How not to be a mentor

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

I'm pretty sure using logs from a website that breaks the TOS and using that information against another player also breaks the TOS. How the info got there isn't relevant.

Good luck kicking someone in game and referencing the logs and seeing what happens.

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Who is kicking someone for their logs? You kick them for being afk which you can see with your eyes. You are some pup I'll say that much, you grab any sort of straw you can to make a post. No one here mentioned kicking someone for their logs. I stated I'd kick someone for being AFK which is absolutely true no matter who you are. Obviously I'm not gonna turf someone instantly when they go AFK or barely hit buttons, I'll give them a chance but I'm not putting up with that for the entire dungeon / raid. As for the logs themselves we were merely referencing it to prove OP has been disengenious with their original post in order to play the victim which we are free to do as we don't need to use third party software to reference that public information.

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Originally Posted by Asako

Who is kicking someone for their logs? You kick them for being afk which you can see with your eyes. You are some pup I'll say that much, you grab any sort of straw you can to make a post. No one here mentioned kicking someone for their logs. I stated I'd kick someone for being AFK which is absolutely true no matter who you are. Obviously I'm not gonna turf someone instantly when they go AFK or barely hit buttons, I'll give them a chance but I'm not putting up with that for the entire dungeon / raid. As for the logs themselves we were merely referencing it to prove OP has been disengenious with their original post in order to play the victim which we are free to do as we don't need to use third party software to reference that public information.

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You are suggesting that using the data on the logs is fine if you didn't cause the information to be there. Except using it in any way adverse to another player is not. "I didn't put the info on the website" isn't a defense if you say "Logs show she's AFK - kick".

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

You are suggesting that using the data on the logs is fine if you didn't cause the information to be there. Except using it in any way adverse to another player is not. "I didn't put the info on the website" isn't a defense if you say "Logs show she's AFK - kick".

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Again, you're not listening at all. You are making up your own statements to also be disengenious, especially when I literally just stated the opposite in my previous post. Show me where I said I would kick someone for their logs being bad. If you would just take a second and read any of the previous posts, people are referencing the logs to dispute the disengenious claims that they started this thread with. The logs have nothing to do with anyones conduct in any instance, why you keep bringing this up I don't know. You're actively going out of your way to create your own arguements over things no one in this thread has said.

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Originally Posted by Asako

Again, you're not listening at all. You are making up your own statements to also be disengenious, especially when I literally just stated the opposite in my previous post. Show me where I said I would kick someone for their logs being bad. If you would just take a second and read any of the previous posts, people are referencing the logs to dispute the disengenious claims that they started this thread with. The logs have nothing to do with anyones conduct in any instance, why you keep bringing this up I don't know. You're actively going out of your way to create your own arguements over things no one in this thread has said.

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You literally made a comment, not responding to anyone in particular, where you said "You are not breaking ToS by referencing a website, only if you are running the yoke required to contribute to it." You then acted like there is this technicality/loophole.

Someone also brought up logs from a 24 man, and not the 4 person dungeon that OP was talking about. So the logs weren't even relevant to OP's story. I'm sure you can try to make inferences as to their behavior in the dungeon the OP was actually talking about, but there were no logs of that. The OP could have been truthful as far as DPSing in the dungeon at that time, who knows?

I'm also not going out of my way to create arguments. I just found your statement to be potentially misleading to some, since it seems to state that you can use the info in the website so long as you weren't the one running the program. Someone could interpret this to mean you can use the info in game - since that's the only place the logs would really matter because who really cares about what happens here on the forums.

If you only meant to say you can use logs to discredit people on the forums - then...probably? Since very little is moderated here. If they were consistent they wouldn't allow it here, either.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

So the logs weren't even relevant to OP's story.

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Absolutely not true. It speaks to OP's play style and mindset during content. Which is clearly to AFK and do as little as possible beyond healing.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

The OP could have been truthful as far as DPSing in the dungeon at that time, who knows?

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All the evidence we have indicates that OP does not, in fact, DPS. OP has contributed nothing to the contrary, therefore, the logical thing is to assume OP is misrepresenting this situation, which is an incredibly common thing to do online.

You can fuss and whine over where the evidence came from, but the simple fact is the website in question exists, is easy to reference, and is the best way to determine whether someone is being truthful about situations like this.

