Red Mage: I am not a Back line class

OMG, yes yes yessssss... Red Mage was always my absolute favorite, but I hated when higher levels of Red Mage in XI forced me into the back.

I've been doing a pretty extensive build up on Fen/Mskt/RDM for the better part of the day. Granted it's probably not exactly what most people will expect, I hope it can at least incorporate a structure to base off of. I'll post it once I do some editing and add some organization.

As long as RDM isn't over powered like it has been for a long time in FFXI. With malee/spell combo, comes reduced damage in each part.

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Originally Posted by Firon

1. Make RDM attack spells cost tp.

2. Make support spells like en-fire and such cost mp but gain more effectiveness when the caster has more than 1k tp.

3. Let Red mage combo into spells. Ex: Poison Thrust > Silence Thrust > Fira(Single target for Red mage).

I really don't want to see this class to feel like an Pure Mage again.

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1. Red Mage could have very high Melee Accuracy but low Damage. TP builds up very quickly. Convert (exclusive to RDM) converts TP into MP.

2. I like your suggestion, essentially save TP for increased melee dmg or Convert to mp for increased Enfeebling/Magic Attack Strength.

3.Excellent idea. Forces RDM to manage TP / MP ratios to be most effective.

4. Refresh: make it a Cross Class Mage Ability. Refresh transfers casters MP pool (25-75%) to single target.

rdm will be something else who knows what but it will be streamlined like every other class in the game and you wont have a massive list of spells in FFXIV. remember you get 5 job ablitys and 20 other cross class at lv50. and will probly have to wait for fencer to be unlocked.

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Originally Posted by Keyln

Actually, that's not true. In most games, summoning was it's own thing, not really associated with any other type of magic. While it was true that the same character had white magic and summoning magic in some of the games (IX and X specifically), most of the time, it was its own thing which can be used in conjunction with other types of magic (III, V, XI) or other magic (IV) or it's own special system (VI, VII, VIII, XII, XIII).

It is not true that summoning magic has always been with healing magic.

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No actually most games where summoner is tied to a char and not a equipped item like FF 6-8 it has mostly had white magic. Rydia had both white and black Eiko and dagger both had white magic and so did yuna That right there is like the whole FF series iconic summoners...

Why are people trying to make RDM into what 11 had, RDM should not get refresh nor should they be an enfeeblist.

I agree that summoner should not have any healing magic, give them cross class skills of a THM but not CNJ.

I spent the better part of the day putting this together and I think it would work out well when/if Red Mage is implemented.

Fair Warning: This is based off my personal interpretation of how classes are currently built, granted there is probably a mistake here and there. I tried to build Fencer / Musketeer as structurally similar to how other classes setup as possible, so it may not be quite what people expected.

Second Fair Warning: This is a huge detailed wall of text, I'm using hide tags to try and condense it all.

Fencer / Musketeer

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Fencer / Musketeer

Weapon: Epee, Saber, Rapier type weapons.
Offhand: Parrying Daggers (Weak secondary weapon, deals little damage but increases parry chances.)
Armors: Cloth, Leather, Jackets, Harness, Scale, Chainmail (Excluding Habergeons)

Damage Modifiers: Intelligence, Piety

Incapacitation Weaponskills: Coule’- Left Arm, Backsword- Rear

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Weaponskills

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Weaponskills


Reprise- Swing your blade around your opponents defenses when an opponent blocks, doges, or parries your attack.
TP Cost: 250, Recast: 15 Seconds

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Frontal Combo Tree:

Passata-Soto > Coule' > Enfeebling Spell

Passata-Soto- Move under your targets oncoming attacks and strike under their defenses. Increases Dodge rate.
TP Cost: 1000, Recast: 10 Seconds, Duration: 5 Seconds

Coule'- Perform a feint attack and strike when their defense is down. Enhanced damage if you just dodged or parried an attack.
Combo Bonus:Increased Critical Damage
TP Cost: 1500, Recast: 20 Seconds

Enfeebling Spell- Normally cast any Enfeebling spell.
Combo Bonus: Guarantees enfeeble will land for full duration, bypasses built up resistance. (Will not reset resistance timer.)

