Patch 6.1 Notes

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Originally Posted by Ransu

Healers in every MMO are limited in their dps kits. FFXIV isn't unique in that nature and its intentional because you can't have a class that's focus is healing while also having a strong offensive kit. FFXIV may be a bit more extreme than most, but in general its normal for healer classes in MMO's to only have 3 or 4 attacks and maybe a dot.

So ya, I don't really have any sympathy for people playing healers and complaining about not having more damaging skills. You're a healer, your job is to heal.

edit because this forum has an idiotic daily post limit:



I don't agree with tanks having a stupid amount of self healing either. They should have strong damage mitigation to deal with cleaves\tank busters\big pulls and what not and yes I also agree that there should be more outgoing damage in certain content. I'm sorry that you think the argument is so one dimensional and your only retort is to call people "simps."

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I have never played a healer in ANY MMO ever that spammed a single DPS skill more than 100 times in a dungeon, representing at least 70% of the skills used.

i have never played a healer in ANY MMO , even in a pure healing spec, where i was limited to only 2 DPS skills or three DPS skills- I didn't have many in that spec , but i would have a couple more, and with classes that had almost no self-heals.

I'm not asking for sympathy from you, it really doesn't sound like you know anything about healing ,based upon my experience it doesn't fit any game I have played within the past twenty years.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

So ya, I don't really have any sympathy for people playing healers and complaining about not having more damaging skills. You're a healer, your job is to heal.

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What if we're so good at our job that we've spent only 10% of the fight to keep our party alive and healthy and have the other 90% as downtime. You're saying it's good that we're punished for playing well and efficiently, by only having one button to press? Why should a role feel worse to play the better you play it?

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Originally Posted by AnotherPerson

You try to say "You're a healer, your job is to heal."
And then have nothing to heal for the next 30+ seconds because healing is overpowered in this game.

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Yet again I see this take. I get it, there's people skilled enough to know how to managed everyone's HP making the job very trivial, but 30 seconds of straight dps with no healing in between? like please elaborate on the situations where thats even possible. It sure aint during mobs pulls where wall to wall requires pumping out them heals to that tank unless they're a warrior. I can maybe see this during boss fights or trials where you have more down time to dps and the fact that you have a co-healer alleviates much of the responsibility.

Basically what Im getting at is that Ive been running a bunch of group content. A lot of it while I was leveling up my healing jobs and no where was I so brain-dead enough where I didnt wind up using my toolkit and just spamming my one button. This is the take that completely baffles me because I just dont see it. I can only believe this for like Savage raids as Ive ran with my static who definitely proves the whole less heal more dps statement but I still feel like this is not something that happens consistently if were just generalizing.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Yet again I see this take. I get it, there's people skilled enough to know how to managed everyone's HP making the job very trivial, but 30 seconds of straight dps with no healing in between? like please elaborate on the situations where thats even possible. It sure aint during mobs pulls where wall to wall requires pumping out them heals to that tank unless they're a warrior. I can maybe see this during boss fights or trials where you have more down time to dps and the fact that you have a co-healer alleviates much of the responsibility.

Basically what Im getting at is that Ive been running a bunch of group content. A lot of it while I was leveling up my healing jobs and no where was I so brain-dead enough where I didnt wind up using my toolkit and just spamming my one button. This is the take that completely baffles me because I just dont see it. I can only believe this for like Savage raids as Ive ran with my static who definitely proves the whole less heal more dps statement but I still feel like this is not something that happens consistently if were just generalizing.

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Dungeons as sage i literally use haima and kerachole and that’s enough for an entire pull. Maaaybe a taurochole if necessary but that’s it, and then panhaima and kerachole for the next pull. Those are all ogcd’s btw, so i’m still 100% dps spamming in my dungeon runs.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Yet again I see this take. I get it, there's people skilled enough to know how to managed everyone's HP making the job very trivial, but 30 seconds of straight dps with no healing in between? like please elaborate on the situations where thats even possible. It sure aint during mobs pulls where wall to wall requires pumping out them heals to that tank unless they're a warrior. I can maybe see this during boss fights or trials where you have more down time to dps and the fact that you have a co-healer alleviates much of the responsibility.

Basically what Im getting at is that Ive been running a bunch of group content. A lot of it while I was leveling up my healing jobs and no where was I so brain-dead enough where I didnt wind up using my toolkit and just spamming my one button. This is the take that completely baffles me because I just dont see it. I can only believe this for like Savage raids as Ive ran with my static who definitely proves the whole less heal more dps statement but I still feel like this is not something that happens consistently if were just generalizing.

