Shadowbringers starting to feel like a budget expansion

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Originally Posted by AnimaAnimus

/shrug

I mean if you are so petty

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So now people are petty right? Carry on but you're not winning anything with that attitude, Try expressing your opinion without trying to put others down.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

So now people are petty right? Carry on but you're not winning anything with that attitude,

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Point and case

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

Ishgard Restoration is just the same scrip system we've had for years but with a new coat of paint. 5.25 is just grind yellow scrips (again) and then hit your craft macro 50 times. I fail to see what is so revolution or engaging about this.

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Nothing, but let's be honest: no matter what they'll do, nothing will be seen as "revolutional" by the community. There always will be somebody who will say "eh it's just that but in other shape". That's how MMO games are in last.... 10 years or so for now.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I'm just hoping that the development team are secretly working on some big surprises behind the scenes and that is the reason why some things feel a tad rushed/incomplete. The lack of a direct rival MMO also doesn't help matters much, I suppose.

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I think it's known what they're working on behind the scenes, it's the redo of 2.0 content. There's also evidence to suggest they're redoing some of those zones to an extent to allow flight.

I could be wrong, but I think many people are upset with the lower amount of battle content. But this patch had a lot of new crafting and gathering content, and there are many people who never touch it so I can see where those people would be upset. I personally like both, so I'm pretty happy. I have tons to do and it's variety for me.

As others have mentioned too, they are reworking ARR quests. I can only imagine how much in resources that is taking to do, especially since we don't know exactly how they are reworking it. Pretty sure Yoshi-P also said in previous live letters that they are working on other new content for this expansion. Ocean fishing was one, reworked diadem was another, but it sounded like there was other coming too. And we don't know what they are going to release for the rest of relic.

Honestly they are in a damned if they do, damned if they don't situation. So many people complain that they want new things to do. "Be creative SE, do something new, so tired of the same ole, same ole" and then when they do that, if it's not the type of content those people like to do they complain "no, not THAT kind of content! where are all my dungeons???" I know this is a bit of a generalization, but I think my point stands.

Not all content is going to satisfy everyone. I happen to be one of those who like variety so I pretty much always have things to do. I know not everyone is like that. Some people only like very specific things, but SE is never going to satisfy everyone. They just can't. If you only like crafting and gathering at some point you are going to get bored. If you only like pvp - same thing. If you only like savage and ultimates, again, you will get bored.

Ultimately, you can offer feedback (or in some instances complain to complain), but SE is going to make the game they want to make. If there isn't the type of content you want to do this patch, play less and play some other games. That isn't meant in some snarky way either. I genuinely mean that. I really enjoy this game overall, but there have been times where I have felt a bit burned out or whatever and I've played a bit less and played other games instead. If you (general you) only play this game then yes, you will probably get burned out and not have as much fun.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

So now people are petty right? Carry on but you're not winning anything with that attitude, Try expressing your opinion without trying to put others down.

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Fixed my posts just for you

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Originally Posted by Arillyn

I could be wrong, but I think many people are upset with the lower amount of battle content. But this patch had a lot of new crafting and gathering content, and there are many people who never touch it so I can see where those people would be upset. I personally like both, so I'm pretty happy. I have tons to do and it's variety for me.

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A good number of people in my FC and friends circle are working on the crafting and gathering relics and they certainly seem to involve a lot more time and effort than the battle content. I may get around to doing the gather relics given crafting although I do it it's not really something I'm that good at.

The extreme trial is new as well and basically it appears to me it's to satisfy those who wanted more challenge to relic related content. Dunno if I'll personally try the AF gear given it's pretty much just being able to dye the equipment. I have tons of Anemos upgraded dyeable gear that I rarely us and recently added most of it to my glamour dresser to free up inventory. It's not like the Eureka based gear with Eureka only stats for progressing in content like BA. And that +2 gear sure did matter when it came to running that content. I have an alt on Balmung who just got her Whm Hydatos relic and I hope to do BA again with a friend.

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Originally Posted by Arillyn

I could be wrong, but I think many people are upset with the lower amount of battle content. But this patch had a lot of new crafting and gathering content, and there are many people who never touch it so I can see where those people would be upset. I personally like both, so I'm pretty happy. I have tons to do and it's variety for me.

