MrHappy State of Endwalker w/ Zepla podcast

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

I am surprised that you do not have your very own youtube channel

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They honestly might have an active Youtube or Twitch channel and simply never advertised it. With as many alts as he has, it wouldn't be the first time a creator has stirred up drama to "react" to. Not that I am accussing them of such behavior. Just stating it would not be shocking should it be the case.

There use to be Twitter profile that was very large in audience that only retweeted the hottest takes they could find from these forums. Crop the text so it would look very out of context, and then repost it on Twitter to rile people up. It was very successful and often had more engagement than anything on these forums.

I really wouldn't doubt that some of the passive aggressive tension created around this place is to farm content off of us.

MrHappy should rebrand as MrDamageControl.

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Originally Posted by CStrife912

Shhhhh they have selective memory or avoid answer and when they answer it’s just to be condescending or passive aggressive but they can outpost you with their alts ;)

Seriously though why do we need posts for every streamers opinion just put it in a big mega thread…this was going to happen once one person spoke up. However I think Zep really has some rose tinted glasses on that I was glad Happy and Sly were like no just no it wasn’t any better back then in certain instances and she was humbled for it, but at least they could see common ground. Good luck getting common ground here lol

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I'd rather have 12 Zepla and Mr Happy threads than OP going back and necrobumping posts from stormblood like he did before.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

I'd rather have 12 Zepla and Mr Happy threads than OP going back and necrobumping posts from stormblood like he did before.

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It would be better if they posted their own thoughts, but know they rag on everyone else's opinions and it's old and boring now.

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Originally Posted by Snorky

It would be better if they posted their own thoughts, but know they rag on everyone else's opinions and it's old and boring now.

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yeah because this forum is very well known for its acceptance of constructive criticism /s

lmao

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Originally Posted by SophiaDL

yeah because this forum is very well known for its acceptance of constructive criticism /s

lmao

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So what is your constructive criticism? Hmmm?

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Originally Posted by Snorky

It would be better if they posted their own thoughts, but know they rag on everyone else's opinions and it's old and boring now.

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It's weird to act like we haven't been the past 10 years.

We saw major influx of players because of influencer marketing, so we know this community is driven by social dependency and parasocial behavior. It's a pretty good way to get you to respond and turn on each other when you've all relied on the constant feelgood feedback of those same influencers, that you now hate.

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Originally Posted by R041

It's weird to act like we haven't been the past 10 years.

We saw major influx of players because of influencer marketing, so we know this community is driven by social dependency and parasocial behavior. It's a pretty good way to get you to respond and turn on each other when you've all relied on the constant feelgood feedback of those same influencers, that you now hate.

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Not “you’ve all” - I predate these influencers and pay little to no attention to them, outside these threads lol.

I didn’t even know Arthas existed in the other thread - which I’m not bothering with as I don’t care. I at least knew who Zepla was tho.

imo we need more Ultimates in the game, 2 isn't enough per expansion, I think we need at least 3 (one in between every raid tier)

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

Not “you’ve all” - I predate these influencers and pay little to no attention to them, outside these threads lol.

I didn’t even know Arthas existed in the other thread - which I’m not bothering with as I don’t care. I at least knew who Zepla was tho.

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Haha yeah that was way too broad. Anyone before 2021 is mostly fine - BUT, I do know that even those of us before the Exodus can and are often heavily influenced by talking heads, because XIV is a group that already have a hard time inviting their friends, and we enjoy the feelgood feedback that influencers provide. After-all, we do sit and praise the big one (Yoshi-P).

Watching Fan Fest kinda had me feeling a weird way, when I saw people meet Yoshi and started crying because of it. I think at that point, when you're acting that way to a Corporate head - The Corpo know they've managed to create an Idol, and we took the bait. Imagine if Blizzard had such a slick and cute idol like Yoshi for WoW, they'd be in the social green. lol


The hypocrisy is funny, 'cause I have a bunch of FF stuff on my bookshelf next to me. (Am I just projecting my own insecurities?)

(Hugs his Yoshi-P body pillow tighter)

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Originally Posted by R041

Haha yeah that was way too broad. Anyone before 2021 is mostly fine - BUT, I do know that even those of us before the Exodus can and are often heavily influenced by talking heads, because XIV is a group that already have a hard time inviting their friends, and we enjoy the feelgood feedback that influencers provide. After-all, we do sit and praise the big one (Yoshi-P).

