If the game is getting harder then we will need dps metres. Official ones.

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Originally Posted by Zaniel

Everyone used Details! in WoW and it was horrible, people became completely insane freaks including all the usual stuff about raging in non-Mythic dungeons and the Mythic+ scene was a sewer pit. If you think that wouldn't happen in FF14 you have no idea.

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This. I'm a strong advocate of a more complex game, but I've seen too much drift on WOW to wish for such a tool to be implemented.

Tools like dps meters are only useful for HL. FFXIV will never implement a difficulty that would justify its use for random content. From then on, there's no point, and it's just an extremely dangerous gamble to think that the FF community will magically be more polite than the WOW community if it's given stepping stones to be toxic.

I also repeat what I said a few pages earlier: if a player doesn't bother to find out how to rotate properly (people aren't stupid: they notice when they're not using mudra in nin; they know when their OGCD hasn't been used for a minute; and they know they're not slamming their group buff. They're just content with this level of play), so they won't bother analyzing the dpsmeter either. And without analysis, the dps meter is useless. Indicating that you're above another player at a given moment means nothing at all.

Okay I will say my piece on this I am a ex-WoW player, going from competing for server first to completely casual, I started in 2005 playing and I quit playing in 2022 when I switched over to the game (I did miss burning crusade because I was exiting the military). For those that say nobody cares about your DPS in lower dungeons or easier content, that is a complete lie even in this game I have had two instances where somebody made a comment about how bad my girlfriend was at the game and how her DPS was terrible in a NORMAL 90 not even expert once as dancer once as warrior.(I will say she's new to MMOs but also she is very sick and has to take medical treatments monthly). So if you think putting them in the game won't increase toxicity you're delusional. On the other hand I am 100% for a personal meter that only you can see your damage or people you allow to see your damage. I no there are people trying new classes new jobs and want to be the best at this they can be and they should be more than welcome to have a way to gauge themselves and improve.

I never used and was never asked to use parsers or anything remotely similar in all the years I used to raid. And raids were arguably more difficult back then. That's something for metaslaves who don't like to think for themselves when approaching video games.
Or, y'know, people practicing optimal rotations for world racers. Which are tiny minority of the minority of the minority. And you can't be seen using mods when streaming or recording anyway.

DPS meters lead to toxic behavior, you don't need people staring at meters and not doing mechanics or linking meters to feel superior or make others feel bad. Its a game for goodness sake relax.

Agreed, I come to this game to unwind and just do the best I can even if its difficult content.

I don't need a meter to cause me undue toxic stress.

Teamwork makes the dream work, DPS meters are just annoying PINGUS! sticks.

I think it would be nice to at very least have some kind of meter and analysis avaiable for those Boss training dummies in Stone/Sky/Sea or w/e.

Currently you have to reference community resources if you care about optimizing gameplay or spend a decent amount of time testing things out, as the game doesn't do very good job of actually teaching how to be efficient.

As for having meters for all content, I think it has potential to cause extra grief just because people don't understand how half of the things work. It would be borderline useless before level cap as things shift around when people get new skills on their Jobs and most of the classes are balanced for 8man content. It would be beneficial for console players as they enter end game extremes and up though.

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Originally Posted by ThaCa

I think it would be nice to at very least have some kind of meter and analysis avaiable for those Boss training dummies in Stone/Sky/Sea or w/e.

Currently you have to reference community resources if you care about optimizing gameplay or spend a decent amount of time testing things out, as the game doesn't do very good job of actually teaching how to be efficient.

As for having meters for all content, I think it has potential to cause extra grief just because people don't understand how half of the things work. It would be borderline useless before level cap as things shift around when people get new skills on their Jobs and most of the classes are balanced for 8man content. It would be beneficial for console players as they enter end game extremes and up though.

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Having to use community resources isnt bad. This is an MMO afterall. We already have a dps meter that works fine and well. Why do people want SE to make an inferior product to what we already have?

