Frustrating relative lack of LGBT NPCs in this game

don't we all wish someday raging stallion will get a reality check in life

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Originally Posted by Edax

There's barely any straight representation either in FFXIV. Do we have to shove more romance into this game so straight people can feel more represented and comfortable?

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I can live without forced representation of any gender choices in the game. if they want to include something, thats awesome, if they dont, I can live with that too. SE walks a pretty decent path in not overtly pointing out much in regards to any relationship. if people want forced unrequired relationships, watch Lord of the Rings.

the last thing I want, or need, in my entertainment, is some issue that another group of people can direct hate and disdain towards.

The OP was obviously bored and needed entertainment in the forums. I dare say a good few have provided that.

xd xd xd xd xd xd

Major characters shown definitely having or pursuing a heterosexual relationship:
- Thancred (the womanizer)
- Urianger (with Moenbryda)
- Alphinaud (major crush on Y'shtola)
- Runar (same)
- Chai-Nuzz and Dulia-Chai (married)
- Gaius (with Livia)
- Louisoix (presumably; had kids)
- Varis yae Galvus (same)
- Bahamut (with Tiamat)

I probably missed a few. But the point is, for most characters we just don't know whose pants they'd love to get into, if anyone's.
And that's the way it ought to be, IMO.

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Originally Posted by Juicymama

don't we all wish someday raging stallion will get a reality check in life

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Naw, I wish people would let his post die off. But that might be to much to ask for i fear

I feel there is a place for everything, but not everything has a place in everything. Some games may make that their focal point, fair enough. I don't think FF is one of those franchises though.........Never has been......Being openly straight at your workplace has gotten some guys in trouble when they merely compliment a woman. No place for that there. Save it for happy hour, or the club afterwards.

I am Black, but do not believe a Japanese organization should place more emphasis on Blacks. I understand there are cultural differences. I play because I like the game, not because "X" character is Black.

Especially with the story, because we all know.....Who will be the 1st to go........

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Originally Posted by Jennah

Major characters shown definitely having or pursuing a heterosexual relationship:
- Thancred (the womanizer)
- Urianger (with Moenbryda)
- Alphinaud (major crush on Y'shtola)
- Runar (same)
- Chai-Nuzz and Dulia-Chai (married)
- Gaius (with Livia)
- Louisoix (presumably; had kids)
- Varis yae Galvus (same)
- Bahamut (with Tiamat)

I probably missed a few. But the point is, for most characters we just don't know whose pants they'd love to get into, if anyone's.
And that's the way it ought to be, IMO.

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As far as I can tell, Urianger had no romantic relationship with Moenbryda, Alphinaud has no romantic relationship with Y'shtola, Runar may or may not be in a relationship. Livia has no romantic relationship with Gaius, she's also dead. I don't recall seeing Louisoix in a relationship, but I've only played AAR and I've not seen Varis in a relationship. Pursuing a heterosexual relationship is more than just "having a crush". Even pre-teens can have crushes, that doesn't mean anything.

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Originally Posted by He-Saiyan

I feel there is a place for everything, but not everything has a place in everything. Some games may make that their focal point, fair enough. I don't think FF is one of those franchises though.........Never has been......Being openly straight at your workplace has gotten some guys in trouble when they merely compliment a woman. No place for that there. Save it for happy hour, or the club afterwards.

I am Black, but do not believe a Japanese organization should place more emphasis on Blacks. I understand there are cultural differences. I play because I like the game, not because "X" character is Black.

Especially with the story, because we all know.....Who will be the 1st to go........

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I really liked your post, but I'm sorry for chuckling at that last part XD

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Originally Posted by Edax

As far as I can tell, Urianger had no romantic relationship with Moenbryda, Alphinaud has no romantic relationship with Y'shtola, Runar may or may not be in a relationship. Livia has no romantic relationship with Gaius, she's also dead. I don't recall seeing Louisoix in a relationship, but I've only played AAR and I've not seen Varis in a relationship. Pursuing a heterosexual relationship is more than just "having a crush". Even pre-teens can have crushes, that doesn't mean anything.