Watching Fan Fest kinda had me feeling a weird way, when I saw people meet Yoshi and started crying because of it. I think at that point, when you're acting that way to a Corporate head - The Corpo know they've managed to create an Idol, and we took the bait. Imagine if Blizzard had such a slick and cute idol like Yoshi for WoW, they'd be in the social green. lol


The hypocrisy is funny, 'cause I have a bunch of FF stuff on my bookshelf next to me. (Am I just projecting my own insecurities?)

(Hugs his Yoshi-P body pillow tighter)

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I agree your comment applies to some people - especially those who only came to XIV due to Asmongold and follow him around as he changes games lol.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

I agree your comment applies to some people - especially those who only came to XIV due to Asmongold and follow him around as he changes games lol.

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I just don't think the community can grow if a lot of us are stuck in a parasocial feelgood feedback loop. It's like Groundhog Day, nothing ever really changes.

So are people suddenly pretending that the post EW patches have been perfect?

Because thats the language Im seeing of folk who have have such a chip on their shoulder of content creators discussing and criticizing EW post patches.

Just the other day on that Zepla EW video I saw a comment thread of people saying while they agree on post EW being lackluster theyll actually go against what she said just because they dont like her.

What a precious joke. People are now sabotaging their own feedback just because an influencer you dont like shares that same opinion.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

So are people suddenly pretending that the post EW patches have been perfect?

Because thats the language Im seeing of folk who have have such a chip on their shoulder of content creators discussing and criticizing EW post patches.

Just the other day on that Zepla EW video I saw a comment thread of people saying while they agree on post EW being lackluster theyll actually go against what she said just because they dont like her.

What a precious joke. People are now sabotaging their own feedback just because an influencer you dont like shares that same opinion.

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The problem is not the content creators but the people posting it, look I don't watch them or listen to them period. Their opinions don't carry any more weight than any other players opinion. Have a conversation EW wasn't up to some people standards as an expansion fine it's been discussed in many threads. Instead of making a new thread about another content creator keep it to one thread. At this point I think there are people certain people shilling for these content creators because what do you know it generates them money$$$. Just stop thinking this isn't just free advertising for them because that is what it is.

Parasocial relationships with streamers may not control the game but it does absolutely influence the community way more than people give it credit for.

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Originally Posted by Bonoki

Parasocial relationships with streamers may not control the game but it does absolutely influence the community way more than people give it credit for.

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There's absolutely way too much of it for my taste in the community. Streamers are just players, and their feedback is always going to be tinged with their specific circumstances. Of course a streamer who relies on the game for content and plays it all the time wants more to make content from, even if it's not the best, as well as most of them being hardcore raiders who want more raiding content at the expense of more casual content.
I have no doubt as well that the reason so many of them say they enjoy Eureka and seem to hold it up as the peak of content recently is becuase they don't have to worry about underpopulated instances ever, and they play enough that the fact you have to grind for dozens of hours before each zone "gets fun" doesn't faze them.

But their opinions are just the opinions of a single player, it shouldn't carry any more weight than the opinion of other players. What I would worry about is if SE starts to go down the road of other games and starts catering more and more to streamers exclusively.
I saw this with Overwatch 2. Streamers pick a new issue du jour to make videos about and claim blizzard is ignoring, blizzard fixes it, and then for content they have to pick another issue to whine about, sometimes the exact opposite of what they just whined about.
What you end up with is an eternal cycle of people looking for minor problems to exploit for clout and content, and the devs coming behind them to constantly fix the issues they point at. While players without a platform may have content they care about become entirely ignored and anemic, or issues they face ignored for way too long.

The fact that reportedly some issues like MCH on high ping didn't even factor into the dev's thinking till Mr Happy mentioned it to one of them really makes me worried we're already down that rabbit hole.

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Originally Posted by Snorky

The problem is not the content creators but the people posting it, look I don't watch them or listen to them period. Their opinions don't carry any more weight than any other players opinion. Have a conversation EW wasn't up to some people standards as an expansion fine it's been discussed in many threads. Instead of making a new thread about another content creator keep it to one thread. At this point I think there are people certain people shilling for these content creators because what do you know it generates them money$$$. Just stop thinking this isn't just free advertising for them because that is what it is.

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I really dont care about what content creators do. I dont normally go out of my way to watch a lot of them nor do I try to interact with their respective communities.

But when one of them tries to speak an opinion about something that I believe and most of the community also agrees with, the last thing Ill do is to be part of that toxic mindset where you become the contrarian ultimately proving their naysayers that our opinions dont matter because were being doomsayers or whatever term people come up with who criticize FFXIV.

The only thing I care is for the devs to start taking some our feedback a little seriously and thats not going to happen if the community has this awkward war with itself. Its extremely cringe.