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Rear Combo Tree 1:

Thrust > Extension > Enfeebling Spell

Thrust- Dash forward and impale your enemy. Closes distance between player and opponent.
TP Cost: 1000, Recast: 10 Seconds, Distance: 5 Yalms

Extension- Deliver a ranged attack while distancing yourself from the target.
Distance: 5 Yalms
Combo Bonus: Reduces Enmity
TP Cost: 1500, Recast: 20 Seconds

Enfeebling Spell- Normally cast any Enfeebling spell.
Combo Bonus: Consume extra MP to inflict elemental damage in addition to the status ailment. (Will cause Elemental damage even if status ailment does not land.)

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Rear Combo Tree 2:

Thrust > Backsword > Enfeebling Spell

Thrust- Dash forward and impale your enemy. Closes distance between player and opponent.
TP Cost: 1000, Recast: 10 Seconds, Distance: 5 Yalms

Backsword- Strike your target with the back of your blade inflicting Stun.
Combo Bonus: Increases Stun Duration and Accuracy.
TP Cost: 2000, Recast: 20 Seconds

Enfeebling Spell- Normally cast any Enfeebling spell.
Combo Bonus: Increases Duration and Potency.

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Job Abilities

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Job Abilities

Attaque au Fer / Pressure- Pressure your target keeping him from attacking effectively reducing the targets attack power.
Recast: 1:00 Minute, Duration: 20 seconds

Change of Engagement- Lure your target into a false sense of security leaving them open to attack reducing their defense.
Recast: 1:00 Minute, Duration: 20 seconds

Lines- Increases the party’s success rate of incapacitating the target. (Fencer term when focusing on a particular part of the body, thought it was fitting)
Recast: 5:00 Minutes, Duration: 1:00 Minute

Siphon / Runic Blade- Steal your opponents MP for your own.
Recast: 1:00 Minute

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Spells

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Spells

I'm leaving the MP costs up to the developers, but I was thinking low cost for the Enfeebling spell and mid-high MP cost for the combo that adds elemental damage to balance it out.

Blind- Reduces target's accuracy.
Cast: 3 seconds, Recast: 1:00 Minute, Duration: 30 seconds

Poison- Deals damage over time on opponent.
Cast: 3 seconds, Recast: 1:00 Minute, Duration: 30 seconds

Slow- Reduces target’s attack speed.
Cast: 3 seconds, Recast: 1:00 Minute, Duration: 30 seconds

Gravity- Decreases target’s movement speed
Cast: 3 seconds, Recast: 1:00 Minute, Duration: 30 seconds

Paralyze- Occasionally prevents opponent from performing an action.
Cast: 3 seconds, Recast: 1:00 Minute, Duration: 30 seconds

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Traits

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Traits
Enhanced Physical Attack- Increases Attack power by +8.

Enhanced Attaque au Fer/Pressure- Lowers targets attack even further.

Enhanced Parry- Increases parry rate by +8

Swift Enfeebler- Reduces the recast time of Enfeebling spells by 15 seconds.

Enhanced Evasion- Increases physical evasion by +8.

Enhanced Magic Siphon/Runic Blade- Increases MP stolen from target by 25%.

Enhanced Magical Accuracy- Increases magic accuracy by +8.

Enhanced Change of Engagement- Lowers targets defense even further.

Enhanced Magic Potency- Increases magic attack potency by +8.

Enhanced Enfeebler- Increases the duration of Enfeeble spells by 15 seconds.

Enhanced Magic Siphon / Runic Blade II- Increases MP stolen from target by 50%.

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Level Progression / Abilities Learned

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Level Progression / Abilities Learned

Level > Type > Ability

1 > WS > Passata-Sotto
2 > JA > Attaque au Fer / Pressure
4 > WS > Reprise
6 > Spell > Blind
8 > Trait > Enhanced Physical Attack
10 > WS > Thrust

12 > Trait > Enhanced Attaque au Fer / Presssure
14 > JA > Magic Siphon / Runic Blade
16 > Trait > Enhanced Parry
18 > Spell > Poison
20 > Trait > Swift Enfeebler

22 > JA > Change of Engagement
24 > Trait > Enhanced Evasion
26 > WS > Coule'
28 > Trait > Enhanced Magic Siphon / Runic Blade
30 > WS > Extension

32 > Trait > Enhanced Magical Accuracy
34 > Spell > Slow
36 > Trait > Enhanced Change of Engagement
38 > Spell > Gravity
40 > Trait > Enhanced Magic Potency

42 > JA > Lines
44 > Trait > Enhanced Enfeebler
46 > Spell > Paralyze
48 > Trait > Enhanced Magic Siphon / Runic Blade II
50 > WS > Backsword