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The *point* is, that that's the entire list of important characters that we can be reasonably confident are heterosexual in the game. If some of them don't qualify, that just makes the point stronger.

Dude/ette. shut up. If you want a game like that then go play something else or create your own game.

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Originally Posted by Jennah

Major characters shown definitely having or pursuing a heterosexual relationship:
- Thancred (the womanizer)
- Urianger (with Moenbryda)
- Alphinaud (major crush on Y'shtola)
- Runar (same)
- Chai-Nuzz and Dulia-Chai (married)
- Gaius (with Livia)
- Louisoix (presumably; had kids)
- Varis yae Galvus (same)
- Bahamut (with Tiamat)

I probably missed a few. But the point is, for most characters we just don't know whose pants they'd love to get into, if anyone's.
And that's the way it ought to be, IMO.

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Originally Posted by Jennah

The *point* is, that that's the entire list of important characters that we can be reasonably confident are heterosexual in the game. If some of them don't qualify, that just makes the point stronger.

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That's pushing it. A crush is not a heterosexual relationship. Like I said, even a 9 year old can have a crush, that doesn't mean they're hetrosexual. Most people figure out their own sexuality after they start a relationship. And I agree that it's a good thing they don't shove pointless romances in your face for the sake of representation.

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Originally Posted by Juicymama

don't we all wish someday raging stallion will get a reality check in life

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Like the boy who cried wolf his antics will come back to bite him.

why does it matter? i'm pan and i don't feel put out by the lack of pan characters

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Originally Posted by Bsrking5

Naw, I wish people would let his post die off. But that might be to much to ask for i fear

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Honestly... Thought this thread would have died after providing evidence that they (OP of this trhead) just recycled this from an old Reddit post from 2017 and even using some of the OP's posts in that thread as responses to people here. That alone being enough for me to believe OP to be a troll and trying to start something.

That was on page 3-4. What happened while I slept?

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Originally Posted by Nestama

Honestly... Thought this thread would have died after providing evidence that they (OP of this trhead) just recycled this from an old Reddit post from 2017 and even using some of the OP's posts in that thread as responses to people here. That alone being enough for me to believe OP to be a troll and trying to start something.

That was on page 3-4. What happened while I slept?

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What always happens in a TitanMen thread. People took the topic and ran with it. Half the reason the guy is so annoying is that he purposefully picks topics he knows will be taken over for the sake of discussion and argument while he disappears back into the void.

People dissing titanmen but he sure is good a baiting the fish into replying and fighting each other.
He's a good troll imo.

That's the whole purpose of trolling, you just need to bait one person and then sit and watch things ignite. Everyone has thoughts they don't want to say/type, but by having someone else doing it, even if they're not genuine, encourages them to express their opinion too, because herd mentality is just human nature apparently.

That said, I'm gonna go have a read at the previous pages now

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/bc/45...8ba54da13e.gif

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Originally Posted by Enla

while he disappears back into the void.

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Like an Ascian.

Imagine an Ascian who trolls.

when did emet selch get here?

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Originally Posted by xxvaynxx

People dissing titanmen but he sure is good a baiting the fish into replying and fighting each other.
He's a good troll imo.

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A Troll lives under a bridge and waits for Billy goats to come bye. I personally question his behavior, the man has a FC with several level 1 alts not exactly typical troll behavior. The moment this thread dies off he will be back trying to poke the bear again.

None of the main NPCs have a sexuality at all. So???? I find this a weird request.

Also there's a gay couple fore the Wanderer's Palace quest.

What about the Bard quest NPCs. Or the Carpenter Guild master and his boyfriend. They were even paired together in the recent Hatching Tide event. Granted they were in suits but still.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

What about the Bard quest NPCs. Or the Carpenter Guild master and his boyfriend. They were even paired together in the recent Hatching Tide event. Granted they were in suits but still.

