why the crystal tower raids are still part of the roulette?

ITs why i never run that roulett, as its only CT 99% the time and i just refuse that >_>

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

It's WoD. Looking away from the Angry Meatball is the hardest mechanic left, followed by chaining the doggo.

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The adds inside Cerberus' belly need to be tanked, or there needs to be at least one on-point healer or the DPS might find themselves... digested. There are also at least a couple of players who forget, or don't know they need to be minimized before stepping into the gastric fluid. Always a hoot. Cloud of Darkness used to one-shot players with her particle beam with the exception of tanks, and I wish that was still a thing.

But yeah, WoD is a good example of how alliance raids should be at the very least in terms of difficulty and time to clear. If the devs got the first two on par with WoD, ilv cheesing goes out the door.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

They just need to increase the minimum Item Level requirement so that it scales based on which expansion you're in. E.g., if you are 50-59, the minimum item level is 70, if you're 60-69 then the minimum item level becomes 205, if you're 70-79 then it becomes 335, and if you're 80-89 then it becomes 465. This way you cannot shaft your gear without making the roulette inaccessible. This I believe would resolve the problem of people shafting their Item level, and the rewards can be increased accordingly.

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This will only take care of the naked queues. There is still the issue that it only takes one player below level 60 that will force everyone into a CT raid, and the frequency that this happens is extremely high. In order to take care of this, the alliance raids need to be split up, which is why I suggested 50/60, 70/80, and current. This will also help those who want/need to do the later raids such as Ivalice or Nier get in there with a lot less wait time when queuing for them specifically.

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Furthermore, they do need to rework the scaling with these ARR raids, after all the changes we've had, they're simply wet noodles. Furthermore, they really need to look into resistance weapons relics. These are by far the most abysmally designed relic series we've had thus far, in this regard. Attach loathsome memories to the roulette itself as opposed to a particular series of alliance raids, e.g., Crystal Tower (Which they are) - This just exacerbates the issue, and quite significantly.

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Agreed. They really should utilize the newer raids when it comes to relic weapons. They've used Ivalice for Moogle Tomes, and it increases the frequency they come up in roulettes without question. All casual content should hit as hard as the day they it was released. This content is not intended to block players, so there is little to no reason for it to become braindead as time passes. Content is more fun for the majority of the playerbase when there is a level of threat. If you can skate through it; it sucks.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

It's WoD. Looking away from the Angry Meatball is the hardest mechanic left, followed by chaining the doggo.

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The one I see trip people up the most are the tethered circles. They don't get out and then everyone dies. Even if on a second run someone explains to look away from Mortal Gaze, the raid just dies to the tethers again. Also ignoring the adds. It doesn't help that when there are multiple wipes, the impatient ones won't wait a second for someone like me to explain the one or two things hanging us up.

I see people forget to mini on Cerberus all the time or everyone is so wild about going inside the belly that the adds kill the healers left outside.

Also see raids ignore the meteors near the end of CoD fight and just wipe us all.

remove nier from roulette

They are an alliance raid. So they go in the alliance raid roulette. Don't like it, don't do them.

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Originally Posted by DragonFlyy

They are an alliance raid. So they go in the alliance raid roulette. Don't like it, don't do them.

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I like alliance roulette. I am tired of CT.
Last time I've seen weeping city of mhach was half a year ago. I get CT in my roulettes literally every day. It's not really a roulette when you know you'll get CT with 99% chance because people abuse item level queue.

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Originally Posted by DragonFlyy

They are an alliance raid. So they go in the alliance raid roulette. Don't like it, don't do them.

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i don't like them i like the other that never come up.

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Originally Posted by magitekLuna

i don't like them i like the other that never come up.

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Im sry we live in a world u not give everything so u going to have to suck it up buttercup

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Originally Posted by Slayer25c

Im sry we live in a world u not give everything so u going to have to suck it up buttercup

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what it have to do here???
there is a system that named ROULETTE that in now way shape or form works as one. go play a real roulette and see how often you will get the same 1 number. it be no where close to 99%. if it is that called rigged.
the problem is there 17 raids and we playing only 1. so there a need to make Shure all getting the same share of runs or remake the other 14 so people will want to do them as apparently this full on buttercup comunity of afkers dont want to play any thing that 1min longer and "harder"

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Originally Posted by Slayer25c

Im sry we live in a world u not give everything so u going to have to suck it up buttercup

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Ah but the CHEATERS who CHEAT for braindead easy roulett do get it, yes?

