No one knows the numbers for anything but SE. Up until they changed the sounds, however, I don't recall seeing anyone complaining about them on the forums or in game, and I'm logged into both a lot. So while the forums are not the majority, they can give a bit of a clue as to what a portion of the player base is feeling. The GNB sound change was implemented out of nowhere, plain and simple. And while I don't mind the changes, mainly because I have my dream job, even I can see how pointless it was to change the sounds. It was kind of like when they decided the main menu screen had to be louder. Just...what?Quote:
Originally Posted by Halivel
So, they fix 2B's tights due to community feedback...
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12-30-2019, 01:59 AMVahlnir
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12-30-2019, 02:02 AMTheMightyMolluskSorry, the higher-ups at SE can't hear you over the funneling of our subscription fees into the FF7 remake and other projects.Quote:
Originally Posted by RoseBnargin
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12-30-2019, 02:10 AMHalivelThe only thing it does say that some layer of playerbase is pissed by the change itself tbh, not that recent sounds are bad. How many of us would even notice it if not for specific line in patch note that stated the change? There were players in other threads (or even this one) who was like "er, what's wrong with them? Sound ok for me" because that's how they always heard them (because either didn't witness 1st version or just didn't pay attention to how it sounded before). And then there also players that are always "previous version was better return it" about everything - you can witness it with every new FF game release and with almost every new expansions in various MMO games actually. What says that it's not the case with GNB?Quote:
Originally Posted by Vahlnir
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12-30-2019, 04:25 AMBanriikku
Funny...
The Comm complains about a Soundbug and SE ignors that for months - after Yoshida experiened it at a Livestream and the Livestreamchat yells at him the bug vanishes and is solved.
The Comm praises the 2b outfit and SE simple reverts that change. Only after every Forum yells at SE and a ruckus in the Livestreams - SE changes it back.
The Forum brings up usefull Stuff and SE ignors it as a whole.
In the Forums otter pictures are posted getting deleted and ppl banned for it.
SE changes AST from "fishing for Balance" to "Fishing for Seals" and says: "Look, how different it is now". Many ppl comlain and say that this is close to no change at all and AST lost a lot of identy.
The Comm ask what about Viery and Hrothgar related Stuff (different haistyles, headgear)?
What about GNB and DNC weapon/armor glamour (old primalweapons and such)?
What is with the old primal weapons?
COMPLETE IGNORANCE FROM SE.
The absolut best part is BLM does so much dmg, dnc plays so easy and whm does both dmg and easy-fluid gameplay but all other classes getting nerfs and their identy butchered.
PPl ask for what is the future of FF14. What are the plans.
No clear answer. I do not expect them to explain their work or every detail but atleast a direction would be nice.
And then they announce less Dungeons but they want to make things and stuff better.
PPl ask: What exactly ?
SE: Stuff and things, stop asking. Its done when its done. Remember Yoshida-San is in charge so we do it all right and you have to love it because of Yshida-San.
As a example for the absolut weird stance of SE: the last QA was very weird because all questions related to classes were ignored or just with "we look in to it" parried. Also the questions raised by crafters related to Ishgard and the exploit of it and the questions about the trivialization of Content/Jobs as whole were not adressed at all.
Oh and the high praised Crafter/Gatherer changes are UI changes (really good in my opinion) and a ridiculous amounts of exp boost for those jobs so i am in less then a week from zero to hero.
So now we are getting more Crafter and Gatherer Stuff ... i am not sure if i am really happy about this because the last changes for those jobs and Ishgard were not that great (i am very polite at this point because after the announcement i thought some serious changes would come to the crafters but the actual changes were just making the crafting a short-lived joke and the UI changes are the only really good ones in my opinion.)
SE will ignor the Forums and such until something really big comes up or someone posts a otter.
Thats my salt on this matter. Sorry for my bad english. -
12-30-2019, 04:40 AMMaeka
2B's tights are not a gameplay balance issue.
When people say "I WANT AST CARDS CHANGED!!!!!!!"
The team has to get together and go "So, how can we change AST cards but yet NOT upset game balance?"
