[Spoilers] Garlemald is a wasted opportunity

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Originally Posted by HappyHubris

Who know that the world-conquering Garlean empire was really a medium-sized town all along.

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The same people who knew that a city which, by lore, wasn't much bigger than Ulduh was actually the size of an entire, very large zone. (See: The Lochs and all its subterranean developments.)

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Originally Posted by Veloran

More than the specific story within the zone, I think a lot of disappointment is derived from the near-total destruction of the Garlean aesthetic and culture before we even really got to see it. Half the Garlemald zone is a complete pile of rubble, and the other half is just a snowy wasteland, so there's really no space outside of maybe the subway station to get any hint of their advanced magitek lifestyle and design. People wanted to see FF7 Midgar and instead we got FF6 World of Ruin. The Legions in the area are also either tempered or utterly destroyed, so instead of a situation where we need to make uneasy allies with the Garleans to go after Zenos, which would have allowed us to see the Garlean military from the other side, we ultimately end up just taking pity on some broken and hostile refugees, which is hardly something new to XIV.

And as it stands Garlemald and it's people just appear to be so obliterated that it's hard to consider any sort of story going forward with them. There might be a few Legions left out there, the clearly not-dead Gabranth and Gaius running around, but for all intents and purposes the Garleans as a faction appear to be done for - And we didn't even really get to see or involve ourselves with it's downfall, beyond the notion of a domino effect.

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It's exactly that! They hyped us so much with Garlean Empire so when opportunity arrived to finally visit it ourselves and partake of their culture, technology, way of living. To see Garlean Empire in it's civilian setting, not militarian. And when we arrive it's nothing but snow and debris.

I think it wasn't a good idea to bring such destruction to the capital. I mean, it sort of works storywise but yeah, opportunity sorely missed.

I would like to see a Garlean Reconstruction zone similar to the Doman Reconstruction zone in Stormblood. Perhaps a future expansion could have a different district of the capital rebuilt and serving as the main city hub for the expansion.

There isn't really anything in the game that is built to scale. What we see is always a small slice of a much bigger whole. The recent FFVII Remake managed to capture the sheer scale of a city as large as Midgar, but even then there were only specific parts that could be explored.

Don't get me wrong - I would love FFXIV's zone design to be bigger and bolder than it is. I play ESO on the side and it's always a treat to get lost in a bout of whimsical exploration. To see what is inside every accessible building and to immerse myself in whatever new locales are added. I wish FFXIV had bigger settlements, to facilitate role-play and player engagement with the world itself more easily. It is what it is, though.

I wanted to know more about the Xth Legion.

As in, the legion that, when faced with the same choice that the Ist had, chose to bend rather than break, and ask the Eorzean Alliance for help.

That seems like a far more interesting story to tell than that of Quintus, if only because that story will continue rather than simply ending.

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Originally Posted by YianKutku

I wanted to know more about the Xth Legion.

As in, the legion that, when faced with the same choice that the Ist had, chose to bend rather than break, and ask the Eorzean Alliance for help.

That seems like a far more interesting story to tell than that of Quintus, if only because that story will continue rather than simply ending.

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I keep saying it over and over (due to my own hopes), but maybe in Corvos? Really hoping it's the new relic zone and we get a bunch of storytelling with the Garleans there.

Speaking of the Legions, which ones are left? We've gone up against the XIVth, the VIIth (twice) the VIth, XIIth, IVth, Ist, and IIIrd. The Xth is accounted for, which leaves Legions II, V, VIII, IX, XI, and XIII in the winds. Wonder if we'll see them and if they support the Xth.

