7.2 "formula" for Savage needs to CHANGE

Again, as per my last message, the topic is dead. I will come to the next installment meme free(unless there is a aurprise resurge). I ask you please not to respond in contemptuous disdain again as you did just now and I will make my genuine arguement testing the word limit of the Official Forums while not patronizing either.

Fairness.
Full stop.
Promise.
See you there.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

I'm fine with it taking 8 weeks to get max power on a given job. Limiting maximal power is the whole point of time-gating. Build fight to be just barely doable at minimum item level, and gear in excess of that gradually nerfs the fight over time. For those who want the full challenge, there are Minimum Item Level runs.

I'm not fine with it taking another 8 weeks to get BiS on a second job. That shit serves no purpose except to make the "all jobs on one character" selling point of XIV increasingly inapplicable as one nears the upper edge of content difficulty.

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Honestly, you have a very good point. The first job taking longer than the rest makes a lot of sense and I agree that changing alt job gearing might be the better route. Maybe my suggestions are not the best way to go about it. I do wish they would do anything though.

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Originally Posted by Buttobi

Honestly, you have a very good point. The first job taking longer than the rest makes a lot of sense and I agree that changing alt job gearing might be the better route. Maybe my suggestions are not the best way to go about it. I do wish they would do anything though.

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One of the possible solutions I read somewhere about that was tomestone gear unlocks - Once you buy a piece of tomestone gear, you get other pieces of the same category for free (like the artifact gear) or at least heavily discounted. While that would not necessarily solve the BiS issue with raid gear, it would at least allow to give all alt jobs an easier time gearing up without shortening the time it takes for the first job to be geared up.
Not sure if that would be very easy to implement or how that would impact gearing as a whole in this game, though, if I am honest.

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Originally Posted by ovIm

One of the possible solutions I read somewhere about that was tomestone gear unlocks - Once you buy a piece of tomestone gear, you get other pieces of the same category for free (like the artifact gear) or at least heavily discounted. While that would not necessarily solve the BiS issue with raid gear, it would at least allow to give all alt jobs an easier time gearing up without shortening the time it takes for the first job to be geared up.

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My go-to has been to treat weekly/Savage gear acquisition alike to a research unlock. From then on, you can buy the same slot with uncapped currency.

They could tie personal chests to achievements since they already track reclears and gear all your jobs by week 12 without the need of all these pointless tokens.

7.18 coming on February 25th and as always with .18 patch they'll remove Savage restrictions and tomestone cap.
I hope for the second part of Live Letter, this outdated formula of late tier unlocks and its problem will be addressed and changed with 7.2 onwards. There is literally no reason to wait till one month before next tier or major patch to unlock current tier.

Agreed. Although, I'm not sure my solutions would be the same.
I'd love to try savage.
But I'm not crafting gear for it. I've remembered I love crafting 'sometimes' when I can do a bit for fun, for a quick goal, for a change. Not because 'I have to' and 'grind it'.
I can't afford crafted because prices are too inflated by a community that uses short cuts, automations, worst of all tedious min-maxing, which I do enough of in my 9-5. Made worse by the fact that I'm now 'playing other games'.

As far as I can tell there is no other gear that works for savage unless you want to be doing 1/5 when MOST everyone else is on 4/8.

Worse still, I just don't do any roul content once I've got my 450, and once I've finished my second job, I won't be doing any.
Normals are useless for savage as it takes too long, time gate wise.

I might try savage in PF. But look forward to this casual gamer, in miIlvl gear, single/double melded only coming to a PF near you.i think you can maybe even do savage in full set current Expert dungeon gear?
So I'm probably going to get kicked. So this will probably last about 3 days.

They need to start doing it after a set amount of weeks instead of doing it by patch because the time between patches keeps increasing.

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Originally Posted by Gurgeh

Agreed. Although, I'm not sure my solutions would be the same.
I'd love to try savage.
But I'm not crafting gear for it. I've remembered I love crafting 'sometimes' when I can do a bit for fun, for a quick goal, for a change. Not because 'I have to' and 'grind it'.
I can't afford crafted because prices are too inflated by a community that uses short cuts, automations, worst of all tedious min-maxing, which I do enough of in my 9-5. Made worse by the fact that I'm now 'playing other games'.

As far as I can tell there is no other gear that works for savage unless you want to be doing 1/5 when MOST everyone else is on 4/8.

Worse still, I just don't do any roul content once I've got my 450, and once I've finished my second job, I won't be doing any.
Normals are useless for savage as it takes too long, time gate wise.

