My name is not against ToS/Rules - Yet being forced to change it

I actually support this. Your name Loli could even be the short version of the name Lollipop. You aren’t even using the name Loli in a way that’s disgraceful.

If theres one thing this community has proven time and time again, Children are fodder to be used and abused so long as a point is made or gratification is obtained. A Semantics argument will be had if you point it out, people will move the goal post, even try too invoke aging laws from other countries about the age of consent, all to maintain their really weird ways to continue using children as fodder. Beause XIV is an online game and IRL stuff obvious doesn't apply right? Even tho they can literally report you to the FBI or your countries equivalent if you're creepy enough.

But no let's say using a term like Loli isn't weird and act like OP isn't trolling.

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Originally Posted by Ysuhli

1.) This isn't a matter of whether it's legal or not. The GMs found it against ToS. This isn't a judicial court of law, there isn't arguing, it's bad

2.) Even if it is legal in X Y or Z countries does not change that it is illegal in others. Trying to make the claim that just because it's legal in some makes it okay doesn't change anything about the subject nor does it make it okay or even remotely acceptable. There's many legal things you can do to people in some countries that are, in nearly all cultures, absolutely reprehensible. It still does not make it okay.

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Never said so, but as the ToS appears to be quite loose and leaves the enforcement up to GMs values. Local laws affect a person's values, like it or not. So in Europe as in the OP's example, where there are many countries with widely different values and laws, it's very hard to understand what "Common decency" in the ToS actually means. And if someone is punished while others aren't, that can feel quite unfair.

My main point is that the ToS needs proper rules. Not this open to GMs interpretation nonsense. If it would mean the word is banned then so be it, at least it would be consistent.

As an example Discord. They ban lolicon, that's okay. It's clear in their ToS. No one should be complaining about it.

About your other point I agree that while the subject is legal in some countries, it is still illegal in others. It being illegal there should be respected. But that respect should go the other way too. If you start pushing your countries own laws and values as absolutes then that becomes an issue.

There is zero incentive and zero reason for a company to switch to a comprehensive list of rules with zero room for discretion in dealing with end users, because end users are exceptionally innovative in finding ways to skirt right along the edge of absolute rules and will use them as both a weapon and a shield.

It's not a design flaw, it is the design.

Tiny edit: The absence of such laws does not denote the condoning of it. No one can draw any conclusions as to whether or not it is or isn't okay.

There are some things in life that pretty much everyone agrees are offensive.

There are other things in life that Person A has no issue with, but Person B doesn't like. And when Person B is the one making the rules on what is, and is not, acceptable, Person A really has no option but to put up with it, even though they may not agree. I've been there myself so I can certainly understand the frustration.

If I was online and ran into the OP with that name, it would in no way bother me at all. I don't have even a remote issue with it.

But clearly someone else does.

Whats worse is that if the OP is from Europe, how they're using Loli is ironically enough perpetuating several things. A stereotype that young asian children are sexual, this stems from very age old myth put in place by western powers like the US and EU when racism against asians was more rampant, that asian girls are hyper sexual, how this connects is that weebs see loli, see young asian girls and instantly equate that asian females are sexual no matter the age, so much so that modern day countries HAD to make the term illegal.

So not only is this sexist, it's racist, and just straight up Creepy.

Like a Literal Japanese person can come on this thread, say this is offensive af and people WILL STILL ARGUE with that person about their culture. lmfaooooo

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Originally Posted by Tahbitha

There are some things in life that pretty much everyone agrees are offensive.

There are other things in life that Person A has no issue with, but Person B doesn't like. And when Person B is the one making the rules on what is, and is not, acceptable, Person A really has no option but to put up with it, even though they may not agree. I've been there myself so I can certainly understand the frustration.

If I was online and ran into the OP with that name, it would in no way bother me at all. I don't have even a remote issue with it.

But clearly someone else does.