Current Status of Garlean Imperial Legions:

Ist: refugees in Garlemald, formerly led by the late Quintus van Cinna. Now under the de facto leadership of Jullus pyr Norbanus.
IInd: Unknown.
IIIrd: led by Vergilia van Corculum. Cured of tempering to Anima; status otherwise unknown.
IVth: went rogue and attempted but failed to establish dominion over Bozja / Dalmasca under the orders of their legatus, Noah van Gabranth. Status otherwise unknown.
Vth: Unknown.
VIth: dispatched to Azys Lla to unearth Allagan eikon binding technology, but deemed Allagan methods unworthy; Legatus Regula van Hydrus killed in action. Status otherwise unknown.
VIIth: formerly led by Nael van Darnus, who saw the Meteor Project to fruition in 1.X; routed by the Seventh Umbral Calamity, Legatus van Darnus killed in action. Reformed under the leadership of Valens van Varro and stationed in Werlyt, but Legatus van Varro was defeated and killed by defector Gaius Baelsar. Status otherwise unknown.
VIIIth: Unknown.
IXth: Unknown.
Xth: Surrendered to the Grand Company of Eorzea. Leading Legatus and status otherwise unknown.
XIth: Unknown.
XIIth: formerly led by Zenos yae Galvus, stationed in Gyr Abania and Yanxia. Uprisings against Imperial rule saw the legion ousted from its provinces; survivors taken as PoWs. Former legatus yae Galvus complicit in starting the civil war that all but destroyed the Empire, stripped of his title and given the disgraceful "viator" instead.
XIIIth: Unknown.
XIVth: formerly led by Legatus Gaius van Baelsar; went rogue on the legatus' orders attempting to conquer Eorzea, but failed. All but destroyed in Operation Archon, survivors are holed up in various Imperial Castra across Eorzea. Former legatus van Baelsar survived but deserted, and now leads reconstruction efforts in Werlyt.

I felt like Garlemald was handled well. As this avenue of story telling allowed them show unique situation the people were in without the overreaching political power that has overshadowed much of the story.

Most other story paths to Garlemald would have needed a direct invasion of Garlemald and would have slowed the momentum of the story if we had to invade full scale. To take this thought further, I see this avenue of the story as the most interesting because it's a Japanese company showing us a fantasy retelling of Americans coming to Japan after the drop of the atomic bomb. The allegory can't be lost here because of it's ability to show humanity on both sides of the conflict.

Their most important story will be what comes after this. We clearly have a patch story coming where we'll visit Jullus and the twins. And maybe Gaius will be involved. At this point I'd be disappointed if we didn't reconstruct Garlemald.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

Current Status of Garlean Imperial Legions:

Ist: refugees in Garlemald, formerly led by the late Quintus van Cinna. Now under the de facto leadership of Jullus pyr Norbanus.
IInd: Unknown.
IIIrd: led by Vergilia van Corculum. Cured of tempering to Anima; status otherwise unknown.
IVth: went rogue and attempted but failed to establish dominion over Bozja / Dalmasca under the orders of their legatus, Noah van Gabranth. Status otherwise unknown.
Vth: Unknown.
VIth: dispatched to Azys Lla to unearth Allagan eikon binding technology, but deemed Allagan methods unworthy; Legatus Regula van Hydrus killed in action. Status otherwise unknown.
VIIth: formerly led by Nael van Darnus, who saw the Meteor Project to fruition in 1.X; routed by the Seventh Umbral Calamity, Legatus van Darnus killed in action. Reformed under the leadership of Valens van Varro and stationed in Werlyt, but Legatus van Varro was defeated and killed by defector Gaius Baelsar. Status otherwise unknown.
VIIIth: Unknown.
IXth: Unknown.
Xth: Surrendered to the Grand Company of Eorzea. Leading Legatus and status otherwise unknown.
XIth: Unknown.
XIIth: formerly led by Zenos yae Galvus, stationed in Gyr Abania and Yanxia. Uprisings against Imperial rule saw the legion ousted from its provinces; survivors taken as PoWs. Former legatus yae Galvus complicit in starting the civil war that all but destroyed the Empire, stripped of his title and given the disgraceful "viator" instead.
XIIIth: Unknown.
XIVth: formerly led by Legatus Gaius van Baelsar; went rogue on the legatus' orders attempting to conquer Eorzea, but failed. All but destroyed in Operation Archon, survivors are holed up in various Imperial Castra across Eorzea. Former legatus van Baelsar survived but deserted, and now leads reconstruction efforts in Werlyt.

