DESPERATION for INNOVATION: "FFXIV's DOWNFALL"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Baxta

Did you mean this? http://zeusls.llima.net/download/ffxiupdatehistory.html ? It's a long, tragic and at times, very funny read. Amazing how many of the same mistakes were repeated with XIV.

---

Reading through this again, it makes me wonder how much animosity the JP vets still carry towards NA players...

No idea. They still get bitchy when you say JP ORNY though.

What kind of a post is this? I don't even think anything of the armoury system it's fine...

My only qualm is content which I know they holding back for 2.0. I just want more story quests plot lines...sidequests...

heck if they gave me something like a pet I could raise or a card game I'd play that all day long...

nothing to do with the armoury system but continue to balance it...and speed things up as 2.0 should be addressing...YAWN.

Why do people on forums always take suggestions to the extremes? SE can add more diversity on an individual basis, in reference to jobs, without reverting the game back to its release state. There is a lot that can be done with just the sub jobs, for example, that would allow for jobs to retain their same position in group content but introduce some differentiation.

Maybe have a few choices for sub jobs, not just the 2 predetermined. I'm fairly confident SE doesn't want everyone curing so they could still limit the possible choices to 3 or 4 of the classes. On top of that, they could have your sub jobs impact your stats in a small way. Maybe make it so you can pick one sub job instead of two and you get a select few of the traits from that class.

I'm not saying any of these suggestions should be implemented, especially not without a lot more thought than the 5 minutes it took to come up with them, but there is still plenty SE could do with the -current- job system that would create diversity and possible uniqueness.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rykan

Does anybody, besides me, still think this Armoury System is gonna end up being SE's Achilles' Heel?

They've worked it, and reworked it, from DAY ONE....and it is STILL an abomination. I mean...what the heck is supposed to set me apart from every other 50 WHM, WAR, and PLD....my armor choices? (unlikely, since every time new gear comes out, it's so easy to get)

So, is it my sub class? (nope...those are PRE-DETERMINED). Where is the versatility? Where is the DRG subbing "whm" so his wyvern can healing breath....Where is the SAM subbing DNC, so he can solo a damn Sky God lol....where is the thf subbing war for berserk, and so on....

What is it going to take for SE to realize that no1 wants to be a carbon frekin copy of everyone else with their job...a handful of actions that anybody can simply swap onto, is NOT helping the situation.


AND PLEASE.....do not give me that whole "that's what classes are for" spiel. Classes perfectly epitomize the terms "BORING and GENERIC."

---

Amen brother.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rykan

Does anybody, besides me, still think this Armoury System is gonna end up being SE's Achilles' Heel?

They've worked it, and reworked it, from DAY ONE....and it is STILL an abomination. I mean...what the heck is supposed to set me apart from every other 50 WHM, WAR, and PLD....my armor choices? (unlikely, since every time new gear comes out, it's so easy to get)

So, is it my sub class? (nope...those are PRE-DETERMINED). Where is the versatility? Where is the DRG subbing "whm" so his wyvern can healing breath....Where is the SAM subbing DNC, so he can solo a damn Sky God lol....where is the thf subbing war for berserk, and so on....

What is it going to take for SE to realize that no1 wants to be a carbon frekin copy of everyone else with their job...a handful of actions that anybody can simply swap onto, is NOT helping the situation.


AND PLEASE.....do not give me that whole "that's what classes are for" spiel. Classes perfectly epitomize the terms "BORING and GENERIC."

---

I understand your point - where's the customisation? Every BLM for example walks around in the same gear with the same abilities and spells. But you've got to understand that yes, this whole system has been recently reworked - you can't expect it to relaunch with an awesome fully-customisable armoury system that allows each player to create their own builds. This will come with time, I'm sure, particularly at or after 2.0 I have no doubts that the system will grow, whether it be with new abilities you have to pick and choose, "merits", attaching glyphs to your character or an entirely new feature.

SE has only just laid out the groundwork and the system is still going through its tweaks and changes (note the recent PLD/WAR switcheroo). Let them iron out these kinks first before the system starts to grow and develop.

Now it's been quite awhile since I last played FFXI (Stopped seriously playing shortly after Treasures of Aught-whatever), but I seem to recall everyone being shoehorned into a certain preset of "optimal" subjobs for anything team oriented.

I know if I tried to join a team as RDM/MNK I'd get laughed at, told to stop messing around, and sub BLM or WHM. Not a whole lot of diversity in that.

