Okay now the botting is getting a little out of hand...

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Originally Posted by NessaWyvern

The first picture kinda looks like some horror film, lol

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The Bots(parody of The Birds).

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Originally Posted by Violet_Galaxy

Hey whatever happened to those two new Mods that we were blindly congratulating a month or two back?? Oh right, they're gone already. Maybe they can relay our concerns to the dev team since English seems non-existent on their end. But that's just me reaching. Carry on.

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Oh, I pointed out that the most important part of the job would be them trying to pretend that bots where not an issue, and the moment they showed any sympathy for the plight of the average person trying to play they'd be fired.

... and I don't see them anywhere, oh well, looks like they failed to be blind enough.

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Originally Posted by Hysterior

They cannot do anything. It would be pointless to try to go one by one.

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Truth is, both things have to be done. Both special task force members that try to prevent the bots from getting on, and clean up after, AND GM's that are allowed to take action. Picture if just one was sitting at the GC chest, where the bots deposit things, and put anybody who was accessing it from "clipped into the wall" into a time out box.

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Originally Posted by deadman1204

do you have any actual proof to this? Or are you just making stuff up?

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As I said, I've seen it done twice now. You'll have to scroll down a bit to find the last two times it happened, but one of them has a video of ul dah being completely unable to be entered on a server for 10 minutes.

Thankfully Faerie isn't this bad, atleast from what I have seen. This is stupid though Square needs to really start buckling down on this instead of some of the other more pointless things they are addressing

Yeah, it's getting beyond ridiculous. On Exodus, they're everywhere. Every major town, every small town. Blatant, in front of everyone. In a span of maybe 30 minutes, I've seen no less than 100 bots run through this same quest NPC in Costa del Sol. It's so bad, they're forming their own guilds full of bots. I'm so glad I have to wait for a queue every time I log in because at any given time, there's 45,000 bots on my server clogging up the population. And the incessant bot advertisements in all major cities is super annoying.

These bot guilds full of bots were just made today.

https://i.imgur.com/nqS9QNy.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/x8qtSKr.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/SmrvnI0.jpg

Then the usual. They run through the quest, jump through the ground, or just flat out vanish. Or in the case of the bots where I witnessed it, they literally instant slide to each quest objective. Literally slide super fast from one point to the next. No running or walking. And then vanish. Only to appear out of thin air at the next quest objective 100 yards away. Then jump through the stone pillar next to me through the ground.

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Originally Posted by stanrir

Thankfully Faerie isn't this bad, atleast from what I have seen. This is stupid though Square needs to really start buckling down on this instead of some of the other more pointless things they are addressing

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Nah, Faerie is getting bad too.

and because you just "named and shamed", you're probably going to get suspended, but the bots will remain wild, pure and forever free.

You know, I commented on this bot nonsense a few weeks back.

Got to admit I was wrong.

Yeah, this is an issue if you can have this many bots running around in hte open doing things. This is almost appearing worse than F2P MMOs.

Make Gil non-tradeable and trigger mandantory STF research on large Gil purchase on the MB. Sacrifices must be made for the good of the community.

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Originally Posted by ElazulHP

Make Gil non-tradeable and trigger mandantory STF research on large Gil purchase on the MB. Sacrifices must be made for the good of the community.

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Would be simpler to trigger an investigation when the gil balance of an account rapidly changes in a very short period of time. As a point, if you jump up 2 million gil in the space of 24 hours, that should trigger a quick look at how that was achieved. Targetting players is one thing, but if you want to stop this, you need to hit the gil banks - The NPCs which hold the gil. Having hte botters pool their gil and then crack that account before they can use it would make it cost innefficient to farm Gil.

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Originally Posted by Melichoir

Would be simpler to trigger an investigation when the gil balance of an account rapidly changes in a very short period of time. As a point, if you jump up 2 million gil in the space of 24 hours, that should trigger a quick look at how that was achieved. Targetting players is one thing, but if you want to stop this, you need to hit the gil banks - The NPCs which hold the gil. Having hte botters pool their gil and then crack that account before they can use it would make it cost innefficient to farm Gil.

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2mil is too little I get that much from selling a single nidhogg scale before. I'm assuming gil buyers purchase in large amount like 5mil+ otherwise what is the point as gil is easy to get.