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Examples like those are what are known as queer coding where it's all subtext and with a good chance to not even be noticed by someone not LGBT. It's a bit of a controversial thing since it's not really proper representation and can very easily slip into the closely related and clearly negative queerbaiting. FFXIV is chock full of queer coding. You can see that just from the examples provided in this thread alone. Thankfully it doesn't yet have any queerbaiting, knock on wood.

The wikipedia article on queer coding doesn't really delve into the controversial aspect of queer coding much calling it "somewhat of a neutral trope" and pointing out then common 'queer villain' version of it which doesn't really describe the complexity of its historical use and impact particularly by queer creators themselves, but for anyone who wants to delve deeper into it there are some good papers and even some good youtube videos discussing it. Mass media articles on it are kind of surface level and often are actually talking about queerbaiting not queer coding, so I wouldn't bother with those if you want a true understanding of it.

I'd say it's up in the air as to whether such things exist in-game or not, especially when some players insist on treating even an innocent friendship as proof that two characters are intending to hook up with one another. Or, more bizarrely, they insist on 'shipping' characters that have no meaningful links to one another in the first place.

A lot of studies on the subject are also likely to be coloured by bias and written by those with a bit of a chip on their shoulder, as is often a risk when it comes to discussing 'representation' in general. It often excludes the viewpoints of those of us who are gay but aren't particularly interested in representation for the sake of representation.

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Originally Posted by Puremallace

The troll level is pretty impressive honestly. Kind of admire it.

On the subject we do not really know the backstories of multiple different "main characters" sex lives. Thancred is obviously straight and rest are a guess. I mean Shiva was into dragons so I guess that community is represented!?!?!?

OH OHHHH OHHHH Viera!! Literally an entire race of females isolated in the woods that reproduce somehow!! Aren\\'t Rothgar all males?!?!? There you go.

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Hrothgar have a queen and Viera men are mentioned explicitly. It's just that Hrothgar have very few women and Viera practice strict segregation of the sexes.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

Oh wow. This thread title is word for word the same as a Reddit title back in 2017 with some paragraphs literally taken from it.



Wow, even this was taken from that thread.

In agreement with Doozer as well.

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I want to sue him for his name. As a disable Veteran who served overseas in 08 and 09 his trolls make me mad. Like.. don't think bad of us please people T.T We are NOT like that.

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Originally Posted by MilitaryVet123

FF14 is a wonderful game. It's beautiful, the gameplay is fluid, the lore rich, and the graphics stunning, especially in the Azim Steppe.

Part of the reason why it's so wonderful is because it is possible to fully immerse yourself in this game. Characters all have a backstory, many NPCs are fleshed out, have their own personality, and you really feel like Eorzea is a place you can live in.

However, the lack of representation of LGBT characters in this game is frustrating for a billion-dollar video gaming company. While I applaud SE for allowing the Eternal Bonding to take place between two people of the same gender, there is not much else in this game that represents LGBT characters, other than a token gay couple in Upper La Noscea.

Some people will also bring up characters like Alphinaud (weird) or Haurchefant, and say they're "WOL-sexual". But you know that they're not actually designed as gay characters. They just happened to be perceived as LGBT because of the fandom.

Many other RPGs are already fully embracing the need to represent minorities in their game, because minority representation is an important issue that affects the psychological development of minority youth.

I hope to see Square Enix do more to represent LGBT characters in their game, because by doing so they'll let LGBT youth feel like they have a place in Eorzea and feel welcomed.

I know some people will think I'm joking, but I'm not. As a LGBT PoC myself, I am deeply invested in this issue.

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Are you on something that you are willing to share? Like who cares? As a gay man my self, you don't see me complaining "oh this aint GW2, wheres the lesbian couple". Christ.

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Originally Posted by Gameovers

I want to sue him for his name. As a disable Veteran who served overseas in 08 and 09 his trolls make me mad. Like.. don't think bad of us please people T.T We are NOT like that.

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Aside the whether its true or not. dw dude there are 2 groups of people, those that know not to generalise and those that are looking for something to hate in order to validate their miserable existence and you only have to care about one of those groups.

