean everyone has/will.

2. Yeah, the argument was mostly around the rewards structure and the whole ‘hairstyle’ controversy. And going back to the point above, even if there was one or two people saying those things (‘you can’t complain about content if you haven’t done X yet’), it’s not like the entire playerbase was saying the same.

3. I agree. I mean, there’s always going to be that one piece of content nobody ever manages/wants to do, but it’s not really fair to say like ‘if you want content just do the 10M Gil from leves achievements’ or something lol. Or the dev’s (in)famous ‘if healers are bored they should just do ultimate’. That’s not really much help for the people who don’t want to do content at that level for whatever reason.

4. Agreed; not only is it short-form, but even the short-form stuff we do get is so half-assed it barely even managed to last short-term. Island Sanctuary is a good example. Not to mention they constantly start developing content then just completely drop it to work on some different content without addressing the issues with the first thing lol. Like whatever happened to Deep Dungeon? Does that still exist? Criterions? It’s made worse by how large the wait between patches has become. It wasn’t even that long ago (relatively) that crystal tower deep dungeon happened but it feels like a lifetime ago lol

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Originally Posted by OliverQ

Seems to be based on the last chart the OP posted. May of last year was 91,000 players. This month is down to 22,000. But are those only Steam accounts? Doesn't say.

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It's Steam accounts only, and it's going off of the "peak" number of logins, meaning the single highest (and most anomalous) data point. If you look at the average daily logins per month, you'll see that DT is in virtually the same exact place ShB was, and significantly better than EW. At the 8-month mark, DT has seen its average Steam login drop by 40%, compared to 39% for ShB and 49% for EW. Basically, they're cherry-picking numbers to suit their agenda because the more accurate data shows nothing out of the ordinary is actually occurring.

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Originally Posted by Wasselin

People love to complain about player numbers when it suits them to bolster their own argument but really what difference does it make if there are 1 million or 2 million or 500,000 people playing the game? Does that make the game more fun for your personally to know that there are 1.9mil other people player over only 499,999 thousand?

The number matters for the people at square tasked with making money, but doesn't really matter to players unless it drops to the threshold where the game isn't profitable at all.

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It matters when it's an mmo and you'd just like to see people around. Or better yet, find groups to do content...

"Guys, everyone knows that Steam players are *fundamentally different* from other PC players and console players! Because they often play other Steam games, which PC players who don't play FFXIV through Steam don't tend to do! I have no evidence for this except my personal vibes and how this one friend of mine is like! And even if the game is losing players, which it isn't, it would actually be *good* for the game, because we didn't want or need those stupid WoW players anyway!" - what some comments on here sound like

Man, I want whatever some of y'all are on to think the game is doing great right now and enjoying what little content there is. Sounds nice. I miss being excited and happy about this game.

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Originally Posted by CuteBucket

"Guys, everyone knows that Steam players are *fundamentally different* from other PC players and console players! Because they often play other Steam games, which PC players who don't play FFXIV through Steam don't tend to do! I have no evidence for this except my personal vibes and how this one friend of mine is like! And even if the game is losing players, which it isn't, it would actually be *good* for the game, because we didn't want or need those stupid WoW players anyway!" - what some comments on here sound like

Man, I want whatever some of y'all are on to think the game is doing great right now and enjoying what little content there is. Sounds nice. I miss being excited and happy about this game.

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me to lad me to ... i had one spark of hope for the field operation because i like stuff like mixing jobs in other games. logged in after a while looked at the game and just imidiatly got bored. Yes i know its over a month to go till the patch but man this feeling is for the last half year and i think i will be dissapointed in the end...

I can see the exodus in my own FC and my friend list. People who had been playing since 1.0 have been gone for months now. Hell, I'm only hanging on because of the handful of friends who still play but if I find another MMO, I'll probably be jumping ship as well.

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Originally Posted by AvoSturmfaust

Doesnt account in, Xbox, Playstation and non Steam user, and lets be real steam was the least used platform for ffxiv

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I don't think you understand how percentages work.

Yes, there are platforms other than Steam. The Steam playerbase is a large enough sample size to make accurate estimations on player behaviour though. If 75% of the Steam playerbase has stopped playing then there is no reason to believe that retention is better on other platforms.