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For additional potential weirdness:

During the part where Lucia gets the report about the failed attempt by the Xth to retake Garlemald, she says the Xth was trying to coordinate with "the aid of the IVth, Vth, VIIIth, and XIIth". The failure was apparently because most of the Xth's conscripts deserted, and communications between the legions broke down. (As usual, the grammar in the dialogue leaves it vague whether these events are correlated, causation, or coincidence.)

Which, given the alleged status of the IVth and XIIth, is a little odd. Maybe Lucia was summarizing (understandably given the situation), and it was actually "the loyalist remnants of the IVth and XIIth".

I'm willing to bet that at least one of the remaining Legions had probably gone exploring beyond the Three Great Continents, and may have made its way to the other two major landmasses only to later return and find that things had gone to hell in Garlemald. They would probably be our ticket to reaching those lands.

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Originally Posted by SaitoHikari

I'm willing to bet that at least one of the remaining Legions had probably gone exploring beyond the Three Great Continents, and may have made its way to the other two major landmasses only to later return and find that things had gone to hell in Garlemald. They would probably be our ticket to reaching those lands.

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oooh I like that! and that gives the developers a reason to have the Garlean magitek-style mobs in a 7.0 zone so those assets can still be used

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Originally Posted by Cilia

Current Status of Garlean Imperial Legions:
XIVth: formerly led by Legatus Gaius van Baelsar; went rogue on the legatus' orders attempting to conquer Eorzea, but failed. All but destroyed in Operation Archon, survivors are holed up in various Imperial Castra across Eorzea. Former legatus van Baelsar survived but deserted, and now leads reconstruction efforts in Werlyt.

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If I recall the Reaper quests, remnants of the XIV are engaged in a sort of black market trading in Eorzea, acting as competition to the local Ul'dahian monopoly. They could desert and return home, but they find it more valuable to remain in Eorzea, and use the imperial infrastructure there to produce ceruleum and sell it at a profit in exchange for money to send back home. It's illegal to sell things to the imperials, but the law didn't have anything against buying from them, and the high demand for ceruleum meant the risk is worth it due to the profits involved.

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Originally Posted by LystAP

If I recall the Reaper quests, remnants of the XIV are engaged in a sort of black market trading in Eorzea, acting as competition to the local Ul'dahian monopoly. They could desert and return home, but they find it more valuable to remain in Eorzea, and use the imperial infrastructure there to produce ceruleum and sell it at a profit in exchange for money to send back home. It's illegal to sell things to the imperials, but the law didn't have anything against buying from them, and the high demand for ceruleum meant the risk is worth it due to the profits involved.

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They're garlean defectors but I don't think it was specified that they were specifically from XIV legion or anything. Just garleans in general.

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Originally Posted by Bright-Flower

They're garlean defectors but I don't think it was specified that they were specifically from XIV legion or anything. Just garleans in general.

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They're named stragglers, which considering where she says this, most likely mean the garrison at Castrum Meridianum, which is part of the XIV legion. There's nothing that indicates that they're defectors, but they are working with defectors, such as the Lemures, to make the trade.
https://i.imgur.com/EUoOJB2.png
Honestly, if I recall previous lore, almost all of the garrisons in Eorzea have essentially been abandoned to their own devices. None of them have technically defected or surrendered, it's just that Garlean command hasn't bothered with them at all. And now with the events of Endwalker, they might as well be completely cut off from the rest of the Empire.

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Originally Posted by Kesey

I felt like Garlemald was handled well. As this avenue of story telling allowed them show unique situation the people were in without the overreaching political power that has overshadowed much of the story.

Most other story paths to Garlemald would have needed a direct invasion of Garlemald and would have slowed the momentum of the story if we had to invade full scale. To take this thought further, I see this avenue of the story as the most interesting because it's a Japanese company showing us a fantasy retelling of Americans coming to Japan after the drop of the atomic bomb. The allegory can't be lost here because of it's ability to show humanity on both sides of the conflict.

Their most important story will be what comes after this. We clearly have a patch story coming where we'll visit Jullus and the twins. And maybe Gaius will be involved. At this point I'd be disappointed if we didn't reconstruct Garlemald.

