What are your thoughts on 2.0's summoning system?

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Originally Posted by EdenArchangel

As long as the summoner job with its own dynamic and versatile avatars comes out, I could care less about the one-use open world summons.

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^^ This. The Free Company summons will be around for those who like to directly compete with others and have those bragging rights. I'm not going to put a ton of time or effort into obtaining them unless my Company really wants to.

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Originally Posted by Mijin

One of the potential uses for a summon I came up with is that they might be used to take down HNMs that would be otherwise nearly impossible to defeat without them. Which means, everyone would compete with other groups to get the primal, spend a bunch of time doing stuff in order to summon it, and then use it to try to kill a HNM... While everyone else waits approximately two weeks for it to be used so they can get another chance. I don't really like this idea.

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I really don't think it will be used for anything like this. This would actively exclude a large number of people from doing content. The point of creating content is to give us something to do, it's counterproductive to create something that only a small few can take part in.

I like yoshi-p's idea, I think it's original and makes sense. However, I still think that summoners SHOULD still have their own avatars (the more the merrier:)) aside from the big guys.

Now about the primal summoning system, I really really really really REALLY hope that they can't be camped. And there should be many things to avoid this:
1) Each primal spawns in 10+ locations and changes his location every couple of hours.
2) The location in which a primal spawns should require parties of 4+ to enter. (dungeons, etc.. Otherwise free companies will split their members to the primal spawning spots and camp)
3) Free companies can't acquire more than one primal at any one time, and there's a timer after the primal is summoned.

I don't think "finding" the primals should require talent/ team work/ cooperation, because after a couple of months people will figure out a way to easy mode their way to a certain primal and acquire it repeatedly. But of course fighting against them to be able to summon them should require all of them (talent/ team work/ cooperation between the free company members).

When you come across a primal it should be like "OMFG IFRIT IS HERE!!", rather than "Hey I'll go find ifrit whose coming? :/"

Yoshi-p please please please please please please please do not make camping primals possible... :(

Over all I find this a bad idea. Reason being it seem that yoshi is taking FFXIV away from how it was originally made. FFXIV is going in the wrong direction and hopefully other players see that. Now this is SE and we already know how SE is they tend to break things and never fix them or even bother trying to fix them so at this point in time I give Yoshi an F, and that is coming not only from his interviews but to what I see in game as well as what he is currently say.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

I really don't think it will be used for anything like this. This would actively exclude a large number of people from doing content. The point of creating content is to give us something to do, it's counterproductive to create something that only a small few can take part in.

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I think the mentality is that Yoshi P. believes that the competition or the hunt is part of the content not just utilizing the Primal.

In this theory obtaining the use of a Primal is like receiving Armor from a dungeon. The armor is the reward and the dungeon itself is the content that gets you the reward.

With this idea in mind everyone would still be participating in the content but not everyone would reap the rewards. Just like people cannot share a piece of rare/ex armor.

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Originally Posted by Maxthunder

Over all I find this a bad idea. Reason being it seem that yoshi is taking FFXIV away from how it was originally made. FFXIV is going in the wrong direction and hopefully other players see that. Now this is SE and we already know how SE is they tend to break things and never fix them or even bother trying to fix them so at this point in time I give Yoshi an F, and that is coming not only from his interviews but to what I see in game as well as what he is currently say.

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Perhaps someone should make a: Do you want a Summoner which is similar to past FF and FFXI in FFXIV?
Simple answer: Yes or No

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Originally Posted by Eclipse

Perhaps someone should make a: Do you want a Summoner which is similar to past FF and FFXI in FFXIV?
Simple answer: Yes or No

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Let me say it another way and that is Yoshi is taking too much from other games and not enough from his companies past Final Fantasy series. Also I gave you my answer and my opinion, if you dont like it thats fine but I stand by it and just because others havent stated how they feel dosent mean I am the only 1 who has the same or close to same opinion. Now in the 1st sentence I should have said Final Fanatsy Series thats my error.

What would be the point in having summoners then? Since I'm hoping it becomes an available class/job in the future.