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Originally Posted by Collin_Sky

Absolutely not true. It speaks to OP's play style and mindset during content. Which is clearly to AFK and do as little as possible beyond healing.



All the evidence we have indicates that OP does not, in fact, DPS. OP has contributed nothing to the contrary, therefore, the logical thing is to assume OP is misrepresenting this situation, which is an incredibly common thing to do online.

You can fuss and whine over where the evidence came from, but the simple fact is the website in question exists, and is easy to reference.

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OP hasn't commented at all since and has made 2 posts. Them not wanting to argue about someone throwing logs from another instance in their face means nothing. I already said you can try to make inferences, but the fact remains we have no logs from this particular story. They claimed they DPS, they don't need to repeat themselves.

I'm also not fussing and whining. I find the act of going to look up logs on someone to argue with them over a general point "be nice to people in instances/ don't badger other players" to just be childish in general. I already stated that even if OP was a terrible player - that does not give anyone the right to badger through an entire instance.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

I'm also not fussing and whining.

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100% are.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

I find the act of going to look up logs on someone to argue with them over a general point

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Finding evidence to understand a one-sided situation is literally the first thing you should do. Or are you one of those types that just believes what someone says, even if it sounds fishy?

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

that does not give anyone the right to badger through an entire instance.

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Personally, if OP wasn't DPSing I'd have just vote dismissed them instead of bothering to interact with someone like that, as clearly OP thinks they're in the right due to how they worded their post. They also never said that it was through the entire instance, either.

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Originally Posted by Collin_Sky

100% are.

Finding evidence to understand a one-sided situation is literally the first thing you should do. Or are you one of those types that just believes what someone says, even if it sounds fishy?

Personally, if OP wasn't DPSing I'd have just vote dismissed them instead of bothering to interact with someone like that, as clearly OP thinks they're in the right due to how they worded their post.

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First, going back and forth about my own state of mind when I type, as though you know anything at all, is nonsensical. I don't really care if your opinion is that I am "fussing and whining" when I'm just calmly typing, but whatever.

As to your second point, Nope - I don't feel the need to research every poster's background to discredit them over a forum post. I care about the greater issue they raised - how players treat one another - and the specifics of OP's story doesn't need to be verified to talk about that.

Even if everyone here just said "that sucks OP - hope the next dungeon goes better" why would that even matter? Even if she made up the entire story and she sat giggling that she sure fooled us all as she never DPSes - who cares? It's just dumb.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

I care about the greater issue they raised - how players treat one another .

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You're right, lying about how other players act and creating a general distrust for mentors doesn't matter

Thank god you're here to keep us focused on the really important things like *checks notes* asking a healer who provably doesn't DPS to DPS

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Originally Posted by Collin_Sky

You're right, lying about how other players act and creating a general distrust for mentors doesn't matter

Thank god you're here to keep us focused on the really important things like *checks notes* asking a healer who provably doesn't DPS to DPS

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You're welcome.

The mentor is innocent untill proven guilty, OP has not shown any evidence other than their testimony

Case closed

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

OP hasn't commented at all since and has made 2 posts.

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Of course not. Not even "regular" forum white knights are able to defend this without looking like absolute fools. You are basically the only one left at this point. You can draw your own conclusions as to what it makes you look like.

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Originally Posted by AllenThyl

Of course not. Not even "regular" forum white knights are able to defend this without looking like absolute fools. You are basically the only one left at this point. You can draw your own conclusions as to what it makes you look like.

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Someone who doesn't believe in mistreating others in a video game just because they don't play well. Hope that helps!

OP hasn't commented since because they've made a fool out of themselves.

They've provided no evidence of a mentor having said or done anything toxic to them. In lieu of literally ANY evidence from either the mysterious mentor or OP all that anyone can do is draw conclusions based on recorded logs of their gameplay. From those logs it's quite obvious that they're not doing "Something" right. Doing 0 DPS? That makes you a healbot. I'd say this puts you on the same level as the Garrison healers but even they're capable of using DPS abilities when there is nothing to heal. It's only natural a Mentor would notice this behaviour, and actually do their job by providing advice, which gets taken as a personal insult and framed as "Mentor Toxicity!" in all likeliness. I'm tired of these attitudes, and I'm tired of hearing these exagerated stories constantly both on the forums, and in Novice Network chats. If you want to be a heal bot and waste everyones time by doing the bare minimum expected of your role you should be playing with the duty support NPC's, and not wasting the time of the three other people you're playing with. If you have insecurities about playing your role incorrectly the resources are out there to learn, you can ask for advice in Novice Network, you can ask that dreaded toxic mentor for feedback even - But they make no active efforts to do so, because they don't care about the time of the other people they're playing with.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

Someone who doesn't believe in mistreating others in a video game just because they don't play well. Hope that helps!

