3rd party tool go brrrrr

honestly that part of the ToS is a hot mess that has been haunting the game for years.

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Originally Posted by kpxmanifesto

I'm not sure if you saw the screenshot in the other thread, but SE does in fact intend to make their own UI and HUD enhancements. There's no timeline or set date for this, however.

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yes i saw the other threads. at first i thought most people would be against it but i guess i was wrong lol.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...66/unknown.png

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Originally Posted by CosmicCoqui

Still does not ignore the fact that it does something better then a person either way.

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Doesn't really matter, if you suck at the game you suck at the game. Perfectly timed and correct call outs aren't going to suddenly make you a competent efficient player.

I mean the ToS does not directly call out "mods" or "third party software". It mostly states information around the use of software modifying the game files and then behaviors that are prohibited. Unless the program modifies game files or does something along those lines, they are not directly against the ToS. However, the behavior shown when using the mods can result in a ban, such as using tools to circumvent game mechanics or deliberately promoting the usage of mods. Like someone using a slide cast mod is definitely going to result in a ban if they catch them via stream, but discord overlays or what not would not. Neither would the use of shaders that do not directly inject into the running process and interact with the gpu logic.

I find it humorous how all of these outraged voices on the forums don't use mods themselves. I mean, if you don't use 3rd party software in the first place this whole situation doesn't effect you at all.

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Originally Posted by Ayer2015

I find it humorous how all of these outraged voices on the forums don't use mods themselves. I mean, if you don't use 3rd party software in the first place this whole situation doesn't effect you at all.

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Nice try, Yoshi P.

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Originally Posted by CosmicCoqui

Still does not ignore the fact that it does something better then a person either way.

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that's not true, you prog/run something for long enough you recognize the patterns and can practically run content in your sleep. i progged ucob and uwu for so long i can close my eyes and visualize the mechanics from start to finish. and even if there is an element of randomization to mechanics (twister, liquid hell baits, most of ad phase the entirety of suppression, etc) you have a general idea of what to look for and what to do based on the debuffs you have or the animation of the cast going out

Boring....

https://youtu.be/e_i6mjiGerU

They have very clearly explained this multiple times. It has never been unclear. They do not care that you want to tell people that they are "Under Preforming", they want people to play the game and have fun. Not play the stats.

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Originally Posted by Oopsy

They do not care that you want to tell people that they are "Under Preforming",

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no one said thats what they cared about.

kpxmanifesto did.

And Yoshi-P said he doesn't want people doing that... Pretty much explicitly said the reason he does not like parsers is because the reason kpxmanifesto mentioned wanting them.... He doesn't want people judging people over their DPS and he doesn't want people setting party limits based off DPS the person can do.

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Originally Posted by Oopsy

kpxmanifesto did.

And Yoshi-P said he doesn't want people doing that... Pretty much explicitly said the reason he does not like parsers is because the reason kpxmanifesto mentioned wanting them.... He doesn't want people judging people over their DPS and he doesn't want people setting party limits based off DPS the person can do.

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the original poster never made the statement that the devs cared about people telling other people that they are under performing. its obvious the devs want people to play the game and have fun and not play the stats.

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Originally Posted by EagleDynamics

the original poster never made the statement that the devs cared about people telling other people that they are under performing. its obvious the devs want people to play the game and have fun and not play the stats.

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YOSHI-P said he cares. https://youtu.be/e_i6mjiGerU?t=283

Original poster said they wanted to use parsing tools to tell people they are bad....


https://imgur.com/a/nKGwUvf
https://i.imgur.com/xuSssKq.png


Some reason it lost its replay but... whatever.

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Originally Posted by Oopsy

YOSHI-P said he cares. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_i6mjiGerU

Original poster said they wanted to use parsing tools to tell people they are bad....


https://imgur.com/a/nKGwUvf
https://i.imgur.com/xuSssKq.png


Some reason it lost its replay but... whatever.