I might try savage in PF. But look forward to this casual gamer, in miIlvl gear, single/double melded only coming to a PF near you.i think you can maybe even do savage in full set current Expert dungeon gear?
So I'm probably going to get kicked. So this will probably last about 3 days.

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Try asking around your friends/FC. Many crafters are happy to help craft you a gear set if you provide the tome mats or help them gather some things. I highly recommend running some maps if you need gil. It's a very low stakes activity with fairly good rewards and the gil you get stacks up FAST. Materia are super easy to get now. And very cheap at this point.

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Originally Posted by PercibelTheren

Try asking around your friends/FC. Many crafters are happy to help craft you a gear set if you provide the tome mats or help them gather some things. I highly recommend running some maps if you need gil. It's a very low stakes activity with fairly good rewards and the gil you get stacks up FAST. ...

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I get you and this help is greatly appreciated, but I'm sure many who've seen my posts know what's coming. I don't mind maps, but they are something I 'really' enjoy if I save then as occasional content. It's a once a month thing for me, maybe every 2 weeks.
It was bad enough Hildi being spoiled by my being forced to use it all up for relics. It was wonderful content to have saved up as a treat. Again maps has limited replayability because it's not challenging (and maps must not be made challenging, it's fun RNG content for all. 3-8 people)
People have said you can look in pf for crafting help and I will look. I just don't ever ask for help. If a friend offers I might take them up on it. If someone else offers they'd have to convince me they enjoy it. Because I know the reason I won't do it is because I dont want to put the effort into crafting, which shouldn't become their problem. I had friends in my old community I know would have enjoyed helping. But lack of cross DC party finder, EW content and DT MSQ and content, absolutely murdered that community. And I haven't bothered to replace it since unsubbing and playing other games.

Ultimately we can try the other routes to crafted, but really if they are not going to offer enough of each type of content to mean there is other stuff to enjoy while you suffer grinding crafting or mindless min max gil/hunt farming, then the crafting or gil farming just becomes an unbearable totality of your experience. I I've only just started enjoying crafting again now I'm able to craft whatever whenever, rather than me being constantly sick of it from the last time I ground out some 90-100 levelling because I thought I was obliged to.

It amazes me that they have not already released recipes for the new crafted gear so that we have something to work towards if we want to join new savage. Just lock out running the craft. Or have each police need 1 gatherable item, that you can only get on day 1.
My god! If I could use my time 'now' to be ready for crafting gear, personally I would 'love' that!
But I'm not researching Reddit articles about what to 'speculate' on gathering. That's plain gambling to me. I resent gambling, I get no pleasure from speculating. My brain is missing the reward pathways that motivate other people to do that kind of time/resource wasting.

With so little content, why do they do such a shit job of shepherding their players between it all.
I know why, it's a cultural resistance and even blind spot to change. This is how it was first imagined to meet initial needs, and now that is 'the way the thing is!'.

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Originally Posted by Akroya

7.18 coming on February 25th and as always with .18 patch they'll remove Savage restrictions and tomestone cap.
I hope for the second part of Live Letter, this outdated formula of late tier unlocks and its problem will be addressed and changed with 7.2 onwards. There is literally no reason to wait till one month before next tier or major patch to unlock current tier.

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The tome cap won't change until 7.55.

Uhhhh... expect like 0 changes with their formula until next expansion... Unfortunately these kinds of things are few and far between and all the more rare mid-content...

There will be great changes coming in 8.0. Please look forward to it.

I dont think this game needs to change at all, I think the formula is fine, it is what saved FFXIV after all and will keep saving it for the next 10 years.
Just keep subbing guys, we will pass WoW soon

The problem is that people treat this like their standard PC MMO and are expecting PC game mechanics, variety and gameplay depth when in reality it’s a console game and it says ‘hi I’m a console game’ literally wherever you go, so it shouldn’t be that hard to figure.

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Originally Posted by Kandraxx

The problem is that people treat this like their standard PC MMO and are expecting PC game mechanics, variety and gameplay depth when in reality it’s a console game and it says ‘hi I’m a console game’ literally wherever you go, so it shouldn’t be that hard to figure.

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I mean, FFXI was a console game.

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Originally Posted by ovIm

Small indie company please understand.

Silly jokes aside, we all know this is because Square Enix is not considering the time passed in weeks, but in patch milestones for when to unlock what. "Savage will always be unlocked on the last patch before the next big one" and such. The devs should consider a more week based approach on unlocking the loot of instances at this point.

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Right. As OP said, it's been over 180 days now. Six months is PLENTY of time.

I am the representative midcore player who dabbles in Savage and I just finished my last job to 100, so now I'm ready to tackle Savage again. Having it unlock when the last patch dropped would have been perfect.

