Physical Ranged (Also SMN) "Freedom of Movement" Tax

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xieldras

That's really what it comes down to doesn't it? Everyone has support options now that are equal or greater than the "Support" role, even if their damage is good. The support rDPS offers isn't even that unique to them anymore because another role has a variation of it (which is typically a 45/90/120s buff or 10% debuff).

But the devs haven't taken the time to properly adjust the numbers with the same philosophy they reserve for this role, so we're the only ones to suffer.

---

It doesn't even concern rphys exclusively, fact of the matter is that every role has started bleeding over into the other roles identities over time, and one of the big current hot debates is healers vs tanks on healing tools. When it comes to rphys, it leaves us without identity combined with the loss of resource management gameplay, but that's nothing unique although I do agree that's a problem of homogenization of roles (on top of job homogenization).

Here in the case of the ranged tax it's more a problem of balance regarding job constraints I feel, which is outdated and flawed to the core in my opinion.

I started playing in ShB and this is the first time I've stopped playing mch for content. I really tried to improve to avoid the "hur dur phys. ranged tax, mch is a bad class" but it got to the point where playing machinist is griefing, and I'll have to also start locking them out of duties because the class is not viable compared to other jobs.

Honestly... fuck the balance team. Players may optimize the fun out of the game, but the balance team and their dumb rules regarding roles are taking the fun out of playing a job. I'm not gonna spend a third expansion being shit talked for trying to play a class that I found fun but required to let other shit talk me just for playing it. I got job locked out of Eden's Promise, I got job locked out of Abyssos, don't worry this time I'll lock myself out to spare the tomestones and time wasted on a class that will get me locked out. Fuck 'em

Machinist should do melee levels of damage, drop it's utility and make it selfish. All other DPS roles have a selfish high damage job, machinist can be the Phys range one. It will always be behind casters and the other Phys range in utility so just make it the samurai of Phys range.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ramiee

Machinist should do melee levels of damage, drop it's utility and make it selfish. All other DPS roles have a selfish high damage job, machinist can be the Phys range one. It will always be behind casters and the other Phys range in utility so just make it the samurai of Phys range.

---

I don't think many people consider MCH not a "selfish DPS", its utility is more than very limited... who ever said "hey let's bring a MCH for dismantle"... Tactician is just another role action (proof: Effect cannot be stacked with bard's Troubadour or dancer's Shield Samba.)
Even if MCH is not competing with melees, it should be at least competitive against the other Physical ranged jobs and while some people say it is, MCH is usually last at 75+ parse.

It currently sits just above DNC which is dead last so yes at p75+, it is competitive within its own role. It was dead last and actually not even competing in the last part of EW though, which was very sad especially for the end of an expansion that's supposed to be smoother on balance.

Once again Melee DPS get paragraphs of changes to catch up to Pictomancer while Physical Ranged get practically nothing, only widening the gap. This is absolutely dreadful balancing.

I'm surprised that Machinist isn't like Samurai being very greedy into damage trying to pump out as damage much as possible. Its damage needs to be buffed far more.

BRD's personal damage is abysmal. It needs buffs.

I too agree that bards personal damage is absolutely underwhelming and needs to be addressed. We do not contribute enough to the rest of the party to justify the vast discrepancies between our personal DPS and that of other DPS jobs. I was under the impression BRD was supposed to get a bit of an overhaul and boost come 7.0 but it doesn't look like it happened at all.

Actually I just went back through the patch notes and there has been ZERO increases to Bards since 7.0

The irony is that it still manages to be faring slightly better than MCH/DNC.

What a role.

Buffs do tend to scale better than pure dps, especially if you kneecap said dps. That gap will just widen further on the next tier. Dancer's problem though is it only makes one person awesome for a majority of the fight while every 2 minutes the party becomes awesome. Bard just does it all the time, even if the buffs are tiny. 1% damage, 2% crit, 3% direct hit rate...Sure, small, but you're hitting the party with them. It was the same argument ast had with royal road back in the day, expanded card vs enhanced card.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CrystalAurora

Once again Melee DPS get paragraphs of changes to catch up to Pictomancer while Physical Ranged get practically nothing, only widening the gap. This is absolutely dreadful balancing.