It is pretty sad to see but as some people have pointed out, you can message a GM and they will tell you they can't do anything about it. So no need to be so secretive if you know you will be banned anyway but still have time to rush to 50 and farm gil for a few days.

Normal MMOs make the GM team responsible for cheaters, so I'm not sure what SE's reasoning was in trying to make a separate, horribly understaffed team that isn't even multi-regional responsible for the entire game's population of cheaters.

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Originally Posted by ICountFrom0

Truth is, both things have to be done. Both special task force members that try to prevent the bots from getting on, and clean up after, AND GM's that are allowed to take action. Picture if just one was sitting at the GC chest, where the bots deposit things, and put anybody who was accessing it from "clipped into the wall" into a time out box.

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CM/GM certainly have tools. I am sure they can ban a user in a couple of clicka.
But from experience, it is absolutely useless against these types of bots.
You could have 100 CMs in a starting area clicking buttons the whole day, it will solve absolutely nothing.
They can probably create new characters faster than a CM can ban and log them.

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Originally Posted by Dirwen

2mil is too little I get that much from selling a single nidhogg scale before. I'm assuming gil buyers purchase in large amount like 5mil+ otherwise what is the point as gil is easy to get.

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Was a throw away number. But thats the thing. SE should be able to see trends among bot sellers on the MB. Like selling a potion for 20 million consistently (another throw away). Not sure how theyd manage it, but the key I think lies in figuring out bot buyer/seller trends and watching account transactions. A player account shouldnt spike in milllions of gil in a very short period of time without some level of reason. They also dont need to hit every person or track everyone. They just need to start hitting enough people that the risk of RMT becomes to much for most players to engage in. This is actually how basic law enforcement works. You cant catch every crime, but the ability to be caught and the frequency of it happening help detur most people from committing said action.

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Originally Posted by Hysterior

CM/GM certainly have tools. I am sure they can ban a user in a couple of clicka.
But from experience, it is absolutely useless against these types of bots.
You could have 100 CMs in a starting area clicking buttons the whole day, it will solve absolutely nothing.
They can probably create new characters faster than a CM can ban and log them.

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Nope. If a GM removes a bot, they get fired. They are not allowed anymore, ONLY the task force.

But yes, you don't do it at the start of the bot run, you don't ban the new level 1 bot, you ban the level 15 bot that's already done the quests, just before they turn in. And they don't ban it to throw the flag in the obvious way, you teleport it to the "bad player" room, and just wait to see what they do. You cost them as much time as possible.

I mean, I've been reporting the same 2 max level Aetherial Reduction bots since Dec. 2018. They were lvl 70 and now level 80 and still gathering away. SE won't ban them.

In short, SE doesn't really care that much. They ban the low level ones but new ones are made faster than SE can ban them. They won't do anything about high or max level bots. I've seen new ones every so often so you can tell people are realizing SE won't ban them even if reported every week.

another wave starting up again. everyone check their Gridana's and i guess report =/

https://i.imgur.com/bjr6ggi.png

It seems they have learned nothing from the 1.0 launch. :(

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Originally Posted by Hysterior

CM/GM certainly have tools. I am sure they can ban a user in a couple of clicka.
But from experience, it is absolutely useless against these types of bots.
You could have 100 CMs in a starting area clicking buttons the whole day, it will solve absolutely nothing.
They can probably create new characters faster than a CM can ban and log them.

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It would solve 80% of the problems.
Just make these bans system and IP wide bans, any account that has logged in the past and in the future on certain PC and IP will get banned and i could guarantee you the population of bots would decrease dramatically.
Once you got a ban like this, you get all your account terminated, and its literally GG, there is no way to avoid stuff like that.

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Originally Posted by Metallium

another wave starting up again. everyone check their Gridana's and i guess report =/

https://i.imgur.com/bjr6ggi.png

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They are appearing in droves here on Hyperion as well.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...34/unknown.png

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

It would solve 80% of the problems.
Just make these bans system and IP wide bans, any account that has logged in the past and in the future on certain PC and IP will get banned and i could guarantee you the population of bots would decrease dramatically.
Once you got a ban like this, you get all your account terminated, and its literally GG, there is no way to avoid stuff like that.

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IP bans don't work for numerous reasons, with the main one being botters have been hiding their IPs for years.