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I'm in the camp that does both battle content and craft content. Problem with this patch is the craft content has absolutely zero staying power. I made one of the tools in about an hour or so, realized they aren't worth the time, and just dropped it. Besides, as I've said elsewhere in this thread, that "content" is 1) Grind yellow scrips for the thousandth time 2) Hit craft macro 50 times. Yawn.

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

I'm in the camp that does both battle content and craft content. Problem with this patch is the craft content has absolutely zero staying power. I made one of the tools in about an hour or so, realized they aren't worth the time, and just dropped it. Besides, as I've said elsewhere in this thread, that "content" is 1) Grind yellow scrips for the thousandth time 2) Hit craft macro 50 times. Yawn.

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I get what you are saying. The tools aren't worth it for stats - they aren't better than melded facet as they have no cp. I may or may not do them all (I will do one as I did start it). I haven't decided yet. I also don't macro craft but that's just me. The thing I did like was the expert crafts (not 5.25 I know). I would like more like that. By that same token though - are the relic battle weapons worth it? To me it doesn't seem so either, they aren't the best out there. But a lot of people love to do them. Again, different strokes for different folks.

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Originally Posted by Arillyn

By that same token though - are the relic battle weapons worth it? To me it doesn't seem so either, they aren't the best out there. But a lot of people love to do them. Again, different strokes for different folks.

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They tend to be on par with top weapon in last patch of the expantion. Sort of "easy, but time consuming BiS", depending on its combination of stats ofc. Also glamour material. DoH/DoL can be the same I guess, but we'll see.

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

I'm in the camp that does both battle content and craft content. Problem with this patch is the craft content has absolutely zero staying power. I made one of the tools in about an hour or so, realized they aren't worth the time, and just dropped it. Besides, as I've said elsewhere in this thread, that "content" is 1) Grind yellow scrips for the thousandth time 2) Hit craft macro 50 times. Yawn.

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Taken from: Live Letter Part LVII Digest

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This will be only the first stage, so it won’t be as powerful as melding the latest tools. However, the upgrades will continue in later patches, and it’ll become quite powerful by the final stage, so we hope you’ll give it a try!

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So, while the tools currently aren't as powerful as pentamelded facet gear, there's a chance that they'll be better down the line.

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Originally Posted by Halivel

They tend to be on par with top weapon in last patch of the expantion. Sort of "easy, but time consuming BiS", depending on its combination of stats ofc. Also glamour material. DoH/DoL can be the same I guess, but we'll see.

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Which is nice for options. I see the skysteel crafting and gathering tools the same way. It's an option for people, and I think it's good to have various options. Who knows? Maybe I'll actually finish a battle relic for once!

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Originally Posted by Halivel

They tend to be on par with top weapon in last patch of the expantion. Sort of "easy, but time consuming BiS", depending on its combination of stats ofc. Also glamour material. DoH/DoL can be the same I guess, but we'll see.

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They're roughly equivalent (if not slightly superior due to customizable substats) to whatever the final raid drop weapon of the expansion is, you just receive it later. I'd even say the time consuming bit is a bit of a misnomer because you'll probably spend similar amounts of time progressing through the fights of a raid tier as you'd have to spend grinding out the individual stages of a relic, with the relic taking a little bit longer.

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Originally Posted by Moonsprite

You are making assumptions about how people will react without giving them a chance to make a choice. People like different things and that’s ok. This thread is specifically addressing the fact some people feel they aren’t getting their usual amounts of content. I am not saying the developers need to be transparent like WoW. I never even said keeping the secrets of what is to come is bad. I even gave examples of content they are working on and what we have received. You chose to pick the only things in my post that could be taken negatively and focused on that. How is that being positive or constructive?

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New information is released, people speculate as they are want to do. But there's a vocal flood of "it's trash its trash its trash" which, even from a vocal minority, can harm company image and it's not in good practice to pander to those 200 out of 2 million.

And when players don't give the developers a chance to try out a new idea, content will stagnate because no one knows if it will actually work or not and it can't be integrated into better content for the future. Let the content come out, try it. If it's literally unplayable on release then everyone knows what went wrong. And overly negative speculation discourages any form of learning or evolution. Crawl before walking, no multi-million dollar company is exempt from this. Tripping is natural. See even apple and microsoft.

Some preemptive complaints hit their mark, others far from it. But if none of it was released from negativity ahead of time, people would still be complaining about a lack of [insert thing here] and it will never come to fruition the way they want it to.

On the case of little to no content, consider the following.

