Too strict in-game communication rules

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Originally Posted by raelgun

Thing is, people say FF14 community is nice, but thats not true, the only reason why you don't get the public and this is the important part, public vitriol is because of the TOS.

TOS doesn't create a nice community, this playerbase is mostly a suppressed angsty vitriol community.

Is nice by actual inwards core or something thats suppressed to make it seem like it?

You know they actually make horror movies thats actually not that far off from the FF14 playerbase scenario come to think of it.

Considering how prevalent the sexual harassment between players in this game is, I'd rate actually this is a crude playerbase.

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I dunno what to say, maybe try a different server or region? Different regions seem to have different common sense/ethics/manners regarding online play and perhaps you are (unfortunately) in a bad one.

In game I have had maaaaybe 5 bad experiences in my nearly 10 years of play. On these English Forums? Man, trolls be out daily.

So, broadly speaking the FFXIV game FOSTERS a nice community, but if the region you are in or particular mix of peeps on your server stink, it’s not on FFXIV to fix that.

Jeeqbit’s post summed it up nicely.

I've always been of the opinion that online games should come with an opt-out censor, and then nothing beyond that. Once someone disables it everything is on the table, and the only response GMs should have is an automated "Turn your profanity filter back on lol." message and ticket closure.

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Originally Posted by Limecat

I've always been of the opinion that online games should come with an opt-out censor, and then nothing beyond that. Once someone disables it everything is on the table, and the only response GMs should have is an automated "Turn your profanity filter back on lol." message and ticket closure.

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How the world should be.

The profanity censor is there for a reason.

I mean you'd think with a profanity filter, that they wouldn't issue account warnings or penalties for swearing, especially in private company. Yet one of my FC members was slapped with an account warning for swearing in our housing ward way back when we were still on primal. According to them, they would not even consider the context of the conversation they swore in. To my knowledge I know of no other MMO that would issue account penalties for such a non-issue. Of course Limecats suggestion should be the common sense approach they should take, but they won't take.

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Originally Posted by Limecat

I've always been of the opinion that online games should come with an opt-out censor, and then nothing beyond that. Once someone disables it everything is on the table, and the only response GMs should have is an automated "Turn your profanity filter back on lol." message and ticket closure.

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The funniest thing is, the game starts you off with a profanity censor that is on by default. But people have been reported and given account strikes for vulgarity. So basically... someone went through the steps to turn their profanity filter off... and then got mad when they saw profanity, reported the person spitting it, and the GMs were like "yeah seems legit to me" lmao

edit: Didn't even read the post above mine before I posted, but see, yeah. This stuff actually happens. The whole system feels designed for people who go out of their way to get offended over nothing.

I can remember how Blizzard agents would respond in their forums on the subject. They would say that profanity is against the Terms of Service. The profanity filter does not exist to allow players to use profanity. It exists so those who don't want to be exposed (or parents who don't want their children exposed) aren't affected by a player's loss of self-control.

I would guess that SE's stance is more or less the same.

As I said earlier, it really shouldn't be that much of a concern to anyone as long as they aren't excessive in using it. It would take someone opening a ticket with the GMs, which isn't likely considering how annoying the ticket system is to use (unless more than the profanity is being reported). The GM would then have to decide that the use was was worth taking action against the player's account.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

I can remember how Blizzard agents would respond in their forums on the subject. They would say that profanity is against the Terms of Service. The profanity filter does not exist to allow players to use profanity. It exists so those who don't want to be exposed (or parents who don't want their children exposed) aren't affected by a player's loss of self-control.

I would guess that SE's stance is more or less the same.

As I said earlier, it really shouldn't be that much of a concern to anyone as long as they aren't excessive in using it. It would take someone opening a ticket with the GMs, which isn't likely considering how annoying the ticket system is to use (unless more than the profanity is being reported). The GM would then have to decide that the use was was worth taking action against the player's account.

