Console Players don't need Addons

High end content in this game is like driving a car without a speedometer but there are still speed limits

cope harder tbh

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Just "playing the game" can only teach you to the degree that not knowing how to play the game would punish you.

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Which isnt very high seeing as theres plenty of content that can be solo-ed sycned. Just take any of the 83-89 dungeons. As a dps you could literally afk 100% of the time and get a clear.

If you've done any raiding at all, you would know that console players frequently ask people to upload ACT logs on their behalf when a run ends, so that they can do diagnostics through FFlogs or XivAnalysis.

But as with the rest of these threads, it's just weird people who don't do the content making unfounded generalizations and authoritative sounding statements about something they have essentially 0 personal experience with.

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Originally Posted by VirusOnline

bruh the combat log.
im dying.

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Imagine caring about parses in normal content. You assume I go into laughably easy content I've cleared numerous times over giving a remote fuck. Why don't you check how many times I died or failed mechanics, the only thing that actually matters in low end content.

And then after you do that, log off.

somebody correct me if im wrong. Was it not during stormblood that some console players wanted some sort of parser. i know someone created this https://ffxiv.azizarar.com/ for stone sky sea to help console players determine there dps

As a person that was on console. i wouldnt have mind addons that could help me improve

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Originally Posted by YukikoKurosawa

What if

What if

They don't want you to have that information and have designed encounters entirely around you not having said information?

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No if. How exactly do you know that when you are not clearing any current content?

You bet console players would use all QoL PC gets. You just can't so console players gets salty. And that's the truth.

For example, you don't need to see chat bubbles to clear content. Players just want them. Etc.

So many coy and obtuse responses, jfc.

I guess I'll actually answer the question. Not for the OP's benefit, but just because this reminded me of something.

Now, first of all, I'm a console player here. I definitely don't feel I personally need addons, but I absolutely would like them. That said...

I used to play FFXI. Anyone familiar with that game knows about Windower, I'm sure. Well, I played that game for maybe 3 years without touching it, so it's safe to say I didn't need it.

Flash forward to my 6th year playing the game, and I came to a sudden realization one day. If I was to suddenly lose Windower, the game would become unplayable to me. It was such a giant QoL addition to my gameplay experience that if I was to lose access to it, the game would have become an unfun mess and I would have simply refused to play it and quit.

So did I need addons to play that game? No. But then yes. I needed them, otherwise I would not have had fun with how bad of an experience it is to play without it.

Sometimes, ignorance is bliss.

"Console players do not have access to addons, but surely some of them would like to have (whether 1st or 3rd party)."

fixed it. what do you all like? : )

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Originally Posted by YukikoKurosawa

Imagine caring about parses in normal content. You assume I go into laughably easy content I've cleared numerous times over giving a remote fuck. Why don't you check how many times I died or failed mechanics, the only thing that actually matters in low end content.

And then after you do that, log off.

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https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...54/138/bf7.gif

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Originally Posted by YukikoKurosawa

Imagine caring about parses in normal content. You assume I go into laughably easy content I've cleared numerous times over giving a remote fuck. Why don't you check how many times I died or failed mechanics, the only thing that actually matters in low end content.

And then after you do that, log off.

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ey this wasn't about parsing in low end content
your entire argument hangs upon the pinnacle of "you're not supposed to see data"
when in fact that data has always been available - the combat log

the game has always been parsing you
does the bar chart make it worse ? xD

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

I know, I'm just saying. Lets just not generalize people here in order to better your arguments.

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I wasn't generalizing. Obviously the content is perfectly doable without 3rd party tools, but OP doesn't even do the content so in general his opinion is meaningless. The 3rd party tools don't even give any real major advantages from what I've seen. Its just a bunch of QoL stuff that should be in the game already like timers on the buffs/debuffs on the party list.

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Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda

As a DPS you can generally tell where you stand by your rank on the enmity list. There isn't a need for exact numbers during the fight. I generally see parsers more often used by people trying to e-peen or using it to berate players that are below them on the parse.

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1.) WTF? No you can't. I'm ALWAYS high in the enmity list right behind the tank in my static....but I also play samurai so of course I'm going to be way up that list compared to say the MCH in my static. The doesn't mean the MCH is doing bad DPS, but that is NOT a good gauge to see if you're doing well or not considering no matter how good a MCH player is they are never going to match the output of a SAM.

2.) I've never seen anyone ever in this game utilize parsers to berate players in this game. I know that's a stigma from WoW, but that just isn't a thing here because unlike WoW, players in FFXIV are actually afraid of the GM's. If you mention someones DPS in game you WILL get a suspension for harassment.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

a
I used to play FFXI. Anyone familiar with that game knows about Windower

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Wow that brings back some memories. I used to use windower just because FFXI was weird and would straight up close the game if you alt tabbed. If you didn't close out any of your instant messengers before starting up FFXI....you were very brave lmao. It only took one person to send you a message and ruin your day as the instant messenger box comes to the front of the screen and causing FFXI to close. Enjoy that 20 minute process of logging back in lmao.