I still can't understand why Square is so stubborn about unlocking Savage loot so late. We're getting a new tier in a month. Unlocking the current tier this late makes no sense and has no significance from the perspective of an average player. Especially since, even though they lifted the loot restrictions from Savage today, we still have the 450 tomestone cap per week. It's so absurd that ever since they released CAD, we’ve been able to farm BIS items without any restrictions from the Chaotic Raid. Something is seriously wrong on their end, and the whole system needs changes. But as we can see, they’re afraid to touch this issue and prefer to leave it as it is. Waiting over 30 weeks to unlock a tier only to have it available for just a month before an entirely new tier drops—where the current BIS gear will be irrelevant—completely misses the point.

I always smile when I see the title of this thread with "CHANGE" shouted out. I can picture the YouTube thumbnail of their angry face, shaking their fist at a picture of Yoshi-P with sad eyes drawn on.

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Originally Posted by OliviaLugria

There will be great changes coming in 8.0. Please look forward to it.

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Sorry guys, we've done some 'investigation', and it turns out we cannot implement these ideas because our code is just too legacy, and would require far too many changes.. But by the way we still want to run another 10 years, and we'll look at it again in 9.0.

they need to make it open when ultimate hits,if your job is not great atleast you are geared for the other one and be ready.

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Originally Posted by Hallarem

I wish the fight design wasnt a memory game.

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Yeah because letting the boss do anything they want at any time would work out wonderfully. Imagine if the boss did the same mechanic 5 times in a row that prevent melee from getting to it and only your ranged could do damage. Or the boss would use a skill that put everyone to 1 hp with doom until healed to full multiple times in a row.

They order the skills for that specific purpose. This is not unique to XIV. Every MMO is about remembering patterns and doing things in a specific order. If you don't like it, go play Stardew Valley.

I do think that the 21 weeks to get one set of gear is nonsensical. The cost of items should be halved or the drops doubled. Weekly Tomestones should be 650 a week and not the 450. Considering the gear is 720 and not 730, who cares? At 650 tomes a week it would still take 8 weeks to get the 720 gear which sounds way more reasonable than 12.

Once it hits 3 months, the tier should open with no limit to drops.

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Originally Posted by Akroya

AAC Light-heavyweight Tier (Savage) was released on July 30, 2024.

It has been 184 days or six months or 26 weeks and two days (taking today's date of January 30 as a reference point) since then.

Unfortunately, despite the passage of such a significant amount of time and given the recent release of Cloud of Darkness Chaotic (COD) where you can farm without any restrictions BiS gear with ilvl730 I don't see ANY sense or reason why current raid tier is still locked and weekly limited in terms of acquiring gear.

This formula is not working, and it needs to change in 7.2 onwards.

Also, I don't understand why we're still restricted to obtain only 450 Tomestones of Heliometry per week. Why it's not at least doubled at this point, or why the restriction is not removed at all? This needs to change as well with correlation with removing Savage drop restrictions.

In my humble opinion, after the set time has elapsed (e.g. 10-12 weeks) the entire Savage tier should be completely unlocked and the weekly cap on Tomestones should be doubled or lifted entirely.

There is no real reason to NOT change that. Waiting for more than 26 weeks for loot restriction removal, while "soon" we'll be getting new tier raid (7.2) with new BiS items makes current gear obsolete in no time. It doesn't make sense to farm those items such late in a patch right before new crafting / normal raid / savage gear will drop.

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There is a reason not to change it. Money.

If you were to get all of your stuff quicker and have BIS and nothing else to do, then your sub would lapse and XIV would lose even more players during DT.

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Originally Posted by MathiasHellsing

Yeah because letting the boss do anything they want at any time would work out wonderfully. Imagine if the boss did the same mechanic 5 times in a row that prevent melee from getting to it and only your ranged could do damage. Or the boss would use a skill that put everyone to 1 hp with doom until healed to full multiple times in a row.

They order the skills for that specific purpose. This is not unique to XIV. Every MMO is about remembering patterns and doing things in a specific order. If you don't like it, go play Stardew Valley.

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Just because someone is too unimaginative or, frankly, too low IQ to think of ways to make something work, it doesn't mean that it is actually impossible.

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Originally Posted by MathiasHellsing

Yeah because letting the boss do anything they want at any time would work out wonderfully. Imagine if the boss did the same mechanic 5 times in a row that prevent melee from getting to it and only your ranged could do damage. Or the boss would use a skill that put everyone to 1 hp with doom until healed to full multiple times in a row.

They order the skills for that specific purpose.

