Scholar's Identity Transformation

Personally would have preferred if they doubled down on the tactician/military aspect of scholar. I loved the scholar job quests. Feels like we're moving closer and closer to white mage. That said, I don't hate the transformation, and I'm excited for scholar overall.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OgruMogru

Sch could go into tonberry form to communicate that they've taken on corruption/damage taken by their team mates and then expunge it from themselves to heal the party - like a real world sin-eater would do at funeral. their old poison/dot centric kit fits with the theme of purging sickness as opposed to seraph-form's "office receptionist christmas party fancy dress."

---

...I'm okay with this. But yeah, I'd much rather have a fairy or even tonberry transformation than an angel.

Or hell, give us something themed around another healer/barrier entity in the Final Fantasy franchise if they insist on doing something "different". Surely there's another summon/esper that hasn't been assigned elsewhere yet? Kirin? Unicorn? Golem? Zona Seeker?
...Alexander?

Bumping this thread

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Miralyth

Repeating my thoughts from another thread about this that fell off a few days ago, since feedback seems to be piling up in this one:

Scholar is a fairy job, and I love it for that. I am not interested in, and would very much prefer not to have, angel theming. To be clear, I don't mind the transformation aspect, but I would like it to be distinctly about Il Mheg-type (i.e. fairy) aesthetics, for example, and not something that is trending toward sin eater.

---

Pretty much where I'm at. The seraph was always kinda weird and I really don't like the sch dipping into more angelic theming. If I were going to give sch a transformation it would be some kind of military general get up with fae wings bolted on. Call it borrowed power from Feo Ul or whatever. Would at least be more on brand.

Why are people asking for a tonberry tranformation? tonberries are diseased and cant use magic so how would that empower the scholar? Some people dont understand scholars lore at all. Seraph is an angel and seraphism turns the caster into an angel. This is not a surprise because we've had seraph ever since the lb3 system was introduced. Seraph is not a fairy, she is an ANGEL! I can understand the people who do not like the transformation but the people that are saying it does not fit scholars aesthetic need to read the lore book and rewatch the job quests. If scholar did get a fairy transformation, it would be way weaker than the angel form.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Emmacleas

Why are people asking for a tonberry tranformation? tonberries are diseased and cant use magic so how would that empower the scholar? Some people dont understand scholars lore at all. Seraph is an angel and seraphism turns the caster into an angel. This is not a surprise because we've had seraph ever since the lb3 system was introduced. Seraph is not a fairy, she is an ANGEL! I can understand the people who do not like the transformation but the people that are saying it does not fit scholars aesthetic need to read the lore book and rewatch the job quests. If scholar did get a fairy transformation, it would be way weaker than the angel form.

---

Seraph herself has absolutely no connection to SCH either so saying that a skill that has no relation to SCH’s aesthetic is relevant because it slightly connects to another skill that doesn’t fit SCH means nothing

The LB3 means nothing because there is no proof it’s actually seraph and not just any old fairy. The lore books state nothing on this

However let’s take the assumption that seraph is thematic and the LB3 is seraph, there is still an incredibly clear distinction between the fairy and the SCH, the fairy is fairy/angelic, the SCH is a tactician

No matter which way you slice seraph this skill doesn’t match SCH

I might even vote for a SCH LB3 rework where apparitions of previous scholars merge into the WoL then explodes with restorative magicks fully healing and reviving KO'ed allies.

Bottom-line, Seraph was forced. It's only now that people point it out when the egregiousness of transforming into an angelic figure when Seraphism was shown in the job trailer. SCH's should stick to the military strategist theme. The fairy is and will always be a tool to SCH. They are more than willing to remake a job from the ground up, I don't see them correcting the mistake of introducing angels to SCH.

seraph is lily, eos and selene combined

got any lore to prove that?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Emmacleas

seraph is lily, eos and selene combined

---

Lily is the fairy.... Eos and Selene are aspects of Lily. So your claim that Seraph is Lily, Eos and Selene, combined is faulty.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Seraph herself has absolutely no connection to SCH either so saying that a skill that has no relation to SCH’s aesthetic is relevant because it slightly connects to another skill that doesn’t fit SCH means nothing

The LB3 means nothing because there is no proof it’s actually seraph and not just any old fairy. The lore books state nothing on this

However let’s take the assumption that seraph is thematic and the LB3 is seraph, there is still an incredibly clear distinction between the fairy and the SCH, the fairy is fairy/angelic, the SCH is a tactician

No matter which way you slice seraph this skill doesn’t match SCH

---

Okay, and you think a tonberry transformation is better?