In fact Im starting to feel that people trying to derail the actual feedback conversation are purposefully doing this because theyre the actual SE shills.

Bottom line, the post EW patch content has been failing to give some form of meaningful retention without resorting to lazy grindy designs. I want this game to do this shit better because I really enjoy the idea behind IS and Variant and Criterion dungeons. The devs need to put more meat into it especially if theyre boasting how much resources and funds theyre now getting. Its inexcusible.

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Originally Posted by Snorky

Their opinions don't carry any more weight than any other players opinion.

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Except, they do. They demonstrably do.

People have to realize there is no divine authority that intercedes in the world to make every single persons opinion equal, 'valid' or have the same weight.

In reality, your opinion only has power if you can persuade other people that it's true, and content-creators have an incredibly obvious advantage in this respect, as they have a fanbase that is primed to receive and spread their opinion. Of course, there's also the fact that this game allows them to meet directly with its producer and share their concerns.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

Except, they do. They demonstrably do.

People have to realize there is no divine authority that intercedes in the world to make every single persons opinion equal, 'valid' or have the same weight.

In reality, your opinion only has power if you can persuade other people that it's true, and content-creators have an incredibly obvious advantage in this respect, as they have a fanbase that is primed to receive and spread their opinion. Of course, there's also the fact that this game allows them to meet directly with its producer and share their concerns.

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Couldn't have said this any better myself. It is why they host media tours afterall and not just for game reviewers. The streamers basically act as ambassadors for our representation. What they say and think matters because SE will assume their followers feel the same.

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Originally Posted by Bonoki

Couldn't have said this any better myself. It is why they host media tours afterall and not just for game reviewers. The streamers basically act as ambassadors for our representation. What they say and think matters because SE will assume their followers feel the same.

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weather people like it or not it is a very critical part of the games marketing and SE will in fact pay attention if the popular community content creators are not singing the games praises

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Originally Posted by Ivtrix

weather people like it or not it is a very critical part of the games marketing and SE will in fact pay attention if the popular community content creators are not singing the games praises

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It's regrettable as it feels like any nobody can just ramble in front of a camera and if they are likeable enough they can influence a certain segment of the population...but I don't really think traditional "games journalism" and their reviews for influence were any better.

Just think for yourself is a pretty good rule of thumb.

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Originally Posted by Snorky

It would be better if they posted their own thoughts

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There is value in discussing content creator videos that bring up issues or ideas. The only time there isn't, is when the video has no valuable feedback in it (for example, a video of them eating or discussing random dramas that don't relate to the game at all).

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Originally Posted by Snorky

So what is your constructive criticism? Hmmm?

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They post it all the time, to be fair...

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

I saw a comment thread of people saying while they agree on post EW being lackluster theyll actually go against what she said just because they dont like her.

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There are people who do that. I once met a passionate Xeno hater in a raid and they wanted to "not use a strategy" because Xeno made it. Sabotaging the raid because they don't like Xeno.

But it works both ways. On day 1 everyone will load up Xeno and MrHappy on their second monitor and copy their strats, even in a "blind" party.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

Streamers are just players

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I agree, but the reality is that their success makes them visible to Square Enix, who watch their videos. This makes them the most effect way to convey feedback to Square Enix. All their subscribers and Likes suggest a lot of players agree with what they say as well, otherwise they probably wouldn't be where they are.

For evidence of that look at how long issues like the alliance raid item level trick were unnoticed on these forums until MrHappy started reading them.

Also to the people keep saying that content creators are complaining because theres no content to generate money from FFXIV.

Need I remind them that FFXIV was never EVER a highly viewed twitch game for streaming. Really the only burst of activity is when new people stream their first time msq experiences and that only happens once to them. Other than that nobody really watches FFXIV for its endgame or pvp. Sure we had World First Ultimates but funny enough not many people try to stream it due to ahem....proof of 3rd party usage.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

I agree, but the reality is that their success makes them visible to Square Enix, who watch their videos. This makes them the most effect way to convey feedback to Square Enix. All their subscribers and Likes suggest a lot of players agree with what they say as well, otherwise they probably wouldn't be where they are.

For evidence of that look at how long issues like the alliance raid item level trick were unnoticed on these forums until MrHappy started reading them.

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That's fine but like I said, streamers have a pretty big bias. Which means a portion of the playerbase is just unheard pretty frequently. Streamers are always going to advocate for their style of gameplay first, which is hardcore raiding, long grinds, and systems that reward long hours played and lock you into logging in consistently.
That's a pretty annoying situation if your opinions and play style doesn't align 100% with a streamer, basically no one is going to hear any feedback. Considering the devs only really pay attention to the JP forums for general feedback, having to rely on an influencer to agree with you to have your issues potentially filtered up to SE sucks.

