Yay, i get to play my job with no changes for another 2+ years...

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Originally Posted by Merrigan

Unpopular opinion perhaps: but I don't see what the problem is with Shinten. It has, in fact, nothing to do with healer problems, because Shinten is an OGCD combined with resource management. It has absolutely nothing to do with the repetitive nature of healers. Even when you're spamming Shinten, there's still the main "rotation" to perform, which brings variation. Shinten just adds a welcome dynamism.

As for the fact that the disappearance of kaiten somewhat simplifies resource management, it's true; but even if it means bringing in additional management, I sincerely think that there was much, much more interesting than kaiten (whose disappearance went over my head, personally). Third Eye, for example, would need to be reworked; offering a synergy between a "defensive" button and the dps you could get is a very good idea.

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I’m not saying that shinten is equivalent to healer “rotations” I’m saying that Kaiten being removed making shinten 20% of your button presses was seen as a massive sacralige against SAM because you shouldn’t have to press one button so much of your rotation completely ignoring the fact that healers deal with 4 times worse than that and SAM still avoids the worst of it by shinten being an OGCD

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

I’m not saying that shinten is equivalent to healer “rotations” I’m saying that Kaiten being removed making shinten 20% of your button presses was seen as a massive sacralige against SAM because you shouldn’t have to press one button so much of your rotation completely ignoring the fact that healers deal with 4 times worse than that and SAM still avoids the worst of it by shinten being an OGCD

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And as I was saying (but I must have been unclear), the fact that you press a button a lot isn't necessarily a problem. It's the way in which this repetition is introduced that can be problematic. In SAM's case, the repetitive aspect of Shinten isn't present IMO, because it's an OGCD.

I'll take another example : the enhancement shaman in WOW had (Legion), a spam system where a soft cap in haste allowed you to hit Stormstrike numerous times. Was it repetitive ? Yes, absolutly. A problem ? Nope. Because it was actually quite orgasmic when you had numerous procs of Stromstrike and you could see your dps go through the roof. All your rotation was centered around this moment where you could spam it again and again.

What I am trying to say is that "high percentage" =/= bad gamedesign. This is actually a flawed interpretation IMO, because it's heavily biased by extra-game tools.

I'm not sure if this is the right thread to post my thoughts in but I am concerned about what they will add to my main. I main SAM and kind off gear and off play RPR and I would almost prefer if they didn't add anything new but instead improve on what's there. I play on ps5 and I feel like the job Def has enough buttons. I would like to see a change to 3rd eye and meditate especially. As for RPR it feels alright but it would be nice to see soulsow be a filler like shinten so there isn't so much down time when your abilities are on cooldown.

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Originally Posted by Niroken

I feel like we always go "just wait and see" when it comes to every expansion, then afterwards go "well, there is always next expansion".

Anyone else notice this?

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IMHO, you successfully spanked every white knight on this message board with 1 post. Well played.

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Originally Posted by Merrigan

And as I was saying (but I must have been unclear), the fact that you press a button a lot isn't necessarily a problem. It's the way in which this repetition is introduced that can be problematic. In SAM's case, the repetitive aspect of Shinten isn't present IMO, because it's an OGCD.

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What I am trying to say is that "high percentage" =/= bad gamedesign. This is actually a flawed interpretation IMO, because it's heavily biased by extra-game tools.

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So, the number I've seen bandied about is that BLM spends about 40% of its actions on Fire IV. This isn't a problem, because the job's entire gameplay loop is about maximizing how many Fire IVs you can pull off. It's a reward for playing well, and it feels like one as well.

Shinten is just another gauge spender — gauge you build up simply by doing the bare minimum of collecting stickers. And as an oGCD that interacts with nothing else, I don't think it even has any oomph to it. Tap and forget. The number of times you should be pushing such a button is zero, because such a button shouldn't exist.

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Originally Posted by AmiableApkallu

So, the number I've seen bandied about is that BLM spends about 40% of its actions on Fire IV. This isn't a problem, because the job's entire gameplay loop is about maximizing how many Fire IVs you can pull off. It's a reward for playing well, and it feels like one as well.

Shinten is just another gauge spender — gauge you build up simply by doing the bare minimum of collecting stickers. And as an oGCD that interacts with nothing else, I don't think it even has any oomph to it. Tap and forget. The number of times you should be pushing such a button is zero, because such a button shouldn't exist.

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I get your point - specially on the whole "building the rotation" thingy. But Shinten is above all, for me, a way of breaking the far too slow pace of the overall gcd. Ideally, a synergy with something else would be perfect, but the fact that it brings more dynamism is already reason enough to exist.

The general pace of a job is important. Not as much as the general rotation, but still.