They are catering ultimates to casuals like they did with Elden Ring.

I’m a huge advocate against crap like this but I think this is a mild step toward it but not utter catering as well… it’s still ultimate and still requires a lot from everyone

Am I the only one who recognizes that the original post is a work of satire?

Every time i see post about ff xiv gona die because of this one minor thing i check user join date and it's almost always someone who joined during last year or 2.

While valid criticism is good i would prefer people stop getting over dramatic because of it.

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Originally Posted by Alpheus

Game confirmed for babies /s

SE is really sensitive to long MMO fights given what happened when Pandemonium Warden completely ruined that 1 FFXI group. So in my uniformed view they either added this checkpoint for RP or battle length considerations, I can't hold it against the devs either which way as one is a matter of taste and the other to not have a repeat of headlines they didn't take too kindly years ago. But I can only speak for myself lol

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True, having players get physically ill due to the difficulty and time required to complete content should force any gaming company to reconsider their methodology on raid composition, even if for purely legal purposes. Not sure many of the current players know that history considering it was so long ago but I remember.

I think people should wait until its cleared before declaring how bad any content is.

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Originally Posted by Silly_Rabbit

Every time i see post about ff xiv gona die because of this one minor thing i check user join date and it's almost always someone who joined during last year or 2.

While valid criticism is good i would prefer people stop getting over dramatic because of it.

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I don't think Ultimate raids decide anything related to whether or not this game dies, not enough of the player base dedicates their time to Ultimate content.

If the majority of the player base, including the "hardcore" players who do not Ultimate raid and the "casual" players who do not Ultimate raid were to dedicate all of their game play to purely completing Ultimate raids, perhaps then it would.

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Originally Posted by kizumiayamame

This patch is the biggest slap in the face in all of ffxiv. Ultimate raids are supposed to be the highest expression of skill in this game. They're the best designed fights in any mmorpg, and they're the one thing this game had on WoW. And what does sqenix do? Put in a checkpoint like I'm playing new super mario bros with my baby cousins. They purposefully delayed this. Multiple times. E8S was supposed to be bis for this ultimate, except it wasn't. They said that they had to delay content because of covid, and they prioritized other things. That's fine. But then E12S came and went, and still no ultimate. Then we were told Endwalker was on the way, and there were bigger fish to fry. If any of you are unaware, here's a handy little chart:


https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...96/unknown.png

Mark my words, this is the move that will kill their game

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This game has many things on wow ultimate raids aren't one.

Feel free to Explain how Checkpoints are going to Ruin FFXIV and Ultimates.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Feel free to Explain how Checkpoints are going to Ruin FFXIV and Ultimates.

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It does affect ultimates, as ultimates do end up being a fight of resource management. Check points make resource management less important. But EW doesn't have much in resource management anyways. It is just another example of how the game is trying to cater to a more casual player base. Personally I don't do ultimates, but I have no problem with a very challenging fight for those that want to do it, with neat rewards. I prefer a game that has various contents for everyone not cater to a particular group as that is what tends to isolate certain player bases and can lead the game down the wrong path.

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Originally Posted by IdowhatIwant

It does affect ultimates, as ultimates do end up being a fight of resource management. Check points make resource management less important. But EW doesn't have much in resource management anyways. It is just another example of how the game is trying to cater to a more casual player base. Personally I don't do ultimates, but I have no problem with a very challenging fight for those that want to do it, with neat rewards. I prefer a game that has various contents for everyone not cater to a particular group as that is what tends to isolate certain player bases and can lead the game down the wrong path.

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P2 and P3 have mechanics that are much harder to pull out than TEA had in P2 and P3, and people routinely first try P1 anyway.

Checkpoints only serve to make artificial difficulty, because when you master a phase, you don't need to do it every time you want to train on later phases. "But that's what make it interesting !" Even though they were way in advance compared to other groups, TPS still hasn't got passed P3's enrage, even despite the checkpoint.