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Red Mage

Weaponskills

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Weaponskills

Rear Combo Tree:

Thrust > Endless Waltz > Banish / Scourge

Thrust- Dash forward and impale your enemy. Closes distance between player and opponent.
TP Cost: 1000, Recast: 10 Seconds, Distance: 5 Yalms

Endless Waltz- Dance like the wind and eviscerate your opponent with a series of quick powerful attacks.
Combo Bonus: Increases Critical attack rate for each successful hit.
TP Cost: 3000, Recast: 30 Seconds

Banish- Cast Banish on your opponent.
Combo Bonus: Lowers opponents magic attack.

Scourge- Cast Scourge on your opponent.
Combo Bonus: Lowers opponents magic defense.

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Job Abilities:

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Job Abilities

Sacrifice- Give up half your maximum HP in order to heal an ally and grant them temporary protection from harm.
Recast: 1:00 Minute, Duration: 5 Seconds

Master of Magic / Chainspell - Allows player to cast spells without cast or recast time. Spells currently in cool-down will automatically be reset.
Recast: 15:00 Minutes, Duration: 20 Seconds

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Spells

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Spells

Banish- Deals Astral damage and heavy damage over time effect.
Combo Bonus: Lowers opponents magic attack.
Cast: 3 Seconds, Recast: 1:00 Minute, Duration: 30 Seconds

Scourge- Deals Umbral Damage and heavy damage over time effect.
Combo Bonus: Lowers opponents magic defense.
Cast: 3 Seconds, Recast: 1:00 Minute, Duration: 30 Seconds

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Level Progression / Abilities Learned

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Level Progression / Abilities Learned

Level > Type > Ability

30 > JA > Sacrifice
35 > Spell > Banish
40 > Spell > Scourge
45 > WS > Endless Waltz
50 > JA > Master of Magic / Chainspell

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Red Mage Quest Line

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Red Mage Quest Line

Lv30
Quest: Know Hardships and Sacrifice
Reward: Sacrifice, Ability to become Red Mage
Focus: To impart knowledge of RDM lore, one must be able to dedicate themselves to a cause and know the pain, suffering, and joy in life before they can truly know if they’re ready for the future trials. Battle for someone / something that requires personal self-sacrifice to protect.

Lv35
Quest: Blinded by Light
Reward: Banish
Focus: Since RDM focuses on arts based on the path of light and darkness, one must know that light is not always truly good. Battle against an opponent who’s been blinded by own self righteousness, warping his form.
Recommend: Prince of Pestilence (Can’t remember if he was already used in any Job Quests)

Lv40
Quest: Drowning in Darkness
Reward: Scourge
Focus: Continuation of previous quest, now you must learn that darkness is not always truly evil. Battle an opponent who’s sorrow has warped his form.
Recommend: Unknown Soldier

Lv45
Quest: Lost Lineage
Reward: Endless Waltz, 4/5 Red Mage Artifact Pieces
Focus: Now you have proven yourself worthy of RDM lore, your next task is to seek out other relics of the lost order.

Lv50
Quest: Personification Extraordinaire
Reward: Master of Magic / Chainspell, 5th Red Mage Artifact Piece
Focus: Before your mentor can pass on the final piece of knowledge to you and let you become a true Red Mage, you must prove to him your progress and show your really ready to wear the armor that epitomizes a Red Mage master.

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O.o... Whew... that took forever. I might make it into it's own thread too if people think its a good idea.

^ that sounds more like mystic from FFT.

I'm all for melee-ranged spellsword skills. What comes to mind is FFXIII's way they did things, like flamestrike or icestrike.

Only problem I see is they'd have to give them their own special kind of swords to fit into the armory system.
I say orbs that turn to swords in active mode and turn back to orbs in passive mode.
Make Alchemist/Goldsmith make them, and bam, profit!

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Originally Posted by Jinko

^ that sounds more like mystic from FFT.

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Yeah I tried wrapping my head around possible ways to incorporate black and white magic into the mix, but the way FFXIV is setup it makes it almost impossible to do without making it's own spells and abilities. The problem with that is you might end up with another situation like the whole WAR/PLD debacle where RDM steals WHM or BLMs position in a group, or you make the job so under-powered in comparison nobody will want it.

I thought the easiest way to get around the whole thing was just fit it in a role that isn't being taken at the moment and just have ways to supplement playstyle.