Honestly people complain that SE doesn't really care about the middle ground level of player who wants somewhat challenging content but doesn't want to go full hardcore with a static or discord, but why is that?
Look at the streamers, they're either hardcore raiders who just care about savage and ultimate, or they are super casual and just do MSQ then are done. There are very few streamers in that middle ground.
If SE only cares about streamer opinons they're going to basically get the feedback that they need both more balls to the wall hardcore raiding content, and then also more super casual content to do at a slow pace.

Which seems to be the main complaint here, they are moving towards the 2 extremes and leaving the middle bare.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

That's fine but like I said, streamers have a pretty big bias. Which means a portion of the playerbase is just unheard pretty frequently. Streamers are always going to advocate for their style of gameplay first, which is hardcore raiding, long grinds, and systems that reward long hours played and lock you into logging in consistently.
That's a pretty annoying situation if your opinions and play style doesn't align 100% with a streamer, basically no one is going to hear any feedback. Considering the devs only really pay attention to the JP forums for general feedback, having to rely on an influencer to agree with you to have your issues potentially filtered up to SE sucks.

Honestly people complain that SE doesn't really care about the middle ground level of player who wants somewhat challenging content but doesn't want to go full hardcore with a static or discord, but why is that?
Look at the streamers, they're either hardcore raiders who just care about savage and ultimate, or they are super casual and just do MSQ then are done. There are very few streamers in that middle ground.
If SE only cares about streamer opinons they're going to basically get the feedback that they need both more balls to the wall hardcore raiding content, and then also more super casual content to do at a slow pace.

Which seems to be the main complaint here, they are moving towards the 2 extremes and leaving the middle bare.

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With all due respect I did watch the whole video, Zepla's main complaints were Island Sanctuary really missed the mark in being a spreadsheet simulator, she expected more sim elements like actual consideration for what you have to feed the animals or more to do with minions then just setting them out to run around. Mr. Happy kept citing the relic and just lack of rewards for content as the issue for Endwalker. Sly was pretty neutral all throughout and did note the thriving community events if the game is lacking stuff for you.

Funny enough the most interesting part is they all picked the "worst expansion" and all had different answers. Zepla is obviously Endwalker but admits that she would agree with Mr.Happy's pick of Heavensward had she not been a new player at the time upon hearing his logic behind picking Heavensward of two terrible raid tiers, terrible relic steps, and Diadem was such a failure it had to be reworked again in a later expansion. Sly picked Stormblood as the worst with little reason given. They all came to a conclusion that Endwalker really sucks if you are a veteran player, especially one who did all content from past expansions you wanted in the ShB Covid delay era. It is a good expansion if you are newer however as all those old things still have some life to them and thus the relative lack of Endwalker's lasting content wouldn't matter.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

That's fine but like I said, streamers have a pretty big bias. Which means a portion of the playerbase is just unheard pretty frequently. Streamers are always going to advocate for their style of gameplay first

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That depends on the content creator, but I think many of them know their role as influencers and take being objective and seeing all sides seriously.

I've occasionally seen MrHappy slip into that "hardcore raiding" bias, but he really, really tries to consider all sides and he's really good at it, probably even the best.

Asmongold, despite his reputation, understands the importance of all sections of the playerbase - hardcore, midcore and casual and the associated content made for them.

Zepla did a good job of acknowledging all the different sections of the playerbase in her recent videos as well.

I could go on. I think they are usually pretty smart and understand that all the different sections of the playerbase are important to create a strong ecosystem, but I'm sure there are exceptions or at least they act like they are an exception for entertainment reasons.

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which is hardcore raiding, long grinds, and systems that reward long hours played and lock you into logging in consistently.

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That's one of the things MrHappy has clearly contended with. He does do everything on day 1 if he can, but I've seen times where he has had to reluctantly accept many players are not like that and don't rush through it 16 hours a day. It can be hard to see things from others' perspective, but I'm glad that he does.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

No, there wasn't any nuance there. If anything you just tried to extend your absurd comment to even more people who don't act anything like your hyperbolic post.

Nuance is understanding that people can also be happy with the game and still think aspects can be improved.

Your post is just an attempt to insult others, and there no nuance whatsoever. Waiting on these imaginary people who post that the game can't improve in any way.

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If you think that no one has posted something like that, then I'm not late for it so my comment still stands.

This is what happens when you're emotional and reply, the context goes completely over your head, lol