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It's nothing of the sort. It's yet another forum post disrespecting mentors whilst proving nothing. Sure there are plenty of terrible mentors, but a lot of them are genuine and honestly try to help other players. OP came here to add to the mentor hate with no proof of anything yet looking validation on their antics.

You are correct that we also don't have the evidence of this certain incident, which is why when facing a situation like this you look to all available information on the people involved before making a decision. The evidence available that the not DPSing tracks with OP stlye of play which is why it was called out. I have yet to see any evidence to suggest that the mentor involved did anything wrong when he gave his advice. It's possible, no one here would dispute that, but without evidence you cannot say they are being mistreated because they don't like the feedback they are recieving.

No one here is looking to bully, mistreat or harrass anyone, it's that it's an mmo and you have to respect the time of all players involved. You can take them to the water but you can't make them drink it. If they don't want to take your advice and they want to waste peoples time by not making a reasonable effort, [again, no one is expecting everyone to be superstars] then the party should absolutely consider kicking said player if they just want to get on with it.

Giving feedback isn't mistreating someone, but going out of your way to post of the forums with hearsay and no evidence just to discredit a group of players to incite more hate is ridiculous and is why most people in this thread have called it out.

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Originally Posted by Archeron

OP hasn't commented since because they've made a fool out of themselves[…]

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Or they’ve done what they wanted to do: baiting folks to argue at one another while they watch the world burn.

Stop spamming Medica

If a run's going smoothly and we're moving along without noticeably long pauses, then I'm not going to care if the healer is dpsing or not. The dps are obviously doing their jobs. If someone in that situation was harping on dps and was typing more than fighting, they're probably the one I'd get annoyed with. A dungeon really isn't the time or place for extensive instruction. I've seen some mentors try to do that when the rest of us are just trying to get through the run, so there are some mentors who do need to pick their timing better.

Nothing wrong with it and also you only need to do spot healing in Expert Roulette, this faster the things die this better, if you focus too much on healing you would slow down the group severe, but again it depends on the tank, alot of paper tanks out there too.

The focus in FFXIV is that every job regardless of being healer, tank, full time dps is DPS.

DPS > Heal/Tank/off things.


EDIT:

I would also like to add that there is DPS jobs that do horrible as well meaning more heals will be needed on the trash pulls, due to they do not do AOE's and more more down those lines, so no one is safe for doing a bad job.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

If a run's going smoothly and we're moving along without noticeably long pauses, then I'm not going to care if the healer is dpsing or not. The dps are obviously doing their jobs. If someone in that situation was harping on dps and was typing more than fighting, they're probably the one I'd get annoyed with. A dungeon really isn't the time or place for extensive instruction. I've seen some mentors try to do that when the rest of us are just trying to get through the run, so there are some mentors who do need to pick their timing better.

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If one person isn’t doing half their job then by definition the run isn’t going smoothly

My issue with healers not DPSing isn't their DPS, it's the fact as a Tank main I can say that Tanks play with that in mind, our CD's are limited and we need to space them out, once they fall off and the mobs are still alive you just get dunked on making it much more difficult for the healers, that's what I try to explain to them. We're just trying to make the game easier for them.

If they want my advice happy days, if not it doesn't really matter. If I die I die and we move on. I'm usually very positive about runs. It's only players that make zero effort that I don't have time for.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

Someone who doesn't believe in mistreating others in a video game just because they don't play well. Hope that helps!

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Is "she" your alt or something? I don't get it. You don't need a website, nor a log to sense something was amiss and stuff didn't add up. The log where it shows she did 0 dps confirmed the suspicions people had regarding the situation. Nobody is mistreating them over the log but for the fact they had the audacity to whine and play the victim while being deceitful.

Stop trying to be the noble white knight in shiny armor for a person like that.

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Originally Posted by Kohashi

Is "she" your alt or something? I don't get it. You don't need a website, nor a log to sense something was amiss and stuff didn't add up. The log where it shows she did 0 dps confirmed the suspicions people had regarding the situation. Nobody is mistreating them over the log but for the fact they had the audacity to whine and play the victim while being deceitful.

