Keep our skills when Level syncing in dungeons

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Originally Posted by MilkieTea

https://c.tenor.com/1uGg9gGpnMsAAAAM...reamqueens.gif

How you sound right now

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You main summoner you should be on my side. Do you not wanna keep your full power summons? Do you not miss your bahamut??

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

How do you balance actions like Hallowed Ground? Benediction? Almost all other healers’ oGCD?

No, the answer isn’t as simple as potency tweaks. Simply put, almost impossible without making every job’s buttons either undertuned or overtuned. We don’t want either of those extremes.

Besides, there’s already a lore explanation to that. Take it like our WoL utilizing their Echo to re-experience the past dungeons when they first entered.

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This is why I'm suggesting extreme mode roulettes for endgame

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Originally Posted by RaijinThunder

This is why I'm suggesting extreme mode roulettes for endgame

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And by that you miss the point of roulettes. They're two way deal - you're giving your time and convenience to fill the gaps in Duty Finder parties and you get your tomestones for it. On level players that queued for the dungeon can clear it, vets get compensated for their time. Side efect of that is that players at various stage of progression mingle together on semi-equal ground. What you propose would separate the two creating artificial rift with all benefits skewed towards veterans as now they have to sacrifice nothing while newbies are left with subpar experience.

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Originally Posted by RaijinThunder

This is why I'm suggesting extreme mode roulettes for endgame

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Hmm, so a roulette just for level 90 characters, with dungeons scaled and balanced for level 90 characters. Good idea, but I think instead of just using developer time and resources to tweak old dungeons, they should make all new dungeons for this roulette, so that max level players can enjoy unlocking a bunch of new dungeons at hitting the cap.

Also, instead of calling them "extreme", since that refers to something already, maybe we should use a different word. Like "expert".

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Originally Posted by RaijinThunder

You main summoner you should be on my side. Do you not wanna keep your full power summons? Do you not miss your bahamut??

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I stopped doing roulettes beyond expert because I don’t need to in order to cap my tomes every week :). I spend most of my logged in time doing savage and extreme right now :)

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Originally Posted by Jaquan

Right... Let's get from the start. People ignore and break the rules all the time. Actually giving them extra reasons for elitism or discrimination against others is a bad idea. And the disparity between naturally low level players and "scaled down" ones will be huge. If there's one thing constant about MMO players is that they tend to hold meta in way too high of regard.

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To add to this...

We are, collectively, a playerbase who are extremely impatient. Witness the number of threads about how it's a Crime Against Humanity for a tank to single pull in higher-end content because it makes the dungeon take like, 8-10 minutes more. (To be fair, I find it excruciatingly dull when a tank single-pulls. I'm not going to yell at them for it, but I could still be considered part of the problem there.)

Witness that, rules or no, no one ever waited for sprouts to watch the cutscenes in the old MSQ duties, to the point that SQEX just threw in the towel and made the cutscenes unskippable. And then we had dozens upon dozens of threads about how the cutscenes should be skippable if no one in the instance was a first timer... in which people outright admitted they would leave an instance that did have a first-timer when it meant they would not be able to skip the cutscenes.

If you think that the power differential between an on-level sprout and someone with their full kit would not have people kicking sprouts (or leaving instances immediately), you have not been paying close attention to this community's behavior, historically speaking.

As I've put it before in discussing various things: sometimes players are going to throw spitballs, but that doesn't mean SQEX needs to hand them the paper to do it.

Hell no, low level dungeons are already braindead easy, having your full kit... they might as well just give you the free EXP without doing anything.

No please I would be able to learn muscle memory of my rotation.
It's way better to use 2 skill then 10 then 3 then 7 etc and completely forget to use some skills because you have been sent to low level instances so many times you forgot you have more spells at 60+.

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Originally Posted by DragonFlyy

Example: EQ2 has a level down system where you keep all your gear and skills.

My level 90 Mage, leveled down to 35. Goes into a level 35 dungeon, and aoe's everthing in one shot. The skills are all leveled down to 35, but were designed with level 90 content in mind. So even lowered, it was still too much.

On the flip side of that, it made level 35 content extremely fun lol.

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You don't get loot if a mob is Grey there and mentoring/chonoleveling there makes it possible to go back to old dungeons for things.

They don't have a dungeon finder system built like 14's either last I'd checked. It just isn't comparable.

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Originally Posted by SilverObi

Or worse, having a full rotation but it's hit with the balance stick to account for sync and you barely do any damage but still have all those buttons to press lol

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I'd take that over pressing 1 over 100 times.

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Originally Posted by Mesarthim

And once again people do not know the repercussions of asking for this.

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There are multiple MMO's that have a level sync feature for dungeons and do not take away your skills....You act like this is some unique scenario for FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

I'd take that over pressing 1 over 100 times.



There are multiple MMO's that have a level sync feature for dungeons and do not take away your skills....You act like this is some unique scenario for FFXIV.

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And as far as I can tell all run into the same issues - on level characters just don't get to do anything since their synced down counterparts just steamroll everything. In case you forgot for better or Worse FFXIV has solid amount of content at all levels of progression since they don't just throw everything away as next expansion shows up. Level 50/60/70/80 raids and trials that aren't exactly proofed against some later skills. Giving additional advantage to veterans won't make it exactly fun for on level players. Unless you want to sell more boosts under the pretense that the only fun out there is the end game.