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According to some ppl in this thread they would literally hunt the OP down and report him until he was forced to change the name to something else. Sounds very reasonable in this context

To be fair, the name isn't entirely without dubious context. However, it is far from an inherent issue either. Being told you have to change your name is pretty stupid, but I've actually seen people forced to change their name for less. I recall a certain person with the first name Diarrhea on Siren for well over a year until suddenly one day they were forced to change their name because some disgruntled person they got into an argument with reported them for their name. So..

I didn't go through every page of this before replying, so not sure if it ever got resolved, but I'm going to guess that it didn't go well for the OP. Really a shame the GMs have nothing better to do than go through stupid reports like this and even worse to feel it necessary to act on them as opposed to ignore them.

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Originally Posted by Solakor

According to some ppl in this thread they would literally hunt the OP down and report him until he was forced to change the name to something else. Sounds very reasonable in this context

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Define "hunt down" in this context. This isn't people tracking the OP and doxing their IRL details. People saw a player in a game with a name they thought was inappropriate and reported said name that was on their screen, likely from chatting or being qued together.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

at least it shows the true colors of people defending it, thanks for that lmao

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No need to be surprised that I got that opinion when the subject is very clearly not defined as such and is perfectly legal in my country. As long as it isn't realistic or confused with real photos, all good.

But you can keep just attacking character and adding nothing to the argument I'm not expecting anything else at this point.

I think what it comes down to is that you can't say that a term which is widely know to have connotations for harmful and abusive acts to be innocent simply because you don't mean it that way.

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Originally Posted by Petori

Sidenote: It's quite telling how most of the people who are vehemently against the OP appear to be American.

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Because it couldn't possible be that this is an English forum primarily for NA players in a game where there are forums for other populations to post and comment in their native language.

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Originally Posted by Xirean

Define "hunt down" in this context. This isn't people tracking the OP and doxing their IRL details. People saw a player in a game with a name they thought was inappropriate and reported said name that was on their screen, likely from chatting or being qued together.

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I'll let the GMs decide what is hunting down since they seem to be so adept at enforcing the rules

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Originally Posted by Solakor

I'll let the GMs decide what is hunting down since they seem to be so adept at enforcing the rules

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I know you're being sarcastic about this, but for anyone new to this ongoing conversation about GM action: they're horrible about this. There's another thread up right now, (https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...Refusal-to-act) where someone has been stalked and harassed by 1 guy for 3 years. GMs haven't done anything. But if your name offends someone for any reason, you can report it and it goes right up to a GM who can make a subjective judgment call.
The implications of this are honestly kind of scary, because we've seen in the past as well that GMs don't care so much about the harm being inflicted as they do about the fact that someone could have been offended. In one example that I read about a couple of years ago, two friends queued leveling roulette together. A tank and a healer. They had been friends for a while, and liked to joke with each other in the chat. At one point, the tank died and jokingly blamed the healer, saying some stereotypical noob stuff like "grrr stupid healer, u let me die >:(" and the healer, who, again, was friends with the tank and was not offended by this at all, just sorta laughed and went like "fku lmao" and they kept going and eventually cleared. Now, neither of these 2 involved in the interaction were offended by what the other was saying. But a DPS in the group did not know the tank and healer were friends, so he filed a report against (iirc) the tank for being mean to the healer. The tank was then disciplined over his rudeness and given a strike on his account. When the GM refused to explain what the ban was about, the tank took a wild guess and told the GM in the gaol like, "hey if it's about what I said to a healer, that was banter with a friend of mine, he knows I didn't mean that stuff" and the GM basically said that it didn't matter that they were friends, it didn't matter that nobody was actually harmed; all that mattered was that somebody else in the group who wasn't even involved in the conversation felt bothered enough on behalf of the healer (who wasn't offended) to send in the report. I wish I could find the damn thread; it's been years.