My ideal of a summoner class is one which requires assistance from his/her fellow adventurers, (Like Yuna and her crew), to defeat primals in an exciting and difficult battle in order for the summoner to obtain them. Perhaps you can make it difficult to obtain the summoner class itself as well. A level 50+ battle or some sort. This would indeed be a "special" class compared to the rest.

Perhaps there can be a limit on how long each summoner can hold on to a particular primal? To which they would have to defeat it again to access its power. Although, having to defeat the same primal again might become tedious but it could possibly solve the issue of seeing too many summoners out there walking around with their Ifrits.

I would say very long cool downs but that would punish people who change to the class itself when signing on or frequently switching jobs.

I think it's stupid, they should leave the summoning system like they did in XI. Start off with a lesser summon and fight primals to get them as summons, but make them like Ifrit extreme, so they're not to easy to obtain.

They should have left it as it was in FFXI, Summons have never been really all that important in the storyline for the majority of Final Fantasy's besides 4,9 and X. Besides the final fantasy summons and summoners are a staple of the franchise, they are if not the most famous, among the top 2 most famous series of summon monsters in the RPG Genre. To take them away from their class and replace them with some random monsters is horrible.

I hope they actually change summoners around a bit and give them more of an important role in the party.
Such as

Titan=Paladin
Carbuncle=white mage
Ifrit,Shiva,Ramuh,Leviathan=black mage
Garuda=Red mage

So lets a party needs a role filled and they see a summoner is seeking they could ask the summoner if they would be willing to feel that role.

And i would love to see avatars like Odin and Alexander be more of a relic weapon.

Say Odin=Dark Knight with Apocalypse and Alexander=Paladin with Excalibur of course these two would be just as hard to get as a relic weapon.

A lot of people are concerned about how this will effect summoner, as am I. However, my biggest concern isn't how this is going to screw up any potential summoner job, it's the point of this entire system.

Why would anyone go through all of this work to get a summon? That's what I'm worried about more than anything. There has to be some underlying purpose for this whole system, and I'm worried about how stupid its going to be.

Why are people going to go through all the effort to compete to claim/find the instance for a primal, and then do a what sounds like labor intensive activities to charge the "gauge"? Like I mentioned in the OP I can only think of a few possible outcomes and they're all pretty bad.

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Originally Posted by sirxcalibur

I hope they actually change summoners around a bit and give them more of an important role in the party.
Such as
Titan=Paladin
Carbuncle=white mage
Ifrit,Shiva,Ramuh,Leviathan=black mage
Garuda=Red mage

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The interview with Yoshida pretty much confirms that wont be happening as the primals you mentioned will only be used by Free Companies/Linkshells under very unique conditions.

^^ No please no

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Originally Posted by Maxthunder

Let me say it another way and that is Yoshi is taking too much from other games and not enough from his companies past Final Fantasy series. Also I gave you my answer and my opinion, if you dont like it thats fine but I stand by it and just because others havent stated how they feel dosent mean I am the only 1 who has the same or close to same opinion. Now in the 1st sentence I should have said Final Fanatsy Series thats my error.

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I understood what you said, I was simply trying to express that I feel much of the forums agree with you and that a survey may catch their attention. However I also know that there are plenty of trolls out there which can really put someone off to try to express something so clearly. I don't understand why you have taken my statement negatively perhaps you do not feel that the forums would share this idea. I also believe that having such a cut and dry question requesting a cut and dry answer may help spur a response or a look from the Dev. Team. One can hope.

I have only played a few of the FF series and I can tell you I never thought the Primals or Avatars were dummed down or any less beautiful or fantastic as they are in any other story.

I also felt like allowing a player to take part in making a Blood Pact with a Primal or Avatar really made that class special. I also thought being able to call your summon was something special, adding a dynamic to game play, like "Common Carby, lets go on a walk!" It didn't dumb them down it displayed a bond of affection between you and that Avatar.

Think about it Yoshi P.! This is a Final Fantasy, don't stray too far from the path!

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Originally Posted by XxOstiaxX

Horrible idea, there is not one FF where summoning was hard to Obtain. This notion that they have been cheapened must come from XIII where the summons where godammed transformers and silly stuff like that <.<

Also Garuda is not a goddammed summon, it never was, replace it with alexander or quetzacol and where is shiva ?