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Originally Posted by KayRadley

Hrothgar have a queen and Viera men are mentioned explicitly. It's just that Hrothgar have very few women and Viera practice strict segregation of the sexes.

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To be fair, that may indirectly imply Viera are generally ok with playing around with the same sex, much like Amazons. Either that or the females give the 'death by snu snu' treatment to the few males that visit during mating season.

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Originally Posted by Mhaeric

Examples like those are what are known as queer coding where it's all subtext and with a good chance to not even be noticed by someone not LGBT. It's a bit of a controversial thing since it's not really proper representation and can very easily slip into the closely related and clearly negative queerbaiting. FFXIV is chock full of queer coding. You can see that just from the examples provided in this thread alone. Thankfully it doesn't yet have any queerbaiting, knock on wood.

The wikipedia article on queer coding doesn't really delve into the controversial aspect of queer coding much calling it "somewhat of a neutral trope" and pointing out then common 'queer villain' version of it which doesn't really describe the complexity of its historical use and impact particularly by queer creators themselves, but for anyone who wants to delve deeper into it there are some good papers and even some good youtube videos discussing it. Mass media articles on it are kind of surface level and often are actually talking about queerbaiting not queer coding, so I wouldn't bother with those if you want a true understanding of it.

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If you ask me that's the kind of representation you want though. Because, while representation is nice, actively championing a "representative" makes it seem like an exception and not the norm. In cases like the ones I mentioned they are treating it like any other common relationship, not making it a grandiose spectical to appease the masses. I mean there is clearly a distinction between relationships such as Beatin and Gairhard, Sanson and Guydelot, Aymeric and Lucia, and Y'shtola and Runar, compared to ships like Cid and Nero, or Alphinaud and Estinien. If you ask me queer coding is the proper way to show representation. Cause why are all NPCs considered "straight" until proven otherwise. Why can't they be LGBT until proven otherwise?

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Originally Posted by Doozer

Yeah, they're known for starting troll threads to get people arguing. I think they're suspected of being the same person as past troll topic creators (RagingStallion, TitanMen, to name a few), but I'm not fully In The Know about the deep lore.

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That and the join date is 8/21 of this year. And soooo many topics made. Yeah .... shame can’t find the ignore function on mobile device

To be fair, romance and sexuality very (very) rarely come up in this game in general, so how are we to know the orientation of any of the characters?

I mean what canon couples are there, really?

Most characters don't overtly have an obvious sexual orientation. I can think of only a handful of couples we've met along our journey. If you're looking for stereotypes to "code" characters, then that can be wildly offensive and detrimental to the community.

Not to mention. What little representation SE offers in their titles is pretty groundbreaking for a Japanese game, as the LGBT community is not generally well received in the east.

But this is likely a troll thread

Have gotten an impression that unless the story explicitly revolves around a romantic relationship, then it is probably best to just keep thing ambiguous between the characters.

It reduces the risk of "Forced relationships", minimizes drama and lets the reader fill inn their own interpretation.

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Originally Posted by Averax

M... If you're looking for stereotypes to "code" characters, then that can be wildly offensive and detrimental to the community....

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Only the entertainment industry does this still to this day and Japanese video games are no exception. The only thing offensive about coded characters is that companies that do that, think that is fine for representation, and tend to only use coded gay characters as villains.

ryne has a goth hammer gf and that warms my cold dead heart

I just asked the NPC I vendored some stuff to if they are gay and they said yes.

TitanMen's wellspring of trolls ran dry it seems.
Your earlier ones were more funny, you've really lost your touch. :l

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Originally Posted by Jennah

- Bahamut (with Tiamat)

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FFXIV's Dragons are weird. They are Incestuous Genderfluid Hermaphrodites. Bahamut and Tiamat can not be considered a heterosexual relationship if you actually examine dragons in detail.

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

FFXIV's Dragons are weird. They are Incestuous Genderfluid Hermaphrodites. Bahamut and Tiamat can not be considered a heterosexual relationship if you actually examine dragons in detail.

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Based on that, that would mean all Dragons are LGBT representatives, which I approve of. There we go, representation was there all along, lol.