The only thing that distinguished one RDM/WHM from the other RDM/WHM was gear. It's not like we had to pick and choose which spells we took, you could learn em all.

Granted, if you wanted to pop an odd subjob and go solo, there was nothing stopping you.

The selection of what most people would call "effective" subjobs may have been somewhat limited. Mages pretty much were subbing their polar Mage counter part. /war /nin /sam for DD's. That however got a much larger expansion when some of the more flexible jobs finally peeked in. /sch and /dnc were plain naughty with what you could pull off. I do kind of get what OP is saying though. sub jobs may have been limited to only a handful but it was more diverse then what we got now.

Advanced jobs that has predetermined sub skills and the few you can equip are all the universal ones that everyone picks because they are just plain useful and difficult to go without. (I'm looking at you Second Wind)

The way I see it we're much more locked in and rigid then we were in FFXI. Even with the more hardcore attitude and preference on perfection.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Teakwood

I was so sad when I found out MNK/RDM didn't actually work. It's such a cool idea!

---

I'm sad because Hiir has no boobs. ; ;

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by indira

biggest issue with the games is its going to be focused on instance content which is pertty much a grind for gear and when everyone already gets everything there not doing it again, SE seems to want and keep it at that and not trying to expand on it. they really need to make some content in 2.0 that you can do constantly with anyone at anytime or by your self or the game is gonna dry up fast. im so bored right now with the game im waiting for the AF weapons to be released before i log back in.

SE get your stuff together because its your last chance coming up in just over 6 months.

---

. . lol wow.. just wait for 2.0 then... if you ask me.. let SE take there time and DO IT RIGHT.. stop BS'ing about it and give then the time they need to fix the game the 1st team F up and sit back and wait \-_-/..I for one and haveing alot of fun and just helpinf all the new ppl comeing back is ok with me... 1 more year wont kill you ^^

Um.... all of that stuff is in FFXI. The armory system is simply weapon = class. All the other stuff from ffxi you want probably wont work in FFXIV.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by leomike35

Um.... all of that stuff is in FFXI. The armory system is simply weapon = class. All the other stuff from ffxi you want probably wont work in FFXIV.

---

Well Actually in XI you had a Weapon that a Job is most best suited for.. then you got Optional Weapons in which you can be say a SAM, and Your an A+ at Great Katana, but you rather use a Polearm, well you have to suffer with a B+ Rating on a Polearm.

But in a sense, it makes you want to use the weapon that the job is most suited for.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AceofRains

Hi Rykan, could you do me a few favors...?

First get to understand what these systems are, because they are by far not the Achilles Heel of this game.
You probably just don't get it and thats okay your obviously new to this.

Next I'd like you to take some time to browse this the guide in my signature, because it will open your eyes to the wide possibilities of the job system.

Last I'd like you to clean out your nostalgia hole because this is not ffxi. If you would like your dragon to have a healing breath go back to ffxi. If you would like your bosses to be soloed with an OP subjob then please return to ffxi. If you think that everyone is a carbon freak then you obviously havent played ffxi. diversity comes in how you solo buddy, theres no room for I wanna do it my way in a party, im sorry.

---

Are you stupid or something?
OP has a valid opinion. I think the armory system look good on paper, but I certainly think its stupid. Its a step down from FFXI where it should have been a step up.

HOW is the thread allowed to exist ? Shut this crap down please.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mort

Are you stupid or something?
OP has a valid opinion. I think the armory system look good on paper, but I certainly think its stupid. Its a step down from FFXI where it should have been a step up.

---

I think the major issue is that he treats everyone who disagrees with him poorly.

I don't know about the flame war going in this thread but I agree with OP on the armory system being a broken gimmick filled system that only survived because SE was afraid scrapping it would cause mass hysteria from the "I dun wanna lvlup again" crowd, or were just too lazy to do so.

Honestly, I would love a well rounded job system where you don't need to borrow any abilities from any other job (You can play all the jobs if you want, but those who don't want to, wont have to play jobs they don't enjoy for a couple of abilities)

The whole level everything! use all the abilities! gimmick ran its course, then it was limited then limited again with the implementation of jobs so why not take it a step further and just make a job good because its balanced and the player is skilled not because the player has more abilities.

It's also very convoluted to add new classes anyway! for SAM you need a base class like bushido that nobody really cares about since it exists just so SAM can exist, or covert an available class to unlock SAM which uses a 2 handed katana not a spear/axe/knuckles/staff and that would just break the armory system (Equip axe > equip job stone > equip katana instead of axe? > now you're a SAM!)