The only thing it'll change may be the total time to World first, because people will be less tired and make less stupid mistake. But I'm sure, when you'll prog it, you'll find it just as hard, if not harder, than previous fights.

I do think MStowastiqVahlshdeh (I c/ced that) is right. There are LOTS of wow players, even in usually world first raiders that gave up killing the last tier mythic, because they were getting physically ill, they were just way too tired, couldn't focus on the game. This is the symptom of a game that wanks itself about its difficulty and doesn't take into account what players, even hardcore players, want, or what they really want despite what they're saying. You don't want to be exhausted for tryharding for two weeks for bullshit.

All this means is that people who can do the part to the checkpoint just fine don't need to waste time on it, and those who don't will be punished the next time they go out for someone to repair. Overall, a welcome thing, and the only people I see being salty about this are people who for some reason thinks everyone has to suffer like they did. Systems improve over time you know.

I love Elden Ring as much as the next guy, but I cannot WAIT for when the hype dies down so people can stop comparing it to everything under the sun.

User: Take me and my post seriously
Same user: Ultimate = Mario on Wii

https://imgur.com/mnUlJnD.png

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Originally Posted by Droxybrobotnik

All this means is that people who can do the part to the checkpoint just fine don't need to waste time on it, and those who don't will be punished the next time they go out for someone to repair. Overall, a welcome thing, and the only people I see being salty about this are people who for some reason thinks everyone has to suffer like they did. Systems improve over time you know.

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Except this isn't an improvement.
I don't do ultimates, but I can tell you that logic is horribly wrong.

It's an Oprah Participation Trophy.
It has the same feeling as when you have to healer LB3 cheese e12s to get to P2 checkpoint.

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Originally Posted by DubiousDisk

I love Elden Ring as much as the next guy, but I cannot WAIT for when the hype dies down so people can stop comparing it to everything under the sun.

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Don't worry, they'll just go back to slinging around 'Dark Souls' when they need an excuse. Which Dark Souls/Soulsborne game? Doesn't matter, they will find a way to use it to 'prove' some arbitrary and misinformed point, lol. Such is the legacy the series has gained.

So much complaining from people who aren't doing the ultimate nor will clear it anytime soon. The only confirmed checkpoint up to P4 so far has been the P1 to P2, arguably the easiest part of the fight, that once understood, is more aligned to a first tier savage fight (and maybe not even).

P1 is not game defining difficulty at all for a team that understands what they're doing. I've been in a good amount of PFs that have one shot it several times.

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Originally Posted by DubiousDisk

I love Elden Ring as much as the next guy, but I cannot WAIT for when the hype dies down so people can stop comparing it to everything under the sun.

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It's already done. It'll be compared to everything for the rest of our lives sadly. :c Look at BOTW

It's depressing how few people seem to realize this post is satire.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

It's depressing how few people seem to realize this post is satire.

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OP is, lots of people around here are not though, that's why there is an argument...

This is why there are so many trolls on this forum.

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Originally Posted by VirusOnline

Except this isn't an improvement.
I don't do ultimates, but I can tell you that logic is horribly wrong.

It's an Oprah Participation Trophy.
It has the same feeling as when you have to healer LB3 cheese e12s to get to P2 checkpoint.

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So not wasting time isn't an improvement, got it

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Originally Posted by kizumiayamame

This patch is the biggest slap in the face in all of ffxiv. Ultimate raids are supposed to be the highest expression of skill in this game. They're the best designed fights in any mmorpg, and they're the one thing this game had on WoW. And what does sqenix do? Put in a checkpoint like I'm playing new super mario bros with my baby cousins. They purposefully delayed this. Multiple times. E8S was supposed to be bis for this ultimate, except it wasn't. They said that they had to delay content because of covid, and they prioritized other things. That's fine. But then E12S came and went, and still no ultimate. Then we were told Endwalker was on the way, and there were bigger fish to fry. If any of you are unaware, here's a handy little chart:


https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...96/unknown.png

Mark my words, this is the move that will kill their game

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Considering OP hasen't cleared 3/4 ultimate's and no one has finished DSR...... /facepalm

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Originally Posted by Droxybrobotnik

So not wasting time isn't an improvement, got it

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If prog is "wasting time" then let's put checkpoints after every single mechanic so people can be done with Ultimates faster than they're done with Savage.