Going off of that precedent and this one though, the door's basically open for me to report any name I want, for any stupid reason, and it's basically a cointoss on whether or not a GM decides my feelings warrant you changing a name that you've had for years. All the people in here talking about reporting the OP have names similar to real people I can google. I am free to report that because their real life name references "break my immersion and I'm also offended on behalf of the people they're referencing, who never asked to be used in such a way." You might think I'm being ridiculous to say something like that. You might even say that I'm misinterpreting your name. But none of that matters if we examine the precedent already set in this instance, and in other instances. All that matters is I'm upset, I'm blaming you for it, and now we'll see if a GM agrees or not. They might say it doesn't even matter that your name's harmless; since it offends me, that's enough. Now, I wouldn't do that because I'm not a rat snitch, but the precedent is there now. Congratulations. This is your game.

Just one more reason to never interact with any of the brittle people playing it.

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Originally Posted by Avoidy

The implications of this are honestly kind of scary, because we've seen in the past as well that GMs don't care so much about the harm being inflicted as they do about the fact that someone could have been offended. In one example that I read about a couple of years ago, two friends queued leveling roulette together. A tank and a healer. They had been friends for a while, and liked to joke with each other in the chat. At one point, the tank died and jokingly blamed the healer, saying some stereotypical noob stuff like "grrr stupid healer, u let me die >:(" and the healer, who, again, was friends with the tank and was not offended by this at all, just sorta laughed and went like "fku lmao" and they kept going and eventually cleared. Now, neither of these 2 involved in the interaction were offended by what the other was saying. But a DPS in the group did not know the tank and healer were friends, so he filed a report against (iirc) the tank for being mean to the healer. The tank was then disciplined over his rudeness and given a strike on his account. When the GM refused to explain what the ban was about, the tank took a wild guess and told the GM in the gaol like, "hey if it's about what I said to a healer, that was banter with a friend of mine, he knows I didn't mean that stuff" and the GM basically said that it didn't matter that they were friends, it didn't matter that nobody was actually harmed; all that mattered was that somebody else in the group who wasn't even involved in the conversation felt bothered enough to send in the report. I wish I could find the damn thread; it's been years.

Going off of that precedent and this one though, the door's basically open for me to report any name I want, for any stupid reason, and it's basically a cointoss on whether or not a GM decides my feelings warrant you changing a name that you've had for years. All the people in here talking about reporting the OP have names similar to real people I can google. I am free to report that because their real life name references "break my immersion and I'm also offended on behalf of the people they're referencing, who never asked to be used in such a way." You might think I'm being ridiculous to say something like that. You might even say that I'm misinterpreting your name. But none of that matters if we examine the precedent already set in this instance, and in other instances. All that matters is I'm upset, I'm blaming you for it, and now we'll see if a GM agrees or not. They might say it doesn't even matter that your name's harmless; since it offends me, that's enough. Now, I wouldn't do that because I'm not a rat snitch, but the precedent is there now. Congratulations. This is your game.

Just one more reason to never interact with any of the brittle people playing it.

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While I do think it's stupid to not inform the person of their alleged wrong doings; to be taken to the actual GM jail requires more than just one bad incident (unless it was an insanely bad incident). If this pair were playing together for a while and had this banter the entire time and only now is the tank being reprimanded for it then they were likely accruing reports for a while. The action taken in that instance is because of a noticed pattern of reported chat behavior. Depending on how much they banter back and forth it wouldn't surprise me if the healer also had collected a good number of reports as well.

As frustrating as that situation can be, you do need to take into account that other people often cannot tell the difference between a random person being rude to another and friends joking with each other in an online space.

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Originally Posted by Xirean

While I do think it's stupid to not inform the person of their alleged wrong doings; to be taken to the actual GM jail requires more than just one bad incident (unless it was an insanely bad incident). If this pair were playing together for a while and had this banter the entire time and only now is the tank being reprimanded for it then they were likely accruing reports for a while. The action taken in that instance is because of a noticed pattern of reported chat behavior. Depending on how much they banter back and forth it wouldn't surprise me if the healer also had collected a good number of reports as well.

As frustrating as that situation can be, you do need to take into account that other people often cannot tell the difference between a random person being rude to another and friends joking with each other in an online space.