With 2B's tights, it's an aesthetic change and will not impact gameplay balance, other than making more people want to go out and get them.
But with a whole card rework, that's... a bit trickier to do. It takes more math, calculations, playtesting. What can they do that doesn't make AST too OP or UP? That takes time to do.
That, and coming from years of experience of WoW and also FFXIV, it seems like major reworks to adventuring classes are not done in mid-expansion unless it is absolutely necessary. They would rather make small tweaks to keep classes playable/fun, and save reworks for major expansions.
They likely will re-do AST cards.. in the next expansion.
Doing a whole re-work in the middle of an expansion is a disaster waiting to happen. You'd have AST progression raiders upset that they have to re-learn their class in the middle of an expansion while SCHs and WHMs can just keep trucking along. It would put them at a very unfair advantage for a bit of time, especially if this coincided with a new raid tier.
It's just not good form, and not something we really want them to do.
EDIT: In response to the poster above me: Yoshi-P himself does not read the forums. He has a team of people to skim through the stuff and relay stuff to him. Things can get lost in translation, things can be glossed over, etc. But when something is dropped right in front of the Boss himself at a Fan Festival, Livestream, Dev Letter, what-not, then the Boss Himself takes notice of it and goes "hmm, yeah, okay. Do this." and they snap to, because the boss himself said to. So yeah, obviously something that is presented straight to Yoshi-P is going to get the fastest response. Obviously.
The man doesn't have time to sit here and converse with each of the thousands of people who have issues with various things in the game, and he might not even agree with the issues you raise anyways. Maybe he thinks AST cards are fine. *shrug* Personally, I don't mind AST cards myself. I'm fine with the mechanic. In fact, I like them more than I did the Stormblood iteration. -
12-30-2019, 04:45 AMValkyrie_Lenneth
SE stopped giving detailed plans cuz if anything changed, the community would go "no, you said THIS! How dare you change plans!"
We used to see a lot more of dev ideas for things, they'd show off what was in testing and give ideas on how future content would function. -
12-30-2019, 04:52 AMMaeka^^^^Quote:
Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth
Another very valid point.
I've seen this over at Blizzard too, back when I used to play WoW.
You simply cannot give detailed plans, especially NOT release dates unless you were 200% sure that you would meet each and every thing you said would happen.
You just don't do it. You don't tell the public any more than you absolutely must for exactly this reason. And you know what? The playerbase only has themselves as a whole to blame for being toxic and causing developers to not give more detailed info as to what they are planning.
It is why I have always been outspoken against such toxic behavior in the past, but people just wanna rant and rage all over the place, despite any voices of reason asking them to calm down. -
12-30-2019, 04:53 AMTheodricEh, I don't think that's the case. I think they stopped giving detail because they're increasingly disconnected from the community due to the game getting much bigger over time. This place is practically ignored these days in favour of Twitter/Facebook by the community representatives. Who, I note, don't even weigh in on legitimate issues that are in need of clarification such as the lack of a promotion for the Black Fat Chocobo in the EU region.Quote:
Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth
We see them show up to introduce themselves and then...never post here again. -
12-30-2019, 04:54 AMLambdafishYou have no idea how businesses work. Of course XIV funds FF7 remake, in the same way that FF7 remake funds XIV. SE has a central pool of funds that is made up of many different projects and that is distributed between divisions. Just because XIV requires a large amount of overhead that it maybe isn't getting, that doesn't mean that FF7 remake (a far more mass-market game I should mention) is stealing from it.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk
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12-30-2019, 05:01 AMMaekaI would imagine that different projects are worked on by different teams and each project is allotted an X amount of funds and time to complete the project. FFXIV has its own budget, and FF7 remake has its own, and the plethora of other things that SE might have going on at any given time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lambdafish
Whenever you start a project, you go "OK, I'm going to assign them, them, and those people over there to it, and you get (insert money here) budget for it. Go." and that's it. Sometimes things go over budget, but eh. I would imagine the company has funds for general purpose for that reason along with other things like supplies, equipment, taxes, and other expenses. -