"The game is unplayable without mods"
"Discord is technically a 3rd party tool"
"GShade and Chat Bubbles are just QoL addons, therefore literally every other addon/plugin, including things like Cactbot, is just a QoL thing too"

and 1001 other ways you can pretend to have no brain.

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Originally Posted by MediArgentum

"GShade and Chat Bubbles are just QoL addons, therefore literally every other addon/plugin, including things like Cactbot, is just a QoL thing too"

and 1001 other ways you can pretend to have no brain.

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Are paraphrasing and misconstruing arguments included in those 1001 ways? Asking for a friend.

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Originally Posted by MediArgentum

"The game is unplayable without mods"
"Discord is technically a 3rd party tool"
"GShade and Chat Bubbles are just QoL addons, therefore literally every other addon/plugin, including things like Cactbot, is just a QoL thing too"

and 1001 other ways you can pretend to have no brain.

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So true lol. Too many people trying to RP as an attorney with these takes.

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Originally Posted by MediArgentum

"The game is unplayable without mods"
"Discord is technically a 3rd party tool"
"GShade and Chat Bubbles are just QoL addons, therefore literally every other addon/plugin, including things like Cactbot, is just a QoL thing too"

and 1001 other ways you can pretend to have no brain.

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So tell me how is plugins like BDTH or gpose not breaking the ToS? Especially BDTH where you can sink/float furniture beyond what the game normally allows you to?

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Originally Posted by Droxybrobotnik

Dude. You can glitch furniture ingame to achieve enough things BDTH makes easier to the point that its virtually impossible to tell if it was even involved.

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I hit my government allotted post limit, but you can absolutely sink/float furniture beyond the normal limits and it is absolutely easy to tell if you've played with housing before. In fact, when using the plugin people tell you not to be obvious about it because people will report you for it. It is one of the plugins that come VERY close to breaking the ToS if it doesn't already. So again tell me how it's not cheating, after all many housers don't use BDTH to make their houses look great.

Dude. You can glitch furniture ingame to achieve enough things BDTH makes easier to the point that its virtually impossible to tell if it was even involved.

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Originally Posted by Padudu

So tell me how is plugins like BDTH not breaking the ToS?

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They do. All plugins break ToS. Innocent QoL plugins included. However, despite of this, innocent QoL plugins like GShade and Chat Bubble aren't a problem. I don't know about this BDTH, so I can't tell you how innocent that one is or isn't.

Core of the big problem in this whole situation here is: plugins that interface with the game data and decrease the difficulty of the content (of dungeons, trials or raids) by doing so.

So let us drop these "It's just nice QoL features" argument, because, yes, we already know that. Plugins that just fall into this "Nice QoL features" category aren't a real problem (yes, they still break ToS but most likely you won't be banned for it). Real problem is that other category I've described above in bold text. Re-read it again, to let it sink in.

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Originally Posted by MediArgentum

They do. All plugins break ToS. Innocent QoL plugins included. However, despite of this, innocent QoL plugins like GShade and Chat Bubble aren't a problem. I don't know about this BDTH, so I can't tell you how innocent that one is or isn't.

Core of the big problem in this whole situation here is: plugins that interface with the game data and decrease the difficulty of the content (of dungeons, trials or raids) by doing so.

So let us drop these "It's just nice QoL features" argument, because, yes, we already know that. Plugins that just fall into this "Nice QoL features" category aren't a real problem (yes, they still break ToS but most likely you won't be banned for it). Real problem is that other category I've described above in bold text. Re-read it again, to let it sink in.

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Can you say with addons are you talking about and elaborate why they decrese dificulty?

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Originally Posted by Scaramouche

Do they don't need them or they have people using them and then giving call out through discord benefiting from said 3rd party tools while pretending they can clear without addon.

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One of our best players in my FC plays on their PS5 and they do the callouts.

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Originally Posted by YukikoKurosawa

So why do you?

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I think there is a typo in ur title, let me fix it for u: "Console Players r unable to use addons, and sometimes wish they could"

There really isn't any actual argument to make to say that addons are NECESSARY unless its an accessibility issue like being actually colorblind or something. To say that the game should be better and have the plugin features in the game just misses the point. I agree with it but at the end of the day it does nothing to prove the argument of "but console players can clear ultimate" wrong at all. If it WAS actually necessary then they shouldn't have been able to clear it. Therefore it isn't, simple. I'm very much looking forward to these QoL changes coming from this fiasco.