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It did show that unique situation and made us be symphathetic with Garleans but at the cost of total destruction of Empire's culture and technology and a lot of the people has been waiting to finally travel there to actually see their culture and technology. Instead we got YET ANOTHER desolated zone with refugees that we need to save and then, apparently, help to rebuild. Quite a cheap way if you ask me.

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Originally Posted by Antoine_Lenheim

It did show that unique situation and made us be symphathetic with Garleans but at the cost of total destruction of Empire's culture and technology and a lot of the people has been waiting to finally travel there to actually see their culture and technology. Instead we got YET ANOTHER desolated zone with refugees that we need to save and then, apparently, help to rebuild. Quite a cheap way if you ask me.

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Corvos is still an option for that. It's been name dropped too many times for it to not be an explorable zone of some kind in the future.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Corvos is still an option for that. It's been name dropped too many times for it to not be an explorable zone of some kind in the future.

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I sort of forgot about what it is and had to google lol. But sounds promising I guess.

The point about not seeing Garlemald with its citizens living in comfort and advanced technology, sheltered from the suffering of those that aren't them, in their towering modern urban city pre-destruction, makes me realize that it helps Elpis to stand out.

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Originally Posted by Antoine_Lenheim

It did show that unique situation and made us be symphathetic with Garleans but at the cost of total destruction of Empire's culture and technology and a lot of the people has been waiting to finally travel there to actually see their culture and technology. Instead we got YET ANOTHER desolated zone with refugees that we need to save and then, apparently, help to rebuild. Quite a cheap way if you ask me.

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I'm sorry if this comment sounds aggressive, but claiming the way the story expressed this zone as cheap and as another zone with refugees seems show a lack of empathy. This empire's people have suffered through this long war too and karma destroyed their civilization. Sitting on the other side of Endwalker, I think about these choices to show Garlemald this way and it feels inevitable.

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Originally Posted by Kesey

I'm sorry if this comment sounds aggressive, but claiming the way the story expressed this zone as cheap and as another zone with refugees seems show a lack of empathy. This empire's people have suffered through this long war too and karma destroyed their civilization. Sitting on the other side of Endwalker, I think about these choices to show Garlemald this way and it feels inevitable.

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So you're basically okay with Empire's representation of being Ala Mhigo/Doma v2.0?

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Originally Posted by Antoine_Lenheim

So you're basically okay with Empire's representation of being Ala Mhigo/Doma v2.0?

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Personally, yes, because the interesting part of Garlemald is that it only appears to be 'Ala Mhigo/Doma 2.0' at first. What makes Garlemald shine is that you get there to find out that no, guns-blazing heroism and intervention is genuinely not welcome; it's not like Stormblood where you get through by just continuing to meddle, Garlemald genuinely does not want the help, and people would rather die than receive it.

Garlemald is the closest the game's ever come to genuine hostile territory as a zone, because not only are there the usual things/people that'll readily try to kill us, but even the people we're supposed to be helping don't want us around.

(Also, Bozja is the real 'Ala Mhigo/Doma 2.0', and it was fantastic.)

Isn't it just part of the nation though? Wouldn't there still be cities (at least towns) still erect or am I misunderstanding it? As I see it, it's an opportunity to "rebuild" Garlemald like the Doman reconstruction. I'm also disappointed we didn't get to have the full garlemald experience and was really looking forward to it since ARR (well, stormblood since that's when I started playing) but I really wanted to see the city. We might have the luxury of seeing it one day but I feel like Garlemald is just going to be a wasteland and wasted potential because the devs seem to want to move away from Garleans and Ascians entirely.

Yeah, I think that's important to remember; this was just a part, and there's more. With the twins going to Garlemald, I have no doubt that it'll get some focus. The twins, Alphinaud especially, are pretty much the WoL's best friends since ARR. Even if they take a step back from the spotlight in the coming story, the most that'll happen is they get a downgrade from MSQ to Really Important Side Story characters.

I doubt Garlemald will ever be properly rebuilt any time within the game's lifespan, so if we do get some kind of restoration project I'm expecting it'll be creating a home for the estranged Garleans elsewhere.

I also can't help but feel slightly concerned about the fact that the Tower of Babil is still radiating that ominous red haze even in the wake of Anima's destruction.

