You are trolling if you are not using essences and actions in Delubrum

I don't use food in dungeons. But if dungeons took a half hour or longer on average because of people not eating food and food buffed my dps by 20% or even more than that, then yes I would.

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Originally Posted by NolChannel

Assuming essences cost 1500 each (lowballing) and the drop rate is one-in-three, a DR run "satisfactory to your standards" costs a total of 108,000 gil.

Do you pot for leveling dungeons, too?

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The thing is, you don't even really need everyone doing it.

The problem is when people don't use essences and then complain DR takes too long. Do people shoot themselves in the foot then complain about their limp?

Focusing on just essences, especially for dps jobs, is not looking at the whole picture. There is skirmisher, I think, but not any other cheap essences that directly boost their dps. Pretty stupid design to give only healers and tanks multiple choices.

On the other hand you can bring raise feathers to raise your healers and rdm, that damage skill that paires nicely with essence of the beast, cure 4 for the times you're missing a healer, debuffs for the boss, banners or party buffs. Imo, it's enough if you just bring something useful.

Pure essences at least can be bought with clusters and makes runs way more comfortable and still speedy aside the Doom thing. The only lame thing is still with stupid RNG.

Most of the time I get lost actions rather than essences and hate using other stuff that I could be using in Southern Front/Zadnor.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

Focusing on just essences, especially for dps jobs, is not looking at the whole picture. There is skirmisher, I think, but not any other cheap essences that directly boost their dps. Pretty stupid design to give only healers and tanks multiple choices.

On the other hand you can bring raise feathers to raise your healers and rdm, that damage skill that paires nicely with essence of the beast, cure 4 for the times you're missing a healer, debuffs for the boss, banners or party buffs. Imo, it's enough if you just bring something useful.

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I've rarely seen BLM or RDM uses Essence of Watcher, eventhough it's really great paired with Chainspell.
And with the effect duration now the same with the CD timer, you basically get perma instacast (plus perma 45% damage buff).

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Originally Posted by Caitlinzulu

I would love to see this fictional 15 minute delubrum run, would be amazing to witness. :P

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https://i.imgur.com/MeTiU6Y.png

Forgive me ... this is a pic of a 16 and a half min run.

Those fictional runs are true tho, just because the players here are happy with their 50min runs, does not mean thats the correct way.

Did you ever wonder why runs get longer and longer? They started at roughly 30-40ish min. And now expand up to 50, its very simple ... the players who want to play optimal do not queue normal anymore and setup runs to not carry others.

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Originally Posted by Voidedge_Ragna

https://i.imgur.com/MeTiU6Y.png

Forgive me ... this is a pic of a 16 and a half min run.

Those fictional runs are true tho, just because the players here are happy with their 50min runs, does not mean thats the correct way.

Did you ever wonder why runs get longer and longer? They started at roughly 30-40ish min. And now expand up to 50, its very simple ... the players who want to play optimal do not queue normal anymore and setup runs to not carry others.

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I imagine the premade is mostly 1 tank and rest DPS\Healer, right?

The fundamentals of a speed clear would be:

-One ranged with Lost Dervish per group

-One magic DPS with the Elder/Cure IV combo per group

-Two physical DPS with Rend Armor to maintain 100% uptime on the debuff

-One magic DPS set up to dump boosted Flare Stars on everything

I assume you would probably just want one tank and as few healers as possible as the pure essences for DPS are simply too powerful to really warrant bringing tanks/healers with DPS set-ups unlike Castrum/Dalriada.

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Originally Posted by Fland

I've rarely seen BLM or RDM uses Essence of Watcher, eventhough it's really great paired with Chainspell.
And with the effect duration now the same with the CD timer, you basically get perma instacast (plus perma 45% damage buff).

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The damage buff is actually separate from the 0 castime buff. So no, damage buff remains 30s long even w/ watcher.

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Originally Posted by Jettinson

I imagine the premade is mostly 1 tank and rest DPS\Healer, right?

