In-Game music - do you like it??

I'd say I started loving XIV's music in Heavensward. I love pretty much every song in that expansion. I really loved entering Ishgard for the first time and seeing the Heavenward title splash with the city's music swelling in the background. Painted Foothills (Dravanion Forelands theme) is one of my favourite area themes in the game.

For ARR, I'd say Coil's music is my favourite. I do like Gridania's theme. It feels like coming home.

It wouldn't surprise me if a lot of players do remember battle themes over area themes. Many areas you don't really have a reason to visit again after clearing the MSQ, especially if you don't engage in Gathering classes. Lots of players probably have heard the battle themes a lot over the years because of running roulettes for exp and tomes.

I do agree that the Yanxia theme is terrible though haha.

1st you can get around the character limit by editing your post.

2 I do love pre Shadowbringers Soken. Soken loves his motifs. So, let me ask you do you like Kugane? Cause guess what it shares the same motif as Yanxia. Do you like or enjoy any of the other Othard sections? Cause again Measure of His Reach is in every single part of Stormblood. Just like Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Shadowbringers are part of most zones. Except Eulmore during the day? And in Ratika. We also love him because he is a silly man who loves knee high socks and will meme the crap out of his own songs. Maybe it's due to you still going through the story, but half the reason why we love the trial music is because they've been seared into our brains while farming mounts. Then there's Hein/Doma's theme being a homage to Cyan from Final Fantasy VI.

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Originally Posted by Moomba33

I'd say I started loving XIV's music in Heavensward. I love pretty much every song in that expansion. I really loved entering Ishgard for the first time and seeing the Heavenward title splash with the city's music swelling in the background. Painted Foothills (Dravanion Forelands theme) is one of my favourite area themes in the game.

For ARR, I'd say Coil's music is my favourite. I do like Gridania's theme. It feels like coming home.

It wouldn't surprise me if a lot of players do remember battle themes over area themes. Many areas you don't really have a reason to visit again after clearing the MSQ, especially if you don't engage in Gathering classes. Lots of players probably have heard the battle themes a lot over the years because of running roulettes for exp and tomes.

I do agree that the Yanxia theme is terrible though haha.

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The problem with Heavensward is that not all of it was Soken. There's still stuff Uematsu is credited for. And you don't enjoy the one zone Soken gave us an Otamatone meme of? Dang.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

The problem with Heavensward is that not all of it was Soken. There's still stuff Uematsu is credited for. And you don't enjoy the one zone Soken gave us an Otamatone meme of? Dang.

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I like Uematsu a lot too. :)

Nope! A meme cannot make sound less grating

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Originally Posted by BlueKojiro

So here's my question for all the super-fans: do you actually LIKE the music that you end up hearing for 99% of the game (overworld themes and that one cutscene they used for every planning/suspicious conversation scene)? Or did you just forget that they exist and are rating Soken purely based on the songs that you actually DO like?

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The first time I actually heard praise for FFXIV's music, before I even played the game, was actually for Fiend in Heavensward. And the first time I personally took active notice of the soundtrack when I started playing (outside of 'oh hey that's the FFII battle theme' which is admittedly cheating) was Oblivion, in A Realm Reborn.

I think there's an important distinction in games like this between the big songs that you're actually meant to sit up and take notice of, and the more constant background music that's just playing for mood-setting and the like. Those actually require different talents, you can't just do ALL big bangers or the player will get tired of it and start noticing the repetition. In the context of FFXIV I think people generally agree that Shadowbringers' 'field battle' theme is an example of that going bad, because the song starts far too strongly for how often it's going to play only briefly. If you're familiar with the Persona series, I'd say another screw-up on that is Mass Destruction in Persona 3; the regular encounters happen far too often for a song with an abrasive opening like that to not get annoying, so even if I love the song I couldn't bear listening to it by the end. Similarly, you can't approach the big tentpole boss themes and the like from the same sort of 'audio wallpaper' approach you'd use for background music, because then the music doesn't convey the importance or tempo of the event. For an example of that failing, I would name 'most Bioware games', because I can remember maybe one song that wasn't a credits theme; they were fine, but they lacked the impact when it counted.

Naturally when complimenting specific songs people are gonna name those hard-hitting tentpole themes just because they notice them more, and credit due to Soken, that's where his greatest strength lies; when it comes time to write a theme for a specific boss or often dungeon, it's rare that he doesn't land a bullseye. But you're right that that's not the entire job description; he also has to write those more subtle, downbeat background tracks. And I'm gonna be honest, at first he was only okay at it. The songs fit the requirements of when they played, but they were very rarely all too exceptional or interesting, they were just sort of there; them being forgettably 'there I guess' is better than them hitting too hard, but it's still a bit of a faltering. I'd say the first time he made a 'background music' track that I actively noticed and recognized as good was Order Yet Undeciphered, the Azys Lla theme.