1. What kind of content is planned to be added.
2. What kind of releases Square Enix as a whole has planned.
3. What could possibly be going on internally to delay something.

And for 2, think back on E3 2019 and how Yoshi P acknowledged FF7 Remake's release. To which was supposed to be out by now but was delayed.

It is not a proven fact but I wholly believe this was a patch meant to consider FF7's sales and how many players would not be on. Like how there aren't any PVP releases on an expansion launch, because no one is playing PVP. This would be for the few still online. And I clearly remember Monster Hunter World's release and how multiple worlds had their active population decimated.

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

Ishgard Restoration is just the same scrip system we've had for years but with a new coat of paint. 5.25 is just grind yellow scrips (again) and then hit your craft macro 50 times. I fail to see what is so revolution or engaging about this.

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Fresh coat of paint? Diadem was reworked and you're literally rebuilding part of a city with the restoration. What else are you expecting? You can't strip away content down to it's basic functions (from anything that makes it unique), then complain about it

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Originally Posted by REPROBEAN_CHILD

Fresh coat of paint? Diadem was reworked and you're literally rebuilding part of a city with the restoration. What else are you expecting? You can't strip away content down to it's basic functions (from anything that makes it unique), then complain about it

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Reworked?
That is the same place except now it's only for gatherers.

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DOH/L tools are dead on arrival because they don't give CP

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I'd use the Gatherer MH's in a heartbeat if they had 40-50 less gathering and 40-50 more perception.

The crafting ones can be worth using if you dont NEED the 6cp, but yeah, non-meldable crafter weapons with no CP is questionable.

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The producer/director himself has said on more than one occasion that he encourages players to take breaks. Imagine this. You take a break for 3 months. VOILA! You come back to more content!

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You actually -cant- take breaks for that long if you have an FC or house, because those will be gone by the time you come back.

Its a game that says "you should take breaks" and then reminds you that you absolutely cannot unsub for that long, even if theres not content.

Also, if you tell players not to play your game when you're an MMO producer, it says more about your lack of knowledge of the genre than anything.

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Savage fights designed by B-team

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I keep thinking we can go a full content tier without a "DONT FALL OFF THE PLATFORM LOLOL" fight. And I keep being disappointed.

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You do realize FFXIV is the only MMO that charges a rental service for additional inventory and has been notorious for not providing nearly enough given the sheer amount of glamour and crafting materials released? Not that I want to defend Bethesda and EA because they have garbage practices but lets not go pretending Square Enix hasn't dipped their toe in money grabbing tendencies either. They've simply avoided the more controversial ones, i.e. lootboxes.

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This. Every game company is coming up with new ways to exploit the skinner box. GGG and Squeenix make it impossible to do content for too long with available inventory space. The big 3 (and the FAR more predatory mobile developers) have made governments go "we should probably ban lootboxes, huh?".

You cant just pay for a game and get everything you need inside it these days, theres always non-optional "optional microtransactions" to be had.

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Diadem was reworked

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Diadem had its node contents swapped out (so instead of being able to get decent amounts of timed and script mats, all of which are still being used in FC crafting, you get mats that are used for one step of the ishgard restoration instead). Thats about as much of a rework as if you went to N Than and could now mine Grade 5 Shouldershruggers Cobalt dust and Grade 5 Shouldershruggers basilisk brains (which can be turned in 10 for 1 herpyderp point, which can be exchanged at a 10,000 to 1 ratio for HIMOM scrips, which can be used to buy an in-game tshirt) and couldnt do fates or kill anything.

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2 - People should really go play others MMOs and see if they get the same treatment as FFXIV.

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I'd wager 14 is not the first MMO most of us played, nor is it the only MMO a good number of us play.

Other companies arent immune to nonsense by any means.

Daybreak "forgot to adjust their automatic settings for daylight savings time" back in March and it broke anything that used a timer for either a full day, full week, or (and we hope its actually fixed!) a full month.

But they will release as much content in their expansion purchase (once a year) as 14 will drip-feed over 2 years.


If you just want to raid and do group content in MMO's, you basically have to play multiple games.

I raid more in Everquest than I do in 14, because a 21 year old game has a better (as in, I have found ONE group there that raids on that time, vs the 0 in 14 since shadowbringers started) raid scene for what is essentially Hawaiian time than 14 does.

I see very good arguments in this thread.