---

Now best MCH parse in the world has same dps with 60ish parse of any melee. Aren't we all dps jobs?

Trying playing a BRD, the damage is even worse then MCH... Phys Ranged has been completely ignored. Everyone who was already higher then us got buffs while we got zero buffs and continue to decline.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brigog

Trying playing a BRD, the damage is even worse then MCH... Phys Ranged has been completely ignored. Everyone who was already higher then us got buffs while we got zero buffs and continue to decline.

---

Isn’t Bard supposed to be worse than Machinist anyway? The buffs to other players were a buff to Dancer and Bard I thought, because it means more rDPS from songs/dance partner/etc. Naturally that doesn’t affect Machinist though which I guess devs forgot existed again lol.

Steaming hot take but I’d still happily play Bard even if it was literal healer-level dps as long as it had fun/interesting ways to support the party and not just some passive raid buffs. Instead it gets Nature’s Minne (which requires healers to know what they’re doing / being alive lol), Warden’s Paean ( lol Esuna on cool-down ), Troubadour which is a literal role skill wearing a moustache (“how do you do fellow abilities?”).

Like, we’re literally the only support-focused job left in the game that is completely incapable of healing anyone. Red Mage, Summoner, Dancer, Pictomancer, Monk, Reaper, all get access to actual healing. Yet Bard the supposed ‘supporter’ gets to play a sad song and cry into their flute with their crappy personal dps. “Oh but it’s higher than Dancer!” Wow, thanks so much Yoshi-P, now the job is fun again.

Ranting aside plz Yoshi-P phys ranged needs help

all the bottom 5 jobs (physical ranged, rdm and smn) need buffs. period


Is SMN/RDM having 3k dps lower than picto/blm healthy? Does anyone feel like having a pct give you a better chance of getting a clear, especially in PF?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ayden

all the bottom 5 jobs (physical ranged, rdm and smn) need buffs. period


Is SMN/RDM having 3k dps lower than picto/blm healthy? Does anyone feel like having a pct give you a better chance of getting a clear, especially in PF?

---

Last night, I finally cleared m1s after hours upon hours of trying. The party came together pretty well and eventually stopped dying, but we kept hitting enrage. "Damn, the dps check is pretty tight" someone said.
Eventually, after the nearest perfect run, we finally clear. 3AM.

The day after, I decide to load in to that website to find the clear has, in fact, been uploaded.
The pictomancer scored 9.
The samurai scored 21.
The ninja scored 18.

I, a Red Mage, scored 82 with 21.7k dps.
Now let's say I scored ~75 as a Pictomancer, it would be about 22.9. A difference of 72k per minute, and enrage is almost exactly at 10 minutes in.
Would that 3.1% enrage have been the kill? No. Black Cat has about 76 million HP, and that's a difference of 720000 damage. Even if I highballed it due to the differences in the points, I'd still hit that same wall.

when considering ndps however, I get to compare against Black Mage, since that helps alleviate underperforming party members. There, I scored 89.
Comparing this to a 90 BLM 23.8, so lets drop it to 23.7k just to be fair, and now we have a difference of 120k per minute, or 1.2 million over the entire fight.

Of course, this would still not be enough, as we were missing ~2.4m damage total, but at this point it's starting to get noticeable just how much the job choice mattered. It's over 1% health that I lost due to job choice in an encounter in which my job pick didn't influence anything else. If I had raised anyone, it would not have been enough. Of course, this is considering the other players weren't pulling their weight, but that's exactly what would happen if they had died so much that my choice of job would actually come into play (chain raising things the healers can no longer pick up)

Therein lies the Red Mage problem, where parties that would need it prefer you to be stronger jobs to carry harder, whereas parties that wouldn't need you prefer stronger jobs because, well, your niche is useless to them!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ayden

all the bottom 5 jobs (physical ranged, rdm and smn) need buffs. period


Is SMN/RDM having 3k dps lower than picto/blm healthy? Does anyone feel like having a pct give you a better chance of getting a clear, especially in PF?

---

after the prog phases yes obviously more DPS = an increased chance of clear, and the difference in DPS between Melee/picto/blm and everything else is much too significant they should reduce it.