PLD changes

so I played through a Dungeon with my Endwalker Bunny and I've come to the conclusion that I dislike Divine Might from the 6.3 Patch..
It's a Good Trait but it makes me question.. why do I only get only one free insta Holy Cast after every 1-2-3 Combo or AoE Combo?
Again.. why not gut FoF&Req, turn them into Traits and gg.. now thinking about that with having the Goring Blade Change inmind.. think about it:

• FoF/Req as Traits, giving ya more Power and Instant Casts
• with Goring as Cool Down.. they could use Goring as Confiteor Trigger, so that Goring gives you Confiteor Ready, every Minute
• but then again Why does Expiacion exist!? Ahhh screw it!

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

Can we get 'Stormblood Classic' servers, take me back to the days of Aero3 and Royal Road

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and Kaiten would be back aswell! But then we have the Hagakure over Midare times again ><"

Divine Might is a really cool idea but it's half-baked. It's the cartridge gauge except you can only have one shell. FoF *or* Req has to stay because that's how the game is designed. If we're being really lazy, you'd just copy WAR or GNB and be done with it. I favor copying WAR, myself, because aside from it being too idiot-proof and lacking oGCDs, it's a simple monke brain gameplay experience.

Sheltron/Holy Sheltron removed. Intervention can now be cast on self or on allies for 15% damage reduction (Heart of Stone/Corundum clone.) No resource cost. Cover is a 2 minute cooldown, no resource cost, no changes (still useless in raids but that's fine.)

Oath Gauge renamed to Divine Might gauge. Generate 20 Divine Might from Royal Authority with combo bonus, 10 from Goring Blade with combo bonus. Casting Holy Spirit, Holy Circle, or Clemency will consume 50 Divine Might if available to increase potency and remove cast time. If this would be tricky to program (it sounds tricky), I guess just add some kind of button like Infuriate that simply consumes gauge and applies the effects as a buff? I would prefer to not lose the ability to hardcast those spells, as it is unlikely to affect meaningful gameplay balance but preserves a tiny bit of class flavor and it *is* nice to have the option to potentially save a scuffed normal run by hardcasting a few Clemency.

Goring Blade now applies a 10% damage up buff lasting 30 seconds, stacks to up to 60 seconds. Potency of actions adjusted to compensate. Atonement is removed.
Passage at Arms removed, Divine Veil improved to be equivalent to Shake It Off. Yes, this is a loss of class fantasy but I can't see any practical way of remedying this issue. Wings is useless in most circumstances because of its oddities, but if it were adjusted to be reliable and useful it would result in PLD being the only tank with two separate raidwide mitigation tools, which would present major balance concerns.

Req remains as it is on live, except it turns into Confiteor when activated and it has 25yd range. This is our Inner Release, it's fine as it is on live (aside from requiring a plugin to reduce button bloat), it's one of the only things in this rework that is absolutely done right.

I don't think PLD would need an Infuriate analogue, because we'd have two oGCDs to fiddle with (Spirits/Circle) instead of just one. If it feels too slow/low DPS without Infuriate involved, then you could just increase builders to 30 and 20 respectively and I think it would accomplish the same basic idea of "moar fell cleaves." I don't think Circle of Scorn needs to lose the dot/be changed, because it's a single dot effect and the way that fights are designed tends to mean it gets to run its full duration anyway. Goring Blade dot was the one that kept getting trimmed at bad times.



I'm sure someone familiar with GNB could do this but for GNB copycat instead. I don't understand why they didn't just clone WAR or GNB and be done with it. I wouldn't *like* it, but I would just grumble and accept it because as I said, we *knew* we weren't going to keep the rotation going into this.

Why limit Cover if its useless. Make it a Dance Partner toggle with 3s recast. Put block back on Sheltron/Holy Shieltron but with the bonus mitigation. Turn Bulwark into 50% hp shield on oath gauge. Increase Intervention by another 20% mitigation. Add 10 oath gauge to all combo finishers and 10 oath gauge per 1000 mp cost for spells. Passage of Arms gives 50 oath gauge. Divine Veil has 3 10% hp shield that spreads upon using Clemency/Holy spells, doubles healing potencies, halves mp cost, all spells no cast times. Clemency gives 2 Divine Might when used with Divine Veil. Add a button that reduces Divine Veil recast by 30s at 50 oath gauge cost. Divine Veil turns Clemency into an aoe heal. Cover doubles Clemency heal potency, gives Clemency shield barrier powers, and doubles the shield of Bulwark. Become a true Paladin!