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Originally Posted by Saraide

Having to use community resources isnt bad. This is an MMO afterall. We already have a dps meter that works fine and well. Why do people want SE to make an inferior product to what we already have?

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Because a lot of people, myself included, think it's good design to have all the relevant information in the game. I'm used to having to dig through wikis and such, but I still think I shouldn't have to do that in order to play a game semi competently.

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Originally Posted by PercibelTheren

Because a lot of people, myself included, think it's good design to have all the relevant information in the game. I'm used to having to dig through wikis and such, but I still think I shouldn't have to do that in order to play a game semi competently.

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Except that a simple meter is borderline useless for self-improvement. Take a whack at Stone, Sea, Sky. Plug in your numbers. Now, based on the results, tell me what you did "wrong" and what you need to do to improve your performance. :confused:

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Originally Posted by PercibelTheren

Because a lot of people, myself included, think it's good design to have all the relevant information in the game. I'm used to having to dig through wikis and such, but I still think I shouldn't have to do that in order to play a game semi competently.

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I dont think SE can provide what you want in a functional manner and definitely not better than the community resources have provided for years now. They dont even want to. I think it's fine to outsource some thing. Voice chat for example is entirely sourced out to whatever the community chooses. Optimization is another thing that is best sourced out as the skill level of good players is usually higher than that of the devs.

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Originally Posted by NYCLouisGamer

*Warning sirens blaring* Toxic casualism alert! Toxic casualism alert!

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*warning sirens* douche alert. Dude grow up...

God, I hope not. Though I don't do content that requires it. If they limit it to Extremes and up sure go nuts. But mentioning dps in my expert roulette should be like a 30-day ban. If I wanted to count beans while I play, I'd play it at work. The last thing I want to do is play my game with a calculator open. Hell no! I will stop playing. I left Wow for the same damn reason. I was tired of getting dps meter chat readouts in level 10 dungeons. Did I say hell no? Hell no!

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Originally Posted by strawberrycake

It's boils back down to, him being too vague and there being many other ways to add stress back to the game

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Of course. If you're vague enough, you have plausible deniability.


Edit On Topic: We'll never get an official dps meters because it would shed light on just how awful many FFXIV players are.

Not that you need a dps meter to see how long it takes for dead-weight to kill a pack mobs. If someone leaves the party after the first pull, its pretty obvious why.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

We didnt need official DPS meters back when healing and tanking was much more complicated. Why would we need them now?

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Ahhh yes..... stance switching. Still miss it.

Most people who have meters already don't know how to interpret the data, so unless you're going to pack a whole tutorial in there... the grey zone is fine enough.

Besides, it's not like their existence has ever stopped people from doing 40% of the damage they should be doing while insisting they're doing everything right. It's the data-driven equivalent of the old quote: "You cannot reason a person out of a position he did not reason himself into in the first place."

They did say before they'll never add it no? Just because people here say that they want to use it for self improvement doesn't mean it won't be used as means to judge/harass people and it'd be an ingame function. I don't think they want the headache that comes with dps meters.

They'll never make the game too hard that the average player can't clear content due to dps check.

The stone, sky, sea dummy things are the dps meters- if you can kill it in time, with plenty of seconds to spare then you're good

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Originally Posted by HeyMcFly

The stone, sky, sea dummy things are the dps meters- if you can kill it in time, with plenty of seconds to spare then you're good

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Except they can be wildly inconsistent and unreliable. They can sometimes be basically impossible to beat because they haven't been tuned correctly, it happened in the first Eden tier.
And they can potentially promote playing your job entirely wrong, since beating a training dummy in a very short timeframe is not the same as an actual bossfight.

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Originally Posted by HeyMcFly

The stone, sky, sea dummy things are the dps meters- if you can kill it in time, with plenty of seconds to spare then you're good

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Also note Stone Sky Sea does nothing to help a group understand their buff window alignment or the current pressure on healer DPS (which can vary wildly).

That's before I touch on how it does nothing to help someone practice keeping their GCD rolling through movement and incoming mechanics.