It would be great if you could answer me on this.. I am waiting.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Emmacleas

seraph is lily, eos and selene combined

---

got any lore to prove that?

Lily is the fairy.... Eos and Selene are aspects of Lily. So your claim that Seraph is Lily, Eos and Selene, combined is faulty.

I don’t necessarily have a problem with seraph being a big FAIRY that we just created by dumping a whole lot of aether into lily temporarily powering her up from a lore standpoint (even if rouse is better from a gameplay standpoint) because it still maintains the distinction that the fairy is the fairy and the SCH is the SCH. Seraph doesn’t really specifically give off any angel motifs except her name anyway

It’s wonky regardless but seraph at least doesn’t break the core foundation of SCH’s visual lore. Seraphism does and in the worst way possible because it’s only link to the kit is the skill that already has the most tenuous foundation to the rest of the kit

If SCH got something like temperance where it could be visually argued that it’s lily giving strength back to the SCH I personally would still have a problem with it but at least it could be lore justified. Seraphism takes the most tenuous skill, takes its most tenuous lore interpretation (that seraph is specifically an angel) then takes it to the absolute most extreme (traditional church angel motif). It just doesn’t fit

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Emmacleas

Okay, and you think a tonberry transformation is better?

---

That’s not the point I’m making at all, but in answer to this question no I don’t want a tonberry transformation either because it doesn’t make any more sense than seraphism does

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rawker

got any lore to prove that?



Lily is the fairy.... Eos and Selene are aspects of Lily. So your claim that Seraph is Lily, Eos and Selene, combined is faulty.

---

We have never seen lily, only eos and selene. It is common sense that seraph is selene and eos combined.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Emmacleas

We have never seen lily, only eos and selene. It is common sense that seraph is selene and eos combined.

---

Did you really tell us to go read the lore book then miss the foundational aspect of literally the first SCH quest in the game

Lily is the fairy, eos and Selene are aspects of her, seraph has no more foundation other than a vague “dump a lot of aether into her to generate a new form”

I am more open to this:

1. We can only summon Lily
2. We have cooldowns that changes Lily's aspect: Solar Aspect (Eos) and Lunar Aspect (Selene). These 2 separate buttons will be replaced depending on which aspect is pressed... So if I press Solar Aspect (Eos), Lily will flicker and changes visuals to reflect Eos then with magic of button replacement Solar will become Fey Blessing then Lunar becomes Fey Illumination... then if Lunar Aspect (Selene) is pressed, Lily will flicker and becomes Selene and then the buttons for will become... well.. whatever new abilities they can make.
3. Then Rouse powers up the Lily so her healing is more potent.

I'm getting 2nd hand embarrassment lmao.

i dont mind transformations, but it schouldnt look like white magic.... i probably would love a fairy transformation

In cutscene in job quest level 30 there's an echo vision of presumably lily, the third fairy - after being introduced to the other two it has a textbox that's labelled ??? and says "playername".

Then in the job quest "the beast within", at level 50:

Suritocarito:
Long has my mind been clouded with hatred. But by the resplendent light of Lily, at long last, I am free...

That the traditions of my people have not been lost to the ages is of great comfort to me.
I do not know how that soul crystal came into your possession, but I am glad that it did. For the sickness robbed me not only of my body, but of Lily as well.
The Soul of the Scholar no longer resonates with my aether. I cannot summon her─only you can. Only you are fit to wield the magicks now.
Here─a gown as befits a scholar of your standing. I bequeath it to you, along with the knowledge of Sacred Soil, my most versatile art.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Did you really tell us to go read the lore book then miss the foundational aspect of literally the first SCH quest in the game

Lily is the fairy, eos and Selene are aspects of her, seraph has no more foundation other than a vague “dump a lot of aether into her to generate a new form”

---

I know that Eos and selene are aspects of Lily.
Seraphism still makes sense tho. Scholars lb3 is literally called ANGEL feathers and it was in the game for years even before "summon seraph" existed.
Why are people acting shocked that scholar has an angel form? Did they expect seraph and the mage combined together to create a military suit? I am confused

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Asari5

i dont mind transformations, but it schouldnt look like white magic.... i probably would love a fairy transformation

---

Seraphism does not look like white magic!