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even during wall to wall pulls a heal can DPS unless the tank is (a) not using CDs (b) really under geared (c) you're at an exceptional dungeon such as Holminster, where DPSing may be problematic or (d) DPs are basically not using their skills

Otherwise all healers can throw out DoTs, WHM can throw out significant damage while Holy is up, and SGEs can throw out damage while the tank is pulling, DPs and mitigate pre-pull so that they're not 'pumping out heals',

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Yet again I see this take. I get it, there's people skilled enough to know how to managed everyone's HP making the job very trivial, but 30 seconds of straight dps with no healing in between? like please elaborate on the situations where thats even possible. It sure aint during mobs pulls where wall to wall requires pumping out them heals to that tank unless they're a warrior. I can maybe see this during boss fights or trials where you have more down time to dps and the fact that you have a co-healer alleviates much of the responsibility.

Basically what Im getting at is that Ive been running a bunch of group content. A lot of it while I was leveling up my healing jobs and no where was I so brain-dead enough where I didnt wind up using my toolkit and just spamming my one button. This is the take that completely baffles me because I just dont see it. I can only believe this for like Savage raids as Ive ran with my static who definitely proves the whole less heal more dps statement but I still feel like this is not something that happens consistently if were just generalizing.

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It's more effective to take 3 dps and a Warrior/PLD/GNB over a usual 1 healer 2 dps 1 tank in max level dungeons. I believe 8 tanks have cleared both p1s and p2s as well.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Yet again I see this take. I get it, there's people skilled enough to know how to managed everyone's HP making the job very trivial, but 30 seconds of straight dps with no healing in between? like please elaborate on the situations where thats even possible. It sure aint during mobs pulls where wall to wall requires pumping out them heals to that tank unless they're a warrior. I can maybe see this during boss fights or trials where you have more down time to dps and the fact that you have a co-healer alleviates much of the responsibility.

Basically what Im getting at is that Ive been running a bunch of group content. A lot of it while I was leveling up my healing jobs and no where was I so brain-dead enough where I didnt wind up using my toolkit and just spamming my one button. This is the take that completely baffles me because I just dont see it. I can only believe this for like Savage raids as Ive ran with my static who definitely proves the whole less heal more dps statement but I still feel like this is not something that happens consistently if were just generalizing.

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Yes, even if it's a PLD, a GNB, or a DRK. I've done this for all tanks as a Sage, SCH, and AST and in wall to wall pulls. (WHM is suffering in this expansion, but you can pretty much do the same with a a couple more GCD heals since their gimmick is about GCD healing). You can pretty much talk to any healer main in the healer forums. The key point is to take advantage of your cooldowns and weave them in between without immediately panicking because damage is highly scripted. It's the same thing as cycling your healing abilities like a tank does, except you have ridiculously more abilities than a tank for the cases where a player 'may' make a mistake. If it's on a WAR, it just means I press nothing except maybe Physis II and Kerachole (and that's overkill with their equilibrium healing a ton when their Bloodwhetting is down). If it's a PLD, GNB, or DRK, it means I just add Haima in addition to Krasis, Physis II, and Kerachole. If they're extremely bad, then I use my remaining toolkit (Holos, Panhaima, Soteria) in addition to my addersgall. And this is where I can have an entire fight without a GCD spent on healing. That's basically 100% DPS uptime. Players have to mess up considerably for me to even consider dipping into my GCD healing because of how overtuned healing is when you take into account of tank mitigation & healing in general.

I had more of a struggle in Aurum Vale because of the ILVL and limited healing skills than any dungeons above ARR because we have so much access to healing abilities as a result of all the expansions only giving us healing tools and nothing else but healing tools.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

Healers in every MMO are limited in their dps kits. FFXIV isn't unique in that nature and its intentional because you can't have a class that's focus is healing while also having a strong offensive kit.

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Ah yes, this is where we decide to forget that SCH was literally SMN with a healing kit so we can tell healer mains how they are supposed to do their job.

What does the new auto target option mean?

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Originally Posted by CoolCat

What does the new auto target option mean?

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If you dont have a target selected while using a target based ability (lets say, shield lob) the game will automatically make you hit the nearest target instead of canceling your attack.

I had the impression they're going to nerf Eureka relics in patch 6.1 because of previous statements. I feel disappointed not to see a single change in that regard....

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Originally Posted by Ransu

Healers in every MMO are limited in their dps kits. FFXIV isn't unique in that nature and its intentional because you can't have a class that's focus is healing while also having a strong offensive kit. FFXIV may be a bit more extreme than most, but in general its normal for healer classes in MMO's to only have 3 or 4 attacks and maybe a dot.

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Frankly I don't care if you don't have "sympathy for healers," because I don't particularly believe that you have a real understanding of what you yourself are saying, since not even you can bring yourself to say that things are perfect. If they're in an "extreme" place, then criticism is warranted, and adjustments are most likely necessary. Particularly, if we are going to be making a single-player game out of this MMO, then certain designs should be addressed and updated, even if it's going to be only for solo-play.