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Plausible. Still, Healers & Tanks in this content can actually pull off some monstrous degree of damage surpassing some legit DPS when done right.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

The damage buff is actually separate from the 0 castime buff. So no, damage buff remains 30s long even w/ watcher.

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Really? Well, I didn't notice.
Regardless, you should consider using it for your caster if you don't have skirmisher or elder.

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Originally Posted by Kozh

How the hell do people not have enough essence?

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To be fair, SE should give out more of them. Basic tank/heal essences are easy to get, but dps is a bit more of a pain and the better essences and actions are generally low drop. I'd like to see fragments being added to the Bozjan coin vendors. It's not that hard to obtain them but still they should be encouraging us to have fun with the system, not treating it like a privilege to grind for.

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Originally Posted by ZedxKayn

I'm pretty sure people advocating for others to use essence are generally more likely to be in favor of a parser than against it.

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This is hilarious. All it takes to advocate for essences is to be someone who is actually usually contributing more than auto-attacks in DR and has some idea of what a fairly normal length of a DR run can be, let alone speed run. If I'm on my AST and I'm up to to multiple devotions on the first boss (for example) - there's a serious problem.

The longer that a DR drags on, the more chances that people will die to mechanics, not to mention, most people generally don't want to be in a 45 minute run. Increasingly, if there are DPS that won't use lost actions, if I see a WHM, I would hope that they would use profane - they'll get my cards and my thanks - unless hopefully any of those DPS having proofs of mettle.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

To be fair, SE should give out more of them. Basic tank/heal essences are easy to get, but dps is a bit more of a pain and the better essences and actions are generally low drop. I'd like to see fragments being added to the Bozjan coin vendors. It's not that hard to obtain them but still they should be encouraging us to have fun with the system, not treating it like a privilege to grind for.

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Yeah, pretty much. I'm swimming in Bloodsuckers at the moment. lol But I don't have many dps essences otherwise, maybe 4-5 each? They could definitely use a bit of an increase in their drop rates, or as you said maybe add more of them to a vendor to be purchased with coins.

I would love to if getting those things wasn't completely rng base. I get actions and pots for jobs I don't play and never will play. I'm not going to play a healer, melee, or a tank just bc I have a bunch of their actions and pots. I don't like playing those jobs and I do a lot worst than playing smn, dnc, or rdm with no actions. If it was like eureka where I could make the actions I wanted or if they just let you pick the actions from the fragments then I would use those all the time.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

Plausible. Still, Healers & Tanks in this content can actually pull off some monstrous degree of damage surpassing some legit DPS when done right.

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I actually primarily play tank in DR/Castrum/Dalraida nowadays, and healer when I have the essences, but I mostly just have tons of tank essences. I also have dozens of applicable damage increasing lost actions for burst.. Plus 10 damage valor..

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Originally Posted by IDontPetLalas

This is hilarious. All it takes to advocate for essences is to be someone who is actually usually contributing more than auto-attacks in DR and has some idea of what a fairly normal length of a DR run can be, let alone speed run. If I'm on my AST and I'm up to to multiple devotions on the first boss (for example) - there's a serious problem.

The longer that a DR drags on, the more chances that people will die to mechanics, not to mention, most people generally don't want to be in a 45 minute run. Increasingly, if there are DPS that won't use lost actions, if I see a WHM, I would hope that they would use profane - they'll get my cards and my thanks - unless hopefully any of those DPS having proofs of mettle.

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This.

Another way of looking at it: Would you do dungeons without your gear? Would you do any other content without your gear?

In bozja, everyone has the same stats, no matter what gear you wear. The only way you have to get past a baseline that is beneath the previous expansion's levels, is to use essences and lost actions, and these put you at the equivalent potential as Shadowbringers BiS or better.

Your essences and lost actions *are* your gear in Save the Queen.

Would you do dungeons without your gear?

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Sort of refuted your own point on your own here.