I've been watching streamers play through the Garlemald section (well, I've been watching their edited highlights clips, at least), and the more I see that NPC accuse our character of killing her comrades in the Praetorium, the less sense it makes.

For one thing, we learn from Nero back in 3.x that every member of the XIVth present when Gaius was doing his Ultima Weapon plan (ie since the start of ARR) was now considered traitors and deserters, since Gaius went rogue. As far as we know, that edict was never rescinded, since Varis would have to be the one to do so, and I don't know if he ever got a chance. In the Reaper questline, we also learn that the remnants of the XIVth are still there, and apparently selling ceruleum on the black market to support themselves.

So this NPC, who claims to have been present in the Praetorium and witness to us charging through it, is now a member of the (presumably prestigious) First Legion, and somehow still blaming us for her her comrades' deaths, instead of being more concerned that she should technically have been executed as a traitor, as the XIVth did to the VIIth remnants after Carteneau.

And quite frankly, I find it highly dubious that we killed that many of her comrades, given how Praetorium runs are entirely rushing past as many of the enemy spawns as we can, and only fighting the ones with keycards. Even in the Magitek Armour sequence, our primary foes are automated robots.

Gaius ordering his airships to blast holes into the Praetorium, and later the Ultima cast, was far more likely to be the cause of the deaths than anything we did. I don't blame Gaius for Ultima, but I do blame him for the sections where he blew open holes in the building.

Personally, I would say a much more fitting accusation was if the NPC said Rhitatyn was her friend (or inspiration or some such positive relationship), or that her friends were part of Rhitatyn's guard delegation. Cape Westwind was a targeted assassination, and one we should be guilty of. It was necessary, but still an assassination.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

Current Status of Garlean Imperial Legions:

Ist: refugees in Garlemald, formerly led by the late Quintus van Cinna. Now under the de facto leadership of Jullus pyr Norbanus.
IInd: Unknown.
IIIrd: led by Vergilia van Corculum. Cured of tempering to Anima; status otherwise unknown.
IVth: went rogue and attempted but failed to establish dominion over Bozja / Dalmasca under the orders of their legatus, Noah van Gabranth. Status otherwise unknown.
Vth: Unknown.
VIth: dispatched to Azys Lla to unearth Allagan eikon binding technology, but deemed Allagan methods unworthy; Legatus Regula van Hydrus killed in action. Status otherwise unknown.
VIIth: formerly led by Nael van Darnus, who saw the Meteor Project to fruition in 1.X; routed by the Seventh Umbral Calamity, Legatus van Darnus killed in action. Reformed under the leadership of Valens van Varro and stationed in Werlyt, but Legatus van Varro was defeated and killed by defector Gaius Baelsar. Status otherwise unknown.
VIIIth: Unknown.
IXth: Unknown.
Xth: Surrendered to the Grand Company of Eorzea. Leading Legatus and status otherwise unknown.
XIth: Unknown.
XIIth: formerly led by Zenos yae Galvus, stationed in Gyr Abania and Yanxia. Uprisings against Imperial rule saw the legion ousted from its provinces; survivors taken as PoWs. Former legatus yae Galvus complicit in starting the civil war that all but destroyed the Empire, stripped of his title and given the disgraceful "viator" instead.
XIIIth: Unknown.
XIVth: formerly led by Legatus Gaius van Baelsar; went rogue on the legatus' orders attempting to conquer Eorzea, but failed. All but destroyed in Operation Archon, survivors are holed up in various Imperial Castra across Eorzea. Former legatus van Baelsar survived but deserted, and now leads reconstruction efforts in Werlyt.

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According to the post-Bozja field notes for Gabranth, 1/3 of the IVth was killed in battle and the remaining 2/3 are PoWs.

I can't remember if it was said that the Xth legion was from Corvos, but there'd be a legion there to begin with, and others in whatever other occupied territory they have. I also thought I remember something about Garleans in the Far West mining ceruleum so it would stand to reason a legion went there too to fight the natives.

Speaking of Corvos, it's kind of weird that it's considered the "Garlean homeland" when we know that there were miqo'te living there 5200 years before the Garleans were kicked out. I wonder if the Ascians edited their textbooks.