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Originally Posted by Kemeko

Why limit Cover if its useless. Make it a Dance Partner toggle with 3s recast. Put block back on Sheltron/Holy Shieltron but with the bonus mitigation. Turn Bulwark into 50% hp shield on oath gauge. Increase Intervention by another 20% mitigation. Add 10 oath gauge to all combo finishers and 10 oath gauge per 1000 mp cost for spells. Passage of Arms gives 50 oath gauge. Divine Veil has 3 10% hp shield that spreads upon using Clemency/Holy spells, doubles healing potencies, halves mp cost, all spells no cast times. Clemency gives 2 Divine Might when used with Divine Veil. Add a button that reduces Divine Veil recast by 30s at 50 oath gauge cost. Divine Veil turns Clemency into an aoe heal. Cover increases Clemency heal potency. gives Clemency shield barrier powers, and doubles the shield of Bulwark. Become a true Paladin!

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Because if Cover is remotely applicable to raiding then it makes PLD overpowered.

Mitigation among tanks *MUST* be homogenized or it will lead to legitimate "taking anything but this class is griefing" scenarios.

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Originally Posted by Gserpent

I'm sure someone familiar with GNB could do this but for GNB copycat instead. I don't understand why they didn't just clone WAR or GNB and be done with it. I wouldn't *like* it, but I would just grumble and accept it because as I said, we *knew* we weren't going to keep the rotation going into this.

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The (tragically) funny thing is that they are like, a handful of changes from being like GNB.

- Divine Might Stacks to 3
- Gain a stack of divine might when sword oath ends (cartridge every third attack analog and it keeps you from wanting to drop them)
- Goring Blade has AoE falloff to be inline with double down. (Alternatively give it a DoT to be more like sonic break, either is fine).

Then we've got a proper shieldbreaker where it's GNB without as much weaving. Though I still would have preferred that they leave the prior iteration which felt just about perfect at 90, and was pretty serviceable at all levels of content. IDK, I knew I wasn't going to be happy with the rework, but yeah... It's pretty disappointing that it's feels so unfinished.

I'm a filthy casual that doesn't know 'the maths' so forgive the potencyally (:D) dumb question but uhh...now that FoF and Req aren't mutually exclusive, and apparently you'd even want to cast them practically side by side... wouldn't it make more sense to merge them and make Req an upgrade to FoF...?

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Originally Posted by nia_saeli

The (tragically) funny thing is that they are like, a handful of changes from being like GNB.

- Divine Might Stacks to 3
- Gain a stack of divine might when sword oath ends (cartridge every third attack analog and it keeps you from wanting to drop them)
- Goring Blade has AoE falloff to be inline with double down. (Alternatively give it a DoT to be more like sonic break, either is fine).

Then we've got a proper shieldbreaker where it's GNB without as much weaving. Though I still would have preferred that they leave the prior iteration which felt just about perfect at 90, and was pretty serviceable at all levels of content. IDK, I knew I wasn't going to be happy with the rework, but yeah... It's pretty disappointing that it's feels so unfinished.

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It's even better - it's equally a couple steps shy of being WAR. Remove FoF, Goring Blade applies a buff (10% haste in my fantasy world because I like haste way more than 10% more damage, gotta go fast.) Req is a self-buff enables use of Confiteor and Blade spells, Req is replaced by Confiteor/Blades while active (Inner Release.) Oath Gauge removed, replaced with Divine Might Gauge. Royal Authority generates 20 gauge, Goring Blade generates 10 gauge. Holy Spirit, Clemency, and Holy Circle spend gauge, each costing 50; potency of each is adjusted to account for no longer being spammable. Atonement removed. Sheltron removed, Intervention is now 15% mitigation baseline and can be applied to self; does not scale with active effects on self when applied to ally (this is basically Heart of Corundum but there's literally no reason to keep Sheltron and Intervention as separate skills if they would share a cooldown a la Bloodwhetting-Nascent Flash.) You would still need an Infuriate button and the "refund" mechanic for a WAR clone, but I think you could accomplish the same general idea by either increasing base builder amounts (30/20) or by making Circle and Expiciacion generate gauge. Not an *exact* WAR clone, but very close. It sounds pretty decent to play, if you ask me.

For low level stuff, changes I'd make would include: Holy Spirit at 35, Holy Circle at 40, gap closer at 45. Req at level 60, it grants 4 free Holy Spirit, Holy Circle, or Clemency casts at increased potency. It is trait upgraded to grant Confiteor Ready at level 80; as in live, using Confiteor or the later Blades spells consumes a charge of Req.

