Zepla's Dawntrail MSQ Analysis

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

I don't know if DT is much better, but I've been going through bits and pieces of EW content and it feels incredibly awkward and stale at this point, especially when it shifts jarringly from one to the other depending on the current mood.

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It is not. There are new tracks that would absolutely slot in just as well that get ignored in favour of the exact tracks you've listed here.

Worst still, tracks that get heavily associated with certain characters from Endwalker have been used in a generic fashion in DT, too. It really feels weird when I typically feel FF14 does a solid job of respecting motifs.

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Originally Posted by Remarus

Not only did we as a community ask for a lowering of the stakes post-EW, we welcomed the idea of a low-stakes beach adventure when DT was announced. That means you can't have every opening dungeon be a sky is split moment. We have to build back up to that, or else we have the World of Warcraft and Guild Wars 2 problem of every single threat being somehow bigger and badder than the last and *this time it's for real.*

DT's story did a lot of things poorly, but delivering on the promise of a lower scale threat for the grand majority of it was not one of them. Sphene/The Endless would only make it into the Top 10 list because we've had 6 expansions worth to fill it out.

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I didn't even say anything about the expansion's overall stakes. We're talking about SE potentially using a cookie-cutter formula for the MSQ, specifically referencing how the last 3 MSQs have had a sort of pattern with like the final dungeon being the bosses memories or whatnot. I'm saying there was no "moment", nothing interesting or relevant happened. You could completely remove Dawntrail's first dungeon and the story doesn't change at all, whereas Shadowbringers and Endwalker the first dungeon is actually part of the story and stuff actually happens.

If the first dungeon is an "MSQ package" then it's a Stormblood package, and there's no good reason to intentionally go back to that.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

1st half of fiscal year (ended September 2024)

MMO Division

Net Sales: 32.4 billion yen
operating income: 13.1 billion yen


The numbers include sales of the current expansion, which increased operating income greatly. [Q1 was 6.6 billion yen on 12.5 billion net sales)

Operating income is what the company uses to purchase shares, pay dividends, fund new development, and run the company as a whole.

Seems to me that putting almost 20 billion yen into the game itself (operating costs, salaries, marketing, whatever) can't be considered "barely".

Blame the company for whatever (unsatisfying expansion, mediocre gameplay, not enough shills on Twitch), but don't use "this game gets barely any of the proceeds", because that, at least, can be disproved.

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A large chunk of that will have gone into outsourcing the mobile game.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

1. The developers do because they said they watch Zepla's videos.
2. They are not just content creators, they are players and human beings.
3. She had been working on the video for ages.

I don't even subscribe to her, I just see what's going on in the FFXIV category on YouTube because the recommendations are perfect in recent years and inform me of everything important in YouTube's FFXIV space, regardless of their subscriber count.

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Ok but did you like not have an opinion before you were given one or something?

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Originally Posted by Immut

Ok but did you like not have an opinion before you were given one or something?

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I am never "given" an opinion. I just wanted to share the video here for the reasons stated especially since we know the developers like to watch her videos.

I don't have a creative writing degree, so my analysis is much less nitpicky than her's.

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Originally Posted by BigCheez

A large chunk of that will have gone into outsourcing the mobile game.

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Oddly enough, the relationship between Tencent and Square Enix was explained quite differently in a recent [February 2024] Reuter's article explaining the end of development for a Nier mobile game by Tencent:

"Mobile games adapted from famous computer and console games, known as intellectual property (IP) games, often entail hefty fees to IP owners, in this case to Square Enix.

Royalty fees of 15% to 20% of sales are typical, the people said, while Apple's App Store takes a 30% cut and marketing and user acquisition can cost another 30% to 40%, leaving slim profit margins.

As growth in mobile games slows and development costs rise, Tencent is finding that many IP games are becoming too expensive to pursue, the people said.

One of the people said that Tencent was only willing to pay royalty fees below 10% in recent negotiations with IP holders."

Doesn't seem like a hefty "investment" on Square Enix's part. More like free cash cow -- no development, no risk.

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Originally Posted by Larirawiel

They put 20 billions into the MMO division. And this division is way more than FF14 only. :)

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You are absolutely right. So, how much of those 20 billion yen did FF11 and their only other MMORPG, Dragon Quest X, utilize? And how much of the 32 billion net sales are they responsible for, specifically?

"[The] division is way more than FF14 only" = "Square Enix's MMO division currently supports three MMORPGs, of which one (FF11) isn't even mentioned in financial reports"

Sorry I can't use that persons clown with a mic thing to anything, the person is very short sighted and a joke.

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Originally Posted by CamuiKushi

It is not. There are new tracks that would absolutely slot in just as well that get ignored in favour of the exact tracks you've listed here.

Worst still, tracks that get heavily associated with certain characters from Endwalker have been used in a generic fashion in DT, too. It really feels weird when I typically feel FF14 does a solid job of respecting motifs.

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This is something XIV's sound direction borrows from long-running anime.
Composers for anime usually come up with certain themes and motifs for specific major story points or characters. Then the directors decide to re-use those themes based on the audience really liking it the first time so let's keep using it + not wanting to use older tracks but also not wanting to allocate budget for even more additional tracks.

