Time for an anti-cheat

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Originally Posted by Larirawiel

There are some technical reasons why i wrote it and my postings do not contradict. :) It is only a matter of effort, the botters/cheaters have to do to overcome the anticheat mechanisms. You can technically prevent a working code injection. This will propably stop all textures and model altering mods, damage meters etc. Code injection is also very easy to do for the players. Just start the character altering mod/parser with Administrator rights or use a special launcher and you are done. And that is the reason why so many players do that. Because it is easy. If you stop a working code injection, then many players and developers of those tools will simply give up.

But when it comes to stop Gil selling botters, they will not give up so quickly because real money is involved. For botting, teleport hacks etc. code injection is not needed. And if you put the whole Windows installation into a virtual machine then you can do what you want with the game from the VM host. But setting up such a virtual machine, which allows you to modify a game, running in the guest OS is way harder than starting a special launcher with elevated rights.

So no, you cannot prevent cheats and bots but you can raise the effort, which would be needed to run them successfully.


Cheers

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You can prevent regular players from cheating, you can prevent cheating from being widespread and normalized. That alone justifies the means. Nobody expects the game to be free of cheaters, but it's a fair expectation for cheating to be abnormal.

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Originally Posted by Larirawiel

Cheers

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Cheers to you too :)

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Originally Posted by HikariKurosawa

You can prevent regular players from cheating, you can prevent cheating from being widespread and normalized. That alone justifies the means. Nobody expects the game to be free of cheaters, but it's a fair expectation for cheating to be abnormal.

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There are so many online games with anticheat mechanisms and they are still full with bots. Again, as soon as you can earn money with botfarms, then the botfarm operators will put much more effort to neutralize the anticheat mechanisms compared to normal players. And if you make millions of Dollars with a botfarm then you can easily hire some software developers for very advanced bot software. If they put the Windows installation with the game into a virtual machine (things like KVM or Virtual Box or Hyper-V or VMware etc.) then the anticheat has no chance to detect a bot running outside of the VM. Because the anticheat mechanism runs inside of the VM and you can easily fool it. And yes, maybe an anticheat will fend off some normal players. But an anticheat is also a hack into your OS. And hacks can rise serious security holes into your Windows installation. And yes, it already happened in the past:

https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/new...ble-antivirus/


Cheers

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Originally Posted by HikariKurosawa

You can prevent regular players from cheating, you can prevent cheating from being widespread and normalized. That alone justifies the means. Nobody expects the game to be free of cheaters, but it's a fair expectation for cheating to be abnormal.

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Cheating is "abnormal".

Use of mods may be against the Terms of Service but it only becomes cheating when it gives a player an unfair advantage in completing content compared to those who don't use mods.

Most of the mod use in the game is not related to giving the player an unfair advantage in completing content. It's akin to taking a test where you're told to only use a black pen to mark your answers and you choose to use a blue one instead because you like blue more. Did you break the rule? Yes. Did you gain an unfair advantage in completing the test by doing so? No.

The amount of mod use that truly is cheating is small. If it were rampant, clear rates of high end content when still current would be much higher than they are and come much sooner after release.

So is there cheating? Yes, as you say you can't expect a game to be free of cheaters. Is it normalized? No. Most players will earn their clears and wins through honest skill and effort.

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Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

Final Fantasy XIV is one of the few online games which does not have server-side cheat detection.

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so...how fares the other online games that do have cheat detection?

They're 100% free of cheats, add-on, and bots I assume?

You guys can pretend and make all this stuff up all you want but all it does is illustrate how little you care about fairness in gaming and how you don't take this game seriously. It's fine, but it makes the game and its community look bad.

Have fun while you can, technological development is inevitable and AI will make it easy to deal with cheaters soon enough.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Cheating is "abnormal".

Use of mods may be against the Terms of Service but it only becomes cheating when it gives a player an unfair advantage in completing content compared to those who don't use mods.

Most of the mod use in the game is not related to giving the player an unfair advantage in completing content. It's akin to taking a test where you're told to only use a black pen to mark your answers and you choose to use a blue one instead because you like blue more. Did you break the rule? Yes. Did you gain an unfair advantage in completing the test by doing so? No.