I'm really surprised that there are people who are still unaware of this, especially now that VPN services have gone mainstream to serve individuals worried about privacy.

Didn't get a shot, but the archer swarms are appearing on Cactuar now too.

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

It would solve 80% of the problems.
Just make these bans system and IP wide bans, any account that has logged in the past and in the future on certain PC and IP will get banned and i could guarantee you the population of bots would decrease dramatically.
Once you got a ban like this, you get all your account terminated, and its literally GG, there is no way to avoid stuff like that.

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That works for banning accounts of real users buying from goldsellers. Yes.
But not against the bots themselves. They can change IP on the fly and they continuously create multiple accounts from multiple IP every minute. It does not matter if some accounts fall in SE's net.

SE needs some AI algorithm that identifies patterns early enough in new account's journey and tie it to an automatic mass ban. But even then you would probably still have bots in the starting areas. It is VERY hard to prevent bots if your game is appealing to them and they can make a profit out of it.

Best way is and always will be for no one to buy from gil sellers, they would leave the game. SE needs to be drastic on people buying gils on not go through temporary bans or warnings. Permaban for any gil buyer. 0 tolerance policy is the best policy :)

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Originally Posted by Hysterior

Permaban for any gil buyer. 0 tolerance policy is the best policy :)

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Permaban might be too harsh because I think most gilbuyers are hardcore raiders or RPers as it is those roles that probably need gil the most. I don't care if hardcore raiders get banned but it be a shame for RPers to get done in. I moved to Crystal due to some interest in their communities.

I don't have much use for gil as I don't own a house so money been piling up. My main character is a generic midlander hyur so very few glam options worth buying too.

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Originally Posted by Dirwen

Permaban might be too harsh because I think most gilbuyers are hardcore raiders or RPers as it is those roles that probably need gil the most. I don't care if hardcore raiders get banned but it be a shame for RPers to get done in. I moved to Crystal due to some interest in their communities. I don't have much use for gil as I don't own a house so money been piling up. My main character is a generic midlander hyur so very few glam options worth buying too.

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Disagree. As long as people buy gil, no matter the reason, bots will be here.
And it is probably new players who are more likely to buy gil, thinking that money is relevant in this game.

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Originally Posted by Dirwen

Permaban might be too harsh because I think most gilbuyers are hardcore raiders or RPers as it is those roles that probably need gil the most. I don't care if hardcore raiders get banned but it be a shame for RPers to get done in. I moved to Crystal due to some interest in their communities.

I don't have much use for gil as I don't own a house so money been piling up. My main character is a generic midlander hyur so very few glam options worth buying too.

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Why would that be too harsh? If they cheat and supports a system that ruins the game for legitimate players they deserve the permanent ban.

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Originally Posted by Dirwen

Permaban might be too harsh because I think most gilbuyers are hardcore raiders or RPers as it is those roles that probably need gil the most. I don't care if hardcore raiders get banned but it be a shame for RPers to get done in. I moved to Crystal due to some interest in their communities.

I don't have much use for gil as I don't own a house so money been piling up. My main character is a generic midlander hyur so very few glam options worth buying too.

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I doubt the majority of gil buyers fall into either category. Most of them are probably people who want a hot new glamour, minion or mount but can't be bothered with putting in the effort to farm the materials to make it or earn the gil.

You also don't need gil to RP. Gil buying to try to change your character's status in RP might as well be god-moding. Please don't use the tired "but you need a house to RP" reason. No house is required to RP.

Gil buyers should all be treated the same, regardless of what content they do.

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Originally Posted by Hysterior

That works for banning accounts of real users buying from goldsellers. Yes.
But not against the bots themselves. They can change IP on the fly and they continuously create multiple accounts from multiple IP every minute. It does not matter if some accounts fall in SE's net.

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IP bans don't work at all. Virtually any IP provider is handing out dynamic IP address these days. At best they are ineffective and at worst you hit some unsuspecting other player that happens to got one of the banned addresses.

WE ARE THE BORG. YOU WILL BE ASSEMULATED INTO OUR COLLECTIVE.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

IP bans don't work for numerous reasons, with the main one being botters have been hiding their IPs for years.