Hell... maybe once that gets sorted out we'll be able to have more weapons to use instead of being locked on one type (Tun-fa Monk/Mace Paladin/Hammer Warrior/Crossbow Bard anyone?) and it "should" be easier to balance if/when they decide to add new jobs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mort

Are you stupid or something?
OP has a valid opinion. I think the armory system look good on paper, but I certainly think its stupid. Its a step down from FFXI where it should have been a step up.

---

i think the original armory system was 100x as good as the job/subjob trash that was in xi. the opinion may be valid, but the way the op has treated others who opposed their views has alot to do with why this opinion is treated this way.

http://static2.finalfantasyxiv.com/a...RrY6Vxta3w.jpg

Now that's out of my system, the armory system is fine as is, the real issue is the jobs aren't balanced yet, that takes awhile to do, especially when players find new exploits that the devs weren't expecting. (i.e. in XI, SAM was intended to be a parry tank, and NIN a multirange DD, it wound up the other way instead.)

Having a base Armoury system is fine and requiring multiple classes for Jobs is fine as that supposedly helps you learn about what other roles are doing and also tempts you to play different roles yourself.

It just feels theres still something missing or overlooked...

In the original system, albeit I wasnt high level at the time, I found I was just cross classing the same skills on every class (feint, skull sunder, raging strike, etc). In the current system that is more or less still the case, whether by choice or by not having much else to cross class (e.g. the choices for whm and blm are similar and limited).


It would be more interesting if cross class skills were similar to how materia in FF7 worked or a junctioning type system, you equip or link them together for various additional effects. Say you are on WHM and you have access to Sentinel or Featherfoot, you could link sentinel to your cure line to give a defence boost on your cures or link it to featherfoot to give an evasion boost to your cures. Then on BLM if I linked featherfoot to Sanguine Rite I could get double the MP back from each hit taken while Rite is active. Or say on WAR, if I linked Sentinel to Mighty Strikes, instead of making critical hits, i would be able to break the mobs armour, shield or weapon thereby lowering its defence or attack. In this manner, the cross class skills would in effect be turned into passive traits when used cross class, the action bar would save some space, you would never see a different job using another job's abilities actively, and it would not be so hectic mid battle)

Another point that seems forgotten from 11's subjobs, you didnt just use a subjob for its skills, but you had the traits on top. In 14, the traits dont cross class. Sometimes I wish I could cross class the traits instead of the skills!

That type of cross classing would open up a lot of diversity within the playerbase and lead the way for out of the box wacky builds that no one thought of but work.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hachi-Roku

DESPERATION for POSTCOUNT: "RYKAN'S JOURNEY"

Are you going to go for some kind of new-topic record in General Discussion?

---

lol, no...I'm actually just a little narcissistic, and feel like my opinions are so important, and so "vital to this games success", that I make an effort to get all the info out there as fast as I can xD

These "feelings" have been brewing for quite a while, but I've been too busy (and too lazy) to really get on here much. Anyway, to AceofRains:

I perused your Armoury/Job system document, and I gotta say....it gave me a little hope for the game. I still, absolutely, despise the Armoury System (simply because it only offers one extreme or the other), but at least it's not completely hopeless.

And, Volsung, dude/dudette.....you can't be serious lol

The reason ppl are still "whining" is because it's always been one extreme, or the other: There's either SO much versatility that we have no choice but to lvl every single class, just to feel well rounded (making every one a carbon copy of each other); or there's so little versatility (pre-determined sub-classes) that no one stands out from the next guy. I think the easiest way to remedy all of this, might just be to allow weapon diversity among the classes/jobs.

If a PLD wants to equip a staff, then let him; if a MRD wants to equip a spear...then let him.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

i think the original armory system was 100x as good as the job/subjob trash that was in xi. the opinion may be valid, but the way the op has treated others who opposed their views has alot to do with why this opinion is treated this way.

---

*Resists the urge to respond with hostility* lol...

Have you ever heard the term "passive aggressive," darkstar? Well, fyi, you're being passive aggressive, right now...maybe w/o even realizing it. When people post responses, and dismiss my points, make presumptuous comments about my experience with this game, spout off things like "not trying to be rude, but why don't you just go play XI, if you liked it so much,?" it tends to cause confrontation.

Those ppl may hide behind a barrier of subtlety, but their message is quite clear:

"We like things the way they are; take your opinions and shove em up your ass"


And, that is why I respond in such a "volatile" way.

I'm so proud of you, Rykan. *wipes away a tear* You learned to use colour tags!