If your basis and justification of Seraphism's transformation is an LB3 nomenclature, you are deeply mistaken. There was never any mention of Seraph being another aspect of Lily.

If anything, it was forced. Them discontinuing the job lore opened up the possibilities of just injecting what they see fit to the job without any form of explanation whatsoever. Ugh.. i really hated when they stopped the lore building of the jobs because this garbage happens.

Edit.. Before you mentioned that Lily, Eos, and Selene, when combined, is Seraph?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Emmacleas

seraph is lily, eos and selene combined

---

I asked if you could provide me some lore then why the sudden change of heart when you made this statement?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Emmacleas

I know that Eos and selene are aspects of Lily....

---

Please. I am waiting for your explanation how on earth does Angel Feathers makes perfect sense with the SCH transforming to an angel other than the LB3 being called as such. I would understand summoning Seraph as an LB3 because it is a limit break. The entire summoning Seraph as part of the job's action is already lore-breaking. Does it mean that Seraph has been enslaved and bound to a crystal? But the soul crystal we have, formerly owned by Surito Carito, is already bound to Lily. You see how Seraph's existence outside of Limit Break territory doesn't make sense and breaks lore? And then what... they doubled down by transforming the SCH to an angel???

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Emmacleas

We have never seen lily, only eos and selene. It is common sense that seraph is selene and eos combined.

---

How did I miss this? I cannot stress how wrong this deduction is. (Mis)Using common sense as an argument is moot. You should really stop making these assumptions without any solid proof to back it up.

Yall keep mentioning this selene? I have some vague memory of a yellowish faire that offered niche but powerful utility. That can't be right though. There's only Eos. Always has been.

whm and sch wings should have been swapped lmao

SCH was always my healer main and I didn't want to abandon it for the SGE bandwagon, but I think Seraphism is gonna make me do just that if it doesn't end up being an optional vfx.

The only feather SCH ever needed was a pen, most likely from a seagull ; seraph and whatever is linked to it is a fanfic ; no lore exists of it.

Eos and Selene done turned SCH into a schizophrenic...

"I am not a master of fairies. I am THE MASTER FAIRY!!!"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Calysto

The only feather SCH ever needed was a pen, most likely from a seagull ; seraph and whatever is linked to it is a fanfic ; no lore exists of it.

---

This is all just a what if. The wol died in the garlean war due to being poisoned. Everything post stormblood is just a fevor dream before we draw our last breath.

So...do we have a picture of what the transformation looks like exactly and what it entails? I tried looking it up and just saw a grainy shot from behind a character.

Throwing a Squall is Dead Theory, eh?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Boblawblah

So...do we have a picture of what the transformation looks like exactly and what it entails? I tried looking it up and just saw a grainy shot from behind a character.

---

We've only seen it from the back so far - the transformation animation itself is beautiful but at the end of it you're just hyur Meoni. Looks like it removes all racial traits. I really wish they hadn't left healers til the very very end we just needed a tiny peep more.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rawker

Throwing a Squall is Dead Theory, eh?

---

I mean... that IS what happened in the OG timeline before the crystal tower shenanigans

Made 4 different transformations for fun for the "transformation".
1. A more humanoid seraph comes and embraces us from behind.
2. A seraphic aura.
3. The fairy sitting on our shoulder with magical strings tied around our arms.
4. Fairy turns into a book with wings that follows you.

https://i.ibb.co/nQ5x1WZ/sera.png

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Katish

1. A more humanoid seraph comes and embraces us from behind.
2. A seraphic aura.

---

I honestly like the idea of Seraph embracing us that leads into an aura that is Seraph themed, maybe baby blue glow subtle feathers (well when I think of seraph I do think of angels/feathers/soft blue). I think the idea of being empowered by Seraph is far nicer than transforming into something else that makes no sense. And it doesn't break our character's glam. I think for reaper there's the benefit of the doubt of 'our avatar ate that voidsent'....but this feels abit weird.