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Blizzard forums are much more heavily moderated than whatever clownshow we have here. It is not tolerated. If their moderators don't clean it up, the community council will.

WoW uses mass reporting to deal with chat related incidents, and the ticket system by extension is also largely an automated service, which doesn't really work at all. Getting a real person to respond to a ticket, is rare.

Context of conversations matters, anyone can sit in Limsa and be petty and report anyone who uses a curse word in say chat, even if by accident, the context never seems to matter to the XIV GM's except in the severity of punishment.

Almost as if people forget common sense in online games.

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Originally Posted by Ravenblade1979

Almost as if people forget common sense

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Could've left it off here, really.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

Could've left it off here, really.

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Can I eat this "common sense"? Sounds hard. Might have to chew on it a bit.

Well seen people in frontline calling sayign everyone is bad... and then at the end of the match that person(s) is actually not good at all for self....

I don't got an issue if a person like that get reported for rude and simply bad behaviour and even worse, not able to back up any justification about it either.

Most of the people that complain about it is bad, they get reported, they have been in contact with a GM who told them not to be like that or got suspended for a few days I give zero stuff for.

And the reasons is simple enough about it all.

EDIT:

I have been here 7 years playing this game, I haven't changed anyway that I talk and chat inside the game, I however DO KNOW, how to behave and act towards others, and those times I slightly by accident overstepped, I went to the person and told that what I did was wrong.

It is not very difficult to be nice and polite, with a bit of a sting now and then, but not a sting in a demeaning, dismissing or in whatever rude way.

There is other live people behind these screens, and the ToS serve to protect those people from actual bad behaviour and language aimed towards them.

The few times I've seen people doing something wrong in an instance run, I don't point that person out for failing. Instead, I just say something like: "When X happens, please do Y".

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Originally Posted by SamSmoot

The few times I've seen people doing something wrong in an instance run, I don't point that person out for failing. Instead, I just say something like: "When X happens, please do Y".

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Why do we all need to coddle the people who fail?

"Yes little jimmy you didn't fail it's just that if X happens it would be awesome if you do Y!!! Hearts and kisses kisses"

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Originally Posted by Aaros

Why do we all need to coddle the people who fail?

"Yes little jimmy you didn't fail it's just that if X happens it would be awesome if you do Y!!! Hearts and kisses kisses"

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Why do people need to act like jerks?

It's a game played for fun. Not everyone has the same skill potential, many for reasons outside of their control such as medical problems.

There are polite ways to handle issues that arise.

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Originally Posted by Aaros

Why do we all need to coddle the people who fail?

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Because the game needs to be an ultra comfy safe space so that the people who don't even try can feel like they're good at the game when they clearly aren't by any objective standard. Because putting in genuine effort to try and improve at games is obviously a relic of the past and anyone who thinks differently is a jerk. Obviously.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Why do people need to act like jerks?

It's a game played for fun. Not everyone has the same skill potential, many for reasons outside of their control such as medical problems.

There are polite ways to handle issues that arise.

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Lol 140% of the time they don't have any medical problems they're just lazy

i mean i've been warned for getting into an argument w/ some1 in my group cuz he got mad that i rescued him out of an aoe so um.. yea

If you feel that you need to censor yourself to not being banned, maybe you should check why. Unless you directly insult someone, admit you are using 3rd party tools or cheats, you will not get banned. I've playing since release and not a single GM told me anything.

Some people thinks that they are allowed to be rude on other players without consequences because they are "right". There are plenty of ways to communicate without being disrespectful. Some of you think that telling someone "Your DPS is shit" or "You play like shit" or "Your're a noob" is perfectly acceptable, but think twice and you will realize it is not. If you can't communicate without being rude or recurring to personal attacks or whatever, then the problem is you, not the rules.