Could never work, jobs gain more potency per sec or how ever you wanna call it as they level. Imagine the lv 15 lancer queueing into sastaha and a lv 80 drg shitting all over him with his skills. This could go 2 ways "wow thats cool" or "fuck this im worthless"

Balancing fights and hp would go out of the window instantly as well. As cool as the idea is, impossible to make it fair.

And even if you had the magic numbers and said ... "dragoon optimally played at lv 90 should do X dps, if we scale that to lv 15 its Y" ... how many players actually play optimal in DF? The lv 90 one would have to pull of his entire rotation to do the same damage the lv 15 lancer does by clicking 1 2 3 ... i can already tell you who's winning that dps race and its not the dragoon haha

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Originally Posted by Ransu

I'd take that over pressing 1 over 100 times.

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Healer mains say hello. This doesn't fix it. As I've said.

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There are multiple MMO's that have a level sync feature for dungeons and do not take away your skills....You act like this is some unique scenario for FFXIV.

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FFXIV isn't one of them and quite frankly isn't built for it. As people have said.

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Originally Posted by Jaquan

And as far as I can tell all run into the same issues - on level characters just don't get to do anything since their synced down counterparts just steamroll everything. In case you forgot for better or Worse FFXIV has solid amount of content at all levels of progression since they don't just throw everything away as next expansion shows up. Level 50/60/70/80 raids and trials that aren't exactly proofed against some later skills. Giving additional advantage to veterans won't make it exactly fun for on level players. Unless you want to sell more boosts under the pretense that the only fun out there is the end game.

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This is complete nonsense. It works perfectly fine in games like swtor, especially with their updated level sync system in 7.0 (one of the few things they did right in 7.0).

Oh? No advantage for synced down? How did they achieve it?

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Originally Posted by KariTheFox

Also, instead of calling them "extreme", since that refers to something already, maybe we should use a different word. Like "expert".

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Intermediate, as that name also implies that its technicaly not considered hard or extreme. Just a middle step. Which if a dungeon just scales up the levels, is a fine enough thing.

And i would make this scaling work on a static value. You can generaly get a good average item level for a team, and have certain expectations regarding damage, survivability etc. And just scale values to that. For bosses you can even make the mechanics more harsh.

There is also no need to make a dungeon scale to player level 77, 60 would do fine enough already (and maybe the next step is 80, while for a diffirent dungeon those tresholds are 50 and 70). Which again can reduce the amount of effort required. For a lvl 44 dungeon you could for example only take lvl 70 and be done with it.

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Originally Posted by Jaquan

Oh? No advantage for synced down? How did they achieve it?

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Solo flashpoints are left at level and you get scaled down to the level of the flashpoint. Same with the open world, player stats and levels are synced down making the planet feel like its level appropriate and you don't just breeze through one shotting things.

Veteran mode (normal) opens up flashpoints at level 15 and bolsters everyone to level 80. Lower level players tend to hit harder than higher level players due to lower gear levels and having less skills so they get bolstered higher. That said swtor is also more generous than ffxiv when it comes to giving out skills. Granted they redesigned progression in 7.0 so you get way less than you used to, but in general your core class skills are handed out by level 15 and the later levels are mostly passives and buffs.

That said, the rest of swtor 7.0 is hot garbage and it makes me sad because I loved swtor....but the new level sync system is fantastic imo. Granted some people hate it because of they don't like the "loss of power" and being unable to solo world bosses, but I think its great.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

Solo flashpoints are left at level and you get scaled down to the level of the flashpoint. Same with the open world, player stats and levels are synced down making the planet feel like its level appropriate and you don't just breeze through one shotting things.

Veteran mode (normal) opens up flashpoints at level 15 and bolsters everyone to level 80. Lower level players tend to hit harder than higher level players due to lower gear levels and having less skills so they get bolstered higher. That said swtor is also more generous than ffxiv when it comes to giving out skills. Granted they redesigned progression in 7.0 so you get way less than you used to, but in general your core class skills are handed out by level 15 and the later levels are mostly passives and buffs.

That said, the rest of swtor 7.0 is hot garbage and it makes me sad because I loved swtor....but the new level sync system is fantastic imo. Granted some people hate it because of they don't like the "loss of power" and being unable to solo world bosses, but I think its great.

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That was the only thing I was sad about in swtor was never being able to attempt to fight a world boss with anything less than a full party. Near the end of playing I called out for a rare dark side boss or something, he was a sith dude in the middle of Hoth, and most people on republic fleet told me to sod off because no one cared. Still managed to get a decent amount of people, but when it gets to the point of not having enough people in the game doing content, world bosses were really hard to get a group together until I found a somewhat active guild, but many played at different hours so the guaranteed group would only be around on the weekends.

The rest of the level syncing was fantastic and miss T7 and chad Qyzen my friend would always bring into flashpoints. Unsure if they could do the same thing with the way dungeons are currently, not having to wait hours for a queue was really nice. It was also super fun and challenging going into the dungeons without all of your skills while leveling. I was very glad once I got my whole kit I would always have it, so there wasn't this constant never really getting to practice a rotation once you got the skills you could have all the time you wanted with them. This game destroys muscle memory and eats it for breakfast than begins to laugh at you while it's kicking your shins. Going from dragoon level 60 to dragoon level 15, I know healers are still depressing ish later, but you really feel it hard sometimes. Even whm, I always swap my assize and cure one with a heavy sigh when I sync down. Guess I don't get to use the fun skills for this duty.

If they really wanted to I would think they could definitely do it, but unsure what they would do, and if they would make it the most horrible possible outcome we could all imagine.

What if we just had more skills at lower levels so instead of getting punished for queuing leveling roulettes you get to actually have fun