Stop trying to be the noble white knight in shiny armor for a person like that.

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Don't be ridiculus. It doesn't have to be my alt to not be in support of badgering someone who plays poorly.

And despite being so unpopular at the tail end of this thread I reported the post that used FFLogs to disparage the OP, and it looks like the mods agreed with me and removed that post. So unlike everyone who disagreed with me, it turns out I was right - you can't use FFLogs to attack people on the forums.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

Don't be ridiculus. It doesn't have to be my alt to not be in support of badgering someone who plays poorly.

And despite being so unpopular at the tail end of this thread I reported the post that used FFLogs to disparage the OP, and it looks like the mods agreed with me and removed that post. So unlike everyone who disagreed with me, it turns out I was right - you can't use FFLogs to attack people on the forums.

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Nonsense...

Doing 0 damage is not just playing poorly it's abysmal. If you engage in group content at least pull your damn weight, don't be a deadbeat. Nobody expects to be perfect but that is far beyond playing poorly.

Let me guess you also engage in this type of gameplay? Sitting there, waiting for dmg to happen and when the dmg frequency is not enough, you come into the forums to cry about how boring healers are. It all makes sense..

pffft..

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Originally Posted by Kohashi

Nonsense...

Doing 0 damage is not just playing poorly it's abysmal. If you engage in group content at least pull your damn weight, don't be a deadbeat. Nobody expects to be perfect but that is far beyond playing poorly.

Let me guess you also engage in this type of gameplay? Sitting there, waiting for dmg to happen and when the dmg frequency is not enough, you come into the forums to cry about how boring healers are. It all makes sense..

pffft..

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I'm not arguing that she played well. I'm arguing you can't badger someone for playing bad. It's not hard to understand.

And no, I do not. I'd be bored. You are being ridiculous just because I don't agree with you. But much like being wrong about a loophole to use FFLogs to attack people on the forums, you can also be wrong to think it's my alt, and also be wrong that I never DPS as a healer. Have at it if it makes you feel better.

You can play well and have empathy for those who do not.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

I'm not arguing that she played well. I'm arguing you can't badger someone for playing bad. It's not hard to understand.

And no, I do not. I'd be bored. You are being ridiculous just because I don't agree with you. But much like being wrong about a loophole to use FFLogs to attack people on the forums, you can also be wrong to think it's my alt, and also be wrong that I never DPS as a healer. Have at it if it makes you feel better.

You can play well and have empathy for those who do not.

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You simply do not listen at all. You're actually part of the problem. You swirve around the issue over and over again and make your own pretend scenarios to make yourself look better. You're being really childish about this too. No one here, at any point in this thread has attacked or insulted or demeaned anyone for playing poorly. This is your own narrative that you have made up, if you would like to show any of us where we attacked people for not playing well you are free to do so, the issue is you cannot, because it doesn't exist. FFlogs at no point in this thread was used to harass anyone, it was used as evidence in the defence of the mentor mentioned in the OP.

The issue is not, never has been or will be with people playing poorly. The problem is the OP created a hate thread to discredit a group of players in the community whilst having no proof, and at the same time evidence did emerge or the OPs playstyle negating any credibility that they might have had and have the audacity to play the victim. This is a hate thread issue. You claim to be such a nice person with 'empathy' yet you are actively defending someone who is blatently trying to stir hate. There is no defence for this. You are wrong in this scenario yet again but by all means proceed to misread everyones comments and make up your own fictional story of what you think we are discussing here.

Wow the tale of two mentors. One who suggests people play well, and one who plays like garbage and then whines on the forum. Just take the crown off Karen. You're embarrassing yourself.

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Originally Posted by Bitmoar

Wow the tale of two mentors. One who suggests people play well, and one who plays like garbage and then whines on the forum. Just take the crown off Karen. You're embarrassing yourself.

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She's not actually a Mentor, she's a crafting mentor. She only has 1 Job at 100. Scholar which by extension also gives Summoner. So her post has even less credibility. It's a bait thread looking for people to defend them and their toxic attitude.