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Not really, for you it is encouragement. But as I have said I don't care how long the run is so I am not that encouraged to make the essence use mandatory :3

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Originally Posted by Gruntler

This.

Another way of looking at it: Would you do dungeons without your gear? Would you do any other content without your gear?

In bozja, everyone has the same stats, no matter what gear you wear. The only way you have to get past a baseline that is beneath the previous expansion's levels, is to use essences and lost actions, and these put you at the equivalent potential as Shadowbringers BiS or better.

Your essences and lost actions *are* your gear in Save the Queen.

Would you do dungeons without your gear?

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If my pants exploded after every dungeon and I had to go get new pants, yeah I would probably just stop wearing pants at some point.

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Originally Posted by Aelin_Ashryver

Not really, for you it is encouragement.

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https://media.giphy.com/media/DFNd1yVyRjmF2/giphy.gif

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Originally Posted by Gruntler

This.

Another way of looking at it: Would you do dungeons without your gear? Would you do any other content without your gear?

In bozja, everyone has the same stats, no matter what gear you wear. The only way you have to get past a baseline that is beneath the previous expansion's levels, is to use essences and lost actions, and these put you at the equivalent potential as Shadowbringers BiS or better.

Your essences and lost actions *are* your gear in Save the Queen.

Would you do dungeons without your gear?

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See I don't see this as a good comparison bc for the most part in getting gear you get some choice in what gear you can get in form of buying with tombstones or using a coffers on the job you want to gear. If fragments worked more like gear coffers from savage where you get the actions and essences base on the job you appraise as then I would say this is a good comparison but it's not. As someone who only plays smn and dnc I get more healer and tank actions and essences than dps ones for those jobs. The biggest problem with the fragments is the fact it's completely random on what you get a lot of times. Personally, I'm not going to switch my job to one I don't like playing just because I cant pick and choose the essences I want when I appraise the fragments. Now if I have actions and essences for my smn and dnc I use them but most of the time I don't. Like last night I used my last chainspell and my last Pure Essence of the Elder and now I most likely wont run DR with anything unless rng is kind to me and give me more of the stuff I can actually use. Shoot a way to trade actions and essences for those that are useful would be great.

I'm kind of the opposite, I go into DR on whatever class I currently have some good essences for. Forces me to change it up. I can't very well brag about having all 80s if I don't stop myself from getting rusty on them, right? I get tired of going as SMN for everything because it's my best geared class - well, in Delubrum, your best geared class is whatever you have a good essence for.

Last night I went in as a DPS DRK and had a blast. Another tank (a GNB I think) was in our party as MT and I kept tossing my TBN on him so our healers got more uptime too.

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Originally Posted by MrJPtheAssassin

See I don't see this as a good comparison bc for the most part in getting gear you get some choice in what gear you can get in form of buying with tombstones or using a coffers on the job you want to gear. If fragments worked more like gear coffers from savage where you get the actions and essences base on the job you appraise as then I would say this is a good comparison but it's not. As someone who only plays smn and dnc I get more healer and tank actions and essences than dps ones for those jobs. The biggest problem with the fragments is the fact it's completely random on what you get a lot of times. Personally, I'm not going to switch my job to one I don't like playing just because I cant pick and choose the essences I want when I appraise the fragments. Now if I have actions and essences for my smn and dnc I use them but most of the time I don't. Like last night I used my last chainspell and my last Pure Essence of the Elder and now I most likely wont run DR with anything unless rng is kind to me and give me more of the stuff I can actually use. Shoot a way to trade actions and essences for those that are useful would be great.

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It's called the marketboard

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Originally Posted by IDontPetLalas

It's called the marketboard

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They meant trade the ones you already have for ones you need. Buying them off the marketboard doesn't guarantee it will appraise into the essence you actually want.

And with the prices of fragments you could easily spend half a million gil and not even get one of the type of essence you wanted, so it's not really a viable solution.

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Originally Posted by Gruntler

This.