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Originally Posted by SwordCoheir

Yeah I tried wrapping my head around possible ways to incorporate black and white magic into the mix, but the way FFXIV is setup it makes it almost impossible to do without making it's own spells and abilities. The problem with that is you might end up with another situation like the whole WAR/PLD debacle where RDM steals WHM or BLMs position in a group, or you make the job so under-powered in comparison nobody will want it.

I thought the easiest way to get around the whole thing was just fit it in a role that isn't being taken at the moment and just have ways to supplement playstyle.

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Well seeing as to the best of my knowledge there has only been one traditional full Fencer job in all of FF (aka Fencer in FF tactics) i would base the class abilities around that, where as the job unlock wold be more singularly focused RDM spells and abilities.

Another branch off the Fencer class instead of RDM could be the Elementalist from FF tactics.

The only reason i bring up FF tactics (twice) is because it has one of the widest arrays of FF jobs.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Why are people trying to make RDM into what 11 had, RDM should not get refresh nor should they be an enfeeblist.

I agree that summoner should not have any healing magic, give them cross class skills of a THM but not CNJ.

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This. Also yeah no thanks to SMN healing. Maybe the pet could have access to some aura PT regen thing, or the pets can nuke..idk. Just as long as the actual Summoner is not relied on as a main healer like in XI /dies

Hush and know your place fewl! hehehe.

No I agree. I felt this when I played my redmage on XI...however I felt the same way with Summoner...neither better not be put in the back seat >.>; I will be pissed if they are.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Why are people trying to make RDM into what 11 had, RDM should not get refresh nor should they be an enfeeblist.

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Probably because FFXI's RDM was actually a different take on what it generally was, especially in the earlier games. Why shouldn't it be an enfeeblist? Especially when SE already confirmed there will be a mage class that deals with it? Or are you in the frame of thought enfeebles should go to every mage and we have no specialists in this game?

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Originally Posted by Babydoll

This. Also yeah no thanks to SMN healing. Maybe the pet could have access to some aura PT regen thing, or the pets can nuke..idk. Just as long as the actual Summoner is not relied on as a main healer like in XI /dies

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Ironically enough SMN is more like the classic style SMN these days in FFXI.

WHen you have Mage in the title... it would follwo the mage line of things.

As logn as it is balanced, you can't be both a pwoerfull malee and caster at the same time. But a Caster that has to build points to cast through malee, woudl balance it out.

Plus, please brign in SMN. Not a buff happy one either. It kinda got ruined.

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Originally Posted by kazaran

Plus, please brign in SMN. Not a buff happy one either. It kinda got ruined.

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I don't think SMN was ever buff happy in any of the games. In XI it had some USEFUL buffs, but SMN is probably one of the most damaging jobs in new content outside of those who have Empyrean/Relic/Mythic weapons.

Especially SMNs who did their trials or went after a Nirvana.

Definitely was in FFXI (inb4 someone tells me their 1337 rdm haxxorz melee set-up). I don't think we'll see a repeat of the same though since supposedly it's going to stem from fencer or something? Anyways I'm sure ffxiv RDM will be awesome.

I fear, this game will need an alternate healing class soonish though. but what...

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Originally Posted by AlaulaTheGreat

I fear, this game will need an alternate healing class soonish though. but what...

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Chemist~ Just don't make it have to hoard ingredients -.-;

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Originally Posted by AlaulaTheGreat

I fear, this game will need an alternate healing class soonish though. but what...

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I would love to see a Devout job.

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__...FF3-Devout.png

I've had my hopes up for Red Mage since I saw it in the third player's poll, I believe the choice was 'A front line debuffing job (Red Mage)'. Not sure if that was the exact wording but 'front line' was definitely in there...

I played Red Mage in XI for years, I loved the job but always felt it never quite lived up to it's full potential (at least in parties, soloing I pushed the limits and enjoyed every minute of it). But I digress, I don't want to copy Red Mage exactly from XI to here, now it's time for Red Mage 2.0.

Now even though Fencer sounds like a class that wouldn't use any magic at all, it's somewhat of a necessity that it does since the majority of skills will come from the base class (only 5 of 20 abilities come from jobs at this time) so Fencer is going to feel alot like Red Mage since I just can't fit the entirety of the Red Mage job in a measly 5 skills.