(your image embed is broken or improper I think I can't see it, so I imagined it)

I really do like the idea of summoning extra faires to help. If eos and selene actually had unique abilities again, and you could choose between them, but then had an ability that brought both out for a short duration and another that would bring the other out for a decent cd.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rueby

I honestly like the idea of Seraph embracing us that leads into an aura that is Seraph themed, maybe baby blue glow subtle feathers (well when I think of seraph I do think of angels/feathers/soft blue). I think the idea of being empowered by Seraph is far nicer than transforming into something else that makes no sense. And it doesn't break our character's glam. I think for reaper there's the benefit of the doubt of 'our avatar ate that voidsent'....but this feels abit weird.

(your image embed is broken or improper I think I can't see it, so I imagined it)

---

Unfortunately my img embeds take a bit to register, not sure imgbb is great xD for that regard. Should be fine now. Glad you liked the idea though :3.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fulminating

Il Mheg is the unrelated but similarly named pixies, not fairies. Aloalo island has statice, which is about as close as we've seen but still a bit distinct.

---

Thank you for the information. I have a pretty basic understanding of FFXIV lore, which is why I used the word aesthetics. I used Il Mheg as a reference because it's loaded with a lot of the fairy/pixie/whatever -- "fae" -- type aesthetic I was thinking of, and not so much because of any lore attached to it; the same goes for the sin eater reference: it was about the aesthetics.

I apologize if I confused or agitated any lore enthusiasts.

I agree with the transformation being too invasive in a character since you force the player to wear a robe, healers have too many robes in game for them to force you to wear one now. Idk what were they thinking, we have a big community who’s trying to loose the healer robe aesthetic for a long time and are aggressively asking for more pants xD but they keep ignoring that to a point where you are forced now to wear one.

Lore related, seraph has always been part of the scholar kit being the LB (ultimate spell) for them as nymian marines, the lore even states that seraph is a winged fairie on the description of the LB3 in the encyclopedia. That said, it is normal that we get that summon seraph button since we have gotten stronger over time. We still need that seraph lore to confirm if it’s just a trance form for lily, a complete different entity created from Aether like lily, or a real summon like in the summoner´s case.
Now about that seraphim transformation… the only thing that comes in mind is that first relic we got for the class, the Last Resort. Encyclopedia mentions:

“Legend tells us a grimoire such as this was passed down through the mages of Nym. Indeed, Golbas Rombas, the hero who saved his people from the floods of the Sixth Umbral Calamity, was known to rely upon it as his secret weapon.”
Renowned Hannish alchemist, Jalzahn Daemir

If you see the aesthetic it’s looks very similar from what we got on the trailer, being that white and gold with feathered wings just like the book. It could be that secret weapon mentioned there. That first relic has a lot of job lore which we are missing after lvl 60 and they are probably evolving you to that point. In the end, SCH identity is a mess not because of its kit but because of the lack of lore we have on the class.

Last thing, if seraphism is really tied to that last resort relic weapon, Last Resort is a non-elemental ability used by DKs on other games to buff themselves at the cost of something or, from ffxiii that limit break from Hope. Using that we can speculate that it’s not a white magic ability. But again, without lore we may never know and we can only speculate until someone gets brave enough and asks about it on an interview or they actually release job lore like before…

Without any concrete documentation to support, the existense of Seraphism, just like Seraph being a summonable creature, is questionable. Like what i have said in the previous page, being able to summon Seraph as an LB3 makes sense and it is backed up by lore. Being able to summon Seraph on the other hand, there wasn't any documented lore to support as to how it is possible. For all we know, it is just referring to the summoning done in LB3. So lore-wise and gameplay-wise, Seraph is forced. And they doubled down with Seraphism.

obligatory bump

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Katish

Made 4 different transformations for fun for the "transformation".
1. A more humanoid seraph comes and embraces us from behind.
2. A seraphic aura.
3. The fairy sitting on our shoulder with magical strings tied around our arms.
4. Fairy turns into a book with wings that follows you.

https://i.ibb.co/nQ5x1WZ/sera.png

---

I loved the embracing Seraph :D