While this specific checkpoint is rather inoffensive, if not weird because... The phase is so short and easy there isn't a lot of time to waste on it, it's not a good logic because fully exploiting the argument would change the target demographic of Ultimate.

i guess OP doesn't know what a door boss is. Delete this thread.

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Originally Posted by forsakee

Considering OP hasen't cleared 3/4 ultimate's and no one has finished DSR...... /facepalm

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What in the original post made you take it seriously. Was it the amazingly beautiful chart? Was it the elden ring comparison?

I haven't cleared an ultimate, and I'm perfectly fine saying that as they require quite a bit of dedication. Maybe I could do UWU or UCOB, but I'm not going to anytime soon.

But this is completely a bait post.

A door boss is NOT catering to casuals at all. If anything. it's there to let you know...."maybe ultimate isn't for you". If your team can't clear the door boss...then your team isn't going to clear the next 30 min fight. Honestly, this is what they did for Alexzander with Faust, and it was a DPS check to let you know...if you can't kill the door boss....you're NOT going to clear the actual boss. This is MIRRORED in Elden Ring with margit the fell omen, as he is simply there to TEACH you either git gud....or go level.

Ultimate's from my understanding is NOT for everyone. Those that attempt and clear savage is already a small percentage of the player base, and ultimate is even smaller then that.....soooooo I highly doubt you will see "the casuals" thinking "finally now I can complete ultimate". Please.

And with the Elden Ring reference. I'm just laughing at this.

I was one of those dumb players that just learned Margits patterns at level 15, I got gud. I started a new character and DESTROYED margit at level 30. Stupid game giving me the ability to level and get stronger....so casual.

Should Elden Ring remove ALL sites of grace and shrines of marika? Because those are catering to casuals super hard. Geez git gud!

Nothing makes me sigh more then this STUPID casual vs. gamer conversation. I am a "casual" gamer, but I engage in savage content, I play dark souls, demons souls, elden ring, sekiro, and a multitude of other games, and I find them all hard in their own right, but NOT completely inaccessible. When a game can teach you by making you try something else...that's a well designed game.

FFXIV can be face roll easy sometimes, or it can be STUPID hard sometimes.

Example: My FC ran Ultima Unreal...and we were QUICKLY humbled by just how Ultima is to be respected even at level 90. It's not savage hard...but it has some very good indicators of how ARR high end fights were designed. Honestly, I love that there isn't a Tank Buster indicator, or when the tank swap should happen. Reminds me of old WoW fight design. And I love it. We have basically cleared it 4 times a week to get our troll mounts.

Difficulty is entirely SUBJECTIVE. What you think is easy, might be hard for others.

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Originally Posted by ZedxKayn

If prog is "wasting time" then let's put checkpoints after every single mechanic so people can be done with Ultimates faster than they're done with Savage.

While this specific checkpoint is rather inoffensive, if not weird because... The phase is so short and easy there isn't a lot of time to waste on it, it's not a good logic because fully exploiting the argument would change the target demographic of Ultimate.

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But they are progging. Every time someone needs to go out and repair or buy more food/tinctures the first part has to be redone, and if you are having troubles passing it again then you are obviously not yet ready and need to train more. Checkpoints only exists so you don't need to redo things you don't need more practice in because of a tiny mistake.

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Originally Posted by Droxybrobotnik

But they are progging. Every time someone needs to go out and repair or buy more food/tinctures the first part has to be redone, and if you are having troubles passing it again then you are obviously not yet ready and need to train more. Checkpoints only exists so you don't need to redo things you don't need more practice in because of a tiny mistake.