The total number of players on Steam is not a useful metric. The % of Steam players who have stopped playing is a useful metric.

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Originally Posted by Striker44

It's Steam accounts only, and it's going off of the "peak" number of logins, meaning the single highest (and most anomalous) data point. If you look at the average daily logins per month, you'll see that DT is in virtually the same exact place ShB was, and significantly better than EW. At the 8-month mark, DT has seen its average Steam login drop by 40%, compared to 39% for ShB and 49% for EW. Basically, they're cherry-picking numbers to suit their agenda because the more accurate data shows nothing out of the ordinary is actually occurring.

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No.

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Every expansion saw growth between x.0 and pre-x.1 censuses.

SB 663k -> 830k
ShB 943k -> 1.2m
EW 1.3m -> 1.7m
DT 1.4m -> 1.1m

In terms of player retention (x.0 peak numbers vs x.1 peak numbers), every patch saw about 45% of initial playerbase returning to x.1 patch, but in case of DT, only 39% returned for 6.1.

|| || |pre x.1| post x.1|Result|
|DT |-290k | -147k |-437k|
|EW|+354k| -369k |-14k|
|ShB |+242k| -221k |+20k|
|SB|+167k| -5k |+162k|

It is likely FFXIV will fall under 1 million active players soon, going under pre-Shadowbringers level.

Comparison data from WaltzForLilly

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https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...low-1-million/

...And claiming cherry picking is legitimately insane because Lucky Bancho is notorious for cherry picking numbers that are favourable for SE. These Dt numbers were taken during a free login campaign, for example.

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Originally Posted by Dante131

me to lad me to ... i had one spark of hope for the field operation because i like stuff like mixing jobs in other games. logged in after a while looked at the game and just imidiatly got bored. Yes i know its over a month to go till the patch but man this feeling is for the last half year and i think i will be dissapointed in the end...

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Field Operations at patch launch? Oh no, no, no, no. We can’t have that.

I mean, what would the playerbase even do if they had to choose between a new raid tier and FO at the same time? We can’t ask that of them. It’s just too much.

In fact, I’d personally ask SE to delay FO to the .28 patch instead of releasing it in .25, so we can all fully exhaust the upcoming Savage tier first.

Whatever they do, they absolutely shouldn’t release it at patch day. That would mean they actually care about addressing the playerbase’s concerns about content drought, and we can’t have that.

After all, CS3 and Yoshi-P need to keep drip-feeding us content, or else we’ll be overwhelmed by having too many choices and burn through it too quickly, especially since there’s no sensible reward structure to make it worth the effort.

Because let’s be real, having meaningful milestones after a grind is asking too much. Weekly lockouts are obviously the only way to keep us engaged.

Isn’t it so nice that we, as adults, don’t have to make these decisions ourselves?

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Originally Posted by Striker44

It's Steam accounts only, and it's going off of the "peak" number of logins, meaning the single highest (and most anomalous) data point. If you look at the average daily logins per month, you'll see that DT is in virtually the same exact place ShB was, and significantly better than EW. At the 8-month mark, DT has seen its average Steam login drop by 40%, compared to 39% for ShB and 49% for EW. Basically, they're cherry-picking numbers to suit their agenda because the more accurate data shows nothing out of the ordinary is actually occurring.

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I mean... it's a titanmen thread. What do you really expect? Hopefully not good faith takes.

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Originally Posted by EliaStormblade

I mean... it's a titanmen thread. What do you really expect? Hopefully not good faith takes.

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It's okay to not know anything about statistics dont worry, people wont hold it agaisnt you

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Originally Posted by Clockworks

It's okay to not know anything about statistics dont worry, people wont hold it agaisnt you

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https://files.catbox.moe/qlz6i5.png
Tell me more about your statistics.

I sure hope you don't think all-time high constitutes the norm, because the highest peak average was at Endwalker launch and went down by 50% the very next month.
(also fwiw I am not to blame for the legacy titanmen has painted for himself. :') )

I love how all the white knights all came back suddenly in the same week. It's almost like it's coordinated and paid for.

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Originally Posted by genuine_stranger

Field Operations at patch launch? Oh no, no, no, no. We can’t have that.