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Gonna be real with you, I was paraphrasing most of that since I read it years ago. He could've been replying to an email about the strike or something. My main point was when he tried to communicate with the team about it, they slapped him with "it doesn't matter that no real harm occurred, what matters is someone was offended enough on behalf of somebody else to report you in the first place." This is the crux of the issue. And when it comes to usernames, it leaves the door wide open for anyone to get butthurt about something wholly unrelated and then just report a person's name to get back at them or something. It's baffling to me how the whole system's ripe for abuse, while simultaneously useless where it's actually needed.

Why is it difficult to understand the problems with the name in the first place baffles me, it is wrong, I don't know why we need 13 pages of this and I don't know why af Moderator does not simply shut this one down, because it is pointless, likewise it will ask many questions about people that think it is ok, and can't see it for themself as it is.

And it also makes me want to dodge those people at any cost and keep my family members away from them as it is.

The gms have done things for that stalking thread. The person is using trial accounts and fake info to continue doing it.


There isn't much that can be done by SE to stop that from an administrative pov. IPs change, so an IP block won't work. MAC filtering also wouldn't work, as that changes with each hop in a route.

They need to either make changes to housing to allow block lists to function, which stormy hates because venues, or make it so trial accounts can't access even more, like search info and housing districts at all.

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Originally Posted by Avoidy

Gonna be real with you, I was paraphrasing most of that since I read it years ago. He could've been replying to an email about the strike or something. My main point was when he tried to communicate with the team about it, they slapped him with "it doesn't matter that no real harm occurred, what matters is someone was offended enough on behalf of somebody else to report you in the first place." This is the crux of the issue. And when it comes to usernames, it leaves the door wide open for anyone to get butthurt about something wholly unrelated and then just report a person's name to get back at them or something. It's baffling to me how the whole system's ripe for abuse, while simultaneously useless where it's actually needed.

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I see your point, however that is the same flaw of any report led enforcement. I always encourage people to file a report if someone did something bothersome, because without reports it is a near certainty that nothing will be done at all. It's also not likely that the reporter will get any notification that their report did something in the first place. You just send it and hope for the best. It's not a perfect system by any means, but it does serve a purpose and in this case as well as your hypothetical I would agree that it worked as intended.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

The gms have done things for that stalking thread. The person is using trial accounts and fake info to continue doing it.
There isn't much that can be done by SE to stop that from an administrative pov. IPs change, so an IP block won't work. MAC filtering also wouldn't work, as that changes with each hop in a route.
They need to either make changes to housing to allow block lists to function, which stormy hates because venues, or make it so trial accounts can't access even more, like search info and housing districts at all.

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Resolving the stalking issue requires a rework of many systems for this game. At present it doesn't seem like SE wants to do that, but hopefully if people keep making noise about it we may some day see change.

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Originally Posted by Avoidy

All the people in here talking about reporting the OP have names similar to real people I can google. I am free to report that because their real life name references "break my immersion and I'm also offended on behalf of the people they're referencing, who never asked to be used in such a way."

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Please report me for this. The GM could probably use a quick laugh and an easy ticket to dismiss.

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Originally Posted by Themarvin

Why is it difficult to understand the problems with the name in the first place baffles me, it is wrong, I don't know why we need 13 pages of this and I don't know why af Moderator does not simply shut this one down, because it is pointless, likewise it will ask many questions about people that think it is ok, and can't see it for themself as it is.

And it also makes me want to dodge those people at any cost and keep my family members away from them as it is.

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The difference is just how people define the word. I've always seen the word as meaning the appearance of a little girl. It's not until many years after I first heard the term I even looked up anything about the lolicon origin.
Others like yourself however can't see anything except it's origin.
You're free to dodge whoever you want of course but this is just to point out that your definition of the term isn't universal as we see from this thread. Just cuz someone is defending the use of the name doesn't mean they're a pedo.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

There isn't much that can be done by SE to stop that from an administrative pov. IPs change, so an IP block won't work. MAC filtering also wouldn't work, as that changes with each hop in a route.
They need to either make changes to housing to allow block lists to function, which stormy hates because venues, or make it so trial accounts can't access even more, like search info and housing districts at all.