Also people here manipulates a lot the message. They say things in game like "You are stupid noobs, you don´t know the mechanics works like this?" Then they come this forum or reddit or whatever and tell you "I got an account suspension because I explained the mechanics! Bad GM!". No, you got suspended for insulting, not for explaining. I've been explaining mechanics all my life in this game an no one banned me for a single minute.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Why do people need to act like jerks?

It's a game played for fun. Not everyone has the same skill potential, many for reasons outside of their control such as medical problems.

There are polite ways to handle issues that arise.

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Stop trying to turn this game into a complete safespace, or go with other people that think the same way you do, I played WoW for over 14 years, I was told I was doing things wrong, that my DPS was terrible, and I took a lesson from that and improved, and got better at the game at the risk of getting kicked as it was in "high end content", which is normal, either I "git gud" or I can leave and go do raid finder, who am I to hold people back because I am failing at what I'm doing ? Also lol at the medical problems excuse, give me a break

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Originally Posted by Aaros

Why do we all need to coddle the people who fail?

"Yes little jimmy you didn't fail it's just that if X happens it would be awesome if you do Y!!! Hearts and kisses kisses"

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Because some people's skin is paper thin. I've had people instantly leave after neutrally worded word of advice after they wiped party twice.

We're at the point of diminishing returns, further policing will just make people beware of any talking at all, and you can never truly silence toxicity. Ban knifes, people will kill each other with stones. Ban stones, people will strangle each other. Only way how to stop this entirely is to imprison everyone in their own cell.

I'm saying silencing specifically, because if you are repeatedly doing terrible, people will think that you're dumb. Just because they don't say it, doesn't mean they don't think it. This game doesn't cultivate toxicity-free people, it cultivates people that are afraid to speak their mind because of risk of ban.

ITT: Turns out that toxic players are entitled and lack basic human empathy. Maybe we should coddle them because they have psychological problems?

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Originally Posted by ChonkGoblinSuprem

ITT: Turns out that toxic players are entitled and lack basic human empathy. Maybe we should coddle them because they have psychological problems?

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Turns out that people that are underperforming/playing badly are entitled and lack basic human empathy, maybe we should coddle them because they cant accept criticism and refuse to get better, but they think they should be catered to, they also think they are entitled to wasting everyone's time by not improving their skills and not accepting any advice.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

It's more so to avoid needless chat drama even though I believe having to walk on eggshells with even trying to express a negative statement is very silly and dumb for it to be grounds for punishment.

But it can be done, so instead of saying to someone "Your strat is bad". If you word it out with "let's rethink the strat" then it would still convey the actual need to do what you wanted without it being just a simple callout.

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Want to give them a little pat on the head too ? And tell them good job and that they did well and at least tried ? Maybe a little kiss on the forehead too

It's more so to avoid needless chat drama even though I believe having to walk on eggshells with even trying to express a negative statement is very silly and dumb for it to be grounds for punishment.

But it can be done, so instead of saying to someone "Your strat is bad". If you word it out with "let's rethink the strat" then it would still convey the actual need to do what you wanted without it being just a simple callout.

Guys you should totally be trying to speed run Satasha with a bunch of strangers. If you don’t take The Copperbelt Mines seriously, we can’t even trust you in the serious business of MMO raiding!

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Originally Posted by ChonkGoblinSuprem

Guys you should totally be trying to speed run Satasha with a bunch of strangers. If you don’t take The Copperbelt Mines seriously, we can’t even trust you in the serious business of MMO raiding!

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Sastasha Mythic+ when Square Enix

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Originally Posted by ChonkGoblinSuprem

Guys you should totally be trying to speed run Satasha with a bunch of strangers. If you don’t take The Copperbelt Mines seriously, we can’t even trust you in the serious business of MMO raiding!

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As oppsed to what?

Tanking 1 unit mobs and after each pull, stopping to say "are you alright Timmy?" "Feel anxiety? i can tank slower"?