Whoever makes those cutscene music decisions in XIV is being very lazy.
Series like Naruto have done this a lot. It undermines the significance of the first time some of the (actually very good) themes because they get used 20 more times, often for situations that are nowhere near as impactful.

Zelpa who? Did she pay the same subscription fee as me?

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Originally Posted by FudoMyoo

Zelpa who? Did she pay the same subscription fee as me?

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Guys look! I’m so quirky and rad that I have no idea who this Zelpa lady is. Aren’t I totes cool? Aren’t you glad I posted about me not knowing who she is?

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

This is something XIV's sound direction borrows from long-running anime.
Composers for anime usually come up with certain themes and motifs for specific major story points or characters. Then the directors decide to re-use those themes based on the audience really liking it the first time so let's keep using it + not wanting to use older tracks but also not wanting to allocate budget for even more additional tracks.

Whoever makes those cutscene music decisions in XIV is being very lazy.
Series like Naruto have done this a lot. It undermines the significance of the first time some of the (actually very good) themes because they get used 20 more times, often for situations that are nowhere near as impactful.

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Agreed - Dragonball Super did this too. The 'Ultimate Battle' track from the Universal tournament was awesome when it was first used, but was then used for almost every major fight that involved Goku to the point where you wound up thinking "oh - that track again".

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Originally Posted by Themarvin

Sorry I can't use that persons clown with a mic thing to anything, the person is very short sighted and a joke.

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Hmph! How very glib.

Just got around to watching Zep's video - thanks OP for the heads up. I felt pretty much the same as Zep after finishing the msq - depressed at how bad it was, and ended up unsubbing for a while. I think Zep did a good job of being critical but even-handed and constructive. I sincerely hope they get the producers of ffxiv to sit down and watch it, and the next time Yoshi does interviews and media tours he gets asked some tough questions instead of people just fawning over him. The MSQ package thing sounds eerily accurate - there are so many recycled elements in the last few expansions, it's like they've run out of imagination or can't be bothered. So much for Yoshi P saying he's grateful for all the fans that have stuck around - I guess they can just have slop now! Having said that I still think there's a lot of fun to be had playing ffxiv, but since Endwalker the msq has been very much to the game's detriment.

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Originally Posted by OlafQuintessa

Just got around to watching Zep's video - thanks OP for the heads up. I felt pretty much the same as Zep after finishing the msq - depressed at how bad it was, and ended up unsubbing for a while. I think Zep did a good job of being critical but even-handed and constructive. I sincerely hope they get the producers of ffxiv to sit down and watch it, and the next time Yoshi does interviews and media tours he gets asked some tough questions instead of people just fawning over him. The MSQ package thing sounds eerily accurate - there are so many recycled elements in the last few expansions, it's like they've run out of imagination or can't be bothered. So much for Yoshi P saying he's grateful for all the fans that have stuck around - I guess they can just have slop now! Having said that I still think there's a lot of fun to be had playing ffxiv, but since Endwalker the msq has been very much to the game's detriment.

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I think we're incredibly unlikely to see anyone pressing Yoshi-P during the media tour. They likely wouldn't be invited to the next one, so it just isn't in their interest. The pattern in most game communities is that content creators will try to be as positive as possible to ensure that they're invited to and given the ability to cover events and whatnot. That rarely changes unless it becomes impossible to do so without coming across as fake to their viewers, which would cause them to lose credibility.

The devs have received torrents of critique since Dt released and the last Lucky Bancho report suggests that things are looking pretty dire in terms of player retention. The number of new players picking the game up has dropped drastically, 33% of the people who started Dawntrail didn't even finish it, and the decline between 7.0 and 7.1 is the sharpest drop off we've ever seen.

Dawntrail started with the highest recorded player numbers of all time and then dropped to the lowest numbers that we've seen since late Stormblood.

The good news is that people are voting with their wallets and that's the best way to have a developer actually listen.

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Originally Posted by xxmiamorecadenza

Guys look! I’m so quirky and rad that I have no idea who this Zelpa lady is. Aren’t I totes cool? Aren’t you glad I posted about me not knowing who she is?

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I envy him.

I do not disagree with a single thing she said in this video.

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Originally Posted by Oizen

I do not disagree with a single thing she said in this video.

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I was almost there but then she complimented Gulool Ja Ja as being a great character and a really cool guy.

He's not better written than the other characters at all. We're just told he's this amazing leader who united the continent but apart from fighting Estinien and us he's sitting his ass all the time in a big empty palace, ddin't lift a finger to help his kin with their crop and isolation problems that led them into this xenophobic culture and horrible ritual to birth blessed siblings. Lets complete idiots who free continental threats for funsies to join a succession trial and couldn't even tell there was something wrong with his relationship with his son.

He's a total jackass on screen. We're only TOLD he did great things in the past. But at the same time we see all this shit he leaves unchecked right under his roof for years.

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

I was almost there but then she complimented Gulool Ja Ja as being a great character and a really cool guy.