But I see two things that some people are missing:

1 - This is patch X.2 we usually go until X.55 getting content, I think we should wait until there to make a statement about this expansion
2 - People should really go play others MMOs and see if they get the same treatment as FFXIV. Really, go there, play a lot and come back and tell me. If you find, please let me know, truly.

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Originally Posted by REPROBEAN_CHILD

Fresh coat of paint? Diadem was reworked and you're literally rebuilding part of a city with the restoration. What else are you expecting? You can't strip away content down to it's basic functions (from anything that makes it unique), then complain about it

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About that.

Giuseppe: The Ishgard restoration is certainly a new way to approach content for gatherers and crafters. Is it a concept you’d like to keep exploring even after Ishgard is completely restored? There are quite a few places in Eorzea and beyond that could use a fresh coat of paint. Also, can you finally confirm that (as the map pretty clearly hints to), the restored area will be the promised Ishgard housing ward?

Naoki Yoshida: We are still in the middle of the restoration of Ishgard, so I’d like to close this chapter and do everything we had set out to do, and then think about what comes next. We have made plans to a certain extent, but we have also received plenty of feedback, so I will have to thoroughly discuss this with the development team as we continue our planning. I would also recommend tuning in to upcoming live streams!

From: https://twinfinite.net/2020/04/final...medium=twitter

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Originally Posted by grinkdaboy

from how little content we've gotten this expansion compared to previous ones is making me wonder why xiv is so underfunded. so let's have a quick review shall we

Au Ra could wear headgear at launch
Au Ra could wear all hairstyles at launch
Au Ra had both genders
SAM and RDM still got level 60 primal and tome weapons despite being outdated content, and everything from level 50.
They got: Bismarck, Ravana, Thordan, Sephirot, Sophia, Nidhogg, Zurvan, All tome weapons (Hellfire and Shire), All three Alexander raid tiers. On top of all the base primals like Shiva and Ifrit, etc.
SAM and RDM both had PVP weapon models right away.
SAM and RDM continued to have new models added through 60+ content
Stormblood had new PVP content and glamours shipped out the gate.
Stormblood launched with a complete PVP overhaul (not a good thing though)
3 dungeons per patch in HW
2 dungeons per patch in SB
Relics that took longer than an hour to get
Savages had unique and innovative mechanics
2 Ultimates
Deep dungeons

but in Shadowbringers...
Viera cannot wear most headgear
Viera cannot use all hairstyles
Viera are gender locked
Hrothgar cannot wear most headgear
Hrothgar have 4 hairstyles and cannot change that at the aesthetician
Hrothgar are gender locked
GNB and DNC have had two starting weapon models made for them (Shire and the steel one you start with)
GNB and DNC got nothing else in the level 60 range.
GNB and DNC got none of the level 70 weapons beyond Scaevan, Ryumakyu and Omega, not a single primal at launch.
No: Susano, Shinryu, Byakko, Tsukuyomi, Suzaku, Seiryu, UCoB or UWU, A SINGLE omega raid tier, and only 2 tome weapons. Not even the basic primal weapons from ARR that everybody has at launch.
GNB and DNC have about 20 total unique weapon models, the rest being reskins. Yes even the new ultimate alex weapons are just reskinned Shire and Forgiven weapons.
Shadowbringers PVP glams almost didn't happen but yoshida needed somewhere to put the contest design winner from Stormblood.
1 dungeon per patch
No crafted SB primal weapons at launch
1 ultimate
No deep dungeon
Savage fights designed by B-team

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This feels like WoD. Great launch, very bad follow-up with lots of cut content, and to be honest, there wasn't much good content other than story and what was at launch. Even things like races glamour and moutns were the worst we have yet seen in an expansion. A shame that they released a great expansion but shot themselves in the foot with all of this patches. Can only hope this means that the next expac is bringing many surprises and fan requested features, like for instance (not necessarily this, or only this) Mythic +-esque systems, removal of genderlocks for races and gear, improval of the current races (specially female viera and male hrotgar) better glamour, hard 4 man content, egi glamour etc. We will see

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Originally Posted by Lily_Skye

same

cant wait for wow shadowlands ;-;

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Shadowlands, from the looks of it, is everything WoW players have been asking for (we will have tosee how it ends up becoming) But I feel like we are looking at a great revival for the game. Yoshi-P and his team really need to improve on the next expansion and give us some incentives to play it, or else I feel like a lot of players, like WoW refugees or just players in general will move on to shadowlands if its good

At this point, I just hope the next expansion they actually give healers something to do other than spam broil/glare. I doubt it, square can't seem to balance something if it has more than 2 buttons, but since I don't play the game for the story, they is genuinely the only way they could make me want to oldy the next expac.