It's this more subtle side of the soundtrack that I'd say Soken improved at over time, and while I'd say there's a few strong pieces there around Stormblood, I notice a marked improvement there in Shadowbringers, where a lot of those themes for field zones, non-exceptional cutscenes actually become exceptional in their own rights rather than just 'also there on the soundtrack'.

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Originally Posted by BlueKojiro

Subjective Experience with Music in FFXIV

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For the most part, FFXIV's zone music for its overworld is like the rest of its overworld experience, rather weak and almost not there.

Its greatest strengths lie mostly in the fight music for trials and at one time dungeons(though dungeons have since become largely nothingburgers when the community complained that they wanted to hear the final boss music or a variation of it for all bosses instead of selected old boss music for the first couple of bosses from prior expansions).

Nobuo Uematsu actually did the lionshare of the game's early music, with Soken doing about 1/3rd of it up into HW or something like that. They also got other SE composers to do the odd song here or there, like how Naoshi Mizuta did the Maelstrom Command theme.

Once you've finished the storylines, you will find that you rarely spend time in the overworld, and you will come to understand the minor neglect it receives.

I will say though, for as weak at the overworld zone music is, I enjoy most of all of it buy and large. Particularly the themes in:

Upper La Noscea (Note, in ARR zones unless something's changed, you have to wait quite a bit for the music to start and most of the tracks are 2 minute pieces that stop and let silence reign more often than not)
Churning Mists
Dravnanian Hinterlands (Day time)
Ruby Sea
The Lochs
Ahm Araeng
Il Mheg
Kholusia (Daytime) (Post Story change)
Mare Lamentorum
Ultima Thule (Pre-Vocalization change)

All in all, it's easy to recognize Soken's weakness with zone music, but he has improved at it. His battle bangers more than make up for it, as well as the fact that he composed one of the best ones while he was sick in the hospital with cancer.

Note that your favorite composer has never composed overworld music for an MMO. You have to take into account what type of music a composer is being directed to compose. It's a lot easier to compose tracks for standalone games that have a few uses or plays over the course of a game, rather than a song that has to loop ad infinitum.

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

Note that your favorite composer has never composed overworld music for an MMO. You have to take into account what type of music a composer is being directed to compose. It's a lot easier to compose tracks for standalone games that have a few uses or plays over the course of a game, rather than a song that has to loop ad infinitum.

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So I haven't taken issue with anything I've heard from you guys thus far except this sentence.

First of all, there is no qualitative difference between MMO overworld music and non-MMO overworld music. All overworld music loops, so I don't know what you're getting at there.
Second, IS it actually easier to compose cutscene music than it is to compose looping area themes? How would you possibly know? The cutscene music in FFVII Remake, many of which are done by Hamauzu, make extensive use of leitmotif arranged in different keys and instrumentation to produce extremely specific moods, so it strikes me as odd to hear you essentially say "okay bud, that's impressive, but try making a loop next time!" which is all the more absurd considering Hamauzu also wrote several looping songs on that same game as well as plenty of looping songs throughout the XIII trilogy, and you know for a fact that his and Suzuki's music are like one of the only things people like about those games.

Anyways, I hear what ya'll are saying, but I don't think I'll ever come to the same opinion about Soken because of the hours of his worst work I've had to suffer through already. I've never had a moment like that with Yasunori Mitsuda, Nobuo Uematsu, Masashi Hamauzu, Hitoshi Sakimoto, or any of the other greats, so for me, no matter how great some of his tracks might be, his entire track record has way too many black marks for me to put him anywhere near those others. I never had to go through a "rough patch" with any of those other composers, so I feel like that just automatically puts them on a level above Soken for the rest of time.

I guess that is what my contention is though. Can someone be considered god-tier if an unusual amount of their recently published work is genuinely terrible? I guess some people seem to think the answer is yes, but it's a hard no for me.

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Originally Posted by BlueKojiro

I guess that is what my contention is though. Can someone be considered god-tier if an unusual amount of their recently published work is genuinely terrible? I guess some people seem to think the answer is yes, but it's a hard no for me.

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I would question what you think is 'genuinely terrible' on FFXIV's soundtrack, because I can't think of one. The worst I can think of are songs that wind up kind of forgettable and uninteresting. I can assure you, if a song on this soundtrack was ACTUALLY terrible, I would've really grown to hate it over my hours of fishing, gathering, crafting and the like.