Another way of looking at it: Would you do dungeons without your gear? Would you do any other content without your gear?

In bozja, everyone has the same stats, no matter what gear you wear. The only way you have to get past a baseline that is beneath the previous expansion's levels, is to use essences and lost actions, and these put you at the equivalent potential as Shadowbringers BiS or better.

Your essences and lost actions *are* your gear in Save the Queen.

Would you do dungeons without your gear?

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If I had to buy/farm a new set of gear after every run then yea, if the game let me queue without it, and we could still clear the content, I eventually would.

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Originally Posted by Catwho

I'm kind of the opposite, I go into DR on whatever class I currently have some good essences for. Forces me to change it up. I can't very well brag about having all 80s if I don't stop myself from getting rusty on them, right? I get tired of going as SMN for everything because it's my best geared class - well, in Delubrum, your best geared class is whatever you have a good essence for.

Last night I went in as a DPS DRK and had a blast. Another tank (a GNB I think) was in our party as MT and I kept tossing my TBN on him so our healers got more uptime too.

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For me just what I feel comfortable with doing content on. I have everything to 80 but Im really bad at healer and really hate healing tbh. Tanks Im so-so on but I feel Im more deadweight on a Job I dont know super well. SMN, RDM, and DNC I know the rotations on and can do decent dps on them vs other jobs like healers and tanks.

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Originally Posted by IDontPetLalas

It's called the marketboard

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That doesn't solve the rng part of fragments. You just spending Gil in hopes to get actions and essences you can use on the job you want to play. You can only buy the fragments, not the Essences and actions, those are still up to rng base on the fragments you use. Also as someone who wants to move their large one day, I'm not going to waste my Gil just to make few ppl runs go faster. Moving my home to an area I like better is more important to me than wasting Gil on fragments in hopes I don't end up with a bunch of tank and healer stuff.

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

They meant trade the ones you already have for ones you need. Buying them off the marketboard doesn't guarantee it will appraise into the essence you actually want.

And with the prices of fragments you could easily spend half a million gil and not even get one of the type of essence you wanted, so it's not really a viable solution.

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Yeah, I've never bought a fragment in my life, but I appreciate people advertising them.

Selling fragments on the market board, then go Delubrum without using essences... getting paid for getting carried. You leecher really have no pride at all.

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Originally Posted by OrigNN

Selling fragments on the market board, then go Delubrum without using essences... getting payed for getting carried. You leecher really have no pride at all.

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Don't be the idiot that pays us and then "carries" us lmao

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

To be fair, SE should give out more of them. Basic tank/heal essences are easy to get, but dps is a bit more of a pain and the better essences and actions are generally low drop. I'd like to see fragments being added to the Bozjan coin vendors. It's not that hard to obtain them but still they should be encouraging us to have fun with the system, not treating it like a privilege to grind for.

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Completely agree with this

Still...
There still exist a few players that refuses to meld despite the game literally raining us with materias. I got a feeling even if we do get this change, we’ll still run into the same “LmAo YoU dOn’T nEeD eSsEnCe JuSt SeLl ThEm In MaRkEtBoArD tO bUy GlAm :V”

The part of me that gets me if people complain about the content and the fact they have to do said content for their relic, but the game provides a means to get through the content quicker but people refuse to do said means because they dislike said content even though in the long run it would result in less overall time doing said content. I am confused!

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Originally Posted by Gruntler

Another way of looking at it: Would you do dungeons without your gear? Would you do any other content without your gear?

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No I would quit the game if I had to grind for new Gear everytime I want to enter a dungeon.

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

They meant trade the ones you already have for ones you need. Buying them off the marketboard doesn't guarantee it will appraise into the essence you actually want.

And with the prices of fragments you could easily spend half a million gil and not even get one of the type of essence you wanted, so it's not really a viable solution.