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for the last time we already we know what yoshi ps stance is on parsers lol. no one said that yoshi p said he didnt care. the original poster didnt even say they wanted to use parsing tools to tell people they are bad. all she said was that a bad player might not believe that they are playing badly unless they were shown the actual numbers from the parser. thats not the same as saying she wants to use parsing tools to tell people they are bad.

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Originally Posted by EagleDynamics

for the last time we already we know what yoshi ps stance is on parsers lol. no one said that yoshi p said he didnt care. the original poster didnt even say they wanted to use parsing tools to tell people they are bad. all she said was that a bad player might not believe that they are playing badly unless they were shown the actual numbers from the parser. thats not the same as saying she wants to use parsing tools to tell people they are bad.

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That's the mentality that makes parsing soooo bad.
Its a game.
Do you like playing with the person or not? Is it fun to interact with them? How skilled they are should not mater.

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Originally Posted by Oopsy

kpxmanifesto did.

And Yoshi-P said he doesn't want people doing that... Pretty much explicitly said the reason he does not like parsers is because the reason kpxmanifesto mentioned wanting them.... He doesn't want people judging people over their DPS and he doesn't want people setting party limits based off DPS the person can do.

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He needs to realize that they fights they are designing have hard DPS checks, aka if your DPS isn't high enough in the group you just lose. Kinda need a meter when there are hard checks...

https://youtu.be/l1Imv4Jcnwg

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Originally Posted by EagleDynamics

snip

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TBH, I think the person you're replying to is just a little kid.

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Originally Posted by kpxmanifesto

TBH, I think the person you're replying to is just a little kid.

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that would explain a lot.

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Originally Posted by Oopsy

kpxmanifesto did.

And Yoshi-P said he doesn't want people doing that... Pretty much explicitly said the reason he does not like parsers is because the reason kpxmanifesto mentioned wanting them.... He doesn't want people judging people over their DPS and he doesn't want people setting party limits based off DPS the person can do.

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.... They emphasized on the fact that people who already ignore it will continue to ignore it.

Yoship knows that DPS checks are needed and used to weed out people who don't put in effort.

This isn't something you should be talking about.

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Originally Posted by Oopsy

That's the mentality that makes parsing soooo bad.
Its a game.
Do you like playing with the person or not? Is it fun to interact with them? How skilled they are should not mater.

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If you come into hard content, or just playing the game of instances, I do not want someone to go AFK when someone could've been there actually putting in effort.

If you come in, and do so bad, it's as if you are optional and being pressure by taking up a slot, you're making things worse in said content as a hinderance.

I do not like playing a person who's afk/putting minimal effort when it's already easy.

I want to play with a person who puts in equal effort, it's COOP, multiplayer, you play with other people. I have no reason nor do they have a reason to be actively carried as if it's payday, TF2, any moba, F1, etc.

If you don't want to play that game, fine, you can go back and stay fishing, roleplaying, whatever it is if you find playing the game of hitting a glorified striking dummy too hard for you.

If I go Aglaia as DPS and only doing Auto Attacks, no one will know. And no one can prove it. And if they say I m doing not enough damage and/or kick me, I will report them.

FFXIV is not a MMORPG. Its a Solo-RPG where everyone is my personal NPC.

- this is one example why parsers or at least a result screen at the end are neccessary these days.

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Originally Posted by Inanegrain

.... They emphasized on the fact that people who already ignore it will continue to ignore it.

Yoship knows that DPS checks are needed and used to weed out people who don't put in effort.

This isn't something you should be talking about.


If you come into hard content, or just playing the game of instances, I do not want someone to go AFK when someone could've been there actually putting in effort.

If you come in, and do so bad, it's as if you are optional and being pressure by taking up a slot, you're making things worse in said content as a hinderance.

I do not like playing a person who's afk/putting minimal effort when it's already easy.

