Are We Really At The Point We Consider The Classic Relic Steps Engaging And "Fun"?

I did the first 2 relics for my WHM. LOVED it. Did it in chunks.

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Originally Posted by Bonoki

Whenever I talk about the official forums to friends or random people I meet within the game, they always seemed surprised or shocked that I interact on here. It's always, "Who actually uses the forums?", "That place is so toxic", "It's just a bunch of unhappy crybabies in an echo chamber who doesn't represent what I really think." "They think they know what they are talking about but they really do not." It's just always forum hate and they really don't care what I have to say that I have seen posted on these forums.

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Pretty much my friends' reaction too. They've never visit forum, but it's always a sign of disgust whenever I bring it up.

It's like official forum has quite the notoriety.

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Originally Posted by Aword3213

Pretty much my friends' reaction too. They've never visit forum, but it's always a sign of disgust whenever I bring it up.

It's like official forum has quite the notoriety.

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Cant blame them when there's hostility thrown constantly, from every side, in between the few grounded posts and threads that offer criticism without being toxic.

But this is just forum culture in general, especially when it comes to MMOs. The majority of the userbase isnt going to come here to play or be nice; they're coming here to vent.

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Originally Posted by Raven2014

That's mostly the ingame community where the strict rule "be nice or else" are enforced. The forums is basically the lawless wild west.

If anyone ever want to conduct a social experiment on the necessity of law and order, they can just cite the contrast between ingame and the forum of FF14 as a source.


Also regarding the OP: not really.

- If they gonna bring back the grind of 2.0 and 3.0 for relic, then I prefer just the current method even it's as boring as it is.
- If they gonna bring back the grind of 4.0 and 5.0, then yes please.

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The thing is that it's not just the official forums. There's a massive difference of behavior between reddit, the forums, discords, twitter and in-game. The behavior outside of the game is incredibly awful, even if the opinions and beliefs of people within each platform or community differs. People on the official reddit actually doxed a couple of users over disagreements(as in they shifted through reddit profiles and pieced together information, not that the profile had that information together publicly).

I already got all of the current EW relics on my main. Now I am just farming materials for Anima weapons as something to do on the side since I am trying to finish up some grand company turn in achievements. (Yes, I am bored.)

Not gonna lie, it would had been okay for me if they made some FATE farming in either of the ShB or EW zones. That way farming bi-color gemstones for their rewards in each their shops would have more incentive. I know not everyone likes FATEs; but I wouldn't recommend steps like in the older relics where particular FATEs have to be farmed; just particular zones instead. i.e: Any 10 FATEs in Lakeland. This is the only way I would think they would be tolerable. You get zone rewards while progressing a relic step. I always wondered if people would be down for that, but maybe its just me and other completionists. -shrugs-

I think one of the biggest offenders (especially of HW) is just how Poetics intensive they are.

A HW relic alone requires:

• 10x Unidentified Ore, Shell, Bone, and Seeds - 150 poetics each, 6000 total. Can also get these from ARR/HW beast tribes.
• 5x Aether Oil - 350 poetics each, 1750 total. This is the easiest way to get these
• 60-80x Umbrite - 75 poetics each, 4500-6000 total. This is the only way to get these.
• 60-80x Crystal Sand - 225 poetics for 5x Thavnarian Mist + 5x Superior Enchanted Ink to trade for 2 sand; 6750-9000 poetics total.
• 50x Singing Cluster - 40 poetics each, 2000 total. Can easily grab 18/week + 1/day from quests in Idyllshire.
• 15x Pneumite - 100 poetics each, 1500 total. Can also buy for 4000 GC seals each.
• 1x Archaic Enchanted Ink - 500 poetics. This is the only way to get this.

26,750 poetics for a single relic.

THAT.IS.INSANTIY

There's zero reason why those numbers, and that's all they are numbers can't be adjusted to a more manageable level.

I dont think ANY relic step is "engaging" or "Fun"
But maybe my metric and definition is Different...since I thought Bozja was fun.
But old Arr or HW and Eureka...I did them...maybe that counts as engagement regardless...but I didnt find Any Step ""Fun""

I sure as heck didnt find it fun to grind Alexander for the Density Grind....but I did it anyway just because I wanted my Relic Weapon that was just gonna become Glamor.
I did it for the reward, but I didnt find the process fun.
Eh

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

I dont think ANY relic step is "engaging" or "Fun"
But maybe my metric and definition is Different...since I thought Bozja was fun.
But old Arr or HW and Eureka...I did them...maybe that counts as engagement regardless...but I didnt find Any Step ""Fun""

I sure as heck didnt find it fun to grind Alexander for the Density Grind....but I did it anyway just because I wanted my Relic Weapon that was just gonna become Glamor.
I did it for the reward, but I didnt find the process fun.
Eh