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You just script the boss not to use the same skill five times in a row, lol. I'm sure they're not advocating for PURE RNG, just more general unpredictability.

No surprises. Patch 7.2 brings no changes to the weekly tomestone cap or the restrictions on Savage loot.
Once again, it’s the same old formula —30 weeks of farming Savage gear, over 30 weeks of farming 450 tomestones per week, only for the Savage restrictions to be lifted a month before the next tier while the tomestone cap remains in place.

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Originally Posted by Akroya

No surprises. Patch 7.2 brings no changes to the weekly tomestone cap or the restrictions on Savage loot.
Once again, it’s the same old formula —30 weeks of farming Savage gear, over 30 weeks of farming 450 tomestones per week, only for the Savage restrictions to be lifted a month before the next tier while the tomestone cap remains in place.

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they won't uncap tomestone because you'll get new crafting comp to buy with current capped tome (that'll become the uncapped one), even if i find the tomestone system boring as hell

I've always hated RL time gates in a game. FF14 are some of the worst. The idea is to withhold gear from us so we don't trivialize the content and don't fully gear in week one?

Most of us clear all the content we are interested in doing in the first few hours after the patch. Those interested in savage/ultimates usually a few days after that. I don't even bother getting BiS anymore, just throw on whatever meager scraps I can get weekly, clear the savage. Then log in to placehold the FC house till next patch. I miss the days, yeaaaars ago when the FC would be buzzing about how many jobs they have geared up and everyone always hopeful they removed the cap so we would have a reason to grind the content. We WANTED to grind the content, but there is no reward after a few dailies and a hunt train. No point in logging in and getting BiS on a single job after you already cleared the savage with only gloves and boots BiS. No point in grinding for bragging and feeling slightly more powerful when 3 weeks after you finally get fully geared, they going to introduce next gear set with A WHOLE 5 more ilvl. Clear Savage, wait for next patch, everyone cancel sub except FC leader to hold house, go play monster hunter.

FC/Discord/Gaming group has like 50 active members but other than me logging in to do frontline and step in house, next member down list hasnt got on in 60 days. We get in our oats and log on and knock out dailies sometimes. Then we are capped and not really anything to do for any real reason, especially no reason to do roullettes, so back over to whatever other 3 dollar game is on sale on steam for us to actually enjoy.

They know everything is designed for the first time experience in XIV with little to no shelf life. The only way for them to artificially create that shelf life is to add weekly caps. Nobody would run their content past a couple of weeks otherwise in absolutely all categories of content.

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Originally Posted by Valence

They know everything is designed for the first time experience in XIV with little to no shelf life. The only way for them to artificially create that shelf life is to add weekly caps. Nobody would run their content past a couple of weeks otherwise in absolutely all categories of content.

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But they simultaneously tell you "don't worry, you can just play other games, Monster Hunter is out right now!!"

lmfao

I stopped doing savages. I just stopped caring about having bis all that stuff. The ultimate weapons so far are w/e too.

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Originally Posted by PaulusHamsteru

I stopped doing savages. I just stopped caring about having bis all that stuff. The ultimate weapons so far are w/e too.

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good, will be less time wasters in PF 😅

*stares in 7.31*

The face of the man, when the man realizes that time wasters are keeping his parties filled

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

My go-to has been to treat weekly/Savage gear acquisition alike to a research unlock. From then on, you can buy the same slot with uncapped currency.

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I really like this idea. Not being able to flex because I can't gear any alt jobs is just so painful.

I wish Savage had better rewards too. Gear is useless outside of the current Ultimate, which this patch doesn't even have. The only other rewards (a mount and orchestrion roll) only drop from the fourth raid and may not be to everyone's tastes. Personally I am not a huge fan of the Solution 9 car mount from M8S.

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Originally Posted by Hallarem

I wish the fight design wasnt a memory game.

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I, for once, will oppose this statement. I like that fight design is a memory game and you do not have do stuff like active dodging or parrying like in many other MMORPGs. As a player with low reflexes, I really appreciate not needing to press a button in 0.25 second parry window or die.

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Originally Posted by Alicie

I, for once, will oppose this statement. I like that fight design is a memory game and you do not have do stuff like active dodging or parrying like in many other MMORPGs. As a player with low reflexes, I really appreciate not needing to press a button in 0.25 second parry window or die.

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As someone that vehemently hate rote memorization, I do agree with your statement too. XIV isn't an action game nor is it built for it, and that kind of parrying is one of the few negatives I dislike about XIV pvp as well.

nothigng will ever change and you will like it

And the Tomes are still capped to 450. It's almost October...