I want to play with a person who puts in equal effort, it's COOP, multiplayer, you play with other people. I have no reason nor do they have a reason to be actively carried as if it's payday, TF2, any moba, F1, etc.

If you don't want to play that game, fine, you can go back and stay fishing, roleplaying, whatever it is if you find playing the game of hitting a glorified striking dummy too hard for you.

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Cool, you are all sooo amazing. You can totally beat the hard content by cheating but its impossible without cheating... So cheating should be allowed and you should make fun of people who do not cheat, yet some how still find many ways to enjoy and love the game as it was designed.

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Originally Posted by Oopsy

Cool, you are all sooo amazing. You can totally beat the hard content by cheating but its impossible without cheating... So cheating should be allowed and you should make fun of people who do not cheat, yet some how still find many ways to enjoy and love the game as it was designed.

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Wow most people like to cover up the fact that they have no idea what they're talking about, brave soul you are for displaying it so blatantly!

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Originally Posted by Oopsy

Cool, you are all sooo amazing. You can totally beat the hard content by cheating but its impossible without cheating... So cheating should be allowed and you should make fun of people who do not cheat, yet some how still find many ways to enjoy and love the game as it was designed.

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You make fun of the PS4/PS5 and some players with missing limbs who have done better than you in FF14, as if it was impossible for them to clear hard content.

When was "cheating" ever mentioned to make fun of people? When is it impossible without "cheating"?

People do not need ACT to figure out if someone's underperforming, they can look at others while yawning to see if they're even in an animation or casting.

Great community btw.

For some reason, people think that people with the evil barser will call them out for doing 10% or 20% less DPS than they should be.

In reality, pretty much all of the egregious stuff (0dps healer, underpulling tank, not using food in high-end content, not doing mechanics, that kind of stuff) is completely evident without a parser, and is already against the ToS to harass someone over. Considering how many people make it to level 90 without learning those fundamentals, yet aren't getting harassed constantly over it, there's absolutely nothing to worry about.

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Originally Posted by EagleDynamics

seriously. banning someone for using a party buff timer and a dps meter has got to be one of the dumbest things ive ever heard of. ive used mods like these when i used to play wow a long time ago and all it did was help me become a better player.

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Yoshi has warned everyone to keep the third party usage to themselves for years now. He even explicitly stated if you are caught you will be banned. You guys kill me.

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Originally Posted by MsMisato

Yoshi has warned everyone to keep the third party usage to themselves for years now. He even explicitly stated if you are caught you will be banned. You guys kill me.

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Why isn't pyromancer banned then? Squares enforcement cannot begin and end at "send a message with an example" otherwise...it's not gonna actually go any way to accomplishing Yoshidas goal of pure first party ffxiv.

Tbh you guys should just ignore these types of people.
They contribute absolutely nothing other than their emotional whining and you'll never get them out of their bubble. Either they stop replying or they block you. It's legitimately pointless.

So from what I've gathered in the past so many pages is that there's a lalafell who dislikes parsers.

If I wanted to see where I went wrong, or where I could improve I could do;

1) Record it.
2) Read the battle logs myself.
3) Use a parser that removes the information that isn't needed and gives me my performance in an easy to read format.

Don't pretend like people only use parsing to judge others. It's a very good learning tool to better your own performance. Is it needed? No of course it isn't. But is it extremely helpful? Yes. XIVanalysis.com which reads parses has helped me improve my rotation and pick up what mistakes I commonly make.

Pros:
They want it.
They can measure compute their states and formulate strategies using a program to give them advise.

Cons:
Harassment.
Not the intended play style.
Advantage over users who do not use the tool.
Use of addons that go beyond strictly parsing.
Game information is mined and collected.

Counter:
Harassment - No one would do that its against the rules on its own. - followed by calling players bad for their lack of stats on websites that people upload others parsed data to. so how could they be harassed their just bad.