We're (generally) not even asking for healers (and tanks, too, by the way) to be provided a strong DPS kit, or to be provided with more power, even if that would make them more in-line with the design direction of the game. We're wanting for the development team to ease up on the limitations, however, because we have too much healing and not enough of anything else, and being given more healing on top of the already excessive amount of we already have is too much in the wrong direction for the way the rest of the game is going. We're asking for more substance, more to do in a general sense, DPS being the simplest, because, right now, we're not able to do much more besides DPS with a side order of healing, and healing, by your own admission, is what we're meant to be doing. And since we can't make the healing the main dish, because Yoshi-P is afraid of scaring off the kids, we need something else to provide us with more excitement other than the random casual playerbase's moth-like tendency for flailing bodily into the flashy, colorful flames and searing bright lights, all of which generally get handled by only using one or two of the 10+ "sparkle buttons" we have. You might not particularly like it, but we're healers, not your mother or baby-sitter, and we're certainly not being paid enough to be either, so we need game to actually play besides sitting there and waiting for you to make a fucky-wucky and drag you out of the forever-box.

Which, guess what: if you don't happen to do that, then we were there for nothing.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Basically what Im getting at is that Ive been running a bunch of group content. A lot of it while I was leveling up my healing jobs and no where was I so brain-dead enough where I didnt wind up using my toolkit and just spamming my one button. This is the take that completely baffles me because I just dont see it. I can only believe this for like Savage raids as Ive ran with my static who definitely proves the whole less heal more dps statement but I still feel like this is not something that happens consistently if were just generalizing.

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Look, you're not alone. I'm not the bestest-most-wonderful healer either, who has time-tables memorized, confidence in my pug parties (and I never will), and, frankly, I like pushing buttons. So I generally press more than the 2 buttons I talked about above when I go through the wall-to-wall pulls, partly because I believe it's necessary, and partly because I like the sparkles.
But even I know that, once I've pressed my 1 GCD regen and 2 favorite OGCD healing buttons, to stack even more regens (I'm an AST main), I don't usually need to press anything else for a big pull. Especially these days, when WAR and PLD players typically don't need my help to survive. On the off chance that I do, in fact, need to press another heal, it's going to likely be because the DPS is too low and the pull isn't ending as fast as usual (at which point, here comes another round of that GCD regen), or it's because the tank isn't using mitigation or isn't wearing at least near-level appropriate gear.
So, for the most part, I'm singling out and continually pressing a single DPS button, my 1 AOE attack, for those situations. And that's not good gameplay, and it will certainly be worse in a single-player experience, and it will certainly get worse as the ilevels increase over time. That's just how this game works right now, and it needs to be looked at because it's only getting worse.

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I had the impression they're going to nerf Eureka relics in patch 6.1 because of previous statements. I feel disappointed not to see a single change in that regard....

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Perhaps in upcoming patches? I think they know Eureka relics are an issue, but perhaps they just don't see the problem yet.
They do that, sometimes. A lot.

The fact that basically all raid content in the game has been solo healed and dungeons being doable with no healers at all says enough about the incoming damage being way too low.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

The fact that basically all raid content in the game has been solo healed and dungeons being doable with no healers at all says enough about the incoming damage being way too low.

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It's not necessarily that. That's really oversimplifying all of the changes.

If you even take into the account all of the self heals that tanks have, there is actually a fair amount of damage that is being healed through. plus virtually every job has its own mitigation - of course much less than tanks. Add to that - at least in normal content- that mechanics usually are telegraphed and can be avoided after a dungeon or similar content has been done a few times.

SE has already stated that they wouldn't amp up the healing difficulty, which makes distributing all of the additional healing skills to other jobs without really looking at how it affects healers jobs even worse.

Should someone start an actual patch note discussion thread so y'all can have yet another thread dedicated to discussing the abysmal state of healing?

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Originally Posted by Hasrat

Should someone start an actual patch note discussion thread so y'all can have yet another thread dedicated to discussing the abysmal state of healing?

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You may think the "120+ page thread about the previous liveletter of telling healers that want more engagement outside of 2 button DPS do that, but clearly it didn't. He told healers to play Ultimate. Healers don't even need to do Extreme to see the glaring problem in a SOLO INSTANCE from the MSQ. The original question was about the lack of DPS options, but the question was rephrased into "content too easy, not difficult enough" during the liveletter... people weren't asking for more damage. They were asking for something else to do because the developers have made it clear that there won't be more damage.

That's why healers are so mad, and have been mad for 2 expansions now. If the patch notes doesn't do anything about it, you can bet it's going to come up again. It's already all over healer forums.

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Originally Posted by Nekokaori

Where is our personaly islands... ~_~

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Wait for Emet-Setch to conjure you one.