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Originally Posted by magitekLuna

what it have to do here???
there is a system that named ROULETTE that in now way shape or form works as one. go play a real roulette and see how often you will get the same 1 number. it be no where close to 99%. if it is that called rigged.
the problem is there 17 raids and we playing only 1. so there a need to make Shure all getting the same share of runs or remake the other 14 so people will want to do them as apparently this full on buttercup comunity of afkers dont want to play any thing that 1min longer and "harder"

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The thing is, different people have different experiences. Maybe I'm just lucky, maybe someone else is just unlucky. But I find I still get a rather nice spread of roulettes. The CT ones might eek out the "plurality" award, but they're nowhere near the majority for me.

Recently, when I've gotten a Crystal Tower raid in the Alliance Raid roulette, either there was a bonus because it was someone's first time or there was at least one person on a job under Lv.60.

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Originally Posted by Striker44

The thing is, different people have different experiences. Maybe I'm just lucky, maybe someone else is just unlucky. But I find I still get a rather nice spread of roulettes. The CT ones might eek out the "plurality" award, but they're nowhere near the majority for me.

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so you will say here that CT is not the one raids you get the most?

Yes I decrease my ilvl to get Crystal Tower.

Fight me nerds.

:cool:

for the ivl thing, I suggest they add in a reader that says if you have x ilvl in your inventory/armory for whatever lets say your max you have for the job is 375 it becomes permently readable as 375 with the equipment in inventory, there you go

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Originally Posted by Striker44

The thing is, different people have different experiences. Maybe I'm just lucky, maybe someone else is just unlucky. But I find I still get a rather nice spread of roulettes. The CT ones might eek out the "plurality" award, but they're nowhere near the majority for me.

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Same, but we're both on Aether and I think one or two others also on Aether have reported similar experiences. I play in Eastern prime time mostly and usually choose the AiN role and I get a variety. Minus a couple weeks ago when I got Nier every single day for two weeks XD

Keep seeing Orbonne pop up. Not bad since I like that one. Just not sure what's the catalyst for that specific one.

Aether is also getting a LOT of folks from Dynamis. Nine times out of ten when I do get CT, there's a newbie bonus and it's someone from Dynamis.

This thread has a lot of complaint about iLvl cheesing, but what about when you get legitimate runs? like look at my run from yesterday...

https://i.imgur.com/SeZDFZv.png

Literally a third of the raid were new players, I was legitimately shocked when I saw that many achievements pop up, surely this is fair, and nobody should complaint about runs like this?

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Originally Posted by VeyaAkemi

This thread has a lot of complaint about iLvl cheesing, but what about when you get legitimate runs? like look at my run from yesterday...

https://i.imgur.com/SeZDFZv.png

Literally a third of the raid were new players, I was legitimately shocked when I saw that many achievements pop up, surely this is fair, and nobody should complaint about runs like this?

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They'll still complain with some bs that Dynamis shouldn't come over to get their MSQ done or something. Alliance Roulette is one of the ones that is still a bit slow over there. Most other roulettes I've seen pop fairly quickly up to SB level since I'm not at endgame yet. I don't do PvP so can't speak on that one.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

They'll still complain with some bs that Dynamis shouldn't come over to get their MSQ done or something.

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This was done *in* Dynamis, I am on Marilith myself, and I was doing Atma farm(12x9 is a goddamn grind...) so I figured I could afford to wait the que and decided to not hop over, the run was fairly rough too, we got dangerously close to wiping on Behemoth, including no Tank picking up the armor mob and leading to it breaking the rock I was hiding behind about half a second before meteor snapshot, which sure is... interesting to see happen.

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Originally Posted by VeyaAkemi

This was done *in* Dynamis, I am on Marilith myself, and I was doing Atma farm(12x9 is a goddamn grind...) so I figured I could afford to wait the que and decided to not hop over, the run was fairly rough too, we got dangerously close to wiping on Behemoth, including no Tank picking up the armor mob and leading to it breaking the rock I was hiding behind about half a second before meteor snapshot, which sure is... interesting to see happen.

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We did wipe on behemoth on my alt's clear. I was MT. OTs were apparently both out in Narnia. By the time I could get a second to notice and start trying to get the giant under control and deal with the boss it had deleted the rock most people were hiding behind. We got it the second time since I saw I was going to have to grab big guy myself. Pretty sure they were trolling a bit. Provoking from behind so bosses turned and when I dialed it back to let them have it (I'm not about to get dragged into a provoke war) they'd let it come back to me, then voke again. So unfortunately even Dynamis isn't immune to people who troll CT.