I'll tell you right now though that you're not really gaining any ground in this argument by just saying 'Soken Bad' and throwing around other names. Like, bring up actual arguments about why the soundtrack is bad; you're going against the consensus here, so you need to find something convincing.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

I would question what you think is 'genuinely terrible' on FFXIV's soundtrack, because I can't think of one. The worst I can think of are songs that wind up kind of forgettable and uninteresting. I can assure you, if a song on this soundtrack was ACTUALLY terrible, I would've really grown to hate it over my hours of fishing, gathering, crafting and the like.

I'll tell you right now though that you're not really gaining any ground in this argument by just saying 'Soken Bad' and throwing around other names. Like, bring up actual arguments about why the soundtrack is bad; you're going against the consensus here, so you need to find something convincing.

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Probably my least favorite Stormblood track has to be From Mud. Though that's from a dungeon and a remix of Poison Ivy. Which wouldn't count in Bluekojiro's eyes since I said it's from a dungeon. It did grow on me while I farmed it or I tuned it out during my farm for the furniture item from the last chest. This "conversation" feels like the argument about how the game's music is all just trash cause it's not composed the same way as classical music or whatever that thread's OP kept on insisting on.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

Probably my least favorite Stormblood track has to be From Mud. Though that's from a dungeon and a remix of Poison Ivy. Which wouldn't count in Bluekojiro's eyes since I said it's from a dungeon. It did grow on me while I farmed it or I tuned it out during my farm for the furniture item from the last chest. This "conversation" feels like the argument about how the game's music is all just trash cause it's not composed the same way as classical music or whatever that thread's OP kept on insisting on.

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From Mud leans into its distortion effect, which makes it a weird pick for a dungeon theme since that can kinda blend uncomfortably with clearer sounds playing over it, it can make it hard to 'figure out'; I actually really like the song, but it's an awkward fit for a dungeon. I noticed the same thing when I tried to use Echoes in the Distance for one of my videos; that song's amazing for field music since it gets the chance to stand alone and be deciphered, but it was a flop when used as backing for speech and narration, it just came out as noise.

I think you're missing the point of this entire conversation. This isn't an argument because music is entirely down to personal taste. What could I possibly say to convince you that the Yanxia theme was written by Satan to torture mortals? If it doesn't bother you, then it doesn't bother you.

The only thing I came in here to figure out was if my tastes are really just *that* different from the FFXIV fanbase, if I just haven't gotten to the good stuff yet, or if people just tend to forget the map/cutscene music once they've been farming mounts for more hours than they spent on the MSQ originally. From what I can see, it seems that most of the soundtrack really is that forgettable because the only songs people talk about are boss themes and final cutscenes/credit rolls. I see some sparse mentions of map themes here and there, but overall my suspicions about the uptick in quality post Stormblood as well as the concentration of quality in boss themes seems to have been right.

The only place where my opinion seems to greatly differ with people is that not that many people seem to have individual songs that really annoyed them. For me, Safety in Numbers from Heavensward, Othard Camp and Yanxia Theme (Day) from Stormblood (had to look up the names because it was taking too long to describe them each time) are bad enough that I actively avoid going to those areas if I can (which I couldn't any time the MSQ took me there. At the very least I would never ever AFK there and would always leave before opening the menu to look at something or sort my inventory, etc). I've never played another videogame before where I purposefully avoided an in-game area because the music actively irritated me.

And just to throw you some more bones, I really liked the map themes from the sky islands from Heavensward (Cloud Sea I think?) and all the Coerthas music and the Heavensward credits theme was absolutely amazing. I also like the Kugane theme (the second half, not the first half), and I actually really love the dungeon boss theme in Stormblood. I don't really remember any of the trial themes off the top of my head except for Shiva's where I distinctly remember thinking "holy shit" when she uses diamond dust, the whole arena freezes over, and then this electric guitar kicks in. I sat up in my chair real quick at that point.

I'm not some prude who insists that music not composed the "same way as classical music is" is "not good music." You'd know that if you actually read my entire comment though, specifically where I said I thought the trials music was really good. That's my problem with this community in a nutshell, though. You guys get so f***ing defensive any time someone doesn't think the game is a 10/10 experience. Like just chill dude. Fastest way to convince someone not to play your favorite game is if you purposefully ignore what they're saying and argue against a strawman instead. Doesn't really matter though since I'm gonna keep playing anyways.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

From Mud leans into its distortion effect, which makes it a weird pick for a dungeon theme since that can kinda blend uncomfortably with clearer sounds playing over it, it can make it hard to 'figure out'; I actually really like the song, but it's an awkward fit for a dungeon. I noticed the same thing when I tried to use Echoes in the Distance for one of my videos; that song's amazing for field music since it gets the chance to stand alone and be deciphered, but it was a flop when used as backing for speech and narration, it just came out as noise.