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I'm quite aware of that, and i do feel that the cost is exaggerated -unless of course it happens to be exceptionally expensive on your sever- but even then, you can get around that. Even so, not all fragments are the same price - the very best fragments aren't even needed, strictly speaking in savage content, hell if cost is such a an issue, run the fairly decent most half or even sometimes. So yes, it really is a viable solution for anyone who cares at all about put in a half decent effort.

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Originally Posted by Awha

The part of me that gets me if people complain about the content and the fact they have to do said content for their relic, but the game provides a means to get through the content quicker but people refuse to do said means because they dislike said content even though in the long run it would result in less overall time doing said content. I am confused!

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It's not that complicated. Me using an essence will shave maybe a minute off the run. In order to get that essence I'll need to spend maybe 10 minutes farming the content I don't like, and it's still RNG so who knows, might not even get what I need.

Make at least the standard essences something you unlock and always have access to and people will use them. Force people to keep circling back to SF to farm them and most people won't bother, because it's a negative time investment.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

It's not that complicated. Me using an essence will shave maybe a minute off the run. In order to get that essence I'll need to spend maybe 10 minutes farming the content I don't like, and it's still RNG so who knows, might not even get what I need.

Make at least the standard essences something you unlock and always have access to and people will use them. Force people to keep circling back to SF to farm them and most people won't bother, because it's a negative time investment.

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Though if you spend the time farming them out then join the PF you can blitz through the content at a small price of dealing with the setup grind.

Though even using your situation if more people used essences then you will not be the only one using the essences then everyone's time in yhe content would be overall shorter. This idea of well if only I use it does not change much of everything true, though since many think like that yet still complain about the content just baffles me.

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Originally Posted by Aelin_Ashryver

Don't be the idiot that pays us and then "carries" us lmao

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Exactly the answer I expected. Thank you for proving my point.

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Originally Posted by Awha

Though if you spend the time farming them out then join the PF you can blitz through the content at a small price of dealing with the setup grind.

Though even using your situation if more people used essences then you will not be the only one using the essences then everyone's time in yhe content would be overall shorter. This idea of well if only I use it does not change much of everything true, though since many think like that yet still complain about the content just baffles me.

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The funny thing is that even if everyone in DF was using essences farming them would still be a negative time investment. Mathematically speaking, in a short run your contribution counts for even less time, so instead of saving a minute by using an essence you've saved maybe 30 seconds. Bozja is just very poorly designed content from a time investment/rewards standpoint. It'll ALWAYS be more efficient for you to do the bare minimum. Don't get mad at the players who were smart enough to realize it, get mad at SE for designing it that way.

As for PF; static groups who all agree to go in 100% will always set the efficiency curve. If you can get into one and stomach the rigidity and scheduling then yes, that would be the most efficient thing to do. People are upset that no one uses essences in DF, though. I'm just explaining why they don't.

I don't know if people can be mad at SE, I think SE simply overestimated their playerbase.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I don't know if people can be mad at SE, I think SE simply overestimated their playerbase.

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On an individual basis SE made farming essences less efficient than running content without them. Any player with half a brain who realizes this isn't going to bother farming essences for DF.

This is SE's incompetent design, so yea blame them. People who spent time farming essences specifically for DF DR just kind of screwed themselves over by not doing the math, or not understanding it, and I guess they're a little bitter about it.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I don't know if people can be mad at SE, I think SE simply overestimated their playerbase.

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The thing is, they assumed whole playerbase is like those we see in japanese community: team based efforts. But because the game houses more than just japanese community, this of course falls apart when it come across to the more individualistic community: NA server (can’t speak for EU cause I have no idea)

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

On an individual basis SE made farming essences less efficient than running content without them. Any player with half a brain who realizes this isn't going to bother farming essences for DF.

This is SE's incompetent design, so yea blame them. People who spent time farming essences specifically for DF DR just kind of screwed themselves over by not doing the math, or not understanding it, and I guess they're a little bitter about it.

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I just didn't want to feel guilty going into the content without them c.c But after 2 hours of cluster farming and only getting 8 essences I was kinda pissed...