Square Enix reworked Paladin, but it is weaker than before.
I have never seen such a terrible adjustment in the past.
I have never seen a job reworked and made weaker than before.

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Originally Posted by FateRu

Square Enix reworked Paladin, but it is weaker than before.
I have never seen such a terrible adjustment in the past.
I have never seen a job reworked and made weaker than before.

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How exactly is it "weaker than before"? The entire rework was to fit it better under raid wides, They've gained new defensive capability. Theirs actual meaningful upsides to picking PLD a tank that has been really mediocre defensively and had pretty bad damage.

I'm not maths expert but even if PLD's currently falling behind by a bit they will likely increase it's damage to be on par with the other tanks.

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Originally Posted by Allegor

I'm a filthy casual that doesn't know 'the maths' so forgive the potencyally (:D) dumb question but uhh...now that FoF and Req aren't mutually exclusive, and apparently you'd even want to cast them practically side by side... wouldn't it make more sense to merge them and make Req an upgrade to FoF...?

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Long story short:
- In EW, every job needs to oblige 2 min raid buff meta, which was supposed to simplify things but it broke everything instead
- PLD's burst doesn't align with raid buffs
- DSR shows that PLD's lack of defensive CD is too much
- Tight 6.2 savage DPS check further shows that PLD (along with other jobs) is really too weak in current META
- SE has non-sensical ideology that PLD should have lower damage because it has range (which isn't guaranteed to align with downtime)
- Also hardest tank to optimize (top plays include excel spreadsheet for every encounter)
- PLD needs to get quick rework
- SE is afraid of removing abilities because of Kaiten accident (I'm convinced they deleted it by mistake and now it's too awkward to admit it, only logical explanation at this point)
- ???
- Nonsense like your example happens
- ??!!!??!
- Shield bash is still in the game

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Originally Posted by Rithy255

How exactly is it "weaker than before"? The entire rework was to fit it better under raid wides, They've gained new defensive capability. Theirs actual meaningful upsides to picking PLD a tank that has been really mediocre defensively and had pretty bad damage.

I'm not maths expert but even if PLD's currently falling behind by a bit they will likely increase it's damage to be on par with the other tanks.

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PLD's performance below 90 is significantly worse, which is frankly unforgivable given that this was supposed to be an "emergency rework" and not just moving potency around. And the overwhelming majority of PvE content is below level 90.

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Originally Posted by Gserpent

PLD's performance below 90 is significantly worse, which is frankly unforgivable given that this was supposed to be an "emergency rework" and not just moving potency around. And the overwhelming majority of PvE content is below level 90.

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I totally agree that the state of PLD in anything ARR/HW is pretty much a meme, It feels awful to play for sure in that sort of content, They needed to look at PLD at lower levels but it felt ignored. I also think that some parts of the rework really just missed the mark... Goring blade and Fight or flight feel currently really bad, Divine might change was good, Req was good also both shortened down the magic spam but also still let PLD to feel magic and more in control of sustain, I'm generally in the middle about this rework

I was talking about 90 here though, to be clear with you, it's still the most important stuff to balance around, but they do need to rework older content Jobs like BLM, PLD and Healers in general to name a few feel just really underwhelming to play in old content.

The lack of attention to the "low level experience" going into Endwalker was one of the biggest things keeping me off the hype train. I wasn't really active until just after Shadowbringers came out so I had no horse in that race, but after experiencing how rotten level sync felt in Shadowbringers, it blew my mind that they did almost nothing to acknowledge it in Endwalker.

I'm also amazed it's never really brought up in interviews, Q&A's, etc. Are they just rejecting any questions like that?

SMN's reworked levelling experience sucks till DWT, so it's not like this PLD stuff is the first time. Like, why don't Ruby/Topaz/Emerald Ruin have a different spell animation to Ruin 1/3? It's pretty lazy looking. Not to mention how insanely strong SMN is at specific level brackets, it demolishes at 70 so UCOB and UWU DPS checks don't exist. Well, they already didn't exist cos of the number crunch's effect, but this is icing on the cake. But yes, it's all the more reason for a level crunch to happen at some point. Some classes have such large windows between 'learn new thing' levels. IIRC Archer has a gap from 18-30, that's TWELVE levels of sod all. Admittedly, it's early so those levels are comparatively faster, but it's shocking all the same.

Fill the earlier levels with lower level variants of kit. Like why does WHM go till 52 before getting their Gauge, and 74 before it doesn't cost your damage to interact with the damn thing? Why can't Paladin get a lower level version of Holy Spirit/Circle at 40-45?