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Originally Posted by Billythepancake

At this point, I just hope the next expansion they actually give healers something to do other than spam broil/glare. I doubt it, square can't seem to balance something if it has more than 2 buttons, but since I don't oldy the game for the story, they is genuinely the only way they could make me want to oldy the next expac.

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I say this many, many times. It's not Square, it's the battle team. Square, the company, is not the one making your game. They are making it work, but the employees names, faces and exact jobs are more than readily available information.

It would be like complaining about a song you dont like and saying Square did it. When no, it's Soken, Uematsu, Shimomura ect.

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Originally Posted by Gula

I say this many, many times. It's not Square, it's the battle team. Square, the company, is not the one making your game. They are making it work, but the employees names, faces and exact jobs are more than readily available information.

It would be like complaining about a song you dont like and saying Square did it. When no, it's Soken, Uematsu, Shimomura ect.

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Either way, it's squares name on the game, and I will give them the credit for it, positive and negative.

Budget expansion? We're at the 5.25 patch people. The dev team fell behind on projects due to having to get out Hrothgar and Viera (they themselves admitted it was down to the wire), bad enough to where they had to cut down to one new dungeon per update. They're probably STILL using this time to play catch-up.

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Originally Posted by zeylos

Shadowlands, from the looks of it, is everything WoW players have been asking for (we will have tosee how it ends up becoming) But I feel like we are looking at a great revival for the game.

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I will never go near another Blizzard game, unless I saw only 10/10 reviews several months in. Not sure how many years I spent there going "next expansion will change", "they've learned this time", "this expansion was bad because they were putting everything into the next one" along with the rest of their playerbase, but after 10-20 disappointments you learn it's not changing. Blizzard is the first company to permanently lose me as a customer, no second (well, twentieth) chances.

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Originally Posted by grinkdaboy

from how little content we've gotten this expansion compared to previous ones is making me wonder why xiv is so underfunded. so let's have a quick review shall we

Au Ra could wear headgear at launch
Au Ra could wear all hairstyles at launch
Au Ra had both genders
SAM and RDM still got level 60 primal and tome weapons despite being outdated content, and everything from level 50.
They got: Bismarck, Ravana, Thordan, Sephirot, Sophia, Nidhogg, Zurvan, All tome weapons (Hellfire and Shire), All three Alexander raid tiers. On top of all the base primals like Shiva and Ifrit, etc.
SAM and RDM both had PVP weapon models right away.
SAM and RDM continued to have new models added through 60+ content
Stormblood had new PVP content and glamours shipped out the gate.
Stormblood launched with a complete PVP overhaul (not a good thing though)
3 dungeons per patch in HW
2 dungeons per patch in SB
Relics that took longer than an hour to get
Savages had unique and innovative mechanics
2 Ultimates
Deep dungeons

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Did that all coming from 2 major patches?
Not only that, you are using HW + SB to compare with Shadowbringers?
10+ patches vs 2.5 patches, sure, that sounds fair

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Originally Posted by zeylos

Shadowlands, from the looks of it, is everything WoW players have been asking for (we will have tosee how it ends up becoming) But I feel like we are looking at a great revival for the game. Yoshi-P and his team really need to improve on the next expansion and give us some incentives to play it, or else I feel like a lot of players, like WoW refugees or just players in general will move on to shadowlands if its good

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Go back already.
WoW refugees honestly overstay for their welcomes.
Shadowland will just be like every other WoW expansion, strong starts and garbage at end.
Have fun with a mmorpg that is not playble with out addons

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Originally Posted by zeylos

Shadowlands, from the looks of it, is everything WoW players have been asking for (we will have tosee how it ends up becoming) But I feel like we are looking at a great revival for the game. Yoshi-P and his team really need to improve on the next expansion and give us some incentives to play it, or else I feel like a lot of players, like WoW refugees or just players in general will move on to shadowlands if its good

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I have no interest in wow. Besides, I thought everyone hated blizzard now? Or don't they anymore cuz games. Can never tell with the internet mobs.