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Then they haven't done enough, because that person is still being abused and all they've done is an account ban that even the dumbest kid can skate around by just making a new account. There's a workaround for most things if you're determined enough; doesn't mean they just shouldn't try because he might skate around it. Try the IP ban. Maybe his ISP gave him a static one and it'll actually be a pain in the ass for him to change. Hell, when he wants to make a new account, he has to go to the same webpage on the same PC using the same internet connection to set up a new account, right? Maybe find a way to block him there. Idk. I agree with what you're saying in the last bit though; there need to be more changes to this game overall to make it less friendly for stalkers, but they don't even do that either. Game's been awful in this regard for years and it just stays that way. It's a topic for another thread, but it pisses me off.

More to the point, outside of that thread I posted (I only defaulted to it because it was easiest to find) I could name so many more instances of people just being awful in this game and allowed to continue by GMs who don't do jack because on -these- infractions of the ToS, they enforce the rules sporadically at best. Look at the guy who filmed himself flying through the Fall Guys arena and uploaded it to twitter. Man cheats in pvp every day. Where are the GMs? Nowhere to be seen! Look at the bots under Limsa, just chilling there. Or the bots flying to different nodes in the same zone. Or the bots farming exploratory zones. Same dudes, week after week, no GM action there. Like ... the point is these GMs are not consistent in how they enforce the rules of their own game. They bow to the whims of hurt feefees over harmless BS like some banter in a dungeon or a name shared by thousands of other players, while letting the rest of the game go straight to hell without lifting a finger. Where's the clarity? If the name is so bad, can they make it inaccessible in the character creator going forward? That way nobody ever has to get offended by it again, right? But they won't do this. Because it's not even about the name; it's about the fact that someone got upset and the moderation team is hell bent on placating offended players even when it's frankly obvious that they're just weaponizing their reports to strike at people they dislike.

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Originally Posted by _Amorphous

Please report me for this. The GM could probably use a quick laugh and an easy ticket to dismiss.

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https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...3vBPU5KeRzug&s

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Originally Posted by Thurmnmurmn

The difference is just how people define the word. I've always seen the word as meaning the appearance of a little girl. It's not until many years after I first heard the term I even looked up anything about the lolicon origin.
Others like yourself however can't see anything except it's origin.
You're free to dodge whoever you want of course but this is just to point out that your definition of the term isn't universal as we see from this thread. Just cuz someone is defending the use of the name doesn't mean they're a pedo.

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Well 12-14 year olds are not supposed to be married away, kids need to have time to be kids, and there is really nothing good you can say about a name like this, if the Op is blond about it, then maybe should actually decide and look into things as it is.

If the general view of the word is looked upon bad and more, then that alone should be a clear signal to that you definetely should not name yourself like that, or investigate and see for yoursel what the problem is about it and bend a knee and change it, and if am persistant on it that it is ok or whatever, then should expect people not taking it lightly and doing the right thing, to do whatever to remove bad stuff and pending on the situation, call in the authorities as well in the real world.

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Originally Posted by Themarvin

Well 12-14 year olds are not supposed to be married away, kids need to have time to be kids, and there is really nothing good you can say about a name like this, if the Op is blond about it, then maybe should actually decide and look into things as it is.

If the general view of the word is looked upon bad and more, then that alone should be a clear signal to that you definetely should not name yourself like that, or investigate and see for yoursel what the problem is about it and bend a knee and change it, and if am persistant on it that it is ok or whatever, then should expect people not taking it lightly and doing the right thing, to do whatever to remove bad stuff and pending on the situation, call in the authorities as well in the real world.

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Did the OP imply any way about any of that? No. You are giving your own meaning to this which has nothing to do with OPs name. Do not blame your own delusions on other ppl. Not everyone lives on the internet and has nothing else to do than police the internet because they are too well off and don't have actual problems.