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Originally Posted by Link941

There really isn't any actual argument to make to say that addons are NECESSARY unless its an accessibility issue like being actually colorblind or something. To say that the game should be better and have the plugin features in the game just misses the point. I agree with it but at the end of the day it does nothing to prove the argument of "but console players can clear ultimate" wrong at all. If it WAS actually necessary then they shouldn't have been able to clear it. Therefore it isn't, simple. I'm very much looking forward to these QoL changes coming from this fiasco.

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but u see, that is like saying "anyone can be a billionaire, even u"

just because something is possible, does not mean it has any realistic chance of happening for most individuals

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Originally Posted by Burmecia

"Console players do not have access to addons, but surely some of them would like to have (whether 1st or 3rd party)."

fixed it. what do you all like? : )

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And yet, they still clear the content just fine, content which is designed to be cleared without them in the first place.

What is the argument here, that it's too hard and you'd like it to be easier? You think the content is badly designed? Which is it?

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Originally Posted by MediArgentum

Core of the big problem in this whole situation here is: plugins that interface with the game data and decrease the difficulty of the content (of dungeons, trials or raids) by doing so.

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So just to confirm. If the addon has to meet both parts of your criteria to not be QoL, then ACT should be ok right? It doesn't do anything but report your DPS, so it has no bearing on the content itself.

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Originally Posted by MediArgentum

They do. All plugins break ToS. Innocent QoL plugins included. However, despite of this, innocent QoL plugins like GShade and Chat Bubble aren't a problem. I don't know about this BDTH, so I can't tell you how innocent that one is or isn't.

Core of the big problem in this whole situation here is: plugins that interface with the game data and decrease the difficulty of the content (of dungeons, trials or raids) by doing so.

So let us drop these "It's just nice QoL features" argument, because, yes, we already know that. Plugins that just fall into this "Nice QoL features" category aren't a real problem (yes, they still break ToS but most likely you won't be banned for it). Real problem is that other category I've described above in bold text. Re-read it again, to let it sink in.

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This argument would have teeth, if one of the banned streamers wasn't banned simply for having visible ACT and Dalamud QOL plugins on his screen. He wasn't Cactbotting or Paisley Parking, just had visual upgrades and a damage meter.

He was punished anyway, because 5ch is pitching a fit, and Square is going on a small streamer ban wave to capitulate to that fit.

Most of the smug "plugins are CHEATING" in this forum clearly comes from people who don't know what they do, don't care, and prefer feeling like superior TOS-justicars on their high horses over reading up on what plugins actually do and asking for some of the *incredibly* useful feature ideas you can find there.

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Originally Posted by YukikoKurosawa

And yet, they still clear the content just fine, content which is designed to be cleared without them in the first place.

What is the argument here, that it's too hard and you'd like it to be easier? You think the content is badly designed? Which is it?

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Personally, I’d say the argument is that there is a severe lack of feedback provided by the game when it comes to mistakes and what went wrong during a pull, and some raiders enjoy having a tool that outlines all of these so that they can strive to rectify them and not repeat them. You certainly don’t need the extra feedback since you can just sort to ok’ trial and error and bash your head against the mechanic for a while—but I fail to see how it equates to cheating. It’s the same as saying “well you don’t need a calculator to solve this math problem, you can just do it the long and written-out way”! Neither is cheating: one is just more streamlined and provides faster results. I highly doubt anyone wants to sit down with a pen and paper and manually calculate damage in this game; so you don’t really have any high-ground to stand on arguing against a vanilla parser. It’s just a calculator.

Reviewing and reflecting on feedback insinuates a desire for personal growth.

I draw the line at some add-ons that hack in invisible AOE indicators to be visible and anything they automates gameplay (botting scripts), but something like a vanilla parser used with FFLogs or XIVAnalysis to analyze mistakes and promote progression isn’t cheating. It’s simply streamlined problem solving.


At the end of the day, you have expressed explicitly that you have no interest in the high-end. So my question to you is why do you care so much that you have been on this crusade for the past 24+ hours? This is content that you don’t participate in, have no plans to participate in, and has zero effect on you. So why do you care? Are you trying to insinuate/prove that console players are better than PC ones? How does that amount to anything productive to incite another “us versus them” war?

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

Most of the smug "plugins are CHEATING" in this forum clearly comes from people who don't know what they do, don't care, and prefer feeling like superior TOS-justicars on their high horses over reading up on what plugins actually do and asking for some of the *incredibly* useful feature ideas you can find there.

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XIV community in a shellnut

this was back in 2.0 Interview


https://www.bluegartr.com/threads/10...-Transcription

and audio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rg-1QR8CpTU&t=309s

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Originally Posted by YukikoKurosawa

So why do you?