The amount of mod use that truly is cheating is small. If it were rampant, clear rates of high end content when still current would be much higher than they are and come much sooner after release.

So is there cheating? Yes, as you say you can't expect a game to be free of cheaters. Is it normalized? No. Most players will earn their clears and wins through honest skill and effort.

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Look at the database on fflogs. "But parsing isn't cheating!!" Yes, it is. It enables you to see who is underperforming, who is overperforming, what it takes to clear content. It is a live metric of your performance and how optimal your rotation is, it takes out so much work that it is crazy. Nobody has ever or would ever add up the numbers in battle log because it would be more efficient and effective to just play the game at that point. It isn't supposed to be so easy to see who is performing. All it does is create a system where the game is taken way too seriously in the wrong way and raises the bar of expectations to unrealistic levels. Instead of letting people naturally improve at the game and be seen as human players, they are seen as numbers on a parse and considered for their performance in a parse.

Then there are people who use auto rotations, simplified rotations, cooldown meters, dot meters, auto marking, cactbot, etc. It's very common and it is all cheating. All of this provides a huge competitive advantage in the raid scene.

Pretend all you want, but this game is dead to anyone who cares about fair play.

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Originally Posted by HikariKurosawa

You guys can pretend and make all this stuff up all you want but all it does is illustrate how little you care about fairness in gaming and how you don't take this game seriously. It's fine, but it makes the game and its community look bad.

Have fun while you can, technological development is inevitable and AI will make it easy to deal with cheaters soon enough.

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Cheaters would never know what hit them. It's not like those third party developers would ever think to utilize the power of AI to develop better cheats and bots.

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Pretend all you want, but this game is dead to anyone who cares about fair play.

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Online gaming is a cruel cruel world. Why can't everyone just be polite, lawful, honest, virtuous and fill the world with rainbows and laughter? Is this too much to ask?

ITT: Cheaters malding over someone calling them out on being trash

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Originally Posted by HikariKurosawa

It isn't supposed to be so easy to see who is performing.

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Me when I'm mad no one wants to hard carry me through savage.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

Me when I'm mad no one wants to hard carry me through savage.

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Can't relate and not the point that was made. I was talking about how you are required to have experience to get into groups, and have to have a resume. It creates an old boy's club environment and lowers the overall participation in end game. This makes the level of play lower than it should be because there are far less people playing that level of content than there would be if not for these systems.

Keep pretending you're good though, even with cheats you're bad.

In every MMO I've played run by lazy/complacent devs, an anti-cheat rollout has happened in the following way, and I don't think XIV's case would be different:
1) Anti-cheat gets implemented
2) Several hours later, cheaters figure out how to bypass it
3) Legit players are stuck dealing with performance issues caused by the anti-cheat; some are also banned because their kb/m drivers weren't whitelisted in the anticheat's configuration settings due to lazy/complacent devs
4) Cheaters continue to cheat, while regular players deal with a worse game

You don't want this. Instead what we need are for GMs to look at the mountain of overwhelming video evidence and actually ban these people. Since half of these guys stream their cheating anyway, this isn't even hard to do. The reason it's not done is because a vast amount of the cheating you want banned is QoL stuff that nobody cares about. "Oh my god his UI is different" "Oh my god he gave his male roe big milkers" like bro who cares. What's annoying af is when we send in pics of bot city under limsa and it just sits there for years being allowed to bot and rmt all day every day. The devs don't care and if they put in an anticheat it's just gonna screw over regular players even more because you know and I know that cbu3 won't configure it right and won't bother changing it even if we all whine about how it thinks our gaming mouse is a cheating tool because it doesn't recognize the drivers. Unironically one of the few things this game has going for it is the lack of an intrusive rootkit piece of crap anticheat like gameguard or whatever.

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Originally Posted by HikariKurosawa

Keep pretending you're good though, even with cheats you're bad.

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Man, you're still here? I wonder what you'll do in your free time once your sub runs out (allegedly).

By the way, the Super Ultra Mega Cheaty logs that people save are often public. And people can post logs of your performance without you knowing. I recommend checking yours before throwing stones.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

Man, you're still here? I wonder what you'll do in your free time once your sub runs out (allegedly).