Not the intended play style. - Its not needed but makes things easier. People want to play better but don't know how without hard calculated evidence from a computer program and script telling them as such. Also followed by arguments the the ones bring up that the game wasn't intended to be played that way are just bad players and could never do that content... further proving harassment.

Use of addons that go beyond strictly parsing. - but that would be against the rules, maybe? and also doesn't happen... often....

Game information is mined and collected. - You just don't understand how data works, it was already there... - no valid counter really made.


Please tell me where I misunderstood?

Literally cope harder lmao

40% GCD uptime player doesn't want parsing to be a thing, gee wonder why LOL

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Originally Posted by Oopsy

Harassment - No one would do that its against the rules on its own. - followed by calling players bad for their lack of stats on websites that people upload others parsed data to. so how could they be harassed their just bad.

Not the intended play style. - Its not needed but makes things easier. People want to play better but don't know how without hard calculated evidence from a computer program and script telling them as such. Also followed by arguments the the ones bring up that the game wasn't intended to be played that way are just bad players and could never do that content... further proving harassment.

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I am not against people using DPS metter, however, how a game is intended to play is not your decision, it is what developers design. That is why they pay to their game designers, not to you. "Making game easier" is the exact meaning of what cheating is, how is that counter argument??

Y'all ever regret looking up someone's name on the site that must not be named?

You guys need to stop arguing with all these Witch-Hunters. They crave this crap. Some of them are attention *!@#*&* if you know what I mean. Please just let them grovel in their vomit of excuses. Just enjoy the game. Let them wonder off into oblivion or something. Just continuing having fun with whatever you are doing in the game, and on your own computer.

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Originally Posted by Oopsy

Pros:
They want it.
They can measure compute their states and formulate strategies using a program to give them advise.

Cons:
Harassment.
Not the intended play style.
Advantage over users who do not use the tool.
Use of addons that go beyond strictly parsing.
Game information is mined and collected.

Counter:
Harassment - No one would do that its against the rules on its own. - followed by calling players bad for their lack of stats on websites that people upload others parsed data to. so how could they be harassed their just bad.

Not the intended play style. - Its not needed but makes things easier. People want to play better but don't know how without hard calculated evidence from a computer program and script telling them as such. Also followed by arguments the the ones bring up that the game wasn't intended to be played that way are just bad players and could never do that content... further proving harassment.

Use of addons that go beyond strictly parsing. - but that would be against the rules, maybe? and also doesn't happen... often....

Game information is mined and collected. - You just don't understand how data works, it was already there... - no valid counter really made.


Please tell me where I misunderstood?

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The part where this isn't for players that aren't interested in putting effort for difficult content. And for what I've already said, not meant to be here, you.

all addons are ToS breaking, said many times now, not limited to "parsers" to begin with except for the niche 2013 statement of Gshade.

See that battle log that seems like clutter? You don't need to know most of it and I doubt people cleaned it up to show relevant information.

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Originally Posted by SaberMaxwell

Why isn't pyromancer banned then? Squares enforcement cannot begin and end at "send a message with an example" otherwise...it's not gonna actually go any way to accomplishing Yoshidas goal of pure first party ffxiv.

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We probably won't ever see him respond to this comment. The pyromancer double standard pokes a huge hole through their argument.

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Originally Posted by EagleDynamics

seriously. banning someone for using a party buff timer and a dps meter has got to be one of the dumbest things ive ever heard of. ive used mods like these when i used to play wow a long time ago and all it did was help me become a better player.

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wow allows them. FF14 does not.

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Originally Posted by Darksummoner

You guys need to stop arguing with all these Witch-Hunters. They crave this crap. Some of them are attention *!@#*&* if you know what I mean. Please just let them grovel in their vomit of excuses. Just enjoy the game. Let them wonder off into oblivion or something. Just continuing having fun with whatever you are doing in the game, and on your own computer.

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Hey Hey....Whose hunting witches? I need to hide then :)

If you're talking about who I think you're talking about.