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Originally Posted by AnotherPerson

That's why healers are so mad, and have been mad for 2 expansions now. If the patch notes doesn't do anything about it, you can bet it's going to come up again. It's already all over healer forums.

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Exactly, the debate is already being held there. It is an in-depth discussion about something that is not being altered by the current patch.

Regardless of whether it should be altered, this is a thread for discussing things that are changing in the current patch.

Regarding the change to how many characters you can have per world, I would guess that it might be due to the Materia data centre only having five worlds, so if you want to put all your characters there then it's impossible to have one per world and use the full eight you're entitled to on the entry sub.

I am super excited about the auto-target! I came here from WoW a few months ago, and that was one thing I missed a lot! (I was able to put it into skill macros in WoW.)

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Originally Posted by Shirala

I am super excited about the auto-target! I came here from WoW a few months ago, and that was one thing I missed a lot! (I was able to put it into skill macros in WoW.)

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Auto target has always been there as an option, and I am pretty sure it's on by default. They are adding a "Line of sight" option to add to the normal "closest".

The macro command for it is "/targetenemy"

https://i.gyazo.com/77d0bed81131b790...baee5b3d00.png

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Originally Posted by Shibi

Auto target has always been there as an option, and I am pretty sure it's on by default. They are adding a "Line of sight" option to add to the normal "closest".

The macro command for it is "/targetenemy"

https://i.gyazo.com/77d0bed81131b790...baee5b3d00.png

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Nope, from what I understand, the new one is different. Currently that setting only auto-targets something that's hitting you. The new version lets you target something automatically when you press a skill. Of course I could be wrong, but if so, all the gaming magazine article authors are wrong as well.

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Originally Posted by Shirala

Nope, from what I understand, the new one is different. Currently that setting only auto-targets something that's hitting you. The new version lets you target something automatically when you press a skill. Of course I could be wrong, but if so, all the gaming magazine article authors are wrong as well.

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Yes, the new one will be different, and much nicer, but you can do it now the way you asked for... please do try it if you can before maintenance... walk into some low level enemies with your weapon sheathed, hand type the macro command:

/targetenemy

The nearest one in your view will be targetted.

recall you did say

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...that was one thing I missed a lot! (I was able to put it into skill macros in WoW.)

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We've gotten to the point where every thread devolves into healers malding.

Please do something so this madness will end, SE.

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Originally Posted by Shirala

I am super excited about the auto-target! I came here from WoW a few months ago, and that was one thing I missed a lot! (I was able to put it into skill macros in WoW.)

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This will fix all my controller woes because whenever I used skills on my D-Pad up/down there was a chance that I was too quick and targetet myself, loosing precious miliseconds (sometimes even a second or two) until I realized I was targeting myself because up/down switches through party members... So yeah I was pretty hyped when I read that.

I added full patch notes at 1st post :)

Im feeling crushed by seeing only 6 wards for private owners. I had high hopes for the chance to get my own small plot but seeing that now i feel my chances are basically non existent.

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Originally Posted by AziraSyuren

We've gotten to the point where every thread devolves into healers malding.

Please do something so this madness will end, SE.

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A testament to how truly wretched their healer design is. Maybe they should get someone who knows how to do that.

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Originally Posted by xenahawk

Im feeling crushed by seeing only 6 wards for private owners. I had high hopes for the chance to get my own small plot but seeing that now i feel my chances are basically non existent.

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Same. There was also no mention of (that I'm aware of) what happens to those who already own plots in wards that are going to be designated as FC wards. If they decide to kick me out I'm going to be extremely upset. I'm currently in ward 9 of Shirogane.

Only just now made a linked forum account just to reply to this lol

Came to say I love all the QoL for the most part, but I am one of the many disappointed by the Hrothgar ears.
It's my understanding that Yoshi-P has heard the feedback but I just wanted to add my voice to the mix.

Otherwise very excited for whats to come, this patch has a lot going for it!

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Originally Posted by Shibi

Yes, the new one will be different, and much nicer, but you can do it now the way you asked for... please do try it if you can before maintenance... walk into some low level enemies with your weapon sheathed, hand type the macro command:

/targetenemy

The nearest one in your view will be targetted.

recall you did say

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Yes, I know about this, but when I tried it, every time I'd use the macro it would switch to a different target. Let's hope that isn't the case with this change.

Has anyone try to only turn on "Enable full auto-target" and off "Auto-target according to priority"?

"Enable full auto-target" alone does nothing?

The function as described is not working as it was intended. I am confused but it is working whatever in from of me by spamming keys.

I feel like they did not test with Mouse in Standard and Legacy mode for those auto-target. The function is mixed up with camera mode; what I meant is that one function base on character facing and one base on camera facing.