I only have CT so far on my alt. Just got into SB and was working on Alex before Void Ark while doing MSQ around it. Takes a bit to get into specific Alex instances even with all three roles at my disposal. I would imagine there are a fair number on Dynamis still who only have CT or aren't high enough yet for anything else.

When I am only collecting tomestones, then I am happy about CT.

But in every other case I am happy when something else pops. Especially about Nier raids, because they feel more like an alliance should feel, and they have interesting glamour. : )

I got Nier 2-3 more times than CT this week and that's not counting the Ivalice raids (leveling jobs at lvl 80-90 atm). Abandoned Nier 3 every time because it is too bright.

it just is what it is. The raids have item level requirements for a reason and if it forced people in 90 gear to do endwalker raids they wouldn't really be able to function. I would have to assume not everyone queuing is cheating the system and every level 50 person doing it needs to drag along 23 more people since I do get other raids at least a couple times a week

crystal tower are alliance raids. A more reasonable thing to do is add more roulettes like dungeons have so there is more incentive to do various tiers of them

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Originally Posted by Kuroka

Ah but the CHEATERS who CHEAT for braindead easy roulett do get it, yes?

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Lmao I know I got st yesterday those cheaters lol

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

Furthermore, they do need to rework the scaling with these ARR raids, after all the changes we've had, they're simply wet noodles. Furthermore, they really need to look into resistance weapons relics. These are by far the most abysmally designed relic series we've had thus far, in this regard. Attach loathsome memories to the roulette itself as opposed to a particular series of alliance raids, e.g., Crystal Tower (Which they are) - This just exacerbates the issue, and quite significantly.

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I have alts, which will never unlock anything but the CT raid series, because MSQ.

There are new players who are not interested in running old raids (and possibly not even the new ones). And aside from glamours, why should they ever unlock them?

If any of these characters run the roulette, they will never get anything but the CT series.


The only way to make it reasonable is to up the difficulty of CT to be on par with 3.x/4.x, but that is something the devs have said they’d rather not do, as CT could very well be a player’s first time to EVER play with actually other humans in party. It is meant to be baby’s first raid.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

I have alts, which will never unlock anything but the CT raid series, because MSQ.

There are new players who are not interested in running old raids (and possibly not even the new ones). And aside from glamours, why should they ever unlock them?

If any of these characters run the roulette, they will never get anything but the CT series.


The only way to make it reasonable is to up the difficulty of CT to be on par with 3.x/4.x, but that is something the devs have said they’d rather not do, as CT could very well be a player’s first time to EVER play with actually other humans in party. It is meant to be baby’s first raid.

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With all due respect, players shouldn't be disproportionately placed in a particular series of raids in the roulette either, purely because they elected to take, what is quite possibly the most poorly executed decision-making that they've done in a long, long time. Let me posit the other question to you -- Why should people be consistently nigh on placed in the same instance, or a subset of instances time, and time again, and all because SE thought it was a glorious decision to overextend the amount of content tied to the Crystal Tower? Yes, it takes 1 person to force 23 other people into a particular instance, and this becomes a problem when said instances have too much content tied to them.

Your first two opening statements already highlight why it is a very clear issue, and why said decisions were abysmal. One is designed so that it is a requisite for the MSQ, and well the latter part of your statement infers that people do not want to do them, and have only done so on the basis that it is a requirement for the story. [Edit: When it comes to something such as the alliance raids, players should be encouraged to participate across them all, equally.]

There is no universe where their current situation is good wrt alliance raids.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

With all due respect, players shouldn't be disproportionately placed in a particular series of raids in the roulette either, purely because they elected to take, what is quite possibly the most poorly executed decision-making that they've done in a long, long time. Let me posit the other question to you -- Why should people be consistently nigh on placed in the same instance, or a subset of instances time, and time again, and all because SE thought it was a glorious decision to overextend the amount of content tied to the Crystal Tower? Yes, it takes 1 person to force 23 other people into a particular instance, and this becomes a problem when said instances have too much content tied to them.

Your first two opening statements already highlight why it is a very clear issue, and why said decisions were abysmal. One is designed so that it is a requisite for the MSQ, and well the latter part of your statement infers that people do not want to do them, and have only done so on the basis that it is a requirement for the story.

There is no universe where their current situation is good wrt alliance raids.

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Tbf, there's no promise or guarantee when you enter a roulette that you will be provided an even spread of content to run. You deal with the content you're given, and are rewarded for doing so.

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Originally Posted by Iyrnthota

Tbf, there's no promise or guarantee when you enter a roulette that you will be provided an even spread of content to run. You deal with the content you're given, and are rewarded for doing so.