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This is sort of where am I'm at with relics and a better way to describe my confusion with people's frustrations with the EW one. I've never felt like any relic was fun to get. Never finished one for StB or ShB because I just couldn't stand the content, but HW and ARR were both a giant chore to get through. The whole idea of a "journey" just seems....pointless to me for something that's just going to be a glam item anyway.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

• 5x Aether Oil - 350 poetics each, 1750 total. This is the easiest way to get these

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Unfortunately with the change to Koh, they removed the alternative aether oil step option and didn't replace it with anything. Poetics is the only way now. The one positive point is that you can buy things ahead of time for future steps as you work on earlier ones.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

There's zero reason why those numbers, and that's all they are numbers can't be adjusted to a more manageable level.

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In saying all that, you get poetics thrown at you left, right and center. Sure, it's a lot of poetics (even if you source some of the stuff through maps, GC seals). But, really, it's not that difficult to accumulate that many poetics.

And, at the time (even with there being alternative methods on some steps), that was the whole point, right? The older relics took time to acquire.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I think one of the strangest aspects of FFXIV's community is the frequent inability for many players to simply accept that personal tastes differ. There's an awful lot of policing in regards to what characters and content players are 'supposed to' like and dislike. A problem that has unfortunately only increased over the years.

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Agreed. It seems to come from everywhere, though. If more people were willing to say "I get some people don't like what I do, so some things for people like them to enjoy and some for people like me to enjoy is probably fine." But whether we talk Healers or SMN or whathaveyou, it's all too often "What you want is harming/killing the game!" when it's not or "What you want is braindead/lazy/bad" when it's just that different people like and enjoy different thinks.

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Originally Posted by Bonoki

Whenever I talk about the official forums to friends or random people I meet within the game, they always seemed surprised or shocked that I interact on here. It's always, "Who actually uses the forums?", "That place is so toxic", "It's just a bunch of unhappy crybabies in an echo chamber who doesn't represent what I really think." "They think they know what they are talking about but they really do not." It's just always forum hate and they really don't care what I have to say that I have seen posted on these forums.

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Originally Posted by Aword3213

Pretty much my friends' reaction too. They've never visit forum, but it's always a sign of disgust whenever I bring it up.

It's like official forum has quite the notoriety.

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Yeah, same. It's a continuous joke on FFXIV mainsub AND FFXIVDiscussion (which does have a more hardcore element) that the official forums are a toxic pit best to be avoided and that the people here are largely an echo chamber who will whine about everything and make constant demands and doomposts.

People in the game who come here tend not to come back. It's one of the chief reasons I think that these forums do not represent the majority of the playerbase in any way.

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Originally Posted by NekoMataMata

The thing is that it's not just the official forums. There's a massive difference of behavior between reddit, the forums, discords, twitter and in-game. The behavior outside of the game is incredibly awful, even if the opinions and beliefs of people within each platform or community differs. People on the official reddit actually doxed a couple of users over disagreements(as in they shifted through reddit profiles and pieced together information, not that the profile had that information together publicly).

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It can be, but isn't in most places. Most of the chill communities (Discords) are fine, the Reddit is generally way less toxic than here even with the upvote/downvote brigading stuff. The behavior about the game here is ridiculously bad. The issue with Reddit and the Mainsub and Balance Discords are that the mods there have effectively absolute power, meaning if they turn on someone, there's literally no recourse and there's no governing body to step in. At least here if the mods were actively targeting people, they probably have some regulations against that that might lead to firings, but with entirely voluntary communities with tin pot dictator mods, it can be pretty bad. But that's not an FFXIV problem, Reddit IN GENERAL has that going on. There are a LOT of subreddits with mods that go full tyrant and play sides, enforcing the rules with an iron fist on people they don't like while giving their side a pass. I once was in a political one (yeah, I know, first mistake), but I literally copied a post from one of the other users on the other political lean and inverted the statement (who was calling who names), and suddenly, banned. I was told my post was racism, and when I pointed out the other post was as well, just with the races swapped AND I was very clearly being sarcastic to show why the other person's argument was bad (because it was literally racist), I was told "just because someone else does something doesn't mean I get to do it"; so when I asked if that person was also going to be banned, I was told it was none of my business, muted so I couldn't EVEN REPLY to them anymore, and banned. The other user, btw, was not. Because the mods agreed with their side.

That's not a FFXIV problem, it's an unregulated moderator problem. Turns out, while many Humans are honorable and just in their exercise of power, many are not, and if you give them a thimble of power, will abuse it.

That isn't an FFXIV problem, it's a general Human/internet/unaccountable moderator problem.