By the way, the Super Ultra Mega Cheaty logs that people save are often public. And people can post logs of your performance without you knowing. I recommend checking yours before throwing stones.

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I'll play better games like I already am?

Check my parse I don't care rofl. You admitted to using addons that simplify your rotations in this very thread everything you say is invalid.

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Originally Posted by HikariKurosawa

I'll play better games like I already am?

Check my parse I don't care rofl. You admitted to using addons that simplify your rotations in this very thread everything you say is invalid.

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My rotations? When did I say that? Please quote the post where I said "I use addons that simplify my rotation" 'cause now you're just running out of material.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

My rotations? When did I say that? Please quote the post where I said "I use addons that simplify my rotation" 'cause now you're just running out of material.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

Yeah, it's super weird that some people like myself might use third-party mods for accessibility reasons, that's super weird and suspicious.

Quit with the vague witch-hunting, people don't oppose anti-cheat methods because they cheat. Get over your stupid binary view of the world.

I'll turn it around on you though; why do you hate disabled people so much? That's kind of sus. You're actually pretty evil for being so aggressively against people who need to mod the game to be able to see things better or have slightly easier inputs. What an awful human being you are.

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Mr "my vision isn't 20:20 I have a disability"

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Originally Posted by HikariKurosawa

Mr "my vision isn't 20:20 I have a disability"

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I didn't say I used mods that made my inputs easier. And I don't. I said that people may use them. Perhaps you need to get your own eyes checked, but thanks for now tripling down on your hated of disabled people, mocking my ability to see.

Allow me to quote the thing I said that you quoted and somehow ignored:

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Originally Posted by Doozer

Please quote the post where I said "I use addons that simplify my rotation"

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Note the bold. Show me where I said >>> I <<< use those mods.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

I didn't say I used mods that made my inputs easier. And I don't. I said that people may use them. Perhaps you need to get your own eyes checked, but thanks for now tripling down on your hated of disabled people, mocking my ability to see.

Allow me to quote the thing I said that you quoted and somehow ignored:



Note the bold. Show me where I said >>> I <<< use those mods.

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I don't care whether you are disabled or not, I don't hate you for it regardless. I just think it's detestable to cheat for any reason. Even if you're a disabled person for real, it doesn't justify breaking the ToS.

It's irrelevant so it is pointless to bring it up in a thread about anti-cheat. You should get a grip on reality and let go of your persecution complex. You are being persecuted for cheating, it has nothing to do with your "disability" that may or may not exist and is totally irrelevant.

Both you and I know what you meant.

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Originally Posted by HikariKurosawa

Both you and I know what you meant.

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No. No we don't. But everyone knows what you mean when you say "'disability'" and "even if you're a disabled person".

Hey by the way just checking, when did you say your sub ran out? Asking for no reason in particular.

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Originally Posted by HikariKurosawa

Mr "my vision isn't 20:20 I have a disability"

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Doubling down on insulting disabled people I see

really going at it with the trolling huh ? scared of your threads losing steam ?

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Originally Posted by Doozer

No. No we don't. But everyone knows what you mean when you say "'disability'" and "even if you're a disabled person".

Hey by the way just checking, when did you say your sub ran out? Asking for no reason in particular.

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What do you think I mean other than the fact that it's irrelevant. Do people in the special olympics get to use jet propulsion systems to swim faster because they have a physical disability that makes it harder for them to swim? The answer is no. Stop trying to justify being a cheater, you're making the honest disabled people look bad. Dude really wants special treatment and to be exempt from the rules just because he has a disability.

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Originally Posted by HikariKurosawa

What do you think I mean other than the fact that it's irrelevant. Do people in the special olympics get to use jet propulsion systems to swim faster because they have a physical disability that makes it harder for them to swim? The answer is no. Stop trying to justify being a cheater, you're making the honest disabled people look bad.