So here is my suggestion for a build for the Fencer class and the Red Mage job as I hope it might be here in FF XIV:

Weaponskills (in combo order, names are just off the top of my head)

Thrust - Basic rapier attack; damage increased from in front of the target
combos to:
Flourish - lowers target's accuracy; combo bonus increased accuracy down effect
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Indirect - chance to inflict TP bleed when executed from the left or right of the target
combos to:
Spirit Taker - Inflicts damage to target's MP; combo bonus drain MP
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Fletch - a running attack that passes through the target, chance to inflict Bleed when used from the front of the target.
combos to:
Tranche - stun attack, chance to stun increased when used from behind the target.
combos to:
(Red Mage weaponskill) Death Blossom - powerful attack that inflicts magic evasion down; combo bonus increase magic evasion down effect.

I know this is fewer weaponskills then most other jobs get but I thought it was important to keep the idea of a melee mage, and more WS means less mage, so trying to keep it balanced. Important to note that the weaponskills inflict abnormal status ailments (ie. flourish inflicts accuracy down effect rather then blind), this is important to allow the Red Mage to stack WS effects and direct spells (like blind) for extra enfeebling potency. I also Included the unusual effect of Spirit Taker, it would deal MP damage rather then HP damage, ideally this would be balanced such that it would potentially be possible to use it to fully deplete an opponent's MP before their HP (maybe 2 or 3 hits for most mobs 4-5 for a boss). This could potentially be powerful but could be balanced by giving bosses an MP recovery move, this would be a better counter then simply giving bosses impossibly huge MP pools since while it would keep Spirit Taker from locking down spell casting completely it would still be useful as a delaying move (making the boss waste TP to recover MP). Also the MP drain effect would probably not be equal to the full damage of the WS but at least some reasonable return. For Fletch I was thinking that the WS animation would actually move your character through the mob. (sort of like Shoulder Tackle) Ideally this would be quick enough to allow you to combo with Tranche even when soloing (like how it is possible to hit mobs from left or right if your timing is good).

Spells:

Blind

Slow

Silence

Paralyze

Haste

The classic debuffing spells for direct, on demand debuffs, plus haste to help with soloing and support role in parties. Maybe swap one out for Bind for crowd control.

Red Mage Job spells:

Dispel - a potentially powerful debuff

Refresh - yeah I know this probably going to be flamed, but right now it seems that XIV is in need of another refreshing support job, especially a single target caster to help with PLD. I don't mind if Red Mage is that job so long as it isn't the main focus.

Abilities:

Cold Steel (Enblizzard) - adds ice elemental damage to attacks and inflicts evasion down. Consumes MP while active.

Arcing Steel (Enthunder) - adds lightning elemental damage to attacks and inflicts attack down. Consumes MP while active.

(Red Mage ability) Liquid Steel (Enwater) - adds water elemental damage to attacks and inflicts defense down. Consumes MP while active.

Expose - reset's the target's resistance to your next enfeebling magic spell.

Composure - dodge next area of effect attack.

Here's where the meat is. In order to make sure Red Mage isn't pushed to the back lines I thought it would be good to make the enspells the primary means of debuffing a target. Additionally I tried to make each enhancing spell as useful as possible, Wind based mobs are weak to Ice damage and also are more likely to have high evasion, Earth based mobs are weak to water and also are more likely to have high defense, attack down on enthunder was just to fill out the triad (probably wouldn't be used much). I limited it to just these three in order to make Red Mage the elemental counterpart to Monk. Exposure is needed because all of the traditional debuffs are nerfed by the crowd control adjustments, this lets you be able to at least stick one debuff on any mob at any time. Composure is absolutely essential, especially since Red Mage would most likely have the lowest HP pool of any job in melee, it will require a very potent survival ability just to avoid being a liability in combat.

15 Minute ability:

Runic Blade - Absorb hostile spells with your sword, nullifying their effect and restoring your MP.

I thought this would make a good support role ability, probably be a suitably short duration (10s probably). It could be chainspell, but why? With no native offensive spells chainspell would be very underwhelming, since spamming enfeebles would just build the mobs resistance.

Traits (in no particular order):

Enhanced Physical Accuracy

Enhanced Magic Accuracy, levels 1 and 2

Enhanced Enfeebling Magic Potency, levels 1 and 2

Swift Composure

Enhanced Composure - increases melee damage and reduces TP the target gains from your attacks while composure is active (thinking 30s duration or untill it's consumed by an aoe attack)

Swift Expose

Enhanced Expose - adds a chance to reset the target's resistance to all enfeebling magic.