I mean, what would the playerbase even do if they had to choose between a new raid tier and FO at the same time? We can’t ask that of them. It’s just too much.

In fact, I’d personally ask SE to delay FO to the .28 patch instead of releasing it in .25, so we can all fully exhaust the upcoming Savage tier first.

Whatever they do, they absolutely shouldn’t release it at patch day. That would mean they actually care about addressing the playerbase’s concerns about content drought, and we can’t have that.

After all, CS3 and Yoshi-P need to keep drip-feeding us content, or else we’ll be overwhelmed by having too many choices and burn through it too quickly, especially since there’s no sensible reward structure to make it worth the effort.

Because let’s be real, having meaningful milestones after a grind is asking too much. Weekly lockouts are obviously the only way to keep us engaged.

Isn’t it so nice that we, as adults, don’t have to make these decisions ourselves?

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dont remind me ...

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Originally Posted by Red-thunder

I love how all the white knights all came back suddenly in the same week. It's almost like it's coordinated and paid for.

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1. Pointing out facts in the face of flagrant lies =/= whiteknighting. You didn't state that XIV was in a bad spot, you proclaimed that it was down by 75% based on steam trends and did so based on its absolute peak that was momentary, not a monthly average.

2. How new are you? If you've spent any time around FF14 players, you know the rage is ephemeral. If you thought their discontent now was going to be an eternal, unbroken spiral until FF14 was buried in the Mariana Trench, then you're truly naive. For all the cries that it's beyond redemption and that this was the final straw, it takes only a few changes or additions for people to come around to it again. Have the MSQ be somewhat tolerable and add replayable content to tide people over. It's a pendulum. You had to endure the pendulum swing towards the side where people engage in effulgent gushing over how FFXIV is the best thing ever, now you rode it over to the "XIV is doomed it's completely joever this time game is dead" side. And now it's probably going to swing back again. After that, we'll probably bounce back and forth in more minor ways based on how long a patch has been running for.

Also people liking a game you dislike =/= whiteknights. That is another thing that won't endear you to anyone.

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Originally Posted by EliaStormblade

That is another thing that won't endear you to anyone.

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No matter how much you white knight Yoshi P ain't gonna notice you.

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Originally Posted by Red-thunder

Yoshi P ain't gonna notice you.

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Good. I'm a simple customer. Not sure what I'd do with Yoshi P's attention other than tell him to bring back old malmstone (and Feast) gear and cross-job glams.

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Originally Posted by EliaStormblade

https://files.catbox.moe/qlz6i5.png
Tell me more about your statistics.

I sure hope you don't think all-time high constitutes the norm, because the highest peak average was at Endwalker launch and went down by 50% the very next month.
(also fwiw I am not to blame for the legacy titanmen has painted for himself. :') )

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I don’t know, man. What I see is that we’re basically back to the same numbers we had before the WoW exodus during Shadowbringers.

And honestly? I don’t think that being back to ShB numbers after two full expansions is a particularly good sign. Whatever player increase XIV had during that time, SE clearly didn’t manage to hold onto it.

Whether this drop in revenue pushes CS3 to step up and put more effort into the game, or if they just keep doubling down on their current trajectory, we’ll only find out with the next expansion.

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Originally Posted by genuine_stranger

I don’t know, man. What I see is that we’re basically back to the same numbers we had before the WoW exodus during Shadowbringers.

And honestly? I don’t think that being back to ShB numbers after two full expansions is a particularly good sign. Whatever player increase XIV had during that time, SE clearly didn’t manage to hold onto it.

Whether this drop in revenue pushes CS3 to step up and put more effort into the game, or if they just keep doubling down on their current trajectory, we’ll only find out with the next expansion.

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You're fine to be worried about the drop off, but that's a far shot from losing 75% of the playerbase, which is the claim of this thread.

We're not arguing about there being a dropoff, or whether there's issue with DT or not.

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Originally Posted by EliaStormblade

You're fine to be worried about the drop off, but that's a far shot from losing 75% of the playerbase, which is the claim of this thread.

We're not arguing about there being a dropoff, or whether there's issue with DT or not.

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If you look at average it's 60%, if you look at LB it's 61%, and this is during free login too. Feel free to spin this somehow.