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Now calling them fake disabled too

you sure are going at it, at least i think at this point everyone knows you're trolling and people just see you as entertainment, including me

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

Now calling them fake disabled too

you sure are going at it, at least i think at this point everyone knows you're trolling and people just see you as entertainment, including me

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When did I call them fake disabled? I am challenging the validity of their claims but also saying that honest disabled people don't break the rules or use their disability as an excuse. They make do with what they have, utilize the allowed accessibility and play to the best of their ability.

You are confused and seem to think being disabled justifies being a cheater. No matter what your status, cheating is cheating.

dishonest and disabled =/= fake disabled.

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Originally Posted by HikariKurosawa

Stop trying to justify being a cheater, you're making the honest disabled people look bad. Dude really wants special treatment and to be exempt from the rules just because he has a disability.

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Just saving this quote in case you have an uncharacteristic moment of clarity and decide to delete or edit the post.

I see they parse grey for personality too.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

Just saving this quote in case you have an uncharacteristic moment of clarity and decide to delete or edit the post.

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Why would I ever delete that post lol, you think this is a gottem moment but the reality is you're just using your disability as an excuse for cheating. The persecution complex is real, but yes, I am out to get you. For cheating.

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Originally Posted by HikariKurosawa

Why would I ever delete that post lol, you think this is a gottem moment but the reality is you're just using your disability as an excuse for cheating.

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Just saving this one too tbh. Keep going.

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Originally Posted by OgruMogru

I see they parse grey for personality too.

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Also that's hilarious, I'll have to remember that one.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

Just saving this one too tbh. Keep going.



Also that's hilarious, I'll have to remember that one.

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Keep saving them, keep occupying your mind with cope for being a cheater.

People don't want to be caught with their paid ERP mods, so they are against anti cheat.

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Originally Posted by HikariKurosawa

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The day this happens is the same day they hire people to fix up adding actual hats like they were supposed to since shadowbringers for vierra and hrothgar. And as this has yet to happen since we're coming up on the third expansion with less and less hats (especially coming from holiday events), Im gonna assume when hell freezes over. This will be the same day we get actual monster hunter gear from an event instead of half baked excuses by development about why we have 5 star crafters, but they can't make any gear whatsoever from that universe.

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Originally Posted by Elkanah

The day this happens is the same day they hire people to fix up adding actual hats like they were supposed to since shadowbringers for vierra and hrothgar. And as this has yet to happen since we're coming up on the third expansion with less and less hats (especially coming from holiday events), Im gonna assume when hell freezes over. This will be the same day we get actual monster hunter gear from an event instead of half baked excuses by development about why we have 5 star crafters, but they can't make any gear whatsoever from that universe.

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That's fine I'll just play WoW until then because at least they are clear about rules and actively ban cheaters.

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Originally Posted by HikariKurosawa

That's fine I'll just play WoW until then because at least they are clear about rules and actively ban cheaters.

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You mean like this? https://www.twitch.tv/sodapoppin/cli...Bg-ZqHOfRAZhEA

https://us.battle.net/support/en/article/269874

Seems like someone literally admits to cheating, Blizzards takes the gold and weapon away, but didn't ban them. Guess you'll be leaving them too since they don't ban admitted cheaters right? It seems like your choices of MMO's are dwindling pretty quickly.

Before you say it, yes, I watched the whole clip. They didn't ban the WF raiders for the reputation exploit right before this last RWF either, they just rolled back the exploiters rep. The gist is, they don't ban either.

WoW players literally won't invite you to a raid static without a good enough score on a third party plugin. The average WoW raider is about on par with the tryhards here.

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Originally Posted by PredatoryCatgirl

WoW players literally won't invite you to a raid static without a good enough score on a third party plugin. The average WoW raider is about on par with the tryhards here.

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Difference is that WoW is balanced around those addons and it's not cheating to use them in that game.

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Originally Posted by Menriq

You mean like this? https://www.twitch.tv/sodapoppin/cli...Bg-ZqHOfRAZhEA

https://us.battle.net/support/en/article/269874

Seems like someone literally admits to cheating, Blizzards takes the gold and weapon away, but didn't ban them. Guess you'll be leaving them too since they don't ban admitted cheaters right? It seems like your choices of MMO's are dwindling pretty quickly.

Before you say it, yes, I watched the whole clip. They didn't ban the WF raiders for the reputation exploit right before this last RWF either, they just rolled back the exploiters rep. The gist is, they don't ban either.