Fast Cast, levels 1 and 2 - 15% (20% at level 2) chance of having your next spell cast instantly (I thought this would be more noticeable then having your 2 second cast times reduced by 20% but the overall effect would be the same. Numbers are assuming an Enhances Fast Cast trait on AF armor bringing the total to 25%. The primary purpose of this is to reduce the effect of spell casting on melee capability, it would have no effect on recast times)

Red Mage cross class skills would probably be best as CNJ and THM since without any native heals or nukes this would help keep the image of a generalist mage as well as give Red Mage a good list of support abilities (being in melee makes the Red Mage perfectly placed to pop off Sacred Prism + Sanguine Rite).

This is just my idea, it could certainly be better. I just hope that we can influence any decisions regarding the job to make sure it is both useful and more importantly is enjoyable to play.

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Originally Posted by Firon

No actually most games where summoner is tied to a char and not a equipped item like FF 6-8 it has mostly had white magic. Rydia had both white and black Eiko and dagger both had white magic and so did yuna That right there is like the whole FF series iconic summoners...

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Rydia (IV) ditched the white magic early on in the game to learn black magic fully. In this case, summoning magic was tied to black magic, not white magic.

It is true that both Eiko and Garnet (IX) both had white magic and summoning magic. However, this is the only game in the series that had white magic and summoning magic tied together.

Yuna (X) usually had white magic, but she was a summoner first. Using the sphere grid though, players can make Yuna pick up black magic instead, or warrior skills, or thief skills. Or any other character can be white magic. So, while by default, Yuna could do white magic, it wasn't necessarily true.

With that said, in the rest of the series, summoning magic isn't tied to white or black magic, but it's own special system, either as magic, or something entirely different.

Won't quote entire thing Eremor since it's long but I could definitely get behind a class that fills the sort of role you describe... though I wouldn't give them haste personally, damage and enfeebling is enough. Also haven't they hinted at time mage somewhere? (they'd get slow and haste spells basically)

I like that the enspells described are the elements mnk doesn't use and at the same time they're element damage + enfeebles which opposes mnk's element damage + buffs.

The composure skills/traits seem less focused than the rest of the class and I'd have liked to see some combos that use both spells and WS; as a random from-the-aether pull, silence (silences target)->stifle (extends duration of initial silence and turns single target WS into an aoe with silence effect.)

9/10 otherwise.

I must be one of the few people who DO NOT want to see RDM gain Mystic Knight's Spellblade abilities. That is the one job that has been shafted after FFV and I would love to see it come back to its original glory. Whatever they plan to do with RDM is fine, but please, do not give them Spellblade spells.

ws and magic combos are a good idea

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Originally Posted by Firon

As the title says Red Mage is not a back line class I hope it's not when they implement it.

I know a lot of folks who want this class/job, I also know many more people who don't this job to be standing in the back with the white mage casting cure. In XI this class was hit or miss with a lot of folks some quit the class cause they were criticized for melee, thus in turn could play the class the way they wanted.

I have a few idea's that could help stop this from happening in this game as well.

1. Make RDM attack spells cost tp.

2. Make support spells like en-fire and such cost mp but gain more effectiveness when the caster has more than 1k tp.

3. Let Red mage combo into spells. Ex: Poison Thrust > Silence Thrust > Fira(Single target for Red mage).

That's all i could think of for now if you have any other idea's so Red Mage wont get stuck in a back line position like in XI. Please give some feedback, or suggestions.

I really don't want to see this class to feel like an Pure Mage again.

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Excellent idea! If they used this plan for RDM I would instantly switch mains!

Here here! Yes! I love the ideas being shot around. I agree with Firon, it should be a frontline class! TP2Magic is a great idea!

sure, a mage who need to melee to combo, and will be the class noone want to fight bosses

Aoe -> RDM died

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Originally Posted by Raistlin

sure, a mage who need to melee to combo, and will be the class noone want to fight bosses

Aoe -> RDM died

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Mage isn't automatically a glass cannon hybrids exist. Hell cnj aren't terrible at taking hits.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

Probably because FFXI's RDM was actually a different take on what it generally was, especially in the earlier games. Why shouldn't it be an enfeeblist? Especially when SE already confirmed there will be a mage class that deals with it? Or are you in the frame of thought enfeebles should go to every mage and we have no specialists in this game?.