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Originally Posted by MAJRIS

https://i.imgur.com/tPrU9en.png

OP do you need diagram to explain?

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Considering the divide in this thread, I would place it more in the middle.

@OP

https://c.tenor.com/Ck5Viielns0AAAAC/tenor.gif

I feel like a lot of people here would justify certain images and animations because "she's not really a child she's a 100 year old dragon that just looks and acts like a child."

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Originally Posted by SieyaM

I feel like a lot of people here would justify certain images and animations because "she's not really a child she's a 100 year old dragon that just looks and acts like a child."

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literally everyone defending this really is exactly that lmao

They shoulda restricted your account from making any Lala chars as well with a name like that lmao

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Originally Posted by Xirean

You know you can report those names in novice network, right?

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Why would I report them if name doesn't bother me. Then I would have to report people's names that is the same in real life. It's just fictional fantasy game and not real so why report a name.

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Originally Posted by hynaku

Why would I report them if name doesn't bother me. Then I would have to report people's names that is the same in real life. It's just fictional fantasy game and not real so why report a name.

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You said you had seen worse names in game. Inappropriate names are reportable. If you don't want to report them then that's your prerogative. You just came off as surprised that someone would report the OP because you've "see worse".

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Originally Posted by hynaku

Why would I report them if name doesn't bother me. Then I would have to report people's names that is the same in real life. It's just fictional fantasy game and not real so why report a name.

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So here's a fun fact, hospitals and family judges can keep parents from naming their kids stupid things in a lot of case for the sake of the childs health and safety. Theres literally a system in place for this irl.

Theres a good chance someone you know was saved from being named something that would harm them or make their lives hard.

The GM did you a favor. Imagine having a name that is going to have people thinking you are a 'PDF', but then turning around and trying to justify to keep it on the forums instead of getting rid of it. First the lalafel chair, now this... Are you going to change the widespread perception of what "loli" means to people? No? Then why would you want to keep this name? It's pretty telling to the real motivations already.

To all the people complaining about the subjectivity of the rules: just don't make questionable names, it's really easy to not get in trouble for your name -- try using a normal name. Same goes for getting reported in this game, just don't swear in public and act like a normal person and you'll be fine.

The select few people also who are defending this take /continuously/ in this thread, y'all need to stop slowing down TOO much at school zones; being so invested in this is highly sus.

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Originally Posted by Solakor

Did the OP imply any way about any of that? No. You are giving your own meaning to this which has nothing to do with OPs name. Do not blame your own delusions on other ppl. Not everyone lives on the internet and has nothing else to do than police the internet because they are too well off and don't have actual problems.

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Stop being a troll, I am just telling what it implicates, stop acting like you are the victim... or for that sake if the Op is the victim... the potential victims can be the innocent in this, and that is how it is, and people certainly don't like having that as a possibility.

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Originally Posted by Themarvin

Stop being a troll, I am just telling what it implicates, stop acting like you are the victim... or for that sake if the Op is the victim... the potential victims can be the innocent in this, and that is how it is, and people certainly don't like having that as a possibility.

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??? You are making head canons about things that don't exist and giving meanings to things that don't have anything to do with your perspective. Victim this victim that. It's a frikking video game character name and it's not attacking anybody holy moly.

Anyway. Just because something isn't technically illegal wherever you live, doesn't mean it isn't immoral and gross.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/5a/b8...62c02a1023.gif

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Originally Posted by Solakor

??? You are making head canons about things that don't exist and giving meanings to things that don't have anything to do with your perspective. Victim this victim that. It's a frikking video game character name and it's not attacking anybody holy moly.

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Educate yourself with the meaning, and the Op is well aware of what it means, and it is something that 99% of the world is against pretty much, just stop? Why are you even ending implicating yourself?

I would have associated the name with a lollipop. Didn't know that it could mean something else. In this regard I find it a bit strange having to know which words in a country are taboo but not in your country.

I don't find this any way offensive even knowing the context.