He's not better written than the other characters at all. We're just told he's this amazing leader who united the continent but apart from fighting Estinien and us he's sitting his ass all the time in a big empty palace, ddin't lift a finger to help his kin with their crop and isolation problems that led them into this xenophobic culture and horrible ritual to birth blessed siblings. Lets complete idiots who free continental threats for funsies to join a succession trial and couldn't even tell there was something wrong with his relationship with his son.

He's a total jackass on screen. We're only TOLD he did great things in the past. But at the same time we see all this shit he leaves unchecked right under his roof for years.

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I remember going through a long cutscene and someone asked me who was the worst character in FFXIV apart from Wuk Lamat, and I said Gulool Ja Ja for many of the reasons you've already stated. Dismissive father, loss of potential at being a rash and brazen illogical leader due to the nature of his 'wiser' head, heavily-bias to the adoptive children, blaming the corruption of his biological son on his son alone, blackmailing us for Krile's ancestry by ensuring the favorite child wins the throne, spins a lie about the Rite of Succession 'cultivating a leader' when his entire goal was to get the lion queen to replace him, played favorites with the children and outright dismissed the plights of the different cultures around his nation for the sake of the Rite, ignored the cold war that resulted in his adoptive daughter being in Tuliyolal in the first place, 'showed' his children the cultures but did not properly educate them, and the worst part of all is he agreed to allow the god-ending Warrior of Light be the crutch that would enable his favorite candidate to rise above the others without a hint of discipline. There are so many ways the plot would have benefited the new characters that were introduced, and this was the worst of the bunch we got at a heavy price-tag. It wasn't just embarrassing or insulting, it's disgraceful.

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

I was almost there but then she complimented Gulool Ja Ja as being a great character and a really cool guy.

He's not better written than the other characters at all. We're just told he's this amazing leader who united the continent but apart from fighting Estinien and us he's sitting his ass all the time in a big empty palace, ddin't lift a finger to help his kin with their crop and isolation problems that led them into this xenophobic culture and horrible ritual to birth blessed siblings. Lets complete idiots who free continental threats for funsies to join a succession trial and couldn't even tell there was something wrong with his relationship with his son.

He's a total jackass on screen. We're only TOLD he did great things in the past. But at the same time we see all this shit he leaves unchecked right under his roof for years.

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I don't disagree with what you're saying but I do think he's infinitely more amusing than every other character we're paired with. The bar is pretty low that its on the ground.

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Originally Posted by Oizen

I don't disagree with what you're saying but I do think he's infinitely more amusing than every other character we're paired with. The bar is pretty low that its on the ground.

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That's what charisma does and why I loved him in 1st part until 2nd part of MSQ hit but it is a domino effect with the whole family.
As much as I hate to admit I prefer the Garlean Ascian relationship than the mess it was with the DT throne.

Have to admit her video was a good watch, I agree with most of her points but yeah Gulool Ja Ja is not a great character either, we get another tell, don't show why he is so great and how he "united the world" even in her own words it would have been better if he did do it by force. But mellowed over the years to see the error of past mistakes.

Also it just seems like Yoshi P is a little blinded right now to all of this, CB3 has barely made a comment about the unrest with the player base. The completely clueless "We'll show you the cool side of Wuk" shows he has no idea why people disliked this character at all.

I just feel the devs need to admit there are issues before they can move forward otherwise they'll blindly go their own way and loose the humble nature they used to have, right now it's hard to believe these are the same devs that got up on stage and bowed over the state of the game a few years ago.

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

I was almost there but then she complimented Gulool Ja Ja as being a great character and a really cool guy.

He's not better written than the other characters at all. We're just told he's this amazing leader who united the continent but apart from fighting Estinien and us he's sitting his ass all the time in a big empty palace, ddin't lift a finger to help his kin with their crop and isolation problems that led them into this xenophobic culture and horrible ritual to birth blessed siblings. Lets complete idiots who free continental threats for funsies to join a succession trial and couldn't even tell there was something wrong with his relationship with his son.

He's a total jackass on screen. We're only TOLD he did great things in the past. But at the same time we see all this shit he leaves unchecked right under his roof for years.

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To be fair, being half dead for years probably makes it difficult to get out of the house.

Overall valid criticism I'd say, however I personally would be harsher and have much more to say.
But I am not a content creator, otherwise my issues would probably stretch over 3 hours.

That said you saldy can only reach the sane people with it, not the diehard FFXIV fanboys on Social media or Reddit.
They are already dismissing it cause "Ugh Zepla, we no like her anymore, only people that say good things." and cause she dared to play Hogwards Legacy despite the hatemob saying that was 'illegal'.

So sad that valid cirticism is thrown out cause reason is lost with those people.

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Originally Posted by Thaciscokidd

She's voicing complaints about the story that others(NA/EU/JP/2ch/4ch/reddit/etc) have been consistent in saying. Her being a streamer doesn't make her opinions more valid than anyone else's, just louder.

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This is true, and you are correct. However, she acts more like a megaphone than a novel, new set of complaints. She's simply grabbing all the complaints and making a video with them (or at least the ones she agrees with, I guess)
This isn't necessarily something bad.

Also Hrothgar and Viera hats WHEN
WHEN????