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You do realize all of the summons we have now had to be introduced at one point in time and all didn't exist from the start, right? Quezacotl appeared in 2 games, just like Garuda, so that pretty much puts him in Garuda territory as "not being a summon" -- Shiva doesn't exist in the terrain we have now so there's your answer.

Also, Quezacotl took the place of Ramuh in FFVIII much like Ixion took the place of Ramuh in FFX.

IDK about this one... personally i'd like to see summons the way the were in ffxi but maybe have bigger versions roaming... or other bad ass uber ones roaming... i think the summoner class should have access to the basic summons like ifrit or shiva... 5 or 6 really isn't a big deal to give the class... roaming summons seem like a cool idea as well but also a bit lazy like they don't want to add to many summons because its time consuming or something like that... then have cool ones roam like odin and alexander, there are soooo many summons in the world of final fantasy that they should be able to do this.

ps. basically, no one is going to play a summon class that does not summon.

Its nothing to get paranoid about in my opinion. I actually like the fact that they want to preserve the primals awesome power with this method.

This is why I'm not worried.
For Grand Company summons. I'm confident that we'll have a few Primal deities,
Ifrit, Shiva, Leviathan, Garuda, Titan, and Ramuh.

Elder Primals:
Alexander, Odin, Bahamut

other summons:
Fenrir, Carby, Typhoon, Diabolos, Quezacotl, Belias, Cerberus, kjata etc etc

WHy cant we just have those primals be obtained the way yoshi wants and give us a job that summons lesser guys like carbuncle
golem, even shiva and ramuh. Who's to say they will be primals? Fenrir and typhoon? Idk but... Thought this was already talked about already

Terrible...terrible idea...interesting concept...bad for summons

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

You do realize all of the summons we have now had to be introduced at one point in time and all didn't exist from the start, right? Quezacotl appeared in 2 games, just like Garuda, so that pretty much puts him in Garuda territory as "not being a summon" -- Shiva doesn't exist in the terrain we have now so there's your answer.

Also, Quezacotl took the place of Ramuh in FFVIII much like Ixion took the place of Ramuh in FFX.

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Ramuh >>>> Gardua, Ixion & Quetzacotl. I want the original summons back, i dont want none of those half assed summons that where introduced later on, Tho! The ones from XII do look badass <.<

And bring SHIVA BACK!

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Originally Posted by XxOstiaxX

Ramuh >>>> Gardua, Ixion & Quetzacotl. I want the original summons back, i dont want none of those half assed summons that where introduced later on, Tho! The ones from XII do look badass <.<

And bring SHIVA BACK!

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IIRC he used Shiva as an example for the horrible new primal system.

Edit: Yeah he did:

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So one Ifrit, maybe one Shiva maybe one Ramuh, per world.

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I don't know what he is talking about with the 'recent cheapening' of Summons. He's right, they are an FF staple but they were obtainable from the original uses. Odin has been in several games and once you obtained the Odin esper/ materia etc you had Odin.

If they want to make certain Primals exclusive to this system I don't have a problem with that but I'd also like to see certain Summons that you build points toward and when you have enough you can use them to call a summon. A summoning Esper that is built to become a one use consumable. I'd also like to see all Summons add a cut scene to our room library once it is activated.

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Originally Posted by Ksenia

I don't know what he is talking about with the 'recent cheapening' of Summons. He's right, they are an FF staple but they were obtainable from the original uses. Odin has been in several games and once you obtained the Odin esper/ materia etc you had Odin.

If they want to make certain Primals exclusive to this system I don't have a problem with that but I'd also like to see certain Summons that you build points toward and when you have enough you can use them to call a summon. A summoning Esper that is built to become a one use consumable. I'd also like to see all Summons add a cut scene to our room library once it is activated.

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I think people misunderstand (due to translation possibly) what "Too easy to obtain" is referring to.

Yoshi is speaking of it in a global FF sense.

In virtually every single player FF games. Summons were rare and difficult to obtain by the general population of that WORLD.

Think back on any FF game (sans 11). Other than the party of heroes. How often did you see anyone else with summoning magic?

Goblez, and the residents of Mist in FFIV had it, Kefka could summon FFVI (using Magicite), Seymour and several others could in FFX.. We knew the residents of Replito in FFIII could use it.