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Yeah, it's the distortion that made me not like getting the dungeon in roulette when it first came out. I normally don't dislike a dungeon for its music, but that one made my brain have fits due to there being a distortion combined with the clearer sounds. I feel as though the distortion is at a slower speed. Or it felt like that at the time.

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Originally Posted by BlueKojiro

Snips

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I'm not sure what you were expecting? You necro a thread and right away go full on attack of the game's music and then ask if anyone likes the Pre Shadowbringers music. Then move the goal posts when people go yes we loved Soken Pre Shadowbringers. To disclude dungeon and trial music cause zone music is the only thing that matters. And when people again push you on it you again go bro no it sucks and field music should be bangers. All of your tastes are trash. I only brought up the other poster due to how you are coming off. That no matter what we say you react like a child sticking their fingers in their ears going "La la la. Can't hear you and your taste in music is still trash no matter what you say".

I don't like Soken's insistence on leitmotifs which is so forced, it borders on zealos ideological commitment to it come what may. There are several songs that are actively ruined by being dragged into known melodies, with Innocence's theme being a prime offender. The song starts out insanely promising only to immediately disappoint you with the same trite old notes you've heard a billion times before that never got any better than their already perfect incarnation in the ShB cinematic/Hades fight.

On the flipside, the Werlyt theme is absolutely amazing. It's creative in it's use of the Garlean theme to the point where you might not even notice it and when you do the song gets all the better for it.

I also have a problem with not knowing who did which song. There is a lot of work in this game that I love that Soken probably doesn't deserve the lion's share of credit for.

You're just continually proving my point. At no point did I attack any actual *person* who likes any particular kind of music. I've repeatedly made clear that everyone's taste is their own, and maybe you weren't aware of this, but I have every right to call any song garbage whenever I want. If you think that's a reflection of what I think of YOU if you happen to like that song, then you have a serious identity crisis that you need to talk to a therapist about. It's a song, dude. It's not YOU I'm attacking. I'm saying that when I hear that song it makes me feel strong negative emotions. What does that have to do with you? Did you write the song? No? Then stop getting butthurt on behalf of an inanimate object. Not once did I say "your taste in music is still trash" but you have now outright said that to me, so we are 0-1 on calling peoples' opinions trash.

And what do you mean move the goal posts? My very first comment brought up 3 scenarios that I was investigating: either everyone actually loves the songs that I think are trash, everyone has forgotten about the earlier songs, or the later songs are just so good that they invalidate the prior ones. In my head those were the only three options. Now that I've seen peoples' opinions on the topic, as I've already stated in a prior comment, my perspective has changed to the following, and I quote:

"From what I can see, it seems that most of the soundtrack really is that forgettable because the only songs people talk about are boss themes and final cutscenes/credit rolls. I see some sparse mentions of map themes here and there, but overall my suspicions about the uptick in quality post Stormblood as well as the concentration of quality in boss themes seems to have been right. The only place where my opinion seems to greatly differ with people is that not that many people seem to have individual songs that really annoyed them." Somehow you've performed the mental gymnastics of turning that into "moving the goalposts."

Finally, I never said zone music is the only thing that matters. I said they matter MORE than the dungeon and trial music because most of my time has been spent in zones and cutscenes. How could that possibly not be the case? If I have to spend 3 hours listening to ear torture but I get to spend 15 minutes being in heaven, do you really think I'm going to say that on average it was a wonderful experience? Obviously I'm going to specify that it was a mixed bag with some highs and lows.

But go ahead, ignore everything I'm saying and take the worst possible misinterpretation of my comments and run with it. I'll be waiting.

'' So guys, do you ACTUALLY like this horrid putrid garbage trash fire shit? If you do, guess we'll have to disagree then. ''

That's the content of your post, and I'm not exactly sure what you were expecting to happen or how the discussion would go from there.

But yes, I love a lot of the songs from ARR to Endwalker. And the songs I don't love range from inoffensive (and forgettable) to good. Only a few songs are truly heinous, and most of them are just way too overused and that's what makes them annoying.

I never once implied that you were attacking a single person so no I didn't think you were attacking me personally. Please re-read my post. I said you attacked everyone who likes Soken and his work pre Shadowbringers. You moved the goal posts cause when people brought up trial and raids you practically said oh those don't count cause those aren't zone locations. You have repeatedly called music multiple people enjoy as trash and stating disbelief that they could enjoy such songs. That somehow just because a song isn't a banger or an earworm that implies it must be well trash in your opinion.