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Originally Posted by Asako

You simply do not listen at all. You're actually part of the problem. You swirve around the issue over and over again and make your own pretend scenarios to make yourself look better. You're being really childish about this too. No one here, at any point in this thread has attacked or insulted or demeaned anyone for playing poorly. This is your own narrative that you have made up, if you would like to show any of us where we attacked people for not playing well you are free to do so, the issue is you cannot, because it doesn't exist. FFlogs at no point in this thread was used to harass anyone, it was used as evidence in the defence of the mentor mentioned in the OP.

The issue is not, never has been or will be with people playing poorly. The problem is the OP created a hate thread to discredit a group of players in the community whilst having no proof, and at the same time evidence did emerge or the OPs playstyle negating any credibility that they might have had and have the audacity to play the victim. This is a hate thread issue. You claim to be such a nice person with 'empathy' yet you are actively defending someone who is blatently trying to stir hate. There is no defence for this. You are wrong in this scenario yet again but by all means proceed to misread everyones comments and make up your own fictional story of what you think we are discussing here.

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The other mentor wasn’t even named and no one even knows who it is. It was a venting thread, not a hate thread. That you even have the mentality to elevate this venting to hate makes me laugh. The Op did not claim all mentors were bad people. You seem to lack some level of reading comprehension and are hypocritically arguing against something she never said as you claim I do.

The very second post claimed she had a red flag for her gameplay: casting a heal spell in a dungeon. The whole point of going to FFlogs was to discredit her for saying she isn’t a heal bot. A post I’ll remind you again I reported and the mods removed because you were incorrect that you can use FFlogs here against another player. The logs show nothing about the attitude and behavior of this other unnamed mentor so they aren’t even relevant to what she’s complaining about. Even if the other mentor was justified in being annoyed, it doesn’t justify them badgering her and treating her poorly.

Your repeated attempts to belittle me, which did not go unnoticed though I held my tongue, now fall on death ears. Blocked.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

I'm not arguing that she played well. I'm arguing you can't badger someone for playing bad. It's not hard to understand.

And no, I do not. I'd be bored. You are being ridiculous just because I don't agree with you. But much like being wrong about a loophole to use FFLogs to attack people on the forums, you can also be wrong to think it's my alt, and also be wrong that I never DPS as a healer. Have at it if it makes you feel better.

You can play well and have empathy for those who do not.

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You are on something again, aren't you?

I didn't have to look at FFlogs to know she smelled like a healing bot, look at my original comment.

If Toxic Positivity had to put a picture next to it, you'd make a great candidate for it. People should be held accountable for their actions there is nothing more than that, especially when trying to stir up shit for no reason.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

The very second post claimed she had a red flag for her gameplay

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The red flag for her gameplay was the fact someone in the duty felt the need to comment on it. Everything else followed from that. You're really grasping at straws here. The simple fact is that OP was clearly being disingenuous, regardless of how the information was obtained, those are the facts. Stop defending OP.

According to lalachievements, OP does not have the Unicorn, Amaro or Outrunner mount, so I'm a little confused here. Unless they are saying they are a crafting mentor?

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Originally Posted by GeneralPraying

According to lalachievements, OP does not have the Unicorn, Amaro or Outrunner mount, so I'm a little confused here. Unless they are saying they are a crafting mentor?

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You can get get a Mentor without any of those being completely fair, you only need 3 Jobs at level 100 to qualify, and due to the SCH-SMN dichotomy, you only need to level two, SCH/SMN, and a Tank, to qualify for the Role Quests.

No, the bigger red flag is that you can look OP's Lodestone page and see that they don't have a single Tank at 80 or higher, meaning they can't qualify at all for Battle Mentor at all.

Why do some of you take feedback so poorly? If you're at level 100 and still have no idea how your job works, you need to hear it. It isn't "badgering", it's helpful information.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

If a run's going smoothly and we're moving along without noticeably long pauses, then I'm not going to care if the healer is dpsing or not. The dps are obviously doing their jobs. If someone in that situation was harping on dps and was typing more than fighting, they're probably the one I'd get annoyed with. A dungeon really isn't the time or place for extensive instruction. I've seen some mentors try to do that when the rest of us are just trying to get through the run, so there are some mentors who do need to pick their timing better.

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Healer DPS is mitigation. The faster the enemies die the less healing needs to be done. Not to mention the stun that Holy provides.

Also a bunch of the posts in this thread talk about tanks "almost dying" and "losing a bunch of hp", but none of them actually say their tanks died. Losing hp is normal. It's what tanks do.