Notice something?

I each respective FF world, the only NPCs who could use summoning magic fell into two categories: 1) Main Villains or 2) Small hidden communities dedicated exclusively to studying it. Bottom line, summoning magic was pretty rare to have for your average inhabitant of a FF world.

Now, of those... How many did you ever see summon Ifrit? How about Leviathan, or Shiva?

Not only was summoning magic rare, but the the iconic FF summons (Primals) were exclusive to one party in the world, the player's party.

When Yoshi-P is talking about Summoning magic being too common and everyone with their own Ifrit walking around he is speaking directly about FFXI.

His plan is to retain the uniqueness and power of the Iconic FF summons, by restricting them to one per world in FFXIV. And that fits well with the FF tradition.

I think Fenrir should not be a lesser primal.

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

I think people misunderstand (due to translation possibly) what "Too easy to obtain" is referring to.

Yoshi is speaking of it in a global FF sense.

In virtually every single player FF games. Summons were rare and difficult to obtain by the general population of that WORLD.

Think back on any FF game (sans 11). Other than the party of heroes. How often did you see anyone else with summoning magic?

Goblez, and the residents of Mist in FFIV had it, Kefka could summon FFVI (using Magicite), Seymour and several others could in FFX.. We knew the residents of Replito in FFIII could use it.

Notice something?

I each respective FF world, the only NPCs who could use summoning magic fell into two categories: 1) Main Villains or 2) Small hidden communities dedicated exclusively to studying it. Bottom line, summoning magic was pretty rare to have for your average inhabitant of a FF world.

Now, of those... How many did you ever see summon Ifrit? How about Leviathan, or Shiva?

Not only was summoning magic rare, but the the iconic FF summons (Primals) were exclusive to one party in the world, the player's party.

When Yoshi-P is talking about Summoning magic being too common and everyone with their own Ifrit walking around he is speaking directly about FFXI.

His plan is to retain the uniqueness and power of the Iconic FF summons, by restricting them to one per world in FFXIV. And that fits well with the FF tradition.

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Maybe I am misunderstanding you...but in nearly all the FF's party members could summon summons. Rydia, Yuna, in FF7 and 8 the whole PT, in FF12 you could summon it and become to summon. In FF6 you could summon stuff on any character also. The summons weren't that hard to obtain ^^; In FF12 though they were...haha the fights were a pain but a lot of fun!

I don't like the whole "one shot" anything either, that is kind of silly and takes the fun out of bosses and stuff. Is it really worth it to use in PVP too? It would be funny I guess lol but nothing that epic.

FFXI I think they did a good job, at first anyway. They really used to make you work for the avatars...there was only a very small amount of us summoners in 2003 - 2005. I wrote a guide on it back in the day at gamefaqs :o But then when they made it easier and everyone and their mom leveled it for the wyrms...yeah that is when it felt like it lost its novelty.

I really hope he does add summoner job...I know a lot of people are expecting it and if it does not come out I also will leave...I been waiting for it ._.

people want the FF summoner but that one doesn't work in MMO because either
A- they mean offline FF games where summoner call whatever avatar and everyone else watch the attack cutscene for 2 minutes.
B- they mean FFXI summoner which was more or less broken job.

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Originally Posted by Babydoll

Maybe I am misunderstanding you...but in nearly all the FF's party members could summon summons. Rydia, Yuna, in FF7 and 8 the whole PT, in FF12 you could summon it and become to summon. In FF6 you could summon stuff on any character also. The summons weren't that hard to obtain ^^; In FF12 though they were...haha the fights were a pain but a lot of fun!

I don't like the whole "one shot" anything either, that is kind of silly and takes the fun out of bosses and stuff. Is it really worth it to use in PVP too? It would be funny I guess lol but nothing that epic.

FFXI I think they did a good job, at first anyway. They really used to make you work for the avatars...there was only a very small amount of us summoners in 2003 - 2005. I wrote a guide on it back in the day at gamefaqs :o But then when they made it easier and everyone and their mom leveled it for the wyrms...yeah that is when it felt like it lost its novelty.