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If console players had access to the same addons they'd use them too you ass. You get what you paid for, how much did you spend on your console? Wanna know what I spent on my PC? 1600 euro, and that was years ago. And that's not accounting for changing the GPU recently. Don't use the fact that you game on a limited machine as a thin excuse for making shit threads like these, its honestly disgraceful and makes you look worse than anybody you're trying to jab at.

ITT: OP has multiple bad takes and gets filtered immediately in the first reply alone.

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Originally Posted by YukikoKurosawa

And yet, they still clear the content just fine, content which is designed to be cleared without them in the first place.

What is the argument here, that it's too hard and you'd like it to be easier? You think the content is badly designed? Which is it?

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Because you dont clear any content, I need to ask you. As a casual, what do you do. Relics? Achievement hunting? RP? Housing? Pet hunting? Hunts? Because thats the players who benefit from addons most. Not those 0.2% of cheats, that are hosted on shady websites or paid discords. Those are not allowed in official addon database, as plugin devs hate cheats. Me, personally, I dont know anyone who use any sort of addon they would need for instanced content. They mostly use addons for outside of content, or even being able to launch FF on linux, as FF launcher suck on Linux.

Yoshida, fix Linux support before you not allow launcher that actually works, thank you!

Correction, "Console Players don't need Addons outside of Hrothgar/Viera Hair and Hat mods". Seriously, let me wear my Bard hat SE, and have a ponytail with my ears visible. I don't ask for much here.

Kupo, the 1337 just log in to a terminal and run commands/scripts to play while eating doritos, drinking bawls (remember that drink? lol) and during raids use all the good adhd salts...sure it might age us like a dog (amphetamine does this) but it gets the parse in kupo!!!! YEEEEAH lol jk jk kupo <3

Don't need no addons ..pfft lol jk jk kupo <3 jk

Im a console Player..I dont need Mods to play or enjoy the game.
That being said...some of the mods Ive seen...I would love. And none of them are for hats on Hrothgar or Viera

On ffxi yes we used windower. But I only used it to duo/tri my characters. Which in this game you can only play 1 character at a time. Also didn't use voice chat. We used calls. You had to research fights. But I Also played on 360 with keyboard and macros. And still enjoyed it.

Look console players don't need these add-on's. And they complete new content. Would I like or use UI add-on's 100%. So would some others. But point is we can't. ACT,UI and positioning software gives you an advantage over consoles. And that isn't fair. It's as simple as that.

Also hope SE adds some of these UI add-on's soon. Also FF MMO never had bubble chat. And I've been playing FF MMO's since FFXI launch. And we've been fine.

Please, can people stop throwing themselves at each other's throats?
Let me just try to make some points a bit clearer outside of the garbled mess of people going at it with emotions.

To define what we could potentially call cheating or for a less grievous term, artificially lowering content difficulty. One of the simplest ways to define it would be anything that does something for you instead of doing it yourself. There's no ambiguity nor doubt about it I believe?

Parsers, ACT, whatever DPS meter you like to use. A tool that serves to analyse someone's efficiency. In my humble opinion, I believe you don't actually need any of that to just clear. As far as I've observed so far, content works in a way that, as long as you regularly make use of your CDs, keep your GCD rolling as much as you're able to and prevent mechanics from killing or lowering your damage, then you can clear. The whole parser, ACT and so on only serves so you can do it faster, which is arguably trivial.

Consoles can't have addons, they don't need them either. PC don't need them either but they can't be stopped from using them.

As far as I see it, some people are trading the fun in playing the game for over-efficiently clear content. Not saying there isn't any fun at all in being good but when you get a random thing telling you how to play...I don't know, to me it feels cheap, weak, bland, empty.

I think these few paragraphs do make for a better objective of discussion about the need of addons, whether console or PC and why. Can we please talk about these points I made? About the whole trivialising content or not?

PS: Shaders and other non-gameplay affecting addons are mostly the personal preference of whoever so I don't really have a way to fairly bring points about it.

The most popular combat addon is probably ACT and that is purely for cutting down on the time it would take for you to look at FFlogs and do the math by just calculating dps for you so you know when you performed below the expected standard.
If you're gonna call that cheating then I guess talking in voice chat is also cheating, because you can communicate outside pulls and explain strats between them easier. Pretty bad logic if you ask me. Do console players not use voice chat?

"Indeed, we’ve only released duties that we have proven can be beaten with the game’s standard features." - Yoshi P.
I have decided to take a rest from the game due to the communities obsession with 3rd party tools, hoping one day they will go back to WoW or whatever.

I don't need ice in my drinks but damn it is it nice to have.