New players probably want to do the story asap, so to stop and smell the flowers for over 100 min, is just a timewaste. Satasha is not a amazing dungeon where you want to stop and examine it, its a linear corridor, you do it to be done with it, same with all the new players.

The Cutscenes in Satasha has no point in the story, its just a camera wooshing though the entire dungeon, so id say i might not talk for everyone but the people ive played with just wanted it over with, and was happy with the fast progress and not staying in the dreaded dungeon for way too long.

When i was a new player, i just wanted satasha done and over with cause i would be able to progress the story if i did.

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Originally Posted by Loke48

New players probably want to do the story asap

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No, there are lots of different types of players. Some want to rush to endgame to do the max level raids, but some of them want to chill, take their time and spend months or years absorbing themselves in the story or the social environment. Which means they are very prepared to spend 100 minutes in Sastasha and every dungeon after that.

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Satasha is not a amazing dungeon where you want to stop and examine it, its a linear corridor

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That's not true. Sastasha is one of the ARR dungeons that has lots of branching routes. Just every tank skips past those so you feel like it's linear. One of the routes you can go to has a part where you free some female prisoners and learn that they "couldn't stand another night in the deckhand's quarters". If you understand what that means, Sastasha is a lot more interesting than you seem to think.

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When i was a new player, i just wanted satasha done and over with cause i would be able to progress the story if i did.

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I just wanted to absorb the story and take my time and for it to last forever. Really depends if you joined the game to enjoy yourself, or if you joined specifically for max level raids and are trying to rush. There is a good mix of different people doing MSQ.

I’d take FF14’s community over the toxic fest of EverQuest’s any day.

Jeeqbit, i certainly hope if your willing to spend 100 minutes looking at copypasted content, that you have your own dedicated group, cause im sure not many players would like having their time wasted.

Satstasha IS a linear corridor, unless you mean the optiional content, then no, you cant "skip" anything or take another path.

Absorbing the story is intressting and all, but not at the expense of player time. If you want to slowly progress the story, thats on you, but not in a active dungeon, and not in matchmaking.

Satasha is rushed through cause imo, its not a very good dungeon, it comes from the 2.0 launch days, and some dungeons from ARR arent well thought out.

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Originally Posted by Loke48

cause im sure not many players would like having their time wasted.

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Plenty of people are fine taking their time when they are new to the game. It is the veteran players that don't like having their time wasted. This is because they've seen it all before and they just want to get their roulette done or grind their tomestones.

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Satstasha IS a linear corridor

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There are other routes you can go in, but it's easy to forget this if you've never gone through them.

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you cant "skip" anything or take another path.

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You can very much skip freeing the slaves or going to the coffers in other sections.

So a normal dungeon session has 120 minutes, you just said you liked to waste 100 minutes of that alloted time. Wrong its actually 90 minutes which makes wasting 100 minutes of someones time while in a dungeon, worse...
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...8904/image.png

Satasha isnt a "path" its linear, you cant skip slaves in the bossroom, you cant skip going to that boss cause you need a key, you can only skip one optional part of it. If one optional tiny area is "not linear" then i wonder how you see the Shadowbringers dungeons.

Ive gone though Satasha, and ive done it way too many times, you're being disingenuous, specially after this entire thread about being "Too strict in-game communication rules".
Your purposly wasting peoples time, and if they say no, that is a bannable offence thanks to the strict ingame communication rules.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...1590/image.png
I dont think you know the dungeon or people Jeeqbit, cause its neither sprawling, nor do you have plenty of paths to choose from, its litteraly 1 optional way to go though, then you gotta get back to the main path, and then its almot a straight way to the Captain bossroom.

The TOS is fine. Communicating in a dungeon is pretty detrimental anyways since people are usually clicking buttons to do their jobs. That said, I've seen people squeeze in conversation when running from one pull to the next plenty of times without issue.. Also, if you want to chat with folks, there's plenty of people to talk to in the major cities, gold saucer, etc when not in battle. You can even go to those beeskness go brr clubs that people have created. As for giving feedback to a player on their job, or handling mechanics, you're safe as long as you're not rude to them. I've given feedback to people plenty of times and I've never had any interactions with a GM. I've been a part of drama too as that's inevitable when interacting with people.