I really hope he does add summoner job...I know a lot of people are expecting it and if it does not come out I also will leave...I been waiting for it ._.

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The point Yoshi was making is that the summons were rare because there was only one (Ifrit) in every FF world and it was exclusive to the player-controlled party.

FFXI broke this with every Summoner walking around with their own Ifrit. (ie, there were many 'Ifrits' in FFXI) -- and even though the lore kind of explained it, the overall feeling was that the power of Ifrit was diminished by turning him into a breed of pet for people.

Yoshi wants there to be only one Ifrit, and he wants him to be very powerful.

Other lesser summons like Carbuncle and Cait Sith could replicate themselves and be used for a SMN job in this game, but for the big summons, there will be only one version at any given point.

So, no one is going to say 'Summons are not for everyone'?

Because, this idea is sounding like that thing where people with more time to camp the servers primals are going to have them all the time...

More likely than not, the main summons such as Ifrit will be exclusive, while the SMN job gets weaker, mini primals (perhaps zodiacs, maybe all new beasts?)

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Originally Posted by Babydoll

in nearly all the FF's party members could summon summons.

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Yes, it is true that any individual party member could summon, but in each game there was only one of whatever spiritual entity the summoner was calling forth. What I mean is that there was only one spiritual entity named Ifrit, there was only one Shiva, there was only one Fenrir (and there can be only one Highlander!), and so on.

By making it so that each spirit can only be utilized by one group (or individual) at a time means the integrity of the mythos in FFXIV will be strengthened.

I can't speak for how things were in FFXI, but from the descriptions people are giving of the summoner class in that game, it sounds like everyone who had the job unlocked and took the time to level it up got the same avatar/pets. To me not only does this cheapen the jobs abilities it undermines the integrity of the mythos. Why? Because Having multiple "Ifrit spirits" flying around contradicts the fact that the story indicates that Ifrit is a singular entity.

Perhaps a compromise could be reached if instead of having the Primals as avatar/pets the summoner could summon Elemental Spirits to aid in combat and the Primals (or famous summons from FF's of the past) must be achieved by competitive means.

The role of a summoner is to call forth spiritual entities using rituals or ceramonial magic to aid in battle. Making it so that whichever group has fought and obtained the primal must work as a team to perform some type of "ritual" to boost the power of the spirit makes this more like an actual summon. And, if the "rituals" or tasks that are done to boost the power of the Primal must be lead by a Summoner class/job that would be even more awesome!

IMO this idea given in the OP souds very interesting.

Again we really will know nothing untill 2.0 is launched.

I would rather it be the summoner chooses a Greater Primal to beat and it becomes a summon for that primals Super attack, then it goes away and you cant resummon for 24 hrs or so. Can only have one primal at a time, and you would have to do something to switch which one you could summon. Other summons that you could have out all the time and they walk with you could be like Elementals, or summons like in the Tales games (they have cool names too)

I did like the ability to walk around with your own personal Ifrit tho.... Even tho it was weaker than Ifrit original. Tho I would chose Shiva.

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Originally Posted by Ehl

Yes, it is true that any individual party member could summon, but in each game there was only one of whatever spiritual entity the summoner was calling forth. What I mean is that there was only one spiritual entity named Ifrit, there was only one Shiva, there was only one Fenrir (and there can be only one Highlander!), and so on.

By making it so that each spirit can only be utilized by one group (or individual) at a time means the integrity of the mythos in FFXIV will be strengthened.

I can't speak for how things were in FFXI, but from the descriptions people are giving of the summoner class in that game, it sounds like everyone who had the job unlocked and took the time to level it up got the same avatar/pets. To me not only does this cheapen the jobs abilities it undermines the integrity of the mythos. Why? Because Having multiple "Ifrit spirits" flying around contradicts the fact that the story indicates that Ifrit is a singular entity.

Perhaps a compromise could be reached if instead of having the Primals as avatar/pets the summoner could summon Elemental Spirits to aid in combat and the Primals (or famous summons from FF's of the past) must be achieved by competitive means.

The role of a summoner is to call forth spiritual entities using rituals or ceramonial magic to aid in battle. Making it so that whichever group has fought and obtained the primal must work as a team to perform some type of "ritual" to boost the power of the spirit makes this more like an actual summon. And, if the "rituals" or tasks that are done to boost the power of the Primal must be lead by a Summoner class/job that would be even more awesome!