I wont lie, I skimmed this thread and mostly understood that its not so much the lack of content, but rather It's more how quickly, we, as players consume the content thats available.
I wont say that having things like hairstyles isnt warranted valid concerns, heck I want it too! But its more that we as players need to tone down our expectations. We cant just gripe and instantly expect it delivered tomorrow. We can however ask when, and keep asking when until an answer is given. But we have to understand that things like creating all new races, monsters, zones, etc take time, money, and people to create. It's entirely possible that the devs want to bring the things we're clamoring for as soon as they can, but there are priorities and other things they have to consider that We as players dont think about. (They are also likely working behind the scenes on the next major expansion.)

Basically what Im saying is calm down a tad. By all means keep asking "when will we potentially see xyz content" until Square can provide an answer. Just also keep in mind that devs are people too, and they can only create and plan so quickly.
Let's all just keep calm and stop picking on the perceived 'refugees' from other games and the poor developers who are more often than not overworked as is in the gaming industry.

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

Have fun with a mmorpg that is not playble with out addons

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You act Like FF14 doesn't have 3rd party addons or tools that actually add a good bit of QoL...

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

Go back already.
WoW refugees honestly overstay for their welcomes.
Shadowland will just be like every other WoW expansion, strong starts and garbage at end.
Have fun with a mmorpg that is not playble with out addons

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I aint a wow refugee xD I play wow veeery casualyl from time to time and Im sayign this because im informed on everything thats coming at it looks very promissing. This community is so full of white knights and toxic ppl, like chill lol. Plus, regardless, wow does even nwo and will always have more subs than ffxiv at its peak so idk why yall trying to compete against it. FFXIV is way more niche and its only as popular as it is because it has final fantasy on it, let's be real shrug*

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Originally Posted by zeylos

I aint a wow refugee xD I play wow veeery casualyl from time to time and Im sayign this because im informed on everything thats coming at it looks very promissing. This community is so full of white knights and toxic ppl, like chill lol.*

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You are making it sounds like WoW was not a toxic community that rotten to the core.
You definitely didn’t know WoW well enough. The statement still legit, every WoW expansion after TBC all starts strong and end up as turd at end. All expansions looks promising at alpha and better because people are using template character. The OP jump the gun by using 10+ patches worst on contents to compare Shadowbringer that is still progress to 2.5

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Originally Posted by splinter1545

You act Like FF14 doesn't have 3rd party addons or tools that actually add a good bit of QoL...

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That are definitely shady one will use 3rd party tools but game itself is function-able without add on. Not just Ff14, most of MMOs are functionable without addon. Do you know how many WoW raid encounters are not playable without DBM?

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

You are making it sounds like WoW was not a toxic community that rotten to the core.
You definitely didn’t know WoW well enough. The statement still legit, every WoW expansion after TBC all starts strong and end up as turd at end. All expansions looks promising at alpha and better because people are using template character. The OP jump the gun by using 10+ patches worst on contents to compare Shadowbringer that is still progress to 2.5

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FF14 community and WoW community is the same but at least the WoW community acknolegde it and don't pretend to be awesome and friendly.

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

You are making it sounds like WoW was not a toxic community that rotten to the core.

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It isn't. There's plenty of wonderful people who play WoW. Just as there's plenty of wonderful people who play FFXIV.

Neither is without their rotten apples.

We also got 3 classes in HW, one of each class type. Then it became 2.5(or 3) for SB (2DPS + BLU) and then another 2 for SHB (1tank/1DPS--a DPS which was originally a healer in FFXI so could've easily been a healer).
Fully agree with the OP. Thanks for the lowdown.

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Originally Posted by MOZZYSTAR

We also got 3 classes in HW, one of each class type. Then it became 2.5(or 3) for SB (2DPS + BLU) and then another 2 for SHB (1tank/1DPS--a DPS which was originally a healer in FFXI so could've easily been a healer).
Fully agree with the OP. Thanks for the lowdown.

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But people keep telling us new classes aren't content.

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

You are making it sounds like WoW was not a toxic community that rotten to the core.

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Meanwhile, a sample from the FF14 Community...

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

Go back already.
WoW refugees honestly overstay for their welcomes.

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Inclusive and welcoming, yes?

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Originally Posted by Tlamila

You completely failed to mention the whole DoH/DoL content we got, but sure if something is not of your taste it's not content, right?

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Did this becoming a farming/crafting simulator like Harvest Moon or Stardew Valley? In my opinion, regular content shouldn't be sacrificed for additional content like crafting and gathering. It's great that they added it, but it should not come at the sacrifice of everything else.