12-30-2019, 05:06 AMZanarkand-RonsoThats an easy rationalization for the Players...but Id like to think there is a better reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by Theodric
I think Valkyrie_Lenneth above has a pretty good theory as suppose to "They are Disconnected" Like, I can believe it because Ive said before that if they talked about stuff coming (Or if they were doing Male Viera) and if they cant deliver for any reason good or bad, it will cause more issues then simply not saying anything about it. At least until they have something to show for it. -
12-30-2019, 05:19 AMMaekaEh, trust me, from the years I spent on Blizzard's forums, I can very much tell you that devs avoid toxic playerbases.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso
For years, Ghostcrawler used to frequent the boards, and then Lore after him, to actively engage with players. Then after a few controversial decisions that ignited the forums in flames, players started getting very toxic with both of these people and their activity dropped like a rock, as they posted less and less and now Ghostcrawler is no longer with Blizzard, and Lore all but disappeared, and they did not get anybody to replace him, other than someone who posts every once in a blue moon about something. And anytime they do, they are instantly mobbed by 5000+ posts asking them this that and everything, even off-topic crap that eventually gets deleted by moderators. -
12-30-2019, 05:35 AMTheodric
Which is precisely why they should only ever respond to constructive feedback, of which there is plenty to be found throughout these very forums. If the concern was avoiding 'toxic feedback' then they simply wouldn't engage using Facebook or Twitter. Both of which are places with next to no moderation and far more hostile responses than anything posted on this forum.
There's a certain blog on Twitter devoted to quoting people from this very forum, for instance, only for the replies to the quotes being far more hostile and scary than anything being quoted. I've seen and experienced death threats posted there for stating a dislike of Alisae among other inconsequential things being blown out of proportion. I think a lot of people paint this forum as being unfairly hostile when it isn't nearly anywhere as bad as Reddit, Twitter and Facebook.
So, as I see it - the 'they avoid this forum because it's toxic' argument doesn't really hold up when the community representatives post and engage where there is far less moderation and much more hostility. -
12-30-2019, 05:42 AMLauront
Twitter, tumblr etc are what replaced the madhouse.
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12-30-2019, 06:03 AMAlleoAt least on the german forum there was one mod that even posted a joke to a thread (and some concerns about a twitch stream was answered too) but yes otherwise they are sadly not active. They dont even really have to say much, just more than they are doing right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Theodric
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12-30-2019, 06:15 AMRoseBnarginCan i get my booty & boob slider already though?Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk
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12-30-2019, 06:43 AMSaix027Let me look at some players and say they are pretty with some glam people come up? Pig heads? Frog masks? Some may say its just fun and glam, but so is fashion overall in a game, so that excuse is long gone by now and not shows for the game how it is today.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnimaAnimus
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12-30-2019, 10:18 AMAvidriaIf that's the reason then it's as absurd as it is horribly boring. Preventing ugly characters? Especially with as ugly as some of the armor in this game is?Quote:
Originally Posted by AnimaAnimus
Good Lord, what I wouldn't give to not need to jump through hoops to make a fem Miqo or Au Ra who looks *mature* let alone ugly. So many of the combinations you can get to are so pretty and soft and round and girlish (I'm not even sure how else to put it) that it's actually kind of irritating. Viera are the closest I've been able to get to something that matches what I want, but they're so limited I couldn't bring myself to keep playing one.
I never thought of this games customization as being extremely limited, considering I came to it after playing WoW for nearly a decade, but after some of the other games I've played that's really starting to change. Some of the limitations just flat don't make sense, and it's really a shame that we seem to be stuck with what we've got. -
12-30-2019, 10:26 AMTheodric
If they wanted to avoid ugly characters then they wouldn't have deliberately gone out of their way to prevent Highlander men from having eyebrows. The lore excuse doesn't hold up for them since not every Highlander is even from Ala Mhigo or necessarily cares for the place to begin with.