Just because I don't have Liquid Flame, The Stone Remembers or even Unbreakable (Duality) on the brain every day doesn't mean they have to equate to being forgettable. You have multiple times been "Oh but why do you guys not remember Cradle or A Father's Pride? They must be forgettable and thus trash cause they're not bangers or fight music".Then you are given an example or two of songs that annoy them and yet you dismiss them. It's also been at least four years if not more since many of us have done Stormblood. Want an area song that everyone probably can hear the opening notes to that probably splits people's opinions? Seven Hundred Seventy-Seven Whiskers. I love Japanese festival music it's normally does its job and gets you in the mood. Yet that song makes me want to drown every Namazu with all the tea. Probably just due to me not liking the Namazu. Yet I still wouldn't call it trash.

lol and exactly on schedule you just read whatever fantasy was in your head instead of what I actually wrote. I'm done at this point. Literally addressed everything you said in my previous comment.

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Originally Posted by BlueKojiro

Hamauzu dick riding

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MMO overworld music has different direction depending on the game and zone. The overworld in an MMO has many different overworld themes that all have different criteria compared to a standalone title.

Is it easier to compose one or two overworld themes or half a dozen? How about a dozen in the same crunched time period? Use your brain.

Hamauzu's best work is FFXIII's soundtrack, basically the best thing about that game. And in it and its associated games, he had a full game's worth of development time to compose those tracks, less tracks than Soken does per XIV expansion in a shorter amount of time.

Anyway, your taste needs refinement.

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Originally Posted by BlueKojiro

What I would really love to know from all the Soken fans is this: were you a mega-fan *before* Shadowbringers, or only *after* Shadowbringers?

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Since 2.0.

I also enjoy the Yanxia map. Are some overused? Sure. But there's no reason to make a new track for every single cutscene that has a specific direction and one already made would work. I haven't really heard a track I've gotten sick of, either. There are plenty I like less than others - I'm not the biggest fan of Oblivion but I enjoy Footsteps In the Snow a lot, and the acoustic version of Oblivion is really great! But in-game? Nah, it's pretty mid. Not the worst ever, but not the best either to me. Ultima will never not get my hyped to fight an endboss. Heroes is absolutely nuts and I love listening to it, the Dravanian Hinterlands theme is one of my absolute fave overworld themes.

This is just matters of taste, not anything else.

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Originally Posted by rainichan

I'm not the biggest fan of Oblivion but I enjoy Footsteps In the Snow a lot, and the acoustic version of Oblivion is really great!

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Hey same here!
It's nice to see another Footsteps in the Snow enjoyer, it tends to get overshadowed by Oblivion.

I'd just like to point out that, even though Soken is amazing and To The Edge is one of the best songs I've ever heard and the orchestral version makes me tear up (not to mention the orchestral version of Flow, good gods...), he's not the sole composer in CBU3.

He's the music DIRECTOR, and as such he writes the Main "Theme" of the expansion (although the actual Main Themes, re: Answers, Dragonsong, and Revolutions, were written by Uematsu, Shadowbringers, aka, Tomorrow and Tomorrow, and Endwalker, aka, Footfalls, were written by Soken), while OTHERS work on individual songs building from the main theme. So claiming Soken is the sole composer unintentionally diminishes the work of the OTHER creatives in the team, namely Daiki Ishikawa and Takafumi Imamura. And 3rd party musicians like Yoshitaka Suziki and KEIKO (what, did you think she only showed up in FanFests because she plays the piano?) who've also done work in the soundtracks. Granted, this is because the streaming services only list Soken as the composer and I don't know why they do so, but of course he can't physically shoulder the entire soundtrack alone.

More on topic: I rather like a lot of songs from the ARR to StB era, particularly the trial songs for Ramuh, Garuda, and Shiva, as well as Ravana's Phase 1 and Bismark's Phase 2, and Thordan's, and the Azim Steppe's Day Theme. And I wouldn't say that one rarely hears the trials songs and "only" hears the overworld music since... uh... I raid? I spend more time either in my house (with Orchestrions so I can listen to the OTHER songs of the Soundtrack), the housing areas, or... in trials...

I also happen to like the Yanxia theme, so...

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Originally Posted by Moomba33

Hey same here!
It's nice to see another Footsteps in the Snow enjoyer, it tends to get overshadowed by Oblivion.

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Footsteps in the Snow is very underrated by the fanbase, yes yes.

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Originally Posted by BlueKojiro

So here's my question for all the super-fans: do you actually LIKE the music that you end up hearing for 99% of the game (overworld themes and that one cutscene they used for every planning/suspicious conversation scene)? Or did you just forget that they exist and are rating Soken purely based on the songs that you actually DO like?