IMO this idea given in the OP souds very interesting.

Again we really will know nothing untill 2.0 is launched.

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In FFXI it was essentially the same - Your party members (like other FF games) could summon, however there's only a few storybased characters (like other FF games) who can actually summon the diety themselves, whom existed primarily during the Zilart era.

Basically there's only 1 person who actually succeeded in Summoning Fenrir in "modern times" which promptly ended up killing him. In FFXI you had to fight a copy of the god called Avatars, which basically means you're only seeing a copy of them, not the actual diety themselves -- There are a few who are actually awake but still only offer you a fraction of their power and there's some who aren't going to allow you to fully control them (Odin and Alexander.)

The thing most people forget is, Yoshida isn't talking specifically about FFXI and the copies as "cheapening", just the idea as the series went on Summoning has become pretty much a staple of the game when before they were just elaborate nukes, so it's not the copies, because every summoner and their grandma will be running around with a lesser summon, but they clearly have to have some importance unless SE goes the lazy route and just allow you to level into summoning them.

In XIV vs XI, XIV's primals aren't offering their power to anyone, thus summoners won't be able to summon even a copy of them, but Free Companies will be able to get a Card to allow one time summon of the god itself. In XI, they offer you their power in exchange if you beat them.

I hope they use this opportunity to add new original and interesting summons to my favorite series. I remember playing 7-10 my favorite part of final fantasy was and still is summoning. I remember playing 7 and summoning Ifrit for the first time and later summoning bahamut and then experiencing the new iterations in 8 wondering what Ifrit will look like and who would take ramuhs place. By ff9 I was so excited to see which summons would make it into the game and which would be new and which would be old. When ff10 came out I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw ixion in place of ramuh and valefor was too cool.

Please dev team take this chance to show the world your creativity and add a new summon or two to the ff series that will be remembered and talked about for generations to come.

(sorry for any errors. on my iPhone at work) :p

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Originally Posted by Reika

I would rather it be the summoner chooses a Greater Primal to beat and it becomes a summon for that primals Super attack, then it goes away and you cant resummon for 24 hrs or so. Can only have one primal at a time, and you would have to do something to switch which one you could summon. Other summons that you could have out all the time and they walk with you could be like Elementals, or summons like in the Tales games (they have cool names too).

I did like the ability to walk around with your own personal Ifrit tho.... Even tho it was weaker than Ifrit original. Tho I would chose Shiva.

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I like that idea as well. Give summoner a job with mini summons like Carbuncle.
And yes allow us to walk around with our mini summons.

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

The point Yoshi was making is that the summons were rare because there was only one (Ifrit) in every FF world and it was exclusive to the player-controlled party.

FFXI broke this with every Summoner walking around with their own Ifrit. (ie, there were many 'Ifrits' in FFXI) -- and even though the lore kind of explained it, the overall feeling was that the power of Ifrit was diminished by turning him into a breed of pet for people.

Yoshi wants there to be only one Ifrit, and he wants him to be very powerful.

Other lesser summons like Carbuncle and Cait Sith could replicate themselves and be used for a SMN job in this game, but for the big summons, there will be only one version at any given point.

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There where multiple versions of the same summon in VI, the ifrit esper that your party encounters is not the only ifrit in existance in that game, same for shiva and everybody else, atleast on that game, Espers(summons) where more of a clan/race than an individual. As far as XIV i would really like to see the classic summons being part of the summoner class, for that is what has made the summoner class so iconic, i really don see the logic in "Sorry but you know that class that really is above and beyond every other similar class in MMO'S ? as an iconic and really well lored versed class ? yeah we gonna scrap that and just give you random animals as summons"

I pretty much agree with Zantetsuken, I get the same feeling from Yoshi-P's comments that he wants to keep the God style summons as God like power.

Part of the issue is game balance. If you make Ifrit a summon, do you weaken him so much plus have every summoner have a version that you now use ifrit when you need fire damage and he "sycks" for anything else? Thats hardly paying homage to FF's Major summons.