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Yes, you do, and my solution to that is to simply not participate in the roulette in any capacity - I won't even be found doing alliance raid roulette even when the level cap is increased.

This point, however, does not detract from the seriously poor decision-making they've done.

its an Alliance raid set, so it has to stay period does this need to keep going, or does some people have some braincells and just end this pointless debate.

just make the other alliance raids required for msq parts and there you go proplem solved, make a reader for ilvl so people cant lazy the way out proplem fixed. Now can we all stop being stupid?

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why the crystal tower raids are still part of the roulette?

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Why not? I love it.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

Yes, you do, and my solution to that is to simply not participate in the roulette in any capacity - I won't even be found doing alliance raid roulette even when the level cap is increased.

This point, however, does not detract from the seriously poor decision-making they've done.

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People have proposed numerous potential solutions in this thread and others like it across the internet, but so far I've seen no compelling solution that does not cause problems elsewhere.
I would say that their decision making is not poor, but merely not to your liking.

https://i.imgur.com/Vsvn1RK.jpeg

Good week!

:)

*sigh* no signs of braincells I guess

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Originally Posted by Chloe_Saunders

just make the other alliance raids required for msq parts and there you go proplem solved

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I actually am a proponent of making all Alliance Raids(and all Normal Raids) mandatory for MSQ, but it's something that people speak against every time it's suggested.

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Originally Posted by VeyaAkemi

I actually am a proponent of making all Alliance Raids(and all Normal Raids) mandatory for MSQ, but it's something that people speak against every time it's suggested.

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I wouldn't say make them required for MSQ, but make them required for the roulette. As long as your character has a class at level 60, you must have Mhach unlocked, 70 must have Ivalice, and so on until they stop adding alliance raids. Since leveling roulette works on the same principle as what I'm saying(only those duties you are of a sufficient level to access are relevant for the class currently queued as). They would, of course, need to remove the ability to ilvl cheese it.

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Originally Posted by VeyaAkemi

I actually am a proponent of making all Alliance Raids(and all Normal Raids) mandatory for MSQ, but it's something that people speak against every time it's suggested.

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I think my primary objection would be that the rest of them aren't integrated into the main story as much as CT, so they're really more side quests than main story quests.

Nier in particular.

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Originally Posted by Avatre

I wouldn't say make them required for MSQ, but make them required for the roulette. As long as your character has a class at level 60, you must have Mhach unlocked, 70 must have Ivalice, and so on until they stop adding alliance raids. Since leveling roulette works on the same principle as what I'm saying(only those duties you are of a sufficient level to access are relevant for the class currently queued as). They would, of course, need to remove the ability to ilvl cheese it.

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I would say that would be only minimally effective, as it targets only a very niche sub group of people "forcing" CT. That being players queuing into Araid Roulette with a 60+ character who only have CT unlocked.

It will still miss all the people who are 50 - 60 queuing for tomes/xp, or sprouts doing CT first time, which imo are the greater proportion of players.

Similarly I think that ilvl cheesers are also a very small sub-group, and efforts to prevent them would also be minimal.

I don't have any data to back this proportions up mind, just my own personal experiences.

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Originally Posted by Iyrnthota

I think my primary objection would be that the rest of them aren't integrated into the main story as much as CT, so they're really more side quests than main story quests.

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YoshiP has brought up bringing Gaia back into the story before, which would make the Eden raids hyper-relevant to even know who Gaia is, which is a similar case to what happened to CT, so I wonder how they will handle that if that happens.

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Originally Posted by Avatre

I wouldn't say make them required for MSQ, but make them required for the roulette. As long as your character has a class at level 60, you must have Mhach unlocked, 70 must have Ivalice, and so on until they stop adding alliance raids.

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Okay but what about people who can't unlock those raids? it's very very veeeeeeeeeery easy to overlevel past your MSQ level, especially if you start on a New/Preferred Server and get Road to 80, so you can easily be in a position where all jobs you have interest in are level 70+ but you are still mid-HW, so I don't think it's a viable solution...

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Originally Posted by VeyaAkemi

YoshiP has brought up bringing Gaia back into the story before, which would make the Eden raids hyper-relevant to even know who Gaia is, which is a similar case to what happened to CT, so I wonder how they will handle that if that happens.

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Same. I would be kind of up for it tbh.

I do wonder how much more tweaking they'll be doing to the current MSQ though. If 7.0 is going to be a brand new story, and possibly a new "starting point" for new players, part of me wonders if this introduction of the Trust system to all the MSQ dungeons is sort of the last big push to make it as single player friendly as possible before leaving that part of the story alone and focusing entirely on the new stuff.