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The city and overworld night themes are actually some of my favorites. One of the reasons I like living in Empyreum is so that I get Night in the Brume at night. It's beautiful with the snow falling. I also love listening to the night themes (e.g. Gridania) when it's raining in game (and you can hear it mixed with the rain sounds, sometimes falling on the roof if you are in a building.) I spent so much time crafting in Ul'dah and the Crystarium and still love the night music in both places (though getting woken up by the blaring Ul'dah day music is still terrifying.) Some people are apparently tired of Close in the Distance but I just finished the shared fates and have no problem listening to it again. Also finished the tribe quests with the remix which I also like. I currently have a bunch of EW music on our orchestrion now that I finished the shared fates. It's serene.

My only complaint with some of the overworld themes (such as the beautiful Contention and Stars Long Dead) is that their loops are too short! I think Dragonsong/Contention is an Uematsu piece.

I like the dungeon music but I don't listen to it much outside of dungeons, with the exception of a few favorites like Tricksome (WPHM) and The Warrens (Snowcloak - on my holiday playlist.) And of course the brilliant (and memed) A Long Fall (based on Alex themes.) Some music just perfectly puts you into the groove for the duty. I usually make orchestrion playlists for every seasonal event, as well as on various themes or however the mood strikes me, and dungeon themes sometimes show up on those lists as well.

One thing we might share in common though is an affinity for trial and/or raid themes; personally I really like the Alex raid themes, though I may be biased somewhat having seen some of them performed by the Primals. I also liked the Nier raid music as well as the current 24p raid music.

So, it may very well be a matter of differing taste in your case, or for OP an apparent distaste for sampled or synthesized arrangements vs. acoustic. In any case, if you look on youtube you can see that FFXIV's music resonates with many people (though it's self-selecting since the people it doesn't resonate with probably don't make as many youtube videos about it.)

[edit: How did I miss the Raincatcher Gully music? It's beautiful.]

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Originally Posted by rainichan

There are plenty I like less than others - I'm not the biggest fan of Oblivion but I enjoy Footsteps In the Snow a lot, and the acoustic version of Oblivion is really great! But in-game? Nah, it's pretty mid.

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I think Oblivion works for two reasons.

A: The actual spectacle. Like, this is the first time the soundtrack really breaks from expectations and stops being what Final Fantasy sountracks have already been before. Even the genre breaks before that point had some roots in classic themes; Good King Moggle Mog is based on FFV's moogle theme, Under the Weight (which I think is generally underrated probably because people don't expect it to have meaning) is kinda Soken's attempt at Otherworld from FFX. But Oblivion breaking into female-vocals rock doesn't actually have an equivalent, everything with female vocals before that in Final Fantasy was either more of a ballad (Answers) or a lot more pop (like Real Emotion).

B: It's the first time we really start noticing the music helping to tell the story, honestly to a degree that even most earlier FF games never did. Again, Under the Weight probably got overlooked for how well it works at that, but Oblivion's the first song where it actually tells us things about the character it's for. Not only do the lyrics do a hell of a lot to tell the story of Ysayle, who at that point in the game was mostly an unknown, the fact the song busts into a rock version of the song that was playing before kinda helps to outline her emotional storytelling; that Ysayle puts up this elegant and composed air even when she's fighting, but when she lets loose, it turns out she's PISSED.

If I were actually ranking songs from the soundtrack, yeah, Oblivion probably wouldn't wind up super high, and I also prefer the piano version if I'm going strictly by what my ears like to hear. But I think Oblivion is a landmark part of the game's soundtrack because that's the point where the game starts actively using its musical choices to help tell the story, rather than just it being supplemental 'stuff that sets the tone and sounds good'. And I think perhaps you could argue that only Oblivion could've opened that door so well; the song so very clearly has something to say that requires you to sit and listen to it, but also isn't too impenetrable when you do. Contrast that with what would come in 3.0--Unbending Steel is almost too easy to read, while Locus was incomprehensible to the point of potentially coming off as gibberish if we weren't actually trying to interpret it.

Mostly I love it, most of Endwalker I'm still listening to on repeat from 6.0 - There's also some cool old boss themes that I leave running in my house.

I hope we get the Heroes Forged Ahead orchestrion roll soon.

In dungeon and raid, it's the in-game music. However, the non-Dungeon combat theme in non-instance areas sucks.

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Originally Posted by Naoki34

Mostly I love it, most of Endwalker I'm still listening to on repeat from 6.0 - There's also some cool old boss themes that I leave running in my house.

I hope we get the Heroes Forged Ahead orchestrion roll soon.

In dungeon and raid, it's the in-game music. However, the non-Dungeon combat theme in non-instance areas sucks.

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Are you talking about the EW combat theme or all of the expansions? I think they're pretty good, though I wouldn't mind having more overworld battle themes though. And longer loops.

But... it's hilarious hearing any of the ARR battle theme variants (The Land Burns/Breaks/Breathes/Bleeds/etc.) come on IRL (especially at a convention or fanfest) and you're like "oh no, what did I aggro?!"