Every time a post like this is made, it draws giant red target signs on the backs of people who don't understand that they have low social skills and are horrible to be around. Every time you hear a story of someone getting actioned because of these rules they always turn out to be the bad guy in the situation. People need to learn they are not the main character and there is consequences for being a raging baby in a video game.

I've been playing this game for 8 years and not a single time have I gotten actioned. I tell people what to do constantly. I've even gotten into very heated disagreements with people in DF/PF. I've told people to go back to learning parties and not join clear ready groups. I've called someone a griefer and said good luck finding another DSR PF group because no one likes them. I despise going through dungeons with single-pull tanks and if they refuse to pull more after I ask I leave.

You cannot get banned for giving advice or disagreeing/disliking someone. You can get banned for being an insufferable asshole while doing it.

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Originally Posted by RosaliaDLB

Turns out that people that are underperforming/playing badly are entitled and lack basic human empathy, maybe we should coddle them because they cant accept criticism and refuse to get better, but they think they should be catered to, they also think they are entitled to wasting everyone's time by not improving their skills and not accepting any advice.



Want to give them a little pat on the head too ? And tell them good job and that they did well and at least tried ? Maybe a little kiss on the forehead too

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I'll take that head pat and kiss on the forehead. Haha, joke aside, agreed on not coddling players that want to hold the rest of the team back.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

Plenty of people are fine taking their time when they are new to the game. It is the veteran players that don't like having their time wasted. This is because they've seen it all before and they just want to get their roulette done or grind their tomestones.

There are other routes you can go in, but it's easy to forget this if you've never gone through them.

You can very much skip freeing the slaves or going to the coffers in other sections.

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I actually did not know there were other things to explore until I did it with Duty support (to see how it worked before my group terrified sister joined). When I suddenly didn't have group pushing me in a set path I discovered there is a bunch of other stuff to see and if I remember correctly more loot to be had as well.

You mean this room?

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...1590/image.png

Those and other nooks and crannies. For example I did not know about the note that tells you which thing to pick for the coeurl boss because no one had bothered with it in groups. I also did not know about the loot chest in the room with the clams since everyone skips it.

I have taken to either going back and soloing old dungeons to explore it all and read the notes or doing them with duty support so I can take my time exploring.

Honestly if someone in the group is a first time in there (and its easy to tell who really IS a first timer) I am more than willing to slow down and let them see the sights. Then again I have been playing for 4.5 years and am only halfway through Shadowbringers. I take my time and enjoy the journey.

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Then again I have been playing for 4.5 years and am only halfway through Shadowbringers.

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I'm sorry but what

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Originally Posted by AlexiaD

I'm sorry but what

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It's a 10 year journey, didnt you know? /s

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Originally Posted by Loke48

So a normal dungeon session has 120 minutes, you just said you liked to waste 100 minutes of that alloted time. Wrong its actually 90 minutes which makes wasting 100 minutes of someones time while in a dungeon, worse...

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I didn't say any such thing and you're attributing numbers to me that were originally said by you. The point I was obviously making is that a lot of new players just want to absorb themselves in this new game they are playing and aren't trying to rush through it. Some people might be trying to rush to level 90 to do the raids but many are not.

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If one optional tiny area is "not linear" then i wonder how you see the Shadowbringers dungeons.

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I see them as not having this "optional tiny area" and beside that there are 4 other optional areas visible on your map that you didn't highlight.

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I dont think you know the dungeon or people Jeeqbit

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You obviously don't understand that not all players are the same and that there is also a big difference between how you see things as a lost new player trying to make sense of FF14 and how you see things when you are an impatient veteran player trying to rush through a dungeon because you've already done it before.