Would be nice to know what happened to Nerva and Varis's bodyguards Annia and Julia, especially to those two after what happened in 5.0

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

Speaking of Corvos, it's kind of weird that it's considered the "Garlean homeland" when we know that there were miqo'te living there 5200 years before the Garleans were kicked out. I wonder if the Ascians edited their textbooks.

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Miqo'te live everywhere. The Garleans were probably centered around a specific region of Corvos, and didn't often venture far, which makes sense considering the discrimination against them. This was also probably before the Garleans got interested in Allagan technology. Raha's ancestors would have just been another tribe with their own customs. The Garleans only got interested in Allagan technology after they got magitek.

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Originally Posted by LystAP

Miqo'te live everywhere. The Garleans were probably centered around a specific region of Corvos, and didn't often venture far, which makes sense considering the discrimination against them. This was also probably before the Garleans got interested in Allagan technology. Raha's ancestors would have just been another tribe with their own customs. The Garleans only got interested in Allagan technology after they got magitek.

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The old Garleans were made up of multiple different tribes. The only confirmed location where one of them lived was the tribe that created the city of Goug which is south of Dalmasca in the Valnard Sea and leads ships to Valnain, which is a distance from Corvos and would mean that the idea of a central homeland is a little tricky if they were already spread out. It's possible though that they became refugees in Corvos, as Goug was thousands of years ago and would have been before the Garlean emigration 800 years ago.

As far as the miqo'te of Corvos go, we know for a fact that that same group has been there for 6000 years because that's where Princess Salina gave the miqo'te Desch the Allagan eye and his people stayed until House Darnus came and they were scared of being discovered.

Speaking of House Darnus, I don't believe that the Garlean interest in Allag began with magitek since Nael was described in the EE as having been the "heir to the secrets of her family - secrets of the fallen Allagan Empire". I thought I remember Nael herself mentioning that her family goes all the way back to Allag, and it was definitely them who donated the artifact that led to the Meteor Project, but I can't remember when that was mentioned. The Garleans were always messing around with technology. They had guns in Garlemald before they were an empire and before magitek, and thousands of years ago created the city of Goug, filled with robots and contraptions.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

The old Garleans were made up of multiple different tribes. The only confirmed location where one of them lived was the tribe that created the city of Goug which is south of Dalmasca in the Valnard Sea and leads ships to Valnain, which is a distance from Corvos and would mean that the idea of a central homeland is a little tricky if they were already spread out. It's possible though that they became refugees in Corvos, as Goug was thousands of years ago and would have been before the Garlean emigration 800 years ago.

As far as the miqo'te of Corvos go, we know for a fact that that same group has been there for 6000 years because that's where Princess Salina gave the miqo'te Desch the Allagan eye and his people stayed until House Darnus came and they were scared of being discovered.

Speaking of House Darnus, I don't believe that the Garlean interest in Allag began with magitek since Nael was described in the EE as having been the "heir to the secrets of her family - secrets of the fallen Allagan Empire". I thought I remember Nael herself mentioning that her family goes all the way back to Allag, and it was definitely them who donated the artifact that led to the Meteor Project, but I can't remember when that was mentioned. The Garleans were always messing around with technology. They had guns in Garlemald before they were an empire and before magitek, and thousands of years ago created the city of Goug, filled with robots and contraptions.

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They might have shown some interest in it, but until Solus came around, I recall a fair bit of Allagan technology required aether to use, so it wasn't practical. Nael's family might have had a connection with Allag, but they weren't warmongering imperialists in the past - so perhaps the miqo'te felt safer back then. The miqo'te also could have migrated there. The lore behind the Garlean tribes is weird. The Garlean Republic gear from PvP and mirrored in the new crafted 90 gear, seem adapt more for a climate like Corvos rather than the frozen wastes of Garlemald. There might have been one dominant Garlean city-state surrounded by various tribes.