I appreciate how the same ARR battle theme varies somewhat across areas. The Mor Dhona variant (bleeds) is particularly good.

The HW battle theme (Melt) is pretty cool as well.

Go listen to theme of the main boss in the 2nd 24 man alliance raid for Endwalker, I forget the name of the 24 man raid, lol I just got out of it to.

Very awesome music, plus I enjoy Ravana's theme, Brute Justice theme, Shinryu theme, Kugane theme & many others.

This game does everything from orchestra music to dance clubbin music and it does it greatly.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

Under the Weight (which I think is generally underrated probably because people don't expect it to have meaning) is kinda Soken's attempt at Otherworld from FFX. But Oblivion breaking into female-vocals rock doesn't actually have an equivalent, everything with female vocals before that in Final Fantasy was either more of a ballad (Answers) or a lot more pop (like Real Emotion).

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I now feel obligated to point out the Black Mages cover of "Otherworld" with vocals by KAZKO as a possible musical precedent, though not in-game.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

I think Oblivion works for two reasons.

A: The actual spectacle. Like, this is the first time the soundtrack really breaks from expectations and stops being what Final Fantasy sountracks have already been before. Even the genre breaks before that point had some roots in classic themes; Good King Moggle Mog is based on FFV's moogle theme, Under the Weight (which I think is generally underrated probably because people don't expect it to have meaning) is kinda Soken's attempt at Otherworld from FFX. But Oblivion breaking into female-vocals rock doesn't actually have an equivalent, everything with female vocals before that in Final Fantasy was either more of a ballad (Answers) or a lot more pop (like Real Emotion).

B: It's the first time we really start noticing the music helping to tell the story, honestly to a degree that even most earlier FF games never did. Again, Under the Weight probably got overlooked for how well it works at that, but Oblivion's the first song where it actually tells us things about the character it's for. Not only do the lyrics do a hell of a lot to tell the story of Ysayle, who at that point in the game was mostly an unknown, the fact the song busts into a rock version of the song that was playing before kinda helps to outline her emotional storytelling; that Ysayle puts up this elegant and composed air even when she's fighting, but when she lets loose, it turns out she's PISSED.

If I were actually ranking songs from the soundtrack, yeah, Oblivion probably wouldn't wind up super high, and I also prefer the piano version if I'm going strictly by what my ears like to hear. But I think Oblivion is a landmark part of the game's soundtrack because that's the point where the game starts actively using its musical choices to help tell the story, rather than just it being supplemental 'stuff that sets the tone and sounds good'. And I think perhaps you could argue that only Oblivion could've opened that door so well; the song so very clearly has something to say that requires you to sit and listen to it, but also isn't too impenetrable when you do. Contrast that with what would come in 3.0--Unbending Steel is almost too easy to read, while Locus was incomprehensible to the point of potentially coming off as gibberish if we weren't actually trying to interpret it.

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I really love Oblivion, since it's essentially punk rock, which is anti-establishment music, and paints Ysayle and her turning into Shiva in a different light. First phase we thought she was engulfed by Shiva, and then when Oblivion kicks in and you hear the lyrics, you realize that she has done the one thing that hasn't happened before in the story. Ysayle is in control of Shiva, breaking our established beliefs that fully summoned Primals cannot be controlled (outside of Ultima Weapon).

I still remember doing Titan HM for the first time, and my roommates stopping and listening to Under the Weight. My roommate's wife coming out of the bedroom like, "Is that music from the game? It is? Whoa..."

I don't think I understood what was being sang in it for a couple of years though, mainly because I misheard the lyrics for a long time/assumed some of them were just frenzied yelling.

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

I don't think I understood what was being sang in it for a couple of years though, mainly because I misheard the lyrics for a long time/assumed some of them were just frenzied yelling.

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I have a firm belief that if Under the Weight were released in Shadowbringers, we'd have understood it far better and it would be hailed as one of the greats. It was, quite literally, before its time.

At launch we weren't prepared for lyrics to be telling us things or to really matter (and some of us might've not even recognized there even were any). So we didn't really think to actually dissect the high-speed rap for any sort of meaning until it was too late to be relevant and interesting. Under the Weight carries just as much meaning as something like Fiend, we just weren't really listening at the time.

And it's kind of hard to listen to it even now, because it's so fast paced to where you can't make out the lyrics.

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Originally Posted by Moomba33

Hey same here!
It's nice to see another Footsteps in the Snow enjoyer, it tends to get overshadowed by Oblivion.

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Love the slow build up, like an impending snowstorm :) It just sounds so good.