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The only "valid" argument I could see from the side that "hates" these checkpoints is that you can essentially "get lucky" and get past the first phase, or go all out to hit the checkpoint and then die and reset.

That being said, I don't do Ultimate content and don't care either way. But it seemed like part of the "draw" with Ultimate content was the "marathon" fight where you needed to stay engaged the full fight. This does sort of take away from that.

However, there's nothing stopping the people who "need" the additional difficulty from challenging themselves to beat it without using the checkpoints. But, it still seems to be difficult.

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Originally Posted by Waterscape

i guess OP doesn't know what a door boss is. Delete this thread.

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Irl we call door bosses bouncers :D

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Originally Posted by Saraide

What in the original post made you take it seriously. Was it the amazingly beautiful chart? Was it the elden ring comparison?

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If OP's post is satire I'm far from impressed. The chart made in paint was the only good thing...

I get what OPs saying. Like if e12s didn't have a checkpoint I think it would've been harder to complete. It gives players more opportunities to make mistakes like on lions mechanic.

Given how theres some missing aspects from the screenshots devs have shown from the fight with the current WF runners feels like there could be an entire 2nd version of the fight, if so the tiny checkpoint after the 1st phase is truely not that big if a deal...

Well as it turns out there is a very good reason for why there is a checkpoint. And if you fail it again, the bosses get more up.

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Originally Posted by Havenchild

So much complaining from people who aren't doing the ultimate

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I kinda find this funny. Perspectives are nice...but your word would carry more Weight if you actually play it.

Well this thread sure aged poorly, as expected.

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Originally Posted by Sailysium

Well this thread sure aged poorly, as expected.

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Lmao, i came here to say the exact same thing xD

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kizumiayamame

This patch is the biggest slap in the face in all of ffxiv. Ultimate raids are supposed to be the highest expression of skill in this game. They're the best designed fights in any mmorpg, and they're the one thing this game had on WoW. And what does sqenix do? Put in a checkpoint like I'm playing new super mario bros with my baby cousins. They purposefully delayed this. Multiple times. E8S was supposed to be bis for this ultimate, except it wasn't. They said that they had to delay content because of covid, and they prioritized other things. That's fine. But then E12S came and went, and still no ultimate. Then we were told Endwalker was on the way, and there were bigger fish to fry. If any of you are unaware, here's a handy little chart:


https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...96/unknown.png

Mark my words, this is the move that will kill their game

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have you played elden ring its not exacly casual friendly lol

Unless you consinder god like players casual you auto dimiss ur wording with that

and to be honest wow is more casual friendly than elden ring the amount of grinding for your build the amount of practice with your new weapon that you love and amount of math envovled in your build lol

damn i wish ffxiv was like elden ring then real pros who can understand their weapon and how to use it would teach a thing or 2

I know an ultimate progger that hates the door boss - not because it makes the fight "easier" or anything. But because when his gear breaks he has to leave the instance and kill progression, and now he feels obligated to level up crafting in order to repair his own stuff.

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Originally Posted by KariTheFox

I know an ultimate progger that hates the door boss - not because it makes the fight "easier" or anything. But because when his gear breaks he has to leave the instance and kill progression, and now he feels obligated to level up crafting in order to repair his own stuff.

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That's true in savage as well. But then the problem doesn't come from the door boss, it comes from the player. At least check your gear before instancing in, it should be able to last the entire instance...

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Originally Posted by Droxybrobotnik

So not wasting time isn't an improvement, got it

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Being able to consistently clear a phase because of cohesive understanding of the group is one thing, cheesing is another.
A good improvement to Ultimate may be to make the content even more difficult while cutting down the time of the encounter.

I'll take quality over quantity, especially concerning difficult content.

Isn't there a time warp mechanic after the end of phase 4?