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Originally Posted by LystAP

They might have shown some interest in it, but until Solus came around, I recall a fair bit of Allagan technology required aether to use, so it wasn't practical. Nael's family might have had a connection with Allag, but they weren't warmongering imperialists in the past - so perhaps the miqo'te felt safer back then. The miqo'te also could have migrated there. The lore behind the Garlean tribes is weird. The Garlean Republic gear from PvP and mirrored in the new crafted 90 gear, seem adapt more for a climate like Corvos rather than the frozen wastes of Garlemald. There might have been one dominant Garlean city-state surrounded by various tribes.

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I never said the Garleans didn't live there at one time, but I wouldn't say it's their original homeland either and the Gougans existing elsewhere well before is proof of that. The EE says that G'raha's ancestors were from the "outskirts of Ilsabard" at the time of the Allagan Empire and Corvos happens to be on the edge of Ilsabard.

It's just a bit weird for a whole country to go on a revenge quest and say "hey, these people kicked us out", if there's a history of others being there before, which would imply at least some peaceful coexistence unless the Garleans were the belligerents in the first place. The EE says that they went north after "suffering defeat in their territorial claims", which paints a different picture than "this was our homeland and we were just poor farmers until these magic-wielding savages kicked us out". I'm hoping that we will get some non-Garlean and objective source material from a future patch content or side-quests or something that will shed a little extra light on it since it seems to me that the Garleans' version of events differs from other things we know. Goug were a tribe of the same people and they were not peaceful farmers. Did their refugees and other proto-Garleans move to the area and then decided to call it their homeland? There's some missing piece of information out there I think.

The other part of this, is do the Garleans actually have the right to take over land that hasn't been theirs for 800 years? Assuming that the homeland story is true, the whole impetus for the Garlean invasions was still set up by an Ascian who weaponized their resentment towards the rest of the world and specifically their grudges towards this one region over events from 800 years ago. That's 32-40 generations ago depending on how long you count a generation.

Another weird thing is that the armor sets are called "Republican", but the Garlean Republic was only set up in the year 922, after they had already been in the north for a couple hundred years.

But I also wonder how much of this is "there's untruths in the stories" and how much is "we have a bunch of writers that don't talk to each other or reference the same material and just make stuff up without referencing Oda first".

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

Personally, yes, because the interesting part of Garlemald is that it only appears to be 'Ala Mhigo/Doma 2.0' at first. What makes Garlemald shine is that you get there to find out that no, guns-blazing heroism and intervention is genuinely not welcome; it's not like Stormblood where you get through by just continuing to meddle, Garlemald genuinely does not want the help, and people would rather die than receive it.

Garlemald is the closest the game's ever come to genuine hostile territory as a zone, because not only are there the usual things/people that'll readily try to kill us, but even the people we're supposed to be helping don't want us around.

(Also, Bozja is the real 'Ala Mhigo/Doma 2.0', and it was fantastic.)

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I already explained my point on that few pages back, I think how they reacted to us appearing was incredibly odd, even given all the state propaganda and brainwashing. They blame us for current state of Garlemald, for killing their own on the battlefield, whilst doing the same to us on the span of four expansions.

But what's even more odder is how abruptly Garleans get over it all. They just all of a sudden accepted our help, right after showing us how unwelcomed we are on their land. So much bloodlust over the years has just been swept under the carpet. Yeah, it didn't seem like another Doma right off the bat but it definitely built up to be just another Doman Enclave/Firmament.

Actually word "abruptly" describes Garlemald plotline in a whole. We abruptly arrive, without much of a sense of time or travel, and we leave again in the same manner, with a lot of plot points that feel like a set up for something cool (such as the solo duty before the dungeon, Anima, etc.) suddenly becoming irrelevant again for the rest of the MSQ. Oh god, that Towers plotline sucks. After all the buildup with Fandaniel, Zenos and the towers I was expecting that story arc to last quite a while longer instead of getting resolved so effortlessly. Where the story went from there was way better than I imagined, but the whole "towers" plotline just made me go "wait, that's it?"

Garlemald definitely feels as the most rushed zone in EW and I do hope they will expand on it

P. S. About Bozja I will have to take your word on it because I only progressed up until Gangos in that storyline. Im not touching Eureka-like mechanics with a ten foot pole, Eureka is shit whatever coat of paint you put on it.