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Originally Posted by WhiteArchmage

I'd just like to point out that, even though Soken is amazing and To The Edge is one of the best songs I've ever heard and the orchestral version makes me tear up (not to mention the orchestral version of Flow, good gods...), he's not the sole composer in CBU3.

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He does do a lot, though! But everyone else's contributions are straight fire, too. The page for the Endwalker soundtrack, with info sourced directly from the booklet notes on who did what, show that Soken composes most (while Ishikawa and Imamura composed one or two) but they do a lot of arrangements - generally the dungeons since they're usually arrangements of the map music they're on (like Garlemald Express, love that track! Composed by Soken but arranged by Imamura, it's a fire track.) They should 100% get more credit though, Soken's music dept. has some fantastic talent.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

I think Oblivion works for two reasons.

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The end of what you quoted says it all though: it's a matter of tastes. Thematically yeah it's all fine and good but I'm just not a fan, regardless. Though tbf, all of the primal songs tend to do this from at least Ramuh up. I'd say Moggle Mog but, well... Moogle thoughts are all over the place and it feels more like the Mogglesguard and regular moogles and their worship. But Thunder Rolls is most definitely Ramuh's feelings on things and his own words, not the sahagin's worship for Leviathan or moogles talking about the great and powerful Good King Moggle Mog the XIIth, may his whiskers ever quiver. Oblivion's difference is Ysayle being able to summon a primal essence into her so it's her story, but also what she perceives to be Shiva's own.

Still doesn't change my thought much that it's a fairly mid track. I enjoy it, but if I had the choice I'd just not listen.

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

I still remember doing Titan HM for the first time, and my roommates stopping and listening to Under the Weight. My roommate's wife coming out of the bedroom like, "Is that music from the game? It is? Whoa..."

I don't think I understood what was being sang in it for a couple of years though, mainly because I misheard the lyrics for a long time/assumed some of them were just frenzied yelling.

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Gsdfgahggfds. JGDJFdfshdfs. Asgsfdsfjdfg TITAN!

I kmow qitanas ravel like the back of my hand purely because of its background theme. Ive played it atleast a hundred times just to hear the music. That said i think my favorite song in the game is the one that plays durring sad moments
My top 5 has to be footfalls,otherworld,crimson sunrise,mushroomery and under the stars from the fft raids hands down

I have consistently enjoyed the music in the game, but Endwalker turned out to be the exception. It has some good tracks, but I don't find myself listening to more than half a dozen of them outside of the game. For all the flack people gave to Stormblood's Ala Mhigan Anthem's motif, Endwalker often sounds like it only has variations of the same 2 tracks being used in cutscenes, cities and regular fights. At least Kugane and Rhalgr's Reach used completely different sides of the main themes, making one be associated to the Gyr Abania region and the other with the Othard and Hingashi regions. And even then the Doman Enclave has its own theme with completely different notes.

Leitmotifs are fine. They work well as signature for their expansions or large arcs of the expansions. But personally I think it's really meh to apply the same motif across completely different nations instead of giving the nations their own motif (like ARR nations have).

I can't think of any tunes I didn't like from EW, at least none that stick out like ShB's battle theme (it takes too long to build up and just clashes with the rest of that soundtrack).

My opinion is that all FF14 soundtrack, of all expansions are better than others MMO cause its more modern and not bind to classical style like wow, or medieval style, you have syncs, you have eletronic elements....its better. And mutch better than animes musics too. You have guitar, drums, bass...some musics even sounds like trance music.

Going through old posts in this thread is pretty funny because so many people don't seem to know that Soken actually doesn't work on every single track in the game. It's a common thing I've noticed among FFXIV fans but can't blame them for not knowing when such info is locked away on the official soundtracks.

So you're dissing the guy without even knowig if he was involved in the music you're dissing.

I suggest taking a look at "vgmdb.com", a great source of videogame music credits, and looking up FFXIV stuff. You'd be surprised by how many stuff is arranged by other people. Soken basically creates the main motifs and then the rest of the sound team arrange the tracks around Soken's ideas. That's hwhy he gets compositional credit but the actual meat of the track is someone else. The only OST that was 80% Soken on himself was A Realm Reborn.

Yes, I love FFXIV's soundtrack~! I sometimes like to afk in my favorite areas just so I can relax to the music when I'm doing chores or journaling ^-^

Certain songs give me chills down my spine. You know, the good kind? I can't explain it but I hope you guys know what I mean. Then theres's the songs that make me tear up due to certain memories associated with them, whether it be good, sad, or otherwise, and whether it be due to personal things, roleplay experiences, or the story itself.

Overall, yes. I have some particular favorites like Insanity and Return to Oblivion, but I can't think of a single song in this game's OST I actually dislike so far.

Athena, the Tireless One was my favorite from the most recent patch.