I'm really surprised that there are people who are still unaware of this, especially now that VPN services have gone mainstream to serve individuals worried about privacy.

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Thats why there are bans based on the mac address of the motherboard and you combine them with ip address, which allows you how many accounts have logged in on certain pc and ip address.
I asure you there is no escape from ban like that.

If you can really IP ban a PC as opposed to the address it's connecting from, that would be a heck of a lot more effective at controlling bots as they tend to be multi-boxing several hundred accounts on the same PC using modded, stripped-down clients that basically aren't doing anything other then sending the commands to the server needed to play their characters.

I've never seen bots proliferate to the degree they do in XIV in any other MMO, not even F2P ones so SE is clearly doing something really wrong with how they go about banning them.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

If you can really IP ban a PC as opposed to the address it's connecting from, that would be a heck of a lot more effective at controlling bots as they tend to be multi-boxing several hundred accounts on the same PC using modded, stripped-down clients that basically aren't doing anything other then sending the commands to the server needed to play their characters.

I've never seen bots proliferate to the degree they do in XIV in any other MMO, not even F2P ones so SE is clearly doing something really wrong with how they go about banning them.

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They were really bad in FFXI during the era before they started placing high level goblins at fishing spots to kill all the fishing bots(there were 1000s of them..) - this had the unfortunate consequence of preventing actual fishers from using those locations unless they were high enough so that the goblin wouldn't aggro. The pos hackers(akin to the teleporting bots in FFXIV) were mainly seen by the miners/woodworkers(I forgot what they were called..).

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Originally Posted by Rasikko

They were really bad in FFXI during the era before they started placing high level goblins at fishing spots to kill all the fishing bots(there were 1000s of them..) - this had the unfortunate consequence of preventing actual fishers from using those locations unless they were high enough so that the goblin wouldn't aggro. The pos hackers(akin to the teleporting bots in FFXIV) were mainly seen by the miners/woodworkers(I forgot what they were called..).

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Worse was when RMT had Sky on lockdown in early FF11 when it was the main endgame content outside of ground HNMs and a lesser extent Sea. Forcing endgame players to buy Sky triggers from RMT otherwise unable to get Sky gear. It was many months before SE even did anything. SE is very slow and incompetent when dealing with RMT and it is nice knowing that the same is for FF14...

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

Thats why there are bans based on the mac address of the motherboard and you combine them with ip address, which allows you how many accounts have logged in on certain pc and ip address.
I asure you there is no escape from ban like that.

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If it's data being sent through a wire, it can be spoofed. It isn't impossible for the mac address in the packet you're sending out to be different from your actual mac address.

And of course, IPs are infinitely easier to bypass than that. Besides the fact that many ISPs shuffle their IPs from time to time (you can inherit somebody else's IP ban just because you got assigned their old IP), there are also ISPs that let you pay extra per month for a custom static IP. Back before my ISP was changed, I used to simply change my external IP whenever I wanted to log into an IP-banned service. It worked like a charm, albeit I often needed a new email address for a new account.

Only thing can think of maybe have a program when SE does maintenance it installs it on player that being banned so every time they use that console or pc it detect it and not allow them to login on the console or pc there trying to.

I don't understand why they don't have reps in game watching for this kind of thing, seeing it with their own eyes, and then instantly suspending them until it can be proven they're bots, at which point they get suspended. Hell, just pay some of the players to do it.

I understand it could be abused, but what's worse? The off chance that the wrong account gets suspended for a day... or this?

I've seen scenarios where rmt bots from at least 2 different servers advertise the same rmt website using the shout chat in Limsa Lominsa Lower Decks. I agree that the siutations are getting out of hand.

It is a disgrace that this company allows such things. Bots in main cities, flying, walking under the ground. Not only does the feeling of immersion get out of you completely, but it's embarrassing and I don't think new players will see it with good eyes.

Could just go the same route as some other MMOs that essentially allowed it but let you buy/sell currency via them for example in WoW you can buy a token in their store that has a value of gold based on server economy. Post it on the AH and someone will buy it to redeem for their sub. The token costs more than a monthly sub so they technically make more from the rmt

The WoW token still didn't stop the RMTers. They just simply adjust their prices so that buying gold from them is still cheaper.

All it really did was increase Blizzard's profits by giving players a legit and safe method of buying in-game currency.