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I've already said that enfeebles should be on a green/time mage, which should be a back line class, RDM should be a melee class with elementals DoT's based weaponskills and spells.

I'm not arguing that there shouldn't be a role for enfeebling, I'm saying I don't' want it to be RDM.

I'll repeat myself seeing as you didn't read my other posts, what I would like to see is:-

Arcanist > GRN > Enfeebling/time magic, astral and umbral spells. (cross class from THM,PUG)
Fencer > RDM > Enspells, Weaponskills that inflict elemental DoT's and Water spells. (cross class from both THM and CNJ)

Seeing as RDM is water they could get aquaviel which when used with sacred prism could be an AoE party buff, sacred prism + enspell AoE elemental weapon buffs.

There was nothing wrong with RDM in ffxi, well until later on when WHM overtook their job in most situations. Hell RDM/NIN was on par with or more superior to NIN/DRK and PLD tanking until they messed with the enmity on spells. There was a place where RDM's stay back, and when they could go up and melee.

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Originally Posted by Nekirr

There was nothing wrong with RDM in ffxi, well until later on when WHM overtook their job in most situations.

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LOL the irony.

It was RDM that took the role from WHM to begin with, WHM just took back what was theirs :P

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Originally Posted by Jinko

LOL the irony.

It was RDM that took the role from WHM to begin with, WHM just took back what was theirs :P

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WHM took more than just their role back. There was barely any originality in RDM over WHM besides Refresh II at 99, and at 99 Mp regeneration became so easy sometimes refresh was unnecessary.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

I've already said that enfeebles should be on a green/time mage, which should be a back line class, RDM should be a melee class with elementals DoT's based weaponskills and spells.

I'm not arguing that there shouldn't be a role for enfeebling, I'm saying I don't' want it to be RDM.

I'll repeat myself seeing as you didn't read my other posts, what I would like to see is:-

Arcanist > GRN > Enfeebling/time magic, astral and umbral spells. (cross class from THM,PUG)
Fencer > RDM > Enspells, Weaponskills that inflict elemental DoT's and Water spells. (cross class from both THM and CNJ)

Seeing as RDM is water they could get aquaviel which when used with sacred prism could be an AoE party buff, sacred prism + enspell AoE elemental weapon buffs.

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Jinko if rdm is gonna be hybrid meele _ mage they need to have one mage sub and one melee sub and CNJ/LNC could be the best depending on their skill set. The rest i agree with.

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Originally Posted by Raistlin

sure, a mage who need to melee to combo, and will be the class noone want to fight bosses

Aoe -> RDM died

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The answer is don't make RDM die to AoE's as easily.

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Originally Posted by Firon

Jinko if rdm is gonna be hybrid meele _ mage they need to have one mage sub and one melee sub and CNJ/LNC could be the best depending on their skill set. The rest i agree with.

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Thats true.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

LOL the irony.

It was RDM that took the role from WHM to begin with, WHM just took back what was theirs :P

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Yeah but neither were SCH. You can't compete with p.q levels of sophistication.

Only FFXI has red mages as enfeebler. Last I heard, the arcanist was going to be our mage enfeelber. Anyways, Red Mages are known, in all except FFXI, as melee versatile casters that use weak black and white mage. They get abilities that give them quicker casting and double casting to compensate for their weaker spells.

I pulled this description from here http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Red_Mage

Red Mages typically cast both Black and White Magic and can also wield swords and equip armor that normal Black and White Mages cannot. They are, in essence, among the more versatile characters of the series. However, their versatility comes at a high price: their stats are usually low, and they cannot cast higher level spells or use stronger equipment. They can learn many spells, but not the strongest, and equip some heavy armor, but not all of it. Thus, the Red Mage is a jack-of-all-trades, but a master of none. However, in certain games, Red Mages have a special ability such as Dualcast which boosts their spell casting efficiency.

I'm not saying the Red Mage shouldn't be an enfeebler mage/melee, I'm saying FF14 probably isn't going to copy FFXI.Our BLM and WHM copy more from FFIII than anything else; hence WHM having stone and wind magic. I would guess they are more likely to use that as a template over FFXI Red Mage.

EDIT:
FFXI is still going and people are still playing it. Probably wouldn't be in SE interests to copy an entire class/job from an MMO they still have going. Variety is probably a better direction between the two games.