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They're being punished for their actions and people do get banned for it. People get away with everything in this game. If soda continues to break the rules the actions taken against his account will become more severe.

Looks like xenosysvex got banned for zoomhacking though, been a while since he played ffxiv. I doubt we'll hear about it but it's good if he did.

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Originally Posted by HikariKurosawa

Difference is that WoW is balanced around those addons and it's not cheating to use them in that game.



They're being punished for their actions and people do get banned for it. People get away with everything in this game. If soda continues to break the rules the actions taken against his account will become more severe.

Looks like xenosysvex got banned for zoomhacking though, been a while since he played ffxiv. I doubt we'll hear about it but it's good if he did.

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god your whining material is getting stale, at least if you want to troll do it better come on, this aint it chief, we're falling asleep here

https://media2.giphy.com/media/l0MYu...d=200.gif&ct=g

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Originally Posted by HikariKurosawa

People get away with everything in this game.

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Originally Posted by HikariKurosawa

Looks like xenosysvex got banned for zoomhacking

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Gonna need you to pick a lane and stick to it.

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Originally Posted by OgruMogru

I see they parse grey for personality too.

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not just a grey parse, a flat out 0

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Originally Posted by Menriq

Gonna need you to pick a lane and stick to it.

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I mean it's unverified information, he just hasn't streamed ffxiv for 4 days since I reported him on twitch and the support desk. A big streamer like that who constantly minimizes the impact addons have in this game being banned once would be a step in the right direction but it's unknowable. Do you have proof he was banned?

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Originally Posted by Ivtrix

not just a grey parse, a flat out 0

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Not sure how that is relevant to the subject. If you're out here trying to peacock your personality in an anti-cheat thread, that's interesting psychology. Of course my parses will be bad in game though, it's the same concept. I am not in groups where it is possible to parse good because they are either from duty finder or random PF pugs with strangers that have zero experience playing together.

What an inane point you're trying to make. I don't care about parsing either way, I just don't want people to get away with breaking the terms of service anymore.

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Originally Posted by HikariKurosawa

I am not in groups where it is possible to parse good because they are either from duty finder or random PF pugs with strangers that have zero experience playing together.

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So the truth finally comes out -- you're mad about people using third-party programs like parsers because they won't let you play with them. It took 18 pages, but it's nice to see you finally came clean about it. Perhaps this thread can finally die now.

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Originally Posted by HikariKurosawa

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To sum it up:
It took 18 pages to figure out that you cant play your job well enough, and cant find a group because of play (being that you're not actually trying to learn the ins and outs of your job for said endgame content) and the meta behind your job.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

So the truth finally comes out -- you're mad about people using third-party programs like parsers because they won't let you play with them. It took 18 pages, but it's nice to see you finally came clean about it. Perhaps this thread can finally die now.

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It would be funny if that was the truth, but it is not. I haven't tried doing savages since P1S P2S(both cleared when they came out) and P3S(which I was able to find groups for but unable to clear that early in the expansion), after which point I quit the game due to finding out about how many people used addons. I felt like all my work was invalidated because of how many people cheated in this community. I tried to make groups that were addon free and people just left once we got in despite the party finder description saying it clearly. I resubbed to do the msq, caught up, did all the normal raids in duty finder, and didn't bother with savages because I already knew that it was a pointless experience.

I just want to play the game without cheaters. It's that simple. I have zero tolerance for people cheating and the game is pointless if they are able to be as prevalent as they are. It's not hard to find or create groups for savage content in this game, it is hard to avoid cheaters though.

Keep coping and lying about the extent of how much you cheat though, keep using your disability as an excuse for cheating. I have a disability too and I would never use it as an excuse to cheat. You make me sick to my stomach when you talk about your disability being a justification for cheating is what it really is.

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Originally Posted by Elkanah

To sum it up:
It took 18 pages to figure out that you cant play your job well enough, and cant find a group because of play (being that you're not actually trying to learn the ins and outs of your job for said endgame content) and the meta behind your job.

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If you really think you need to know the meta to participate in savage content, I feel bad for you.