Character customisation being expanded is pretty much my main desire for the game moving forward. A lot of the models are looking pretty dated now and the newer ones are...well, limited. -
12-30-2019, 11:05 AMSturmChurroYeah no they don't avoid making ugly characters. I feel like they go out of their way to make ugly characters. Have you seen some of the faces we have to work with?Quote:
Originally Posted by Theodric
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12-30-2019, 10:21 PMAlleoYeah sadly. The only way my character looks even a bit more adult is thanks to giving her the more pissed of looking face. (Thankfully it also had the horns that I liked too..) They could give us ways to make our character more "ugly" by increasing the amount of scars one can choose. They would still look pretty in the way their bodies are built but at least one could see that this is an adventurer that has been through a lot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Avidria
Heck "ugly" is something quite subjective too. I for example find it quite ugly to use a huge amount of make-up on the character because it often tends to look more clown like. Or one of the male Au Ra faces..I find it ugly, while another might see it as beautiful. -
12-30-2019, 10:36 PMTheodric
Well, more scars and tattoos have been common requests for years - along with additional facial hair options for male characters. Adding them shouldn't be too hard - a solid compromise exists in the form of just making them be glamour items that show up on the model when projected onto a specific item. They've already shown that they're able to alter the character models themselves with 2B's outfit and before that...Minfilia's outfit.
It's just odd in general to see how some things in this game have been designed. There's no visible nipples for male characters when they're shirtless, for instance - though Jecht in FFX, Snow in FFXIII and Gladio in FFXV do not suffer from that problem so it's definitely something isolated to FFXIV. -
12-30-2019, 10:46 PMLaurontAlthough I agree with a lot of your points, I think this one by itself is a bit misleading. Damage is all BLM brings to the table. Even so, but a cursory view of dps rankings will show SMN and SAM both pull ahead - you can see similar with Hades, where those three are again neck to neck. BLM can parse higher than SMN, assuming you're very good at it, but it should not be unexpected for it to be amongst the highest parsing jobs. The anomaly in that trio is not BLM or SAM. ;) They've also done a pretty good job reworking NIN and SMN, IMO, and DRG and SAM saw nothing but improvements this expansion. The poor treatment they gave AST, and RDM's flagging performance are the only real issues I have with the job balance, atm.Quote:
Originally Posted by Banriikku
Their design ambitions leave much to be desired, to be honest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Theodric
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12-31-2019, 12:54 AMBanriikkuMy wording was poor, sorry for that but my point was and is not the damage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lauront
Its the fluid gameplay and the mechanics of the class and BLM is the most easy to learn hard to master classes ingame. It took me a couple of hours to play the BLM so good that i could take part in a Extrem run without beeing a burden. I took me a very loong time to be good enough as a SMN to do the same. And here is the funny part i dislike the BLM and like SMN a lot. The BLM has a clear identity and easy to learn basicgameplay.
I see BLM gameplay and can feel it (i dont know how to discribe it better, Sorry), when i see SMN or Astro or even play them myself i cant see nor feel it. Their identity is not there and it takes way more work to get them going in comparsion to the BLM.
Why is the BLM so much better gameplay wise?
Everything i do as a SMN/AST feels like working around some unnecessary and tedious mechanics that only are there to limit and slow the player down. Every Patch they touch SMN/AST i have the feeling both classes are loosing more and more identity. Both classes also loosing gameplay wise every patch. Why is that? Why is every feedback related to AST/SMN considered a attack on SE/Yoshida? I dont talk about those angry/toxcic ppl - just the feedback that some changes are just not good or even bad. -
12-31-2019, 01:46 AMLauront
Yeah, I think I understand what you're getting at now. SMN has, in my view, long suffered from an identity crisis, in that it doesn't play like I'd expect a SMN too, and it's not really a DOT mage, either. The egis have lots of bizarre workings under the hood, which make it far from obvious how you're meant to play it if you don't consult a guide. I do think, however, that they're moving it closer to the right direction by focusing more on the trances and demi Egis. Ultimately, I'd like to see them phase out the "pets" and integrate them into all the core abilities and animations. Another problem they had, IMO, was how restrictive the job lore for SMN was, boxing it into a specific style, but they're making moves now to "liberate" it a bit. Their design logic ultimately constrained the job. I do think it's moving in the right direction and I hope that with fewer resources required for maintaining just 1 dungeon per patch, more will flow in the direction of improving the existing jobs for 6.0. For several jobs in 5.0, the changes they brought in could be traced back to community feedback, although the implementation differed in its specifics... some times for better or worse.