Do you make Ifrit a 1 time summon with a huge cooldown so its like Dragon fire dive, how many 15-30 min cool downs would the Summoner class/job want? Cause if you had 7-10 One time major summons the cooldown would be huge to keep folks from cycling through them and doing absurd damage.

As far as a Summoner class goes, beside my personal opinion in favor of Yoshi's idea, i think it gives them the freedom to do something original with the Summoner class mechanics since they won't have the spector of the Major summons hanging over their head. We as players probably have less immoveable expectations from an Ixion summon then an Ifrit summon.

Mini Spoiler Below:

Another part is we've been exposed to an Ifrit and Garuda and their current strength already. Lore wise we've seen multiple beastmen summon Ifrit. (and they worship him.) Even though Lore can be used to explain most anything in context of a world, there is something to be said for maintaining a measure of consistancy. Even if my Free company isn't interested, when i'm out running around and i see the sky on fire that will be pretty cool.

I prefer Ifrit to be big, bad and dealy, as opposed to leashed to my side, no matter the lore explaination.

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

The point Yoshi was making is that the summons were rare because there was only one (Ifrit) in every FF world and it was exclusive to the player-controlled party.

FFXI broke this with every Summoner walking around with their own Ifrit. (ie, there were many 'Ifrits' in FFXI) -- and even though the lore kind of explained it, the overall feeling was that the power of Ifrit was diminished by turning him into a breed of pet for people.

Yoshi wants there to be only one Ifrit, and he wants him to be very powerful.

Other lesser summons like Carbuncle and Cait Sith could replicate themselves and be used for a SMN job in this game, but for the big summons, there will be only one version at any given point.

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I figured out the general idea of what you were saying.

An Ifrit Materia or Esper could be used to summon the essence or the effect of Ifrit but to summon him it is to be expected that you can only do it once at any given time. It gives primal's a life of their own when they are treated as autonomous beings and not elements.

The Summoner should really be called a Channeler as they channel Ifrit like power rather than summon.

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Originally Posted by Ksenia

I figured out the general idea of what you were saying.

An Ifrit Materia or Esper could be used to summon the essence or the effect of Ifrit but to summon him it is to be expected that you can only do it once at any given time. It gives primal's a life of their own when they are treated as autonomous beings and not elements.

The Summoner should really be called a Channeler as they channel Ifrit like power rather than summon.

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I suppose your last sentance is really the question, if we define it like that then FF11, from what i understand, would be a Channeler. So going by those definitions, do we prefer a Channeler or a Summoner for FF14?

Personally, i'd rather have a Summoner, working in the bounds of what Yoshi-P has planned as far as we know, would cost us the big name summons. I'm fine with that.

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Originally Posted by Viritess

I suppose your last sentance is really the question, if we define it like that then FF11, from what i understand, would be a Channeler. So going by those definitions, do we prefer a Channeler or a Summoner for FF14?

Personally, i'd rather have a Summoner, working in the bounds of what Yoshi-P has planned as far as we know, would cost us the big name summons. I'm fine with that.

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How about Channeler (Class) Summoner (Job). Channeler can use the mini-powers of the aeons and such as well as using elementals while Summoner can actually summon the aeons for the big godly burst of destruction as well as being able to summon slightly stronger versions of the elementals? I think that would be awesome.

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Originally Posted by Dubont

How about Channeler (Class) Summoner (Job). Channeler can use the mini-powers of the aeons and such as well as using elementals while Summoner can actually summon the aeons for the big godly burst of destruction as well as being able to summon slightly stronger versions of the elementals? I think that would be awesome.

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Not a bad idea really. Gives ya some options atleast. Though i'm personally not a fan of having pet versions of Ifrit and such, atleast the discussion is going in a creative direction ^^

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Originally Posted by Viritess

Not a bad idea really. Gives ya some options atleast. Though i'm personally not a fan of having pet versions of Ifrit and such, atleast the discussion is going in a creative direction ^^

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Totally. I wasn't thinking of a pet version though. I was thinking more along the lines of what Yoshi is thinking with the whole summon them once for a big deal then they're gone until you get them again lol. As for the mini-powers, the channeler could use a materia like ability to use a lower power verison of the aeon's ability.