As for BLM, I main it, and enjoy it, but my concern is that although it feels great now, it will eventually grow stale, if they become afraid to find new ways to experiment and add onto its existing style. If you think about it, Despair is just what Flare used to do, and Xeno is just an instant Foul. They fit well into its toolkit but they're very conservative additions. Some people may be okay with it but eventually I'd like to see some new gameplay quirk, like Enochian was in HW.
AST is usually the healer I level first but I was disappointed to see how many core aspects to its identity, like its time spells, were vanished.
Anyway, I suppose this is better suited to another topic so I'll leave it at that. -
12-31-2019, 02:41 AMMOZZYSTAR
Just to clarify, the original post isn't about everything we've asked for over the course of years - like expanding on character customisation. The original post is purely about classes because we didn't ask them to "fix" (i.e. homogenise) our classes and there's been months and pages worth of feedback on the classes since 5.0 was released. Personally, I highly doubt they threw out their past work in relation to the classes (like AST's cards) over night upon 5.0's release and so I wouldn't be surprised if they could just "revert" back to the original with some tweaks like they were just able to revert the butt back to its original state. The butt fix and adding character creation custmisation are totally different because one is just reverting to a previous version (the tights) while the other is totally overhauling an entire system + adding in new elements (character creation).
So, while I appreciate everyone going on about all the things the community (or they personally) has ever wanted yet was ignored for years, some of those things are just too disproportional to the butt fix to compare. (That being said, I also appreciate that they dug themselves in such a hole with the classes that it would be time consuming to revert back to, but it's still mostly reverting back to their previous states.) -
12-31-2019, 02:52 AMBright-FlowerSure they 'could' put the old card system back in place. But while some people prefer the old system some people like the new one more. And swapping the card systems back might also mean needing a balancing pass for AST as well in the new context of SHB and all the healer changes. It affects gameplay and not just aesthetics, and would annoy the people that DO like the new system, or people who have gotten used to the system/started with the new system now having to get used to the old one etc. It's not as simple a thing to do as fixing a display issue with the 2Butt outfit.Quote:
Originally Posted by MOZZYSTAR
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12-31-2019, 03:03 AMHalivelPeople should realise one thing: changing the job and cosmetic item is principally different work.Quote:
Originally Posted by MOZZYSTAR
What affects change in glamour item? Nothing except how this item look.
What affects potential revert of AST to pre-5.0 state (since you speak about "revert button")? 14 jobs in 5.0 state aren't balanced for pre-5.0 state so they either need being reworked or reverted as well to keep the balance. GNB and DNC aren't balanced for pre-5.0 jobs, so they either need being reworked or removed to keep the balance. Every 5.0 battle need to be rebalanced for reverted or reworked jobs too. Simply speaking: with asking for AST revert people ask for a job they normally do for new expansions, not for patches.
When they adressed NIN issues, they changed one job with keeping in mind recent state of others because it was UP even next to range DPS jobs. They could do something like this AST maybe, but is there an actual need for this except the fact there are people that are unhappy about how new skills work in comparison to SB, when there are also people who are completely fine with recent state of the job? And while reworking is possible, reverting? Pretty much not because it leads to too much problems. -
12-31-2019, 04:34 AMBanriikkuHmm okay - here is my view - SE reacts to an Item with no Impact on the game itself but things that matter are getting no respond. Thats my problem here. It takes time to change a class? Sure i know that and respect it but stuff that dont matter gets attention and the important stuff gets nothing ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Halivel
There is my problem not that it takes time and money to change important stuff.
We dont get anything, not even a hint. But hey we got our bubble butt back. -
12-31-2019, 05:41 AMHalivelI mean if they will rework it significantly - it will happen only in next expansion most likely, same as most others huge reworks. If they will explicitly say they will change the class people will bombard them with question "when? when? WHEN? What do you mean later? We want NOW!" even more than they do now. It doesn't mean that feedback about class problems isn't valid - it is, and should be written. But 100th post "when you will say something about this" doesn't rise the chance that they will actually say anything. Write the post with your remarks about what you don't like, make for it new thread or exsiting one, discuss issue with other users and that's it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Banriikku
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12-31-2019, 06:17 AMBanriikku
Hmm so you say : We dont get information because we would ask more questions.
I respect your opinion but i see it differently.
I used the AST thing just as a example. They dont communicate anything. Thats my point.
I want to know where are our journey is heading atleast the rough direction. And a couple of special ppl are very angry/passionate/toxic but the most play this for recration and or ablout cool and dont scream at SE.
I dont ask for details. Take the information we got the last 4 Months. The only thing we got clear is stuff we dont get or wont happen etc. So just infos on "you wont get anymore/ less / prohibit / not planned" and thats weird I can tell you what is not planned but i cant tell you what are the plans. All we have are asumptions. -
12-31-2019, 06:25 AMBright-Flower
If a certain healer or job is underperforming, then that would be one thing. That's something they would address in a patch.
If you want to know what if any major changes will come to a job or role in 6.0, it's too early for them to say anything on that. They likely don't even know themselves at this stage and will work on that stuff internally when we get closer to the next expansion. And anything they tell us about major overhauls 'now' is very likely to change before then.
If say AST was brokenly behind sch or whm to the point of not being viable, that would be something they could talk about and adjust in a patch. The general shift in direction of the healer role (pruning damage abilities) or the revamped ast card system are not things they are likely to just toss into a patch, and if it's something they wouldn't change until a new expansion, it's still too early to talk about where that will go, we're not even halfway into the CURRENT expansion.
As for the cards specifically I think it's pretty clear they're not just going to flip back to the old system mid expansion and so there's not really anything to say on that specific subject. -
12-31-2019, 07:11 AMSaefinnThere's a certain amount they'd be able to do without reworks to hold us over. SMN and NIN got fixes they needed to make them flow better. MNK and BRD got something to hold them over, whilst there's still problems, they reverted a decision BRD's did not like and what they gave MNK's was a sticking plaster. Healers, there's decisions they can reverse on WHM and SCH DPS abilities, as an example and boost the impact of AST's cards to compensate for the DPS boost WHM and SCH will get. Reverting AST's cards will be harder because TP is no longer a thing, but if they had a bigger impact - which reversing SCH's and WHM's DPS move losses would probably accommodate - then they might feel a little better to use. There will still be problems and complaints, but if SE agree this is an issue, these would be things to hold people over until 6.0 without over-complicating anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright-Flower
Regardless of whether 6.0 is so far off and whether we'd see those changes then. There is something that they can do that requires little effort:- "We are aware of the concerns a certain number of healers are having regarding their role in Shadowbringers. We will review the feedback we have received on this topic, please bear with us"
- "We are aware of the concerns a certain number of healers are having regarding their role in Shadowbringers. The changes and direction we feel were justified because of [x, y and z] and we feel they are working as intended and will not be making any changes in this respect."
- "We are aware of the concerns a certain number of healers are having regarding their role in Shadowbringers. We are listening to your concerns and we understand them so we will be looking to make changes based on the feedback we've received. However, these changes won't be immediate and bear with us."
What's frustrating is the lack of communication on the healer complaints. And a number of them still predate ShB (mainly WHM). This is when other roles have gotten better communication out of SE for their complaints (even if the communication isn't positive, at least it's communication). We got a "no" on the cards and beyond that, there's been a considerable lack.
At each of the community Q&A sessions ever since the media tour showcasing ShB job changes there's bit plenty of healer questions relating to the more common concerns and they've been decently upvoted. The healer forums are unusually laden with complaint threads, with people including myself who haven't historically touched the forum prior. And whilst not all Q&A's have the questions been suitable for that QA (I posted in the world building one aware they'll probably not address it there - mine funnily enough was more about communication than my issues), but then the presence of them should at least suggest it's worth providing communication on it. -
09-27-2020, 10:12 AMFF16NecromancerOne is easier to fix than the other...Quote:
Originally Posted by MOZZYSTAR
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09-27-2020, 12